It's probably been posted many times from different angles, but FT shooting continues to be our most glaring shortcoming. They say that defense (which we have) wins championships, but we're not going to go very far until our percentage from the stripe improves. I wonder how/if the coaching staff can change up the team's approach to FT shooting, because not many of our players are comfortable doing it.

It would have been better without Rabb's 0-6 tonight. But he definitely deserves a pass. I've never seen a guy try to play with one arm. Warrior effort from Ivan tonight.

But yeah, it needs to improve. Just not a lot of pure shooters.

Yeah, of course Rabb's game today was not representative of his skills, although he did finish off with some killer D.

MoragaBear;842774631 said:

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It was horrendous today (especially down the stretch) but even with that 45% averaged in, their 67.5% for the season isn't terrible. Definitely room for improvement, though.

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MB, please. Forget the dissecting the numbers. Cal's FT shooting is horrendous. By any outside evaluator but you. It will keep this team from reaching any kind of potential unless it is improved. If it is, then things can be OK, but right now, IT is horrendous.

I don't get how singer n Mullins don't shoot better. It's just weird that half the guys in intramurals hit free throws at a better % than they do.

MilleniaBear;842774724 said:

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I don't get how singer n Mullins don't shoot better. It's just weird that half the guys in intramurals hit free throws at a better % than they do.

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In hindsight, I wonder about Monty, whose Stanford teams used to run away from teams at the free throw line, and whose Cal teams, although not as bad as Cuonzo's have been at free throw shooting, were pretty bad at that - or is it just since Singer arrived. I wonder how Cuonzo's Tennessee teams were at that. I say the foregoing, although I think glaringly true, with a heavy dose of irony, because:

(a) Cuonzo's defense appears to be f***ing amazing;

(b) Singer's game tonight looked to me like it had taken a MAJOR step up, if not in numbers ('tho' those were pretty good, if not in points, then in rebounds, and in generally heady play), then in what looked to me like a pretty good imitation of confidence;

(c) The spirit exhibited by Ivan in playing with pain was just amazing - I just hope he's not making his hand worse, or for longer, by doing it;

(d) Charlie is a f***ing man;

(e) Mullins, of all the guys, was terrifically CLUTCH (in fact a lot of these guys seem ready to step up when duty calls, and many have, from time to time);

(f) to see Bird out there, showing all that potential (without physical reservation - although I'm wondering if he's refraining from exercising his extraordinary hops that could be so meaningful on the boards - refraining out of caution for the effect of the heavy banging there);

(g) It is now established that Okoroh is going to be a force to be reckoned with on defense, not matter the opponent; and, although he is no longer a liability on offense, it seems also clear that it is, of all things, coming along, and the further things he needs to do there (getting better at catching passes, continuing to learn offense from Ivan - of which there is so much) are things that he really will be able to do -- How fast? Who knows? But not necessarily a limit (I mean, he has a good athletic foundation from playing soccer, which is clearly beginning to manifest itself in the diminishing of his clumse) -- Is it a good guess that his defensive improvement may have something to do with regularly practicing against Lee?

That's all for today, except for a glimmer of hope about Don Coleman, whose light appears to have gone on in the Alcorn State game about developing the path to control the energy and athleticism and basketball ability which seems to have been, before Alcorn, mostly bottled up by being so out of control [I'm a fan of the truths that can be revealed by oxymorons, like Koans, I guess].

Why the "of all guys," regarding Mullins' being terrifically clutch?

From day one at Cal, Mullins has shown that he is a competitor every minute on the court.

Also, not here, but somewhere else Mullins' free throw shooting has been disparaged. At the end of the season, with good health, I expect he'll be in the top 3 or 4 on our team in free throw % (with Moore, Bird, Rabb, maybe Moute a Bidias).

south bender;842774741 said:

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Why the "of all guys," regarding Mullins' being terrifically clutch?

From day one at Cal, Mullins has shown that he is a competitor every minute on the court.

Also, not here, but somewhere else Mullins' free throw shooting has been disparaged. At the end of the season, with good health, I expect he'll be in the top 3 or 4 on our team in free throw % (with Moore, Bird, Rabb, maybe Moute a Bidias).

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I'm inclined to think that that came out because it was first day back after an emotionally draining death in the family for which he traveled, in essence, half way around the world - keeping in mind maybe also what somebody on this board recently pointed out was our team's bad luck with guys' first day back from injury -- With all the come-backs, and clutch plays, and real guts this team is showing, I'm beginning to believe that those previous monsters that have cursed our talented teams recently are in process of being vanquished

regarding Ivan's free throw shooting tonight. it was obvious his left hand was bothering him, but he shoots right handed.

technically, not being able to use his left hand might change his routine, but a player should be able to shoot fine one handed from the free throw line.

I wonder if that's why Ivan's shooting isn't as strong as his overall game. He shoots a little two handed

HoopDreams;842774755 said:

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regarding Ivan's free throw shooting tonight. it was obvious his left hand was bothering him, but he shoots right handed.

technically, not being able to use his left hand might change his routine, but a player should be able to shoot fine one handed from the free throw line.

I wonder if that's why Ivan's shooting isn't as strong as his overall game. He shoots a little two handed

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Easier said than done.

When I played free throws were easy for me, but I never had to shoot one handed, with no support from my support hand. I doubt that I would have been as accurate, without a significant transition period where I would have had substantial practice.

Hence, I have full sympathy with Ivan's struggles from the line.

mikecohen;842774754 said:

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I'm inclined to think that that came out because it was first day back after an emotionally draining death in the family for which he traveled, in essence, half way around the world - keeping in mind maybe also what somebody on this board recently pointed out was our team's bad luck with guys' first day back from injury -- With all the come-backs, and clutch plays, and real guts this team is showing, I'm beginning to believe that those previous monsters that have cursed our talented teams recently are in process of being vanquished

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Got it.

The "monsters" that you cite were largely ball hoggings. Everyone knows the culprits...

mikecohen;842774737 said:

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In hindsight, I wonder about Monty, whose Stanford teams used to run away from teams at the free throw line, and whose Cal teams, although not as bad as Cuonzo's have been at free throw shooting, were pretty bad at that - or is it just since Singer arrived. I wonder how Cuonzo's Tennessee teams were at that...

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I've seen it mentioned a few times that free throw shooting at Cal wasn't good under Monty, but that is not true. Here are the team percentages during Monty's six seasons at Cal.

[FONT=Courier New]PAC-10/12 FT%, 2008/09 - 2013/14
TEAM____FTM_____FTA_____PER%
UTAH___1,305___1,788___73.0%
CAL____2,990___4,131___72.4%
UO_____3,166___4,392___72.1%
UA_____3,438___4,771___72.1%
WSU____2,757___3,915___70.4%
COL____1,710___2,445___69.9%
UCLA___2,917___4,174___69.9%
UW_____3,252___4,691___69.3%
STAN___2,958___4,288___69.0%
ASU____2,646___3,863___68.5%
OSU____3,007___4,449___67.6%
USC____2,465___3,730___66.1%
[/FONT]
The Bear's FT percentage in Monty's last season was 68.6%, which was only good for ninth in the league, and maybe that is what people remember. But overall, his teams lead the Pac-10/12 twice, and FT shooting was a strength, not a weakness, under Monty.

it's a common coaching technique. I start warmups by shooting one handed every time. if you see someone who struggles with FTs, try with them sometime. Or do it yourself. You will be amazed to discover that they or you use your guide hand too much, and it results in your entire shooting form being off, or you starting your shot too low. If you place the ball in one hand, it has to be aligned and up, otherwise the ball will fall out of your hand

south bender;842774799 said:

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Easier said than done.

When I played free throws were easy for me, but I never had to shoot one handed, with no support from my support hand. I doubt that I would have been as accurate, without a significant transition period where I would have had substantial practice.

Hence, I have full sympathy with Ivan's struggles from the line.

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HoopDreams;842774850 said:

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it's a common coaching technique. I start warmups by shooting one handed every time. if you see someone who struggles with FTs, try with them sometime. Or do it yourself. You will be amazed to discover that they or you use your guide hand too much, and it results in your entire shooting form being off, or you starting your shot too low. If you place the ball in one hand, it has to be aligned and up, otherwise the ball will fall out of your hand

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Once again I have learned from
you!

If he shoots a little two-handed (I agree) a hurt left hand probably has more impact than it should.

HoopDreams;842774755 said:

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regarding Ivan's free throw shooting tonight. it was obvious his left hand was bothering him, but he shoots right handed.

technically, not being able to use his left hand might change his routine, but a player should be able to shoot fine one handed from the free throw line.

I wonder if that's why Ivan's shooting isn't as strong as his overall game. He shoots a little two handed

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Monty recruited shooters. He also had guys like Randall, Theo Robertson and Patrick Christopher when he started. Having a PG who is a great FT shooter is huge, especially in late game situations. I think Moore will do that for us.

LOUMFSG2;842774847 said:

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I've seen it mentioned a few times that free throw shooting at Cal wasn't good under Monty, but that is not true. Here are the team percentages during Monty's six seasons at Cal.

[FONT=Courier New]PAC-10/12 FT%, 2008/09 - 2013/14
TEAM____FTM_____FTA_____PER%
UTAH___1,305___1,788___73.0%
CAL____2,990___4,131___72.4%
UO_____3,166___4,392___72.1%
UA_____3,438___4,771___72.1%
WSU____2,757___3,915___70.4%
COL____1,710___2,445___69.9%
UCLA___2,917___4,174___69.9%
UW_____3,252___4,691___69.3%
STAN___2,958___4,288___69.0%
ASU____2,646___3,863___68.5%
OSU____3,007___4,449___67.6%
USC____2,465___3,730___66.1%
[/FONT]
The Bear's FT percentage in Monty's last season was 68.6%, which was only good for ninth in the league, and maybe that is what people remember. But overall, his teams lead the Pac-10/12 twice, and FT shooting was a strength, not a weakness, under Monty.

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MoragaBear;842774764 said:

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It was a horrible ft shooting game but before tonight, they were at 71%, which is just fine.

No need to get apoplectic or point homer fingers at me.

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Please stop citing statistics. They are just numbers and stuff. We are more interested in the "I test," I mean "eye test." The average NCAA D1 team shoots around 68%. Interestingly this percentage has not changed over many decades. Also, as of 2009 anyway, "there is little correlation between free-throw percentages and winning percentages." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/sports/basketball/04freethrow.html

MSaviolives;842774876 said:

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Please stop citing statistics. They are just numbers and stuff. We are more interested in the "I test," I mean "eye test." The average NCAA D1 team shoots around 68%. Interestingly this percentage has not changed over many decades. Also, as of 2009 anyway, "there is little correlation between free-throw percentages and winning percentages." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/sports/basketball/04freethrow.html

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I think the angst this year (and last year) around FT shooting has to do with the timing of the misses during close games. Cal has been in a lot of close matchups this year against unremarkable teams and missed their FTs when the game is on the line. When Cal is waaay ahead or way behind, a missed FT feels about 20% as painful as when the game is close. As a result - the FT% feels bad with this team.

Why is that? It has less to do with the players FT% and more to do with the flow of the game and its impact on our perceptions.

:gobears:

Also, the pain from the L hand can be distracting.

Not to make excuses, but there must have been something in the venue since Princeton (bunch of white Ivy League types) also had a poor shooting night from the line (OK, not as poor as ours, but still...), and both teams were abysmal from the field until fairly late in the game. Rafftery and Johnson both commented on the backdrop and the lighting. And, even Seton Hall struggled at the line in the 2nd game.

There's not much a college coach can do regarding FT shooting. Monty's stock answer about how to improve shooting: "recruit better shooters."

Charlie is an 85+% FT shooter. Grant has been in the same range his career. Ivan is usually around 70%, which is pretty good for a big. Jabari has generally been plus-80%. Unfortunately, Sam can't shoot free throws; Stephen can't shoot anything, and King is always going to be mediocre (although if he can stay above 60%, that's a plus).

UrsaMajor;842774930 said:

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Also, the pain from the L hand can be distracting.

Not to make excuses, but there must have been something in the venue since Princeton (bunch of white Ivy League types) also had a poor shooting night from the line (OK, not as poor as ours, but still...), and both teams were abysmal from the field until fairly late in the game. Rafftery and Johnson both commented on the backdrop and the lighting. And, even Seton Hall struggled at the line in the 2nd game.

There's not much a college coach can do regarding FT shooting. Monty's stock answer about how to improve shooting: "recruit better shooters."

Charlie is an 85+% FT shooter. Grant has been in the same range his career. Ivan is usually around 70%, which is pretty good for a big. Jabari has generally been plus-80%. Unfortunately, Sam can't shoot free throws; Stephen can't shoot anything, and King is always going to be mediocre (although if he can stay above 60%, that's a plus).

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Just curious: Given King's MAJOR improvement in so many areas, not the least: Free Throw Shooting: What makes you say that his free throw shooting is always going to be mediocre?

Well, we're not Seton Hall bad when it comes to free throws, at least.

EDIT:
Yeah, maybe we are as bad and my reply tempted fate. We just missed the front end of a big 1 and 1 along with 4 other FTs. Crud.

MoragaBear;842774765 said:

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It was a horrible ft shooting game but before tonight, they were at 71%, which is just fine. Ivan and Charlie were two of the biggest culprits tonight on the line and Charlie's normally money and Ivan solid.

No need to get apoplectic or point homer fingers at me.

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And again tonight....I know this board is your baby, but others know a bit about the game. If this keeps up, not good looking forward, whatever your stats tell you. You must sink free throws at critical times, not to fill stat books.

Singer misses front end of one and one, Moute misses two, Rabb misses two. Doesn't work even though we are still in this game with a couple left. Bird is phenomenal tonight. Rabb definitely not showing AA, injured or not. Delgado and Carrington look better.

Edit(at games end): And we lose by three???? Go figure.

MoragaBear;842775290 said:

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It's two bad games ft shooting games in a row. If it continues to happen, they'll become a poor free throw shooting team. But no matter how many tantrums you pull or homer accusations you deliver, it does not change my point yesterday that 71% ft shooting coming into the game was not only not terrible, it wasn't even bad. It was fine.

Criticize their poor ft shooting this tournament all you want but it doesn't change their body of work leading up to then, which is what I was commenting on.

And what's your point re. Rabb not showing AA talent tonight, hand or not? He's an ambidextrous player. An injured hand is a big liability. To try and judge him on his performance while injured is more than a little unfair.

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+1. If you have watched games this year (every one for me) you know that Rabb's game was WAY off tonight. Maybe the hand. Maybe the backdrop. Maybe both. Get healthy and we will be more than fine since Bird is going to give us a great third weapon and has a very different game than Moore or Rabb.

OdontoBear66 - I agree. FT shooting has been bad all three years under Cuonzo. Can't anyone on this staff teach these guys how to shoot FTs?

MoragaBear;842775290 said:

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It's two bad games ft shooting games in a row. If it continues to happen, they'll become a poor free throw shooting team. But no matter how many tantrums you pull or homer accusations you deliver, it does not change my point yesterday that 71% ft shooting coming into the game was not only not terrible, it wasn't even bad. It was fine.

Criticize their poor ft shooting this tournament all you want but it doesn't change their body of work leading up to then, which is what I was commenting on.

And what's your point re. Rabb not showing AA talent tonight, hand or not? He's an ambidextrous player. An injured hand is a big liability. To try and judge him on his performance while injured is more than a little unfair.

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As a journalist you tell things as they are, not as you wish them to be. Rabb is an excellent player. He was not tonight, nor was he last night. That is OK. But it is what it is. My thrust remains that FT shooting has not been good for some time at Cal, and this is a continuation. I, myself, having played the game may even make the excuse of the court (weird to say the least) and the rims (clanging like bells) as well as the lighting which was commented on. But regardless, as we all hope this team ups its progress, the FT shooting must improve. If not, peril. Take it as personally as you wish MB, but replay the tape and flinch.

MoragaBear;842775374 said:

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I was yelling at the tv both games with all the ft misses so I don't need to rewatch anything. It still doesn't mean they were shooting ft's poorly prior to this tourney, as you and 6371 assert. 71% is simply not horrible, as you're asserting.

Coming into this weekend, Cal was upper middle of the NCAA's in ft%. Not great, but certainly not horrible. Through the first 7 games, Moore was at 85%, RMB at 85%, Mullins at 72%, Rabb at 70%. The team was at 71%. Jabari hasn't missed from the line yet this season.

They shot horrendously from the line this tourney. It needlessly made the Princeton game closer than it should've been and cost them today's game. Hopefully it won't carry over to the rest of the season. But to continue to assert something that's just plain inaccurate because you ignore the stats and trust your feelings just doesn't make sense.

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It is much simpler than all that math. The team went flat from the floor for over 5 minutes. At the same time the front end of a one and one by Singer, two by Rabb and two by Roger were missed. Game over. No! Momentum lost? Definitely. Near comeback but not enough at the end which would have been a lot closer, or even a different result but for free throws at a critical time. Thrust and Momentum are not always all about stats. Just saying. The team needs to get up to 70%+ and do so with some degree of consistency through the game if it is to be successful. Great game by Bird by the way. Loved his touch more than anything.

Sam at the line:

2013/4: .474

2014/5: .486

2015/6: .613

2016/7: .455

Go figure... So far this year his field goal percentage is higher than his free throw percentage.

he finishes well at the rim, and has a good tear drop/floater

by the way, a tear drop requires the player to shoot one handed, and you won't be successful shooting it unless your arm is aligned in a similar way as a free throw shot (arm 90 degrees from the floor and ball held high. although you can grip the ball with one hand you still need to have this form or the ball would fall off your hand). You also need to have a high arc on your tear drop, usually to shoot over the hand of the post defender. All good things for shooting FTs too.

south bender;842775977 said:

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Sam at the line:

2013/4: .474

2014/5: .486

2015/6: .613

2016/7: .455

Go figure... So far this year his field goal percentage is higher than his free throw percentage.

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FT's: IR is hitting 56%, ChasM is hitting 77%, RMaB 79%, GM 77%, Bird 100% so far, KR 63% and KO 56%. The brick layers are SS (46%), SD (38%) and DC (47%) who can't find the barn let alone hit the broad side of it.

We're schooled that making 66% FT is acceptable and more is good.

The team is hitting 63% of its FT's (147/232). [U]Pure gold[/U], my friends, is being left on the table.

If you're an optimist that's good. It can improve. But if you're a pessimist...it hurts.

KO at 56% is also a brick layer. Let's call a horse a horse. That percentage is no good. And I guess IR is right there with him, though I'll give him a pass after his stats were pulled down following the injured hand - not sure what was up with that game.

FT's are easy enough to me. I don't understand not making them. It perplexes.
Sam should be sooooo much better at them. Senior guard. Perplexing.

MoragaBear;842775290 said:

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It's two bad games ft shooting games in a row. If it continues to happen, they'll become a poor free throw shooting team. But no matter how many tantrums you pull or homer accusations you deliver, it does not change my point yesterday that 71% ft shooting coming into the game was not only not terrible, it wasn't even bad. It was fine.

Criticize their poor ft shooting this tournament all you want but it doesn't change their body of work leading up to then, which is what I was commenting on.

And what's your point re. Rabb not showing AA talent tonight, hand or not? He's an ambidextrous player. An injured hand is a big liability. To try and judge him on his performance while injured is more than a little unfair.

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71%?
That's good! I'll take it.