It's possible that it wouldn't make much of a difference, but he certainly looks like a more capable shooter than Coleman, and he might be a better PG option to get our offense flowing. The few outside looks he's gotten in the last few games have looked better than Don's outside shooting, and I wonder if that threat might give the bigs a bit more room inside and also give McNeil a bit more room to shoot from the outside as well.

I may well be wrong, but esp. if we are going to play zone on defense, I don't think there would be much defensive dropoff, and anything to get a bit more scoring punch would be beneficial.

It could be that Winston would just be too overwhelmed and not provide any benefit, but at this stage, it seems like we've hit an offensive plateau with Don.

no

I don't know about Winston, but jhd needs to get way more PT.

He's the best defender (something that maybe cal could possibly use?) and he's a terrific rebounder for his size. He really does all the little things right and he should only improve with more playing time.

ducky23 said:

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I don't know about Winston, but jhd needs to get way more PT.

He's the best defender (something that maybe cal could possibly use?) and he's a terrific rebounder for his size. He really does all the little things right and he should only improve with more playing time.

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JHD, McNeil, Sueing need to be given the Coleman green light. They actually figure into our future plans.

CalLifer said:

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It's possible that it wouldn't make much of a difference, but he certainly looks like a more capable shooter than Coleman, and he might be a better PG option to get our offense flowing. The few outside looks he's gotten in the last few games have looked better than Don's outside shooting, and I wonder if that threat might give the bigs a bit more room inside and also give McNeil a bit more room to shoot from the outside as well.

I may well be wrong, but esp. if we are going to play zone on defense, I don't think there would be much defensive dropoff, and anything to get a bit more scoring punch would be beneficial.

It could be that Winston would just be too overwhelmed and not provide any benefit, but at this stage, it seems like we've hit an offensive plateau with Don.

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I don't think Winston should be starting, but I thought he was somewhat of a bright spot for the Bears tonight, playing better than he has is some other games this year. I don't know that he'll be a starter, but I do think he could be a decent role player off the bench over time, and I do think he should be in the rotation, especially when McNeil and Coleman are struggling like they did tonight.

Play Winston and Anticevich more, play Coleman and Hamilton less. Guard the three ball. I beg of you.

Play Bradley more.
Hope Gordon heals.
Hope Kelly can't ball.
And get on the recruiting trail. .

Sueing has green light and is taking it. 17 shots, and many times it's our only O, which looks like barf, by the way. Poor movement, ball or people. Sueing takes 1v1, and makes. He's our best player.

I'm all for limiting DC's PT a bit but not with Winston. DW has a lower 2-point FG%, a lower 3-point FG%, commits more turnovers, commits more fouls and has fewer assists than DC (on a per 40 mins basis), so I'm not sure that would be helping the cause much. And pick your poison on the defensive end, both are solidly below average defenders. Unfortunately, I don't really see a good option here other than working with Coleman on becoming more efficient and playing under control. Next year will be a different story though. Hoping we'll have an extra scholarship available for a 3-and-D guy. But regardless, I think DC's minutes will go down significantly next year.

Personally, I blame Jay Bilas for DC's slide. Ever since he went 94 feet with Bilas in Hawai'i, it's been rough going.

G Coleman. It's the soph season taper or plateau.

coleman's drive game doesn't work vs the taller, more athletic rim protectors of the pac12. we knew that from last year where he only had high scoring games a few times (once against a tall, but less athletic ucla team). it was predictable that he would have a poor game vs AZ's twin towers unless he was able to shoot well (which he didn't). You can see he's trying to do more pull up jumpers, but his form is just not good on those. Needs an off season to work on it. But what he absolutely needs to do better is penetrate and pass. That is completely on him.

But we need the aggressiveness and threat of coleman on the court. winston is an okay player because he doesn't try to do too much and thinks like a PG, but he doesn't pose a threat to the defense.

Agree with you, HD. Conference play has been tough on DC. Not only is he getting defender by bigger, more athletic players, they know not to foul him on the drives because the lay up isnt likely going in. His FT attempts have basically been cut in half in conference play. And perhaps even officials are letting it go a little more now that they understand the MO.

Taller, more athletic defenders have affected his shooting too. So far in conference play, he's down to 25% on 2's and 18% on 3's. Unfortunately. I just don't see a better option. I admire the alpha baller mentality but he needs to understand that he's probably our 4th or 5th best scoring option.

Since I view this season in terms of development, rather than wins-and-losses, I'd play Winston more. He played better last night in that he didn't make a lot of turnovers, but he's no threat to the defense. But playing him gets him more used to the speed of the game, in preparation for next year. Based on his lack of improvement from last year, I don't see Coleman changing his game going forward. The high-scoring games he had early in the year were basically a mirage, because his wild shots were going in. He's a good situational sub, when you need to speed up the game, but not someone who should be getting major minutes.

No. Play a little more, possibly. Start, no.

At this point in time, I think our best lineup is starting:

Lee
Sueing
Harris-Dyson
McNeil
Coleman

With Okoroh, Winston* & Antecivich* off the bench.

*I think Hamilton and Welle can help off the bench, but as Seniors, may want to give some minutes to younger players (Winston and Antecivich) as situation permits (i.e if game is not on the line), although both may be better contributors at this point in time.

I also think Davis is starting to get to the point where he can consistently contribute, but it seems to depend on the situation (competition, fouls, injuries).

I'd love it if Winston could replace Coleman to gain more experience as a starter, but I just don't see it yet. Maybe by season's end. For that matter, Coleman may adjust his game to be indispensible as a starter as well by season's end.

In my opinion, the ASU lineup is our best lineup and I hope we continue to see it even though Coach Jones suggested it may have been a matchup specific thing (which I'm not sure I fully grasp). King needs to start for his defensive presence as he's the most disruptive defender on the team and changes (or blocks) a lot of shots. Yes, you don't get much offense from King but his defense more than makes up for it, at least with the current roster and the alternatives. I'd keep bringing DC off the bench. He looks lost offensively right now and is a net-negative on that end, at least recently. And his defense has been well below average all season. I don't hold out hope the D will improve but maybe in a 6th man/sparkplug role, he'll rediscover his offense.

The rest of the guys are no-brainers. Like King, JHD doesn't provide much offense but is earning minutes on the defensive end and is evolving into a very strong defender. Sueing, McNeill and Lee are obvious locks in the starting five I'm fine with Winston and Hamilton getting 5-10 mins a game but would like to see a little more Anticevich just because I see some raw potential there. Davis and McCullough are non-factors and probably should only play with serious foul trouble or In case of Injury.

Just my $0.02.

Winston is not strong enough with the ball. He reminds me of Chauca in this respect

Both Winston and Chauca were good ball handlers but both have trouble with physical defenders. This is another frustration I have with refs. They call some ticky tank foul that has no impact to the player or the play, but don't call a foul when a defender assaults a player like Winston.

But until refs call the game differently I don't think we can play Winston a lot

Another call I don't like is when a defender is pushing a big behind has back causing him to walk. It should be a no call, or foul on defender

I always go early to the games to see which players can shoot, and, of course, which players can't shoot. Winston, mcCullough , and Davis can't shoot. coleman is an average shooter in practice ( not a surprise that he struggles from the perimeter in games) MacNeil is a very good practice shooter. hence, it is no surprise that he is our best perimeter shooter. Sueing is an average perimeter shooter in practice. Hence, it is no surprise that he is an average shooter from thge perimeter in games. dyson is an average shooter in practice. hence-----you get the idea. The Aussie is a pretty good shooter in practice, but lacks quickness, and as a result, rarely has a chance to get his shots off in game competition. next year, he will b e stronger and faster, and will play with more confidence. If Davis hadn't already sat out one year, he would be an ideal transfer candidate. Winston plays an important position, so he probably isn't a good transfer candidate. macCullough looks to be the best transfer candidate. Unless, of course, he doesn't mind hardly playing over the next three years. You're welcome.

helltopay1 said:

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I always go early to the games to see which players can shoot, and, of course, which players can't shoot. Winston, mcCullough , and Davis can't shoot.

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I try to go to the pre-pre-game warm up for the same reason, however I haven't been able to get there as often this year (usually because I play pickup in the RSF for one game too long!)

but what I don't understand is McCullough. why did we sign him if he can't shoot (and based on what I've seen, I think you're right)? it was clear before the season we didn't have enough shooters, so I assumed we signed him to try to address this. He also lacks quickness to play at this level. the only thing I can see is he has reasonably good size for a shooting guard.

I would much rather have signed an undersized (e.g. 6-1) shooting guard, which should have been available (mid-majors are full of them, and we've seen what they can do). Actually ASU has 3 of them too.

Indeed--let me clarify--in practice, macCullough fluctuates between a c- and a c-plus shooter from the perimeter. Clearly, that's not terrible, but if you are a C shooter in practice, you will be less than that in a game situation. Normally, if you aren't a great shooter, hopefully, you make up for that by being quick. ( Think Dyson) At this level, he doesn't have the desired quickness. he is not the only recruiting mistake in Cal history and he will not be the last. I understand he's a good student. Hopefully, that can rub off on some other athletes who need a good academic example. I hope I'm not being too harsh.

I too am underwhelmed by McCullough. Chauca was clearly a reach recruit who sort of blew up his senior year when Cal had a scholly to give. It didn't work out, but there were never any expectations for him other than 'give it a shot'. McCullough, however, was touted to be a strong shooter with a high IQ (and not so much of a reach as I recall). So I agree with his comparisons to Chauca in terms of results, but not in terms of expectations.

It seems to me, that he is too tight (in a muscular way). This could affect both his shooting and defensive quickness. One thought I had it that he is still adapting physically to Cal's strength and conditioning regimen. Could this be the case? It seems that the S&C coach would recognize this if obvious and do more with flexibility and quickness training. On the other hand, if he needs to bulk up and is not going to be used much this season, maybe that is the case.

Anyone have any insight? Or is he just not a P12 level backup (like Chauca wasn't)?

*From all I heard, Chauca was a great part of the team and I have no concerns with his character or that he was on the roster. I'm just commenting on his in-game effectiveness at the P12 level.