I have to say this. Most of the time I lurk, however, I've seen much vitrol towards the team and Wyking. Our Cal team is one of THE youngest in the NCAA at the moment. People are saying they have no talent which is disrespectful. When you have a young team it's extremely difficult to just come out like gangbusters and destroy your opponent. You can't just start being upset and begin pointing fingers once the losing begins. The players will learn plus buy into what Wyking is trying to instill and they need us to support them and back them up. I wasn't expecting much this season as I was being realistic. Support our Bears and the coach. Next year more talent will come (they will be young as well) but at least this team will have one more year of experience. This season isn't even close to being over yet and people are crucifying the team and coach. I see great things that will happen, you just have to have patience. I expect many more losses during the season. Everybody is happy now but in the long run this team is really in good hands. Just wait. You'll remember me. I'm cynical as hell but let the hating begin lol

Considering our records in Bball and Fball the last 30 years, history can definitely count me as a sunshine pumper. That being said, I do find it hard to take the extremes of the spectrum and pure predictability of responses to either wins or losses. In football, we saw noticeable improvements from the beginning in tackling and across the board. After the first few games, hopes were that we would be a legit contender. After the next three, Bowers had to go and seemingly none of our players were talented enough.

From what I've seen of this basketball team, we had Wichita State on their heels and were the better team for 30 minutes until we simply ran out of gas. That running out of gas carried over the next two games on top of the let down of the game that got away. Our competition played decently well as well. I saw a lot of balls bounce the wrong way as well in the last 5 games, which doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Despite the scores, the talent and games have been closer than that.

We are clearly still finding the right fit and right scheme for our set of players, though given our depth, options are really limited. There's no doubt this is going to be a tough year. Nick Hamilton as a starter says it all. Love the guy, but the fact that we don't have anybody with more talent that can beat him out at this point in the season is definitely a sign. At the same time, we'll win a few that will surprise folks. The main issue I have is trying to put it all on Wyking at this point in the season. If Coach K, Calipari, or any other top tier coach had this team had Hamilton as a starter I wouldn't expect much from them either.

Replacing him in December with what he's been dealt? Please. Also, in saying he was a horrible hire, nobody seems to have come up with a better option that was available. Joe P., the kicker who could also be in trouble soon, Bennett who wouldn't leave...? Hindsight always seems 20/20, but the hire seemed like the best potential (and unknown) alternative at the time (with the little that I know from this board). At least give the guy a chance to see how his strategy works and to try to steal a few wins with a less than loaded team.

Unless the team throws in the towel by the end of the season or another option comes in that was better than those we had before WJ, give the man a chance for this and next year. He has a lot of the same characteristics as Wilcox that we love. He really tried to install his system, which I thought was a good strategy for recruiting and establishing his identity. He just didn't have enough like Wilcox did to do it with any success, basketball is a different game. I look forward to cherishing the few wins we're able to get the rest of this year with hopefully a few exciting upsets and a trend of smiles and enjoying the game from the players on an upward swing. With our recruits coming in and some experience for the current crew, there's hope for the future (and I don't see much more with any other option at this point).

GoldenBear151 said:

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I have to say this. Most of the time I lurk, however, I've seen much vitrol towards the team and Wyking. Our Cal team is one of THE youngest in the NCAA at the moment. People are saying they have no talent which is disrespectful. When you have a young team it's extremely difficult to just come out like gangbusters and destroy your opponent. You can't just start being upset and begin pointing fingers once the losing begins. The players will learn plus buy into what Wyking is trying to instill and they need us to support them and back them up. I wasn't expecting much this season as I was being realistic. Support our Bears and the coach. Next year more talent will come (they will be young as well) but at least this team will have one more year of experience. This season isn't even close to being over yet and people are crucifying the team and coach. I see great things that will happen, you just have to have patience. I expect many more losses during the season. Everybody is happy now but in the long run this team is really in good hands. Just wait. You'll remember me. I'm cynical as hell but let the hating begin lol

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Very well stated, I agree

It's gonna be up and down for this team. Lack of depth hurts and almost did us in after Lee fouled out. Lack of experience will rear its head again. There will be some game down the line where everybody goes nuts. Just gotta hope we have some more up days like today to give the guys a good feeling.

As long as the young men buy into the system things will get better. Let the magic work and let it be. I'm an optimist but honestly I truly do believe the future is bright. Too many people in this day in age of technology (which I am apart of) want results now. It doesn't work that way with humans. The kids aka young men are definitely not like that. They need to learn and if they don't change their habits or techniques at the end of the season then yes that would be because of coaching.

Seems like they did better after Lee fouled out. I'll have to look back on that. Still love the fact they won this game ON THE ROAD!

Very well said Travellingbear. I agree with your post and think we need to give Coach Jones two years to see what he can do. Next year will be critical. Either the team will show signs of improvement and we stick with Jones, or the pain will become so unbearable that our major boosters will agree to the $3 million buyout and pay up to find a coach with more experience. Right now, we should support the team but be realistic that this will probably be our worst season in 40 years.

EricBear said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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Seems like they did better after Lee fouled out. I'll have to look back on that. Still love the fact they won this game ON THE ROAD!

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Marcus picked up his 4th foul with 6:35 to go, Cal up 56-54.

He fouled out with 4:56 to go, same score.

Grant came in for him, seemed to play pretty well.

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Grant's development this year could be a key to the team improving. If he can knock down his outside shots he'll force defenses to open the lane some, which Lee simply cannot do. Coleman and McNeill would certainly benefit from a bit of space to drive.

I generally agree. I really hate all the vitriol towards Wyking by people that think they know everything but really don't have a clue. A coach can only do so much with the hand he's been given, especially when he inherits a roster depleted by transfers (that probably would have transferred regardless of who we hired), graduations and a recruiting class impacted by the departure of the prior coach during the recruiting process.

That being said, this team does lack talent relative to other teams in the conference and relative to nearly all former Cal teams since I've been watching the last 30 years. Are they untalented? No, but their are huge talent gaps and depth issues like the PG and PF positions. We also have team chemistry issues due to inexperience. Wyking has done a fine job trying to assess what we have on the fly.

Nearly every fan was excited Wyking was moving us to a pressing defense because that's what you do when it looks like your offense might be a mess (no real shooters you can count on and no ball distributor). But then we were exposed for our inexperience, lack of floor speed, and ability to run a fast break. So he pivoted and has slowed down the game for the guys.

Wyking and staff got some payoff yesterday. I'm sure the omniscient ones on this board will claim that this is what we should have done the whole time. Those people will never be happy because they see what's coming before everyone else because they look back with 20/20 vision. But Wyking and his staff wanted to put in a new system and they are right for doing so. It just didn't work immediately as hoped.

Imagine if Cuonzo had this team instead of last year's team! I bet with last year's team, Wyking would have taken us to the NCAA tournament. He's a better coach but has a lesser team.

Well said. Cal is actually the second youngest team in D-1. They have the most freshmen on scholarship. Lee was supposed to be the glue that held this team together.. It didn't happen. He doesn't know how to play without fouling. He is a fifth year senior. I doubt it will change, I'm sure his reputation is known by the Pac 12 refs. If you are known as a fouler, they will call it.

The key for this year is the development of the guys who will be rotation players next year, McNeill, Dyson, Sueing, Austin, and Anticovitch, Coleman is Coleman. No telling what his ceiling is. Depends on how many bruises he can handle. Throw in Bradley, Kelly and maybe Gordon and this is a pretty good team. One good big-and it can become an excellent team. The freshmen this year are going to learn a lot more than they would sitting on the bench. Learning to swim the hard way. We haven't seen Dyson's potential yert. With Coleman and Sueing in there, not too many minutes available. Those 2 clutch FTs last night without showing a bit of fear? Immpressive.

Yogi Bear said:

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It's gonna be up and down for this team. Lack of depth hurts and almost did us in after Lee fouled out. Lack of experience will rear its head again. There will be some game down the line where everybody goes nuts. Just gotta hope we have some more up days like today to give the guys a good feeling.

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And there will be more downs than ups as the team is playing for the future, with huge minutes for frosh, and a scheme that doesn't work well for the bigs. This will be a poor team in a bad conference. But I think its the only play Cal has right now for better to worse. Hopefully, Cal doesn't lose its fan base in the process, and this "experiment" in Patino 1A basketball works. Whether Cal can really fill a roster with players who fit the system without the "advantages" Patino apparently enjoyed remains to be seen. I'm not optimistic.

I have had basketball season tickets for 31 years. I thought 8 games was a big enough sample size to draw some of the very negative conclusions that were reached by the majority of the contributors here. To win that game and cover the spread by 15.5 points was a 100% reversal of fortune that no one here predicted. It feels real good to be proven wrong. I was thinking of passing up the Cal State Fullerton game to play golf. Not now. This season just got a whole lot more interesting.

The win was good. Impressive to see that they have been taught how to beat the press. That being said, the jury is still out on Wyking Jones.

oskidunker said:

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The win was good. Impressive to see that they have been taught how to beat the press. That being said, the jury is still out on Wyking Jones.

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Heck, I don't think the presentation of the arguments is over yet (however, a number of the jurors seem to have made up their mind).

caltagjohnson said:

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Well said. Cal is actually the second youngest team in D-1. They have the most freshmen on scholarship. Lee was supposed to be the glue that held this team together.. It didn't happen. He doesn't know how to play without fouling. He is a fifth year senior. I doubt it will change, I'm sure his reputation is known by the Pac 12 refs. If you are known as a fouler, they will call it.

The key for this year is the development of the guys who will be rotation players next year, McNeill, Dyson, Sueing, Austin, and Anticovitch, Coleman is Coleman. No telling what his ceiling is. Depends on how many bruises he can handle. Throw in Bradley, Kelly and maybe Gordon and this is a pretty good team. One good big-and it can become an excellent team. The freshmen this year are going to learn a lot more than they would sitting on the bench. Learning to swim the hard way. We haven't seen Dyson's potential yert. With Coleman and Sueing in there, not too many minutes available. Those 2 clutch FTs last night without showing a bit of fear? Immpressive.

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Don't forget that we also have Paris Austin coming in next year- a proven D1 pg. I think that this team could be pretty competitive next year. Certainly not at the top of the conference, but will a good number of games.

bluesaxe said:

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EricBear said:

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sonofabear51 said:

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Seems like they did better after Lee fouled out. I'll have to look back on that. Still love the fact they won this game ON THE ROAD!

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Marcus picked up his 4th foul with 6:35 to go, Cal up 56-54.

He fouled out with 4:56 to go, same score.

Grant came in for him, seemed to play pretty well.

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Grant's development this year could be a key to the team improving. If he can knock down his outside shots he'll force defenses to open the lane some, which Lee simply cannot do. Coleman and McNeill would certainly benefit from a bit of space to drive.

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Lee did hit about an 18 foot jump shot right at the beginning of the game. I don't know whether he could do that efficiently over several attempts, but he did manage to do it the one time.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-sdsu-basketball-cal-viejas-20171209-story.html

I know this is cliche just wait and see how this team grows. They will surprise folks at times and others take the loss. I'm tired of losing and the wannabe AD but something special will happen. Let it grow and have patience.

People saying we have no talent is disrespectful? We're one of the youngest teams in the Country?

Look at Dukes roster and how many freshman they start. Hell, they start a HS Senior. Michigan State has a starting lineup that could be considered younger. 4 sophomores and 1 freshman. They are top 5 teams because they are talented regardless of youth.

Californication said:

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I generally agree. I really hate all the vitriol towards Wyking by people that think they know everything but really don't have a clue. A coach can only do so much with the hand he's been given, especially when he inherits a roster depleted by transfers (that probably would have transferred regardless of who we hired), graduations and a recruiting class impacted by the departure of the prior coach during the recruiting process.

That being said, this team does lack talent relative to other teams in the conference and relative to nearly all former Cal teams since I've been watching the last 30 years. Are they untalented? No, but their are huge talent gaps and depth issues like the PG and PF positions. We also have team chemistry issues due to inexperience. Wyking has done a fine job trying to assess what we have on the fly.

Nearly every fan was excited Wyking was moving us to a pressing defense because that's what you do when it looks like your offense might be a mess (no real shooters you can count on and no ball distributor). But then we were exposed for our inexperience, lack of floor speed, and ability to run a fast break. So he pivoted and has slowed down the game for the guys.

Wyking and staff got some payoff yesterday. I'm sure the omniscient ones on this board will claim that this is what we should have done the whole time. Those people will never be happy because they see what's coming before everyone else because they look back with 20/20 vision. But Wyking and his staff wanted to put in a new system and they are right for doing so. It just didn't work immediately as hoped.

Imagine if Cuonzo had this team instead of last year's team! I bet with last year's team, Wyking would have taken us to the NCAA tournament. He's a better coach but has a lesser team.

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+1000. I don't know if Wyking is a good coach or not, and I submit that NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER. I am encouraged by the fact that he had adjusted considerably: press, no press, man-to-man, all zone. Speed it up, slow it down trying to find the right combination. Beating SDSU on their floor is not a fluke.

EricBear said:

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Some youth/inexperience stats:

Pitt, Mount St. Mary's, Duke and Kentucky all have 7 scholarship freshman on their rosters. Cal, along with several other teams, has 6.

We have the fewest returning letterwinners, with 2 (along with James Madison). Pitt has 3.

We are 7th in fewest returning starts from 2016-17, with 45. Pitt first, with 3.

We are 3rd in fewest minutes played in 2016-17 by returnees, with 1,167. Pitt is first, with 648. Kentucky second, with 890.

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Duke and UK don't count. I would take their frosh over 99.9% of NCAA players.

Really? Are you going there with this? When you 5 stars consistently? Please think before posting. To Aytee.

GoldenBear151 said:

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Really? Are you going there with this? When you 5 stars consistently? Please think before posting. To Aytee.

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The excuse was we were young and talent was not the problem. I pointed out a school that was younger and had more talent. My point is we are young, but but are lacking talent.

The talent is there and more will come next year. I just don't see see it like you do. To build a program you have to build it. Someone already posted how young we are.

I will say this..there is a silent commit

ayetee11 said:

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GoldenBear151 said:

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Really? Are you going there with this? When you 5 stars consistently? Please think before posting. To Aytee.

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The excuse was we were young and talent was not the problem. I pointed out a school that was younger and had more talent. My point is we are young, but but are lacking talent.

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With a few more players coming in of equal talent to those here, added to the experience our guys are getting this year in spades (and, hopefully, the necessary growth and/or congealing of the coaching staff - which has a lot of good "pieces"), our team will be able to compete with anyone. Hell, the first 3/4 of the Wichita game showed that we have the talent now for the guys and the team to compete with anyone already - on top of which, as the top few teams' losses already this year to un-ranked teams has shown, the general explosion of the basketball talent pool (forgive the mixed metaphor): (1) has considerably minimized the differences between the ranks of high school players, and (2) therefore, in general, majorly evened out the playing field. The only unforgiveable sin is giving up.

GoldenBear151 said:

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I will say this..there is a silent commit

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Any idea when he will no longer be silent?

Helltopay1 is a great free throw shooter.

As much as I respect you there is you just don't know it yet. I won't expand.