One of the Bay Area's greatest basketball players, Clarence Grider, RIP

6,774 Views | 22 Replies | Last: 7 yr ago by helltopay1
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Clarence "Goose" Grider was one of the greatest basketball players to come out of San Francisco, and recently passed away at age 81.

Grider played for Lowell high School, and in 1953, he led Lowell to the AAA Championship and to the Tournament of Champions at Harmon Gym, where he scored 45 points in two games, mostly with his hook shot. He was named to Picture Week Magazine's All-American first team, along with Wilt Chamberlain. He had 25 scholarship offers, and chose to attend Oregon State. He was also a fine baseball player as a pitcher. However, in a hunting accident over the summer, Grider lost an eye, and was never able to play basketball again after high school. He devoted his life to his family, to teaching physical education at Everett Junior High School, his real estate business, and to his favorite charity, which was the public high school baseball programs in San Francisco.

You can read more about this great player in the SF Chronicle newspaper:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sfgate/obituary.aspx?pid=187758116




hotlanta
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thanks so much for the story. He was a remarkable athlete and person.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Dear SFCity Bear---Indeed!!!!When I was a senior, grider was a half-semester ahead of me. One day, because coach Neftfwas absent, he volunteered to coach the 120's in practice. To motivate us, he told us that "practice" always motivated him much more than the actual games. I don't know if his remark was sincere, but we certainly played extra hard in practice that day, and, for some reason, that remark has always remained fresh in my memory. "Goose" would have had a harder time in college because at 'only" 6 feet four and one=half inch, he would have been forced to play on the perimeter much, if not, all of the time. Playing from the perimeter was not his strength. His forte was scoring from inside the key ( only six feet in those days) on hook shots, put-backs and free throws. He was a legend and he will be missed. I saw him several years ago at the annual xmas luncheon for old-time athletes at thge Italian Athletic Club in SAF. He was hunched over with a cane. Don't know if there was a connection.
roqmoq
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Here's another Grider story from a classmate of his at Lowell:

We were classmates--same class and I wasn't even aware he was on the baseball team. May have told you this. We played Washington High School and think we could have won the game, but Clarence missed a foul shot. The next day he was in the gym practicing foul shots. I was on the sideline with this guy watching him. The guy with compete wisdom yelled, "Now, he is making it". Clarence was so pissed off he threw the ball at the guy's head. Guy ducked just in time. I froze in place and gave the innocent Asian look--not me. Clarence recovered the ball and gave chase. Didn't stick around to see the end.

SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

Dear SFCity Bear---Indeed!!!!When I was a senior, grider was a half-semester ahead of me. One day, because coach Neftfwas absent, he volunteered to coach the 120's in practice. To motivate us, he told us that "practice" always motivated him much more than the actual games. I don't know if his remark was sincere, but we certainly played extra hard in practice that day, and, for some reason, that remark has always remained fresh in my memory. "Goose" would have had a harder time in college because at 'only" 6 feet four and one=half inch, he would have been forced to play on the perimeter much, if not, all of the time. Playing from the perimeter was not his strength. His forte was scoring from inside the key ( only six feet in those days) on hook shots, put-backs and free throws. He was a legend and he will be missed. I saw him several years ago at the annual xmas luncheon for old-time athletes at thge Italian Athletic Club in SAF. He was hunched over with a cane. Don't know if there was a connection.
helltopay1 - I was 10 or 11 and playing on a basketball team for the first time, when Grider was having his best years in high school. There really wasn't much interest back then among us kids to go see the high school or even the college players play. I was lucky, because my dad brought me to Cal games beginning when I was maybe 7 or 8. When I got to Lowell, I began to hear of the legendary Neff teams with Grider, but I never saw them play, unfortunately. I was awed by Lowell's lineup in my freshman year, which included HS All-American Meschery, Mel Prescott (who would later start at center for Santa Clara), Ken Balling, Jim Caranica (who would later be named Small College All-American at SF State), Aubrey Tendell, and Nick Caranica. I expected Lowell to win the AAA that year, but older fans than I said that without Grider, the team was not that good. Then of course there was the other All-American, Fred LaCour, and SI to worry about. I think I remember Prescott, Balling, and Tendell graduated in the middle of the season, and SI easily won the title.

You knew Grider, and you saw him play, so you know more than I would, but in those days, being six foot, four and a half inches tall did not always preclude a player from playing and scoring all his points inside the key. Most college power forward types back then were 6'-5" to 6'-8". In '59 and '60, Bill McClintock was exactly the same height as Grider, maybe a little bulkier, and McClintock was an outstanding forward for Cal, and scored all his points from inside the key or pretty close to it. He wasn't a back-to-the-basket post player with a deadly hook shot like Grider probably was, but I never saw him take a shot of any kind outside 10-12 feet. He had no jump shot, really, and shot one-handers on the move. Jump shots were just beginning to appear in the Bay Area in the Grider's era or soon after. Meschery was 6'-6" and had both a jump shot and a hook shot. Did Grider have a jump shot?
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SFCB----grider had a jump shot but I never saw him take a jump shot more than 15 feet from thge basket. I only saw him take one set-shot the entire time. he shot his free-throws underhanded and I know one year he was around 68 % from the line. against Chico in the 1953 semi-final TOC game, he missed a ton of free-throws. Lowell lost by two points so do the math. He clearly was a very good athlete but fred LaCour of SI was a superior athlete. Lacour could play guard and did when SI needed to maintain their lead very late in a game. Labour was also six feet four and one-half inch. BTW, Meschery was also thge exactly the same height as Labour and Grider in high school. Later, meschery either grew to six feet six inches or his height was exaggerated much as the height of all players today is grossly exaggerated. Meschery mostly played forward at Lowell---most of his points came on set-shots and jump shots from the perimeter. He rarely drove due to a lack of quickness. meschery actually improved while in college and improved again while in the pros. Labour was a much better natural athlete than either Grider or Meschery but flamed out because his personal demons got the better of him.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SFCB---aubrey Tendell actually started out at SI ( like me) He played 120's as a freshman. ( didn't start) He drove Neff crazy because he couldn't remember the plays. One time Neff grabbed Aubrey by the ear and marched him the entire length of the floor. poor Benny couldn't survive today. He would be sued 30 times daily. if I had a nickel for every time he swore at me, I'd have more money than rockefeller. aubrey passed away a few years ago while in new Orleans. Quite a character---
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

SFCB----grider had a jump shot but I never saw him take a jump shot more than 15 feet from thge basket. I only saw him take one set-shot the entire time. he shot his free-throws underhanded and I know one year he was around 68 % from the line. against Chico in the 1953 semi-final TOC game, he missed a ton of free-throws. Lowell lost by two points so do the math. He clearly was a very good athlete but fred LaCour of SI was a superior athlete. Lacour could play guard and did when SI needed to maintain their lead very late in a game. Labour was also six feet four and one-half inch. BTW, Meschery was also thge exactly the same height as Labour and Grider in high school. Later, meschery either grew to six feet six inches or his height was exaggerated much as the height of all players today is grossly exaggerated. Meschery mostly played forward at Lowell---most of his points came on set-shots and jump shots from the perimeter. He rarely drove due to a lack of quickness. meschery actually improved while in college and improved again while in the pros. Labour was a much better natural athlete than either Grider or Meschery but flamed out because his personal demons got the better of him.
helltopay1 -- Thanks for the details. I saw LaCour play a lot of games at SI and USF. One summer he broke his left arm and had it in a cast. He still played in pickup games at St Agnes to keep in shape, while wearing the cast on his forearm. His fingers were free, so he would shoot by resting the ball in the fingers of his left hand, and shoot a one hand push shot with his right hand. He could dribble with his right hand better than most players could dribble with two hands, so he was pretty effective. I don't remember if he wore the cast at the beginning of that season at USF. LaRoy Doss was the director at St Agnes that summer, and he brought some of his teammates over from St Marys to work out, like Gene Womack of Poly, and Tom Meschery. KC Jones of the Celtics, and Hal Perry played also, along with 49er football players Abe Woodson and Gary Lewis. Those games were played at another level, about 4 levels above mine.

According to one of Fred LaCour's best friends, the thing that troubled LaCour most was the racism he encountered playing in St Louis. LaCour was a French Creole, whose family came from Louisiana. When he was drafted by the Hawks of the NBA, St. Louis was still a southern town with discrimination similar to the rest of the South. Fred had to live in a separate hotel, eat in a separate restaurant from the rest of the team. San Francisco had some discrimination as well, but it was more beneath the surface at that time, and Fred told his friend he had never experienced anything like St Louis before. He had made one previous trip to the South, to Kentucky for the North South High School All-Star game and was voted the MVP of that game. Oscar Robertson was not invited to that game that year, because no black player had ever been invited, and yet Fred was invited. On the Hawks, several of the players, led by Cliff Hagan, rode Fred hard with no mercy. They bumped him, tripped him, wouldn't pass to him. Only Bob Petit stood up for Fred, and was Fred's best friend on the team. The owners became uneasy about the friction on the team, and the last straw was when Fred began dating a local white girl. The owners then released Fred. He bounced around after that, playing for the SF Saints, I believe, and a team in the East, but the NBA wasn't interested in him again. He always drank a lot and played cards a lot. He got busted kiting checks, and a few year later died way too young of cancer. A tragic story. Racism scarred a lot of players in several sports. It was maybe the combination of his demons and society's demons that did him in.
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

SFCB---aubrey Tendell actually started out at SI ( like me) He played 120's as a freshman. ( didn't start) He drove Neff crazy because he couldn't remember the plays. One time Neff grabbed Aubrey by the ear and marched him the entire length of the floor. poor Benny couldn't survive today. He would be sued 30 times daily. if I had a nickel for every time he swore at me, I'd have more money than rockefeller. aubrey passed away a few years ago while in new Orleans. Quite a character---
Helltopay1 I never knew Aubrey, just saw him play for a semester. My first year, I played with Aubrey's brother, Reggie Tendell, who was a really nice guy and good teammate. He played only one year and either left or graduated Lowell.

So you started out playing for Rene Herrerias at St Ignatius and left for Lowell to play for Benny Neff? Wasn't that like going from the frying pan into the fire?

The first time I attended practice at Lowell, we were doing a pivot drill, and I pivoted on the wrong foot. Someone came up behind me and kicked right in the butt and it sent me sprawling to the floor. I wasn't hurt, only shocked, and turned around to see Benny Neff standing there yelling at me that I had used the wrong foot and not to do it again. Then he broke into a big laugh, and reached over and helped me stand up.

My father played for Ben Neff, as did my uncle. My uncle sent his son to Lincoln to play for Will Ryan, because he did not want Benny Neff yelling at his son. My father was second string. One day, Neff called him "A G..damn little ***. My dad hit Neff with one blow to the face, and Neff fell to the floor. The next day, my dad was promoted to first string, and started every game thereafter.

My first year I played for Bob Anino, who couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. We were in a 3rd overtime at Balboa, sudden death, first two points wins the game, when Martin Badie fouls a Bal player in the backcourt, which in those days was a two shot foul. The kid makes the first free throw. Neff comes down out of the stands and tells Anino to call time out, and Neff takes over as coach. The time out froze the Bal player. Neff proceeded to yell at Badie, really cussed him out. Badie goes down to the end of the bench to sulk, figuring Neff is taking him out of the game. Neff pulls the coins out of his pocket tosses them on the floor and diagrams a play for our best player, Eddie Jackson. the buzzer sounds to start play, and Neff yells at Badie. "What are you doing sitting there? Get back into the game." Badie goes back in. The Bal player misses his second free throw, and we get the ball. Badie helps set a double screen, and Jackson is wide open for a layup and we win. That was classic Ben Neff. Neff was always riding Badie, who was good but hard to control. One day at practice Neff cussed him out pretty good. Badie just stood there. If he had decked Neff with one punch, he would have been back on the first string. Instead Badie quit the team, and never played again. He reportedly got involved in stealing, dealing drugs and pimping after Lowell.

Students at Lowell in those years were not allowed to smoke cigarettes. At lunch time some guys went across Hayes street to Johnnie's coffee shop to eat a hamburger and smoke. Athletes started going over there to smoke. One day, in the door comes Neff, and he sees a football player, the meanest bully on the team who was about 6'-3" and 235 lbs, smoking. Little Benny goes up to him, takes the cigarette out of his mouth, and throws it on the floor and steps on it, confiscates the kid's cigarettes, and walks out. He had no authority to do that outside of school grounds, but that wouldn't stop Benny. After that none of Benny's players went to Johnnies to smoke.

What a lot of people never got was that with Neff, it was all an act. He tried to intimidate young players, to get them to put aside their selfish instincts and sacrifice them for the team. Some star players he never bullied, and some, like me, he never gave a compliment. He only told my father when I had done something good. Meschery and Balling used to just laugh at Neff when he went off. But the swearing and throwing things (he threw ball, whistle, and anything else at me) was just psychology trying to get control of young skulls full of mush. It worked fine at Lowell, where he won plenty of titles, but one time he needed some extra money, so took a job coaching St Marys College along with coaching Lowell for three years. His St Marys teams had a losing record. When I came to Cal and went to Newell's practices, I saw Newell as a professor, quietly instructing players in a soft voice. The players were older, a little more mature, and you could not intimidate them like high school kids. That is why I think Neff failed at St Marys. That stuff seldom works in college. Campanelli was another example. Brad Duggan was successful at it, and so was Bobby Knight, but they are rare.

Ben Neff was great Cal fan, and attended every home game for years, sitting in the southeast corner about 12 rows up. He told me the corner was the best place to see a game from. His life was his family, his players, and the game.

While Neff was sometimes brutal at practice, away from the game, he was a different person. I had asthma pretty bad, so I would get gassed after 3-4 trips down the court, and have to come out of the game. I didn't dare tell Neff, because I knew he would kick me off the team. He used to tell me to go play for the girl's team, and he used to wait for me after practice, and make me walk up the hills with him to Twin Peaks, instead of riding the bus. He figured all that was wrong with me was that I was in poor condition, and I needed more exercise. He spent summers backpacking in the Sierras, and he told me many stories of the mountains, and of his former players, whom he loved. Whenever he was downtown, he used to stop by my dad's office and tell him how well I was playing. He used to stop by my uncle's office as well. He used to take walks with his dog, and sometimes he'd stop by our house to see my dad and me. He always cared about us and about many other players. I had a life long relationship with him as did my dad. He never really hurt anyone. They were just words, along with a few balls and whistles to get your attention, and he helped make men out of a lot of boys. You are right about Neff being sued today, and probably fired. You can't do that stuff today, and as a result, fewer boys are becoming men, or it is taking them a lot longer, IMHO.






helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SFCB---thanks for the informative post. I probably told you this story, but in 1928, my Dad played for Galileo against Lowell in the title game. Lowell won 14-12. luckily for Lowell, the great Luisetti banged up his knee in thge first quarter and only scored one point. That year, Lowell had three terrific players---Hays, Conroy and Carney. My Dad made second-string all-city that year. Neff went to Cal, and a former player told me that Neff was a boxing champ in his weight division. He was pretty well built. He wasn't a bad shooter either. Some players transferred because they were intimidated. Always a 1-3-1. zone defense. I was the 1 who chased the ball at the top of the key. He suffered from severe dementia later on and didn't remember a damn thing about his life. Pretty sad!!!!!!
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

SFCB---thanks for the informative post. I probably told you this story, but in 1928, my Dad played for Galileo against Lowell in the title game. Lowell won 14-12. luckily for Lowell, the great Luisetti banged up his knee in thge first quarter and only scored one point. That year, Lowell had three terrific players---Hays, Conroy and Carney. My Dad made second-string all-city that year. Neff went to Cal, and a former player told me that Neff was a boxing champ in his weight division. He was pretty well built. He wasn't a bad shooter either. Some players transferred because they were intimidated. Always a 1-3-1. zone defense. I was the 1 who chased the ball at the top of the key. He suffered from severe dementia later on and didn't remember a damn thing about his life. Pretty sad!!!!!!
helltopay1 -- Yes, you did tell some of that story about your Dad. Yeas ago I asked Ben Neff about Luisetti, and he told me about that game. He said that Galileo had a great team that year, and he said Lowell had a very good team also. He said he was really lucky to win that game. The next two years, he tried freezing the ball so Luisetti could not get hold of it, but he lost to Galileo both years.

Neff played 145s basketball at Cal, and was the designated free throw shooter for that team. They had a rule in those days where if a foul was called and the player shooting the free throws was not a good shooter, you could substitute a better shooter to shoot the free throws for him. And for the Cal 145s, Ben Neff was the man. He also taught me how to put the correct spin on shots off the backboard, like layups. I think it was one sentence, and it was the only instruction I ever got from any coach in shooting.

Ben spent his last years in a rest home in the Sierras I think.
roqmoq
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Here's another memory from a Lowell student who was there when Grider was there. I went to Washington so did not know all the stories about the legendary Neff.

Recognized Meschery and of course Ben Neff. He was varsity coach, but that didn't keep him from yelling at us 30's players when we scrimmage against the varsity. I flubbed two passes thrown to me when I was in position to take a hook shot (turned before I had complete control of the ball) below the foul line and omigosh was he yelling %$#&&^%^ about hanging on to the ball.

BTW, surprised there was no mention of Albert Mock. He played the same time as Grider.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I remember Mock very well. Another mid-year grad. His brother, Harry Mock, was a star player for Commerce. Just for fun I looked up Mock and there is a Al Mock living in Oklahoma. I don't mean to be politically incorrect ( heaven forbid) but I bet there aren't three chinese living in Oklahoma. Oklahoma?????????
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
roqmoq said:

Here's another memory from a Lowell student who was there when Grider was there. I went to Washington so did not know all the stories about the legendary Neff.

Recognized Meschery and of course Ben Neff. He was varsity coach, but that didn't keep him from yelling at us 30's players when we scrimmage against the varsity. I flubbed two passes thrown to me when I was in position to take a hook shot (turned before I had complete control of the ball) below the foul line and omigosh was he yelling %$#&&^%^ about hanging on to the ball.

BTW, surprised there was no mention of Albert Mock. He played the same time as Grider.

I never had the pleasure of seeing Al Mock play, but his name was a legend around the locker room when I was a freshman at Lowell. I found the team photo from 1953, with Mock standing next to Ken Balling, and Mock looked almost as tall as Balling who was about 6-5 or 6-6, about 230 lbs. I'd guess Mock was 6-3 or 6-4.
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
My dad played for Ben Neff in the 1920s. He said Neff always wore a hat to games, and he got so intense in the games, that he would start chewing on his hat, often chewing it to pieces. Mrs Neff, Ben's wife, started coming to games, and before each game, she came out of the stands and said, "Benny, give me the hat." Pete Newell used to chew on a towel during games. Stressful occupation.

Another Neff story: In 1959, our 130s (under a a different coach, not Neff) were playing Poly, Lowell's arch rival, and I had scored nearly all the team's points in the first half. I was red-hot, and all the players were trying to get me the ball so I could shoot more. Unfortunately, they asked me to do more than I was capable of doing. As a forward, i wasn't as good a ball handler as the guards. Poly was running a full-court press, and I ran into the back court to help our guards, they passed me the ball and ran to the other end of the court, leaving me to try and dribble by myself through the press. I lost the ball 2 or 3 times, and Poly scored off every turnover I made. At the half, Neff came down out of the stands and started screaming at me to protect the ball when I dribbled, to get my butt between the defender and the ball. I made sure I didn't lose the ball in the 2nd half, but I didn't score a point either.
59bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SFCityBear said:

Clarence "Goose" Grider was one of the greatest basketball players to come out of San Francisco, and recently passed away at age 81.

Grider played for Lowell high School, and in 1953, he led Lowell to the AAA Championship and to the Tournament of Champions at Harmon Gym, where he scored 45 points in two games, mostly with his hook shot. He was named to Picture Week Magazine's All-American first team, along with Wilt Chamberlain. He had 25 scholarship offers, and chose to attend Oregon State. He was also a fine baseball player as a pitcher. However, in a hunting accident over the summer, Grider lost an eye, and was never able to play basketball again after high school. He devoted his life to his family, to teaching physical education at Everett Junior High School, his real estate business, and to his favorite charity, which was the public high school baseball programs in San Francisco.

You can read more about this great player in the SF Chronicle newspaper:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sfgate/obituary.aspx?pid=187758116





I remember Grider as the premier HS basketball player in Northern California as I was of the same era. I knew he had never done much in college but didn't know of the injury.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Dear SF---Balling and Mock were much smaller than you thought. One day Mock and Balling got into a fight, and rider threw thge ball at their heads to break up the flight. The ball missed. Not much of a fight--wrestling stuff---no punches thrown.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SF---in those days, Feiling coached thec130's-----he couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag either---he was also the swimming coach---I swam for two years---he never held one practice---
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
SF--Balling was no more than six one while Mock was close to that.
roqmoq
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

I remember Mock very well. Another mid-year grad. His brother, Harry Mock, was a star player for Commerce. Just for fun I looked up Mock and there is a Al Mock living in Oklahoma. I don't mean to be politically incorrect ( heaven forbid) but I bet there aren't three chinese living in Oklahoma. Oklahoma?????????
Don't forget all the Chinese restaurants that dot almost every city and small town throughout the U.S. But you are right, no reason for me to be in OK. No worries, your comment did not offend this Chinese.
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

Dear SF---Balling and Mock were much smaller than you thought. One day Mock and Balling got into a fight, and rider threw thge ball at their heads to break up the flight. The ball missed. Not much of a fight--wrestling stuff---no punches thrown.
htp1 - You are probably right, since you played with them. The team picture I have is from 1953, and I did not first see Balling until Fall of 1955, as he was playing the final semester of his senior year. On that '55-56 team, Prescott was listed at 6-7, and Meschery at 6-6, while Balling played the other forward position. Could Balling have grown a couple of inches by 1955? I know I grew almost 2 inches in my freshman year.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Balling played center. Meschery and Prescott played forward. Balling did not have the skills to play the perimeter. He bullied his way in the key. Prescott had a very good set shot but did not have quickness or toughness. Balling became a plumber and passed away many years ago. Prescott passed away about 5 years ago. Mel and I were screw-ups and never studied in high school. He came from the Mission district. He knew all the Mission players.
SFCityBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

Balling played center. Meschery and Prescott played forward. Balling did not have the skills to play the perimeter. He bullied his way in the key. Prescott had a very good set shot but did not have quickness or toughness. Balling became a plumber and passed away many years ago. Prescott passed away about 5 years ago. Mel and I were screw-ups and never studied in high school. He came from the Mission district. He knew all the Mission players.
You're right. Balling was playing center in 1955, when I arrived at Lowell. The only Balling story I have is too risque for this board, so I''ll save that one, to tell in case we ever meet.

When Balling and Prescott graduated at mid-season, Neff moved Meschery to center, as I remember. The next season, Meschery graduated at mid-season, and Neff replaced him at center with Rich Hudson, who was only 5'-10" tall, but was the City High Jump champion, as I remember. He put up a gallant effort, but to no avail. The year after that, Howie Sundberg transferred to Lowell from Lincoln, to give Lowell a little height, but Neff really wasn't getting many good big players by then. They were mostly going to Poly and Washington. After a few unsuccessful seasons, Neff retired, and I don't think Lowell had good teams again until Stan Stewart arrived to coach them years later.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I was friendly with everyone on the team except Balling.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.