Pac-12 gave it to Leaf: 17.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg. 16-24 FG
Didn't give it to Rabb: 25.5 ppg, 10.0 rpg. 19-24 FG

Screw em.

R90;842773859 said:

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Pac-12 gave it to Leaf: 17.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg. 16-24 FG
Didn't give it to Rabb: 25.5 ppg, 10.0 rpg. 19-24 FG

Screw em.

---

Come on - lonzo deserves it considering those stats include a game against the #1 team in the country, on the road. And if you include assists in the stats, it's not even close.

But I'm glad Rabb is rounding out into form. Hope the injury is t too much of a setback. He will definitely win a couple of these awards through the year. Hopefully the week we play ucla too.

R90;842773859 said:

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Pac-12 gave it to Leaf: 17.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg. 16-24 FG
Didn't give it to Rabb: 25.5 ppg, 10.0 rpg. 19-24 FG

Screw em.

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Rabb did it against a couple of cupcakes. Leaf led his team to a win at Rupp Arena.

fat_slice;842773862 said:

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Come on - lonzo deserves it considering those stats include a game against the #1 team in the country, on the road. And if you include assists in the stats, it's not even close.

But I'm glad Rabb is rounding out into form. Hope the injury is t too much of a setback. He will definitely win a couple of these awards through the year. Hopefully the week we play ucla too.

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Interesting mistake you made. People are saying that Lonzo had a monster week; but his numbers were substantially worse than Leaf's. They're comparing him to Kidd, especially in saying that he makes everyone around him better - although, at the same time, his offensive (i.e., scoring) stats and skills are substantially ahead of where Kidd was at this beginning stage.

UCLA stats are padded because they're scoring 94 points per game. They aren't playing much defense and neither are their opponents, as both teams run up and down the court. Really looking forward to playing them, slowing them down, and frustrating them out of their comfort zone.

Of course Leaf got the nod because of the big win at Rupp. Rabb was (and is) the better player though.

Ball reminds me of a mix of kidd and penny. Hes scary good

R90;842773911 said:

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UCLA stats are padded because they're scoring 94 points per game. They aren't playing much defense and neither are their opponents, as both teams run up and down the court. Really looking forward to playing them, slowing them down, and frustrating them out of their comfort zone.

Of course Leaf got the nod because of the big win at Rupp. Rabb was (and is) the better player though.

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UCLA is averaging 97 ppg and yeah, they do play at a very fast pace. But simply calling their stats "padded" is a misnomer, as they are one of college basketball's most efficient teams, despite playing at such a high tempo. You're right that they don't play great defense, but two of their opponents, Kentucky and Texas A&M, have been good defensively thus far this season. Kentucky ranks 4th nationally in KenPom's Adjusted Defensive Efficiency and Texas A&M ranks 14th. So, I wouldn't exactly say that everyone they've played doesn't play D. Texas A&M slowed UCLA down, so not everyone has gotten into a running game with them.

You seem to be very excited to play them, but we've got to get healthy and figure out how to beat decent teams first. None of our wins have been particularly impressive and we've had to go to overtime at home to beat a couple of mediocre (or worse) teams.

After UCLA beat #1 Kentucky at Pauley last year, Welsh got Pac-12 POW. He hasn't won it since, and UCLA finished with a 16-18 record last season. People have short memories.

R90;842773984 said:

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After UCLA beat #1 Kentucky at Pauley last year, Welsh got Pac-12 POW. He hasn't won it since, and UCLA finished with a 16-18 record last season. People have short memories.

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No short memories at all. You're trying to make equivalencies based on past events. You can't do that when there are different variables involved. UCLA has added two players that are already their best players.

Last season's UCLA team already had 3 losses by the time it played Kentucky. Those losses were at home to Monmouth, a blowout against Kansas in Maui, and to an eventual 11-20 team in Wake Forest. I'm not saying they are a Final 4 lock, but there's no team in the conference that looks as good as they are right now. UCLA is a better team than last season and it's not close. So is Kentucky, for that matter.

tsubamoto2001;842774012 said:

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No short memories at all. You're trying to make equivalencies based on past events. You can't do that when there are different variables involved. UCLA has added two players that are already their best players.

Last season's UCLA team already had 3 losses by the time it played Kentucky. Those losses were at home to Monmouth, a blowout against Kansas in Maui, and to an eventual 11-20 team in Wake Forest. I'm not saying they are a Final 4 lock, but there's no team in the conference that looks as good as they are right now. UCLA is a better team than last season and it's not close. So is Kentucky, for that matter.

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This is the best UCLA team since the Wooden era. Lonzo is really special and Leaf is as well. The only way they lose in the Pac-12 is if officiating on the road gets them somewhere like Oregon or Arizona. I think that they can win it all this year.

Wow. UCLA has had some pretty good teams since Wooden. This team is very talented, and explosive offensively, but I'm not sure they are good enough defensively to be put in that category, yet, anyway. Maybe the defense improves over time, and they get there. I would agree that right now, they are the favorites to win the Pac 12.

R90;842773859 said:

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Pac-12 gave it to Leaf: 17.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg. 16-24 FG
Didn't give it to Rabb: 25.5 ppg, 10.0 rpg. 19-24 FG

Screw em.

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Not taking anything away from Rabb, but if you watched ucla v uK you saw Lonzo Ball and TJ Leaf both have a great game. It's not always in the numbers.

Plus 97 points against uK at Rupp Arena is impressive.

tthompson993;842774041 said:

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This is the best UCLA team since the Wooden era. Lonzo is really special and Leaf is as well. The only way they lose in the Pac-12 is if officiating on the road gets them somewhere like Oregon or Arizona. I think that they can win it all this year.

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Their offense is special. They can score from the perimeter, inside, and mid-range. Very few teams can do it at each level at high proficiency. Kentucky will destroy teams with their pressure and UCLA was able to drop 97 on 53% and this was despite Ball having a tough 1st Half. They'll need to improve defensively to have a shot at being better than the 1995 team or Howland's team that had Westbrook and Love.

tthompson993;842774041 said:

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This is the best UCLA team since the Wooden era. Lonzo is really special and Leaf is as well. The only way they lose in the Pac-12 is if officiating on the road gets them somewhere like Oregon or Arizona. I think that they can win it all this year.

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Easy. The 1995 team with Ed O'Bannon won the National Title, and the 2008 team with Kevin Love, Russell Westbrook and Darren Collison went to the Final Four.

R90;842773859 said:

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Pac-12 gave it to Leaf: 17.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg. 16-24 FG
Didn't give it to Rabb: 25.5 ppg, 10.0 rpg. 19-24 FG

Screw em.

---

Not being a Homer or anything...

Ucla has 3 very good post players who have different skills + a 7 foot junior rotation player + a couple talented veteran guards + a Kidd-like PG

I'd say they are the best ucla OFFENSIVE team I remember
Don't know about their defense but they have the players to be a very good defense

tim94501;842773950 said:

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Ball reminds me of a mix of kidd and penny. Hes scary good

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This was the first time I've seen Ball play, but he reminded me of Shaun Livingston (pre injury). Still very good company.

R90;842773859 said:

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Pac-12 gave it to Leaf: 17.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg. 16-24 FG
Didn't give it to Rabb: 25.5 ppg, 10.0 rpg. 19-24 FG

Screw em.

---

Leaf did it against the #1 team in the country on the road in a nationally televised game. That matters. 17 points, 13 rebounds and five assists at Rupp? No brainer.

BigDaddy;842774290 said:

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Leaf did it against the #1 team in the country on the road in a nationally televised game. That matters. 17 points, 13 rebounds and five assists at Rupp? No brainer.

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He shoots threes, but he also took it baseline and dunked it in traffic. Impressive

tthompson993;842774041 said:

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This is the best UCLA team since the Wooden era.

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They've won a championship and gone to Final Fours in that time, so that's a bit of a leap at this point IMO. They are probably the best team in the conference this year though.

wasn't cal in the final hunt in for tj? how did we missed on him?

LOUMFSG2;842774119 said:

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Wow. UCLA has had some pretty good teams since Wooden. This team is very talented, and explosive offensively, but I'm not sure they are good enough defensively to be put in that category, yet, anyway. Maybe the defense improves over time, and they get there. I would agree that right now, they are the favorites to win the Pac 12.

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Ucla should definitely be considered the conference favorite but both Oregon and Arizona can challenge. Allonzo Trier is the key for Arizona and assuming he returns they have a lot of talent to work with.

GoCalBears;842774716 said:

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wasn't cal in the final hunt in for tj? how did we missed on him?

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Leaf de-committed from Arizona. He was recruited by big time programs from across the country, including Kansas. He played for the Compton Magic, and they're a feeder to UCLA.

GoCalBears;842774716 said:

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wasn't cal in the final hunt in for tj? how did we missed on him?

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I have no idea how far Leaf went with Cal, but I know that the Monster Blog went all the way to the end with him.
Makes sense to not pull out of the runnings early, but doing so may not be indicative of any proximity to each other, as we've seen that with many recruits.
In other words, just because they are listed on that page, don't mean shite.

The thing about college basketball is that every team in the country needs to get a lot better going into March. UCLA has flashed early and there offensive talent is undeniable. Once they get into conference play and teams understand tendencies better, scouting improves and the officiating changes, things will change. The problem they have is Alford. Can he get another gear out of these guys or even two more gears? His history says that may not happen. I guarantee you Oregon has two gears left in them. Defense is a BIG question mark. I don't see the natural defensive talent. Leaf and Ball are going to be lost on team defense and Alford and Welch are below average defenders for their position. What they did in Rupp is impressive and tells me they have the clear potential to win the Pac 12 and get to the Final 4. To realize the potential, Alford has a lot to prove and this team has to get better on defense.

Hopefully, we did not see the healthy Rabb in this game.

Particularly defensively, where he did not stop interior scoring by a much shorter player and could not avoid fouling out. Also, offensively he was hardly special.

Am wondering if he simply cannot defend the deep post, where he will find himself occasionally, even with King and Kam healthy.

Certainly he remains a talent, but will NBA scouts see him as a high lottery pick at the end of this season?

I write this uneasily, as I have high regard for Ivan.

south bender;842776776 said:

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Hopefully, we did not see the healthy Rabb in this game.

Particularly defensively, where he did not stop interior scoring by a much shorter player and could not avoid fouling out. Also, offensively he was hardly special.

Am wondering if he simply cannot defend the deep post, where he will find himself occasionally, even with King and Kam healthy.

Certainly he remains a talent, but will NBA scouts see him as a high lottery pick at the end of this season?

I write this uneasily, as I have high regard for Ivan.

---

It was a rough game for Ivan for sure, but he had some some odd foul trouble. I think the first foul in the first minute had him not wanting to pick up another one, and then the mercy fouls came for USD in the second half.

Civil Bear;842776827 said:

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It was a rough game for Ivan for sure, but he had some some odd foul trouble. I think the first foul in the first minute had him not wanting to pick up another one, and then the mercy fouls came for USD in the second half.

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There were numerous times that you can see Ivan's frustration from the rest of the team. It being able to get him the ball. Not sure what people think - is it that the team lacks the skills to drop it down to him or is ivan not able to get himself open despite asking for the ball? Either way I'm very suspect of Cuonzo's ability to teach offense.

Ucla - looks legit. They are dominating teams and any perceived weakness of alford's is negated by the talent gap they have with other teams.

south bender;842776776 said:

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Hopefully, we did not see the healthy Rabb in this game.

Particularly defensively, where he did not stop interior scoring by a much shorter player and could not avoid fouling out. Also, offensively he was hardly special.

Am wondering if he simply cannot defend the deep post, where he will find himself occasionally, even with King and Kam healthy.

Certainly he remains a talent, but will NBA scouts see him as a high lottery pick at the end of this season?

I write this uneasily, as I have high regard for Ivan.

---

The Pac12 studios were discussing this before the game, Kevin O'Neil saying "maybe he got word he wasn't truly going to be in the lottery and that's why he came back", and I think a whole slew of people are now coming to the same conclusion you make (or question).
But I'm not going to go on a run at convincing anyone that is the case. Just say, yes, good question.

He probably hurt himself from a draft standpoint by not coming out, as he surely needs more time to grow. Brown was even more of a raw recruit, but had a NBA developed body. Rabb was an example of a player in HS, who can beat up on 6'5" post players, and slow defenders. You now see how he struggles getting space at this level, and has not developed his shot to the point he can step out. I have not seen much growth this year, except physically, and while I don't think Coach Martin is helping his profile, he would get eaten up in the NBA at this point.

south bender;842776776 said:

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Hopefully, we did not see the healthy Rabb in this game.

Particularly defensively, where he did not stop interior scoring by a much shorter player and could not avoid fouling out. Also, offensively he was hardly special.

Am wondering if he simply cannot defend the deep post, where he will find himself occasionally, even with King and Kam healthy.

Certainly he remains a talent, but will NBA scouts see him as a high lottery pick at the end of this season?

I write this uneasily, as I have high regard for Ivan.

---

Bisonbob;842776973 said:

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He probably hurt himself from a draft standpoint by not coming out, as he surely needs more time to grow. Brown was even more of a raw recruit, but had a NBA developed body. Rabb was an example of a player in HS, who can beat up on 6'5" post players, and slow defenders. You now see how he struggles getting space at this level, and has not developed his shot to the point he can step out. I have not seen much growth this year, except physically, and while I don't think Coach Martin is helping his profile, he would get eaten up in the NBA at this point.

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^^Mostly this^^ It is clear that Rabb needs to get stronger and more physical to succeed at the next level, and he would likely be in the D-League had he stayed in the draft. But when evaluating his growth this year let's not forget that he is probably still feeling the affects from his bout with mono, and that he hasn't been injury free for maybe a game or two. Mote his two healthiest games yielded career days.

There is still plenty of time for him to become a lottery pick. He has the skills, the footwork and the incredible hands. The question is if he will still have the patience to skip the draft again next year if his body isn't yet ready.

Civil Bear;842777014 said:

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^^Mostly this^^ It is clear that Rabb needs to get stronger and more physical to succeed at the next level, and he would likely be in the D-League had he stayed in the draft. But when evaluating his growth this year let's not forget that he is probably still feeling the affects from his bout with mono, and that he hasn't been injury free for maybe a game or two. Mote his two healthiest games yielded career days.

There is still plenty of time for him to become a lottery pick. He has the skills, the footwork and the incredible hands. The question is if he will still have the patience to skip the draft again next year if his body isn't yet ready.

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I would think he'll need to expand his range, a la Bosch to whom he has been compared. If he can make the 3--and Cuonzo has said he can--and if he develops the ability to take his man, facing up, off the dribble, he can be a great player, even in the NBA (I hope...).

Could we see Rabb, Lee, Rooks and Okoroh as our rotating PF-C front line next year?
Getting that Cal experience, education, degree.

And/or, it may sound crazy but putting Rabb out on the 3 could be a good developmental thing for next level. Step out, face up J. A la Bosh, as previously said.

PG Moore
SG Baker
SF Rabb
PF Lee
C Rooks.

In this case, I hope Baker can dribble well.

CalHoopFan;842775019 said:

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The thing about college basketball is that every team in the country needs to get a lot better going into March. UCLA has flashed early and there offensive talent is undeniable. Once they get into conference play and teams understand tendencies better, scouting improves and the officiating changes, things will change. The problem they have is Alford. Can he get another gear out of these guys or even two more gears? His history says that may not happen. I guarantee you Oregon has two gears left in them. Defense is a BIG question mark. I don't see the natural defensive talent. Leaf and Ball are going to be lost on team defense and Alford and Welch are below average defenders for their position. What they did in Rupp is impressive and tells me they have the clear potential to win the Pac 12 and get to the Final 4. To realize the potential, Alford has a lot to prove and this team has to get better on defense.

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Sure, defense will not be their strength but they only need to play average D with their firepower. Plus the one frosh you didn't mention, Anigbogu is a big time rim protector and shot blocker.

SFBearz;842777293 said:

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Sure, defense will not be their strength but they only need to play average D with their firepower. Plus the one frosh you didn't mention, Anigbogu is a big time rim protector and shot blocker.

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Oh, don't be so sure.
I'll put $5 down that Cole will dunk over Anigbogu!