Ianbearnson wrote the following on the game thread, but I thought it deserves its own thread.

[FONT=Arial][INDENT]"Just watched on DVR. TV, and the Refs, didn't have/see the same angle shown on the video board, which clearly showed the ball last touch a WSU guy. They went over and asked Roxy & Montgomery if they had a different shot, Mike said no.

So the question is, if they can go over and ask the TV crew for a different shot, why couldn't they ask the video board folks the same thing, because obviously the video board did have a different/better angle?"[/INDENT]
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Lots of questions:

1) Does the video board system really have different cameras than the TV broadcast? WTF?!

2) Repeating Ianbernson's question: if (the refs) can go over and ask the TV crew for a different shot, why couldn't they ask the video board folks the same thing, because obviously the video board did have a different/better angle?

3) On the ensuing possession for WSU, was the charge call assessed against Flynn with a few seconds to go legitimate? I couldn't tell from my seat in the arena, and I figured it could very well be a makeup call.

When the refs took forever to make the out-of-bounds call, I was already guessing it was going against Cal. I figured they were just looking for an excuse not to overturn their prior real-time incorrect call.

I think they were wavering on the ball out of bounds call. It appeared to me that the ball may have subtly changed direction ever so slightly, but it was not clear enough to overturn. Usually the REFs go over the the announcers to explain the call for the benefit of the TV audience. It sounded like from Monty that they may have asked if they had any different feeds, which may be common in some arenas.

I don't think the charge call was a make up call. First, Sam was outside the line. Second, he was in position in time. Third, although the contact was not as hard and blatantly obvious as some it was easy in my book to make.

Well, sorry, but Roxie and Mike were F'ing idiots then. They should have said, "No, we don't have a different view, but the video screen above us did, and you should go try and look at that!"
Both are former Cal men. I am very forlorn.

Tom. Sometimes what you post doesn't jive with reality. Did you ever consider that they can't use unofficial video? The big screen (in house) video probably isn't official and can't be used. Furthermore, they are limited to video from the telecast which is why they asked Rox and Mike. I spoke with Roxy postgame and he felt like everyone in Haas that the call was blown. Interestingly, I sat with a friend who is an official and he predicted the final call stating that it was inconclusive - based on the video board replay! He posts here so he can weigh in if he chooses. Calling Roxy and Monty idiots is just unbelievable..

Hey, man.
I'm a fan.
I offer opinion.

As a fan, I'd like to see Mike and Roxie tell the official to look up above them.
And if Roxie believed it should be awarded to Cal (like everyone in the house, as you said) then why not offer the suggestion to the Ref who asked?
Why not let Roxie answer that question. Hey Roxie - did you think to tell the official to look up? Why not?
And, no, I do not ACTUALLY think either of them is an idiot. But, it's like, if you were at a bar (and 21) and some good looking girl came up and started chatting with you and you turned to her and told her, "Quiet, I'm watching the game", then I would also call you an idiot - though you may not actually be one. It's an expression, PB. I'm sorry if you or Roxie or Mike took it literally.

And, I'd ask your seat-mate official friend what was inconclusive about the video screen replay.

Finally, yes, it occurred to me that they were barred from seeing that view. But, again, I'm a fan. We can dream.

Anyways, let me ask you - you saw the same in-house replay as me. Did you seriously think that was inconclusive and that WSU could get the ball?

What was TV showing? It took forever, they must have been running replays. Did they express an opinion? It seemed clear on the video board, but I only saw it once and only from one angle.

Go!Bears;842794040 said:

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What was TV showing? It took forever, they must have been running replays. Did they express an opinion? It seemed clear on the video board, but I only saw it once and only from one angle.

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TV was evidently showing commercials.

Go!Bears;842794040 said:

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What was TV showing? It took forever, they must have been running replays. Did they express an opinion? It seemed clear on the video board, but I only saw it once and only from one angle.

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It was inconclusive from the TV angles.

Mullins blocked the view of the WSU player's hip/knee from the TV angle.

Go!Bears;842794040 said:

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What was TV showing? It took forever, they must have been running replays. Did they express an opinion? It seemed clear on the video board, but I only saw it once and only from one angle.

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At the risk of raising ire from Shocky for not attending the game...

Mike and Roxy basically said the refs should probably stick with the call on the floor because the video replays from the Pac-12 broadcast were inconclusive. I would agree based on what they showed, which was likely different than the video board.

concordtom;842794036 said:

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Hey, man.
I'm a fan.
I offer opinion.

As a fan, I'd like to see Mike and Roxie tell the official to look up above them.
And if Roxie believed it should be awarded to Cal (like everyone in the house, as you said) then why not offer the suggestion to the Ref who asked?
Why not let Roxie answer that question. Hey Roxie - did you think to tell the official to look up? Why not?
And, no, I do not ACTUALLY think either of them is an idiot. But, it's like, if you were at a bar (and 21) and some good looking girl came up and started chatting with you and you turned to her and told her, "Quiet, I'm watching the game", then I would also call you an idiot - though you may not actually be one. It's an expression, PB. I'm sorry if you or Roxie or Mike took it literally.

And, I'd ask your seat-mate official friend what was inconclusive about the video screen replay.

Finally, yes, it occurred to me that they were barred from seeing that view. But, again, I'm a fan. We can dream.

Anyways, let me ask you - you saw the same in-house replay as me. Did you seriously think that was inconclusive and that WSU could get the ball?

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I wonder if the tv broadcasters can even see the video board from where they sit on the floor. Even if they can, their attention is focused on what's happening on the court and their broadcast monitors, not on what's above them

The replay board showed the play 3 or 4 times and it was totally obvious to the crowd that WSU had knocked it out. I just wish they'd played it as an endless loop while the refs were deliberating (and planning their after-game escape in case WSU ended up winning).

Add this to the Virginia game as a case where technical failures screwed us over.

Did it involve an official wearing a blue hair helmet?

GoCal80;842794105 said:

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I wonder if the tv broadcasters can even see the video board from where they sit on the floor. Even if they can, their attention is focused on what's happening on the court and their broadcast monitors, not on what's above them

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Then the support staff should have helped them report accurately!

concordtom;842794036 said:

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Hey, man.
I'm a fan.
I offer opinion.

As a fan, I'd like to see Mike and Roxie tell the official to look up above them.
And if Roxie believed it should be awarded to Cal (like everyone in the house, as you said) then why not offer the suggestion to the Ref who asked?
Why not let Roxie answer that question. Hey Roxie - did you think to tell the official to look up? Why not?
And, no, I do not ACTUALLY think either of them is an idiot. But, it's like, if you were at a bar (and 21) and some good looking girl came up and started chatting with you and you turned to her and told her, "Quiet, I'm watching the game", then I would also call you an idiot - though you may not actually be one. It's an expression, PB. I'm sorry if you or Roxie or Mike took it literally.

And, I'd ask your seat-mate official friend what was inconclusive about the video screen replay.

Finally, yes, it occurred to me that they were barred from seeing that view. But, again, I'm a fan. We can dream.

Anyways, let me ask you - you saw the same in-house replay as me. Did you seriously think that was inconclusive and that WSU could get the ball?

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WTF?? You get stranger all the time.

petalumabear;842794129 said:

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WTF?? You get stranger all the time.

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Huh?
I was apologizing to you.

concordtom;842794036 said:

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Why not let Roxie answer that question. Hey Roxie - did you think to tell the official to look up? Why not?

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Because he isn't here to read your idiot question.

GoCal80;842794105 said:

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I wonder if the tv broadcasters can even see the video board from where they sit on the floor.

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Yes, they 100% for sure can. But as you eluded to, they would have had to go out of their way to do it, so why not just watch their monitors if they don't know the video board is showing something different. Then again, the loud reaction from the crowd would have made them instinctively look up to see what the commotion was about.

Civil Bear;842794180 said:

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Yes, they 100% for sure can. But as you eluded to, they would have had to go out of their way to do it, so why not just watch their monitors if they don't know the video board is showing something different. Then again, the loud reaction from the crowd would have made them instinctively look up to see what the commotion was about.

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Crowd always reacts though

Just watched the replay of the game. Wow! I can't believe how bad the tv angle was compared to the scoreboard replay. Hard to blame the refs for that. For those not at the game, the in house replay was 1000% clear. That's why for those at the game,it was inconceivable that the refs were taking so long to make a call

Man that would've sucked if we lost that game just because stupid Pac-12 network had awful angles.

R90;842794108 said:

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The replay board showed the play 3 or 4 times and it was totally obvious to the crowd that WSU had knocked it out. I just wish they'd played it as an endless loop while the refs were deliberating (and planning their after-game escape in case WSU ended up winning).

Add this to the Virginia game as a case where technical failures screwed us over.

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C'mon man: They had to stop replaying it on the video board, in order to post people's tweets.

From my one view of the video board, the ball appeared to have been touched by one Coug, before bouncing off ANOTHER Coug and then going out of bounds.

Another absurdity was the sheer amount of time it took for them to review the call. I didn't bother timing it, because it seemed like it was so obviously Cal's ball. Then the review went on and on and on...

Big C_Cal;842794201 said:

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C'mon man: They had to stop replaying it on the video board, in order to post people's tweets.

From my one view of the video board, the ball appeared to have been touched by one Coug, before bouncing off ANOTHER Coug and then going out of bounds.

Another absurdity was the sheer amount of time it took for them to review the call. I didn't bother timing it, because it seemed like it was so obviously Cal's ball. Then the review went on and on and on...

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If the point of replay is to get the call right, only sourcing pac12 video for it is as ridiculous as not being able to overturn a call based on another official's better angle because they're not the same eyes as the official who made the original call. Actually, it's even worse.

Which is why it probably took so long....they were probably aware of the in-house video and were probably looking for confirmation on the TV video so they could over rule the original call. Maybe there is a rule which only allows replay video be viewed on a monitor and not off of a video screen.

And why in the world would they only be able to look at "official" screen? The feed on the in house video screen could not have been altered in that period of time to change what it showed. Sheesh. Sometimes are rules are just plain whacked if in fact that is the rule. I think the purpose is to get the call right. Use the best source.

OdontoBear66;842794283 said:

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And why in the world would they only be able to look at "official" screen? The feed on the in house video screen could not have been altered in that period of time to change what it showed. Sheesh. Sometimes are rules are just plain whacked if in fact that is the rule. I think the purpose is to get the call right. Use the best source.

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Perhaps because they review performance later, and would not have access to the very clear video we at the game all saw. Perhaps they made the rule on that basis, if it IS a rule. If any unofficial video could be used, could a fans iPHone video be introduced? Not a likely scenario I am sure.

ecb;842794195 said:

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Crowd always reacts though

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True, but I thought the commotion was particularly loud in this instance.

Big C_Cal;842794201 said:

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C'mon man: They had to stop replaying it on the video board, in order to post people's tweets.

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there may be restrictions on what can be shown on the video board. I know in other venues (MLS) they cannot show controversial plays so as to avoid antagonizing the crowd. It may be the NCAA has a trigger that prevents showing the play "on an endless loop" and we reached it. At that point the video would no longer be available to the refs. I have had many refs tell me: "coach, I can only call what I see and I did not see what you saw"

I was behind the Cal bench. Had the group immediately behind center court have realized that the refs couldn't see what we saw above, I imagine there would have been tons of hands pointing UP. However, there was not enough gesturing to get their attention - just a ton of noise in reaction to why it was taking so long when we all had made our decision 2 minutes before. I suppose the Cal coaching staff could have pointed upward as well, we did not (that I saw).
It's all understandable how it happened, and I understand that Refs can only call what they see.
This ends up being much ado about nothing, but I still think something could have been done better, and should be done better the next time it happens. I see it as a conference officials issue - you hear that so many times, that refs are not getting the same view. It's just odd. The conference should be able to address this.

petalumabear;842794016 said:

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Tom. Sometimes what you post doesn't jive with reality. Did you ever consider that they can't use unofficial video? The big screen (in house) video probably isn't official and can't be used. Furthermore, they are limited to video from the telecast which is why they asked Rox and Mike. I spoke with Roxy postgame and he felt like everyone in Haas that the call was blown. Interestingly, I sat with a friend who is an official and he predicted the final call stating that it was inconclusive - based on the video board replay! He posts here so he can weigh in if he chooses. Calling Roxy and Monty idiots is just unbelievable..

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First, what is an "unofficial video?" The question is whether they have access to a certain camera angle. But the issue is not the authenticity, or "official" nature of the video. Video is video. If they have it, they can look at it.

Second, there was nothing "inconclusive" about the video that I saw. It clearly went off of WSU.

Go!Bears;842794364 said:

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there may be restrictions on what can be shown on the video board. I know in other venues (MLS) they cannot show controversial plays so as to avoid antagonizing the crowd. It may be the NCAA has a trigger that prevents showing the play "on an endless loop" and we reached it. At that point the video would no longer be available to the refs. I have had many refs tell me: "coach, I can only call what I see and I did not see what you saw"

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I am not sure of the exact rule, but my recollection is that they are limited in how many times they can show a replay. Or at least that's the case at football games, or was at some point...

Obviously I don't intend to be an authority on the subject.

But let me just ask this. If there is, in fact, a replay angle that Pac-12 networks did not show...can someone explain to me logically why the refs can't be told to just look up at the video scoreboard? I mean, hell it's huge. And if there is, in fact, better evidence of what happened, I don't see why the "only official" replays they can look at have to be shown courtside.

The whole system is ridiculous.

Right... you saw the in-Haas video replay which is not the TV video that is used to validate calls. See ducky's post below... let me give you another example... what if some guys sitting in the stands is videotaping the game and has a view that the refs don't from TV.. should they demand his video?

Regarding the "inconclusive" comment. I'm telling you what a friend who is a many decade official sitting with me said.... congratulations that we both saw the Big Screen video the same way. I'm telling you what a very experienced basketball official stated .... argue if you must... just sharing info.

concordtom;842794387 said:

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I was behind the Cal bench. Had the group immediately behind center court have realized that the refs couldn't see what we saw above, I imagine there would have been tons of hands pointing UP. However, there was not enough gesturing to get their attention - just a ton of noise in reaction to why it was taking so long when we all had made our decision 2 minutes before. I suppose the Cal coaching staff could have pointed upward as well, we did not (that I saw).
It's all understandable how it happened, and I understand that Refs can only call what they see.
This ends up being much ado about nothing, but I still think something could have been done better, and should be done better the next time it happens. I see it as a conference officials issue - you hear that so many times, that refs are not getting the same view. It's just odd. The conference should be able to address this.

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Good post Tom... there have to be rules and apparently the rules don't allow just any video to be utilized. It makes sense on some levels and is confusing on others. But certainly they will want to utilize Video that the league controls..... As I posted above to another poster... where does it begin and end? If Shocky is videotaping the game so he can tell the guards to get Ivan more touches, does he run over with his video camera to share his video? ((extreme example I know but just making the point about the PXII having video they control)))

BGGB2;842793974 said:

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Ianbearnson wrote the following on the game thread, but I thought it deserves its own thread.

[FONT=Arial][INDENT]"Just watched on DVR. TV, and the Refs, didn't have/see the same angle shown on the video board, which clearly showed the ball last touch a WSU guy. They went over and asked Roxy & Montgomery if they had a different shot, Mike said no.

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I guess no one saw what I saw on TV which was the change of ball direction. When the ball first bounced off of Cal player, it was going straight towards the basket (where it originally came from). After WSU player went down for the ball, the ball changed the direction and went out of bounds diagonally. Am I the only one that saw this?

Not conclusive
Not enough to over turn call
Refs did right think based on video they could use

Lasers. Lasers is always the answer.