I know this is old but I'm not quit sure what happened. Is that why Charlie Moore left to?

With all the racial issues happening then at Missouri, the Tigers were desperate to hire a black coach. They offered Cuonzo a long term contract worth millions to leave Cal and we couldn't (and shouldn't) spend enough to keep him. Add in that it allowed Cuonzo to return home and that he surely knew Cal was going to be bad this year and his departure wasn't surprising at all.

I think the primary reason was that Missouri offered Martin an incredibly favorable contract. It is a seven year deal for $21 million with approximately $600k a year in additional incentives. The key is that Missouri cannot terminate the contract in the first three years, and if it did so after year three, Martin would receive a $6 million buyout. Thus, Martin was guaranteed approximately $15 million regardless of how the team performed. In contrast, Martin was making less than $2 million a year at Cal with a maximum buyout at that time of $2 million. He could have tried to renegotiate with Cal, but there is no way we would have matched the Missouri deal for a coach who has only been to the NCAA tournament twice in his career. Finally, keep in mind that the cost of living at Missouri is much lower than the Bay Area. There were perhaps some push factors as well (no contract at Cal for a long time, no dedicated practice facility, and incredibly slow clearing of his name in the sexual harassment investigation), but I can only speculate how much they were a reason for his departure.

dpy said:

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I know this is old but I'm not quit sure what happened. Is that why Charlie Moore left to?

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With regard to Cuonzo leaving, have you ever heard the expression, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?

He absolutely could not stand magenta.

If anything, Mizzou did Cal a favor by taking Martin off our hands. He was a poor coach who got very little out of the abundance of available talent - one trip to the NCAA, no postseason tourney wins.

Historically, Cal has had better coaches. Heck, Cal has fired better coaches (Camp, Braun). Apart from the political correctness angle, I can think of no good reason why Mizzou would pay a fortune for such a mediocre coach.

I was happy to see him go. Until Mike Williams hired his replacement, who actually makes Martin look good by comparison. But having a lousy new coach doesn't make the old coach any less mediocre or make me any less glad to see him gone.

He also had to know the cupboard was about to be bare, and he had to know Charlie was considering transferring.

Uthaithani said:

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If anything, Mizzou did Cal a favor by taking Martin off our hands. He was a poor coach who got very little out of the abundance of available talent - one trip to the NCAA, no postseason tourney wins.

Historically, Cal has had better coaches. Heck, Cal has fired better coaches (Camp, Braun). Apart from the political correctness angle, I can think of no good reason why Mizzou would pay a fortune for such a mediocre coach.

I was happy to see him go. Until Mike Williams hired his replacement, who actually makes Martin look good by comparison. But having a lousy new coach doesn't make the old coach any less mediocre or make me any less glad to see him gone.

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You sunshine pumpers make me sick!

Just kidding - I agree that 3 years was enough for Martin at Cal, turns out it wasn't a great fit. Mizzou must have had some reasons to pay such a premium for him. As for Jones, he will probably get three years, so there is time to see how he grows as a coach. Not sure of his actual coaching chops yet, but this season was not the best opportunity for a first time HC. I don't hold that against him (but it should have gone into Williams decision).

I'm not ready to agree that Jones make Martin look good by comparison (even though he does look good by comparison). After three years, we'll have a good sense of Jones ability as a recruiter, coach and program leader. If it works, I think Williams will not look so bad, but I won't call him a genius, because he is sort of setting up Jones to fail. If it doesn't then it will be what it is - a mistake hire. So I hope Jones can pull the rabbit out of the hat, but I don't think Williams will ever be redeemed for the decision to hire him.

I could tell that Charlie wasn't really happy here when, after a game where he had a ton of assists, I congratulated him. He was polite, said thank you, but the look in his eyes was not one of rejoicing in a victory and a career performance. He just looked sad and distant, like he just wasn't into it.

parentswerebears said:

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I could tell that Charlie wasn't really happy here when, after a game where he had a ton of assists, I congratulated him. He was polite, said thank you, but the look in his eyes was not one of rejoicing in a victory and a career performance. He just looked sad and distant, like he just wasn't into it.

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Well perhaps he was thinking about his father.

After I heard about that, that's exactly what I was thinking it was. That is super stressful, and to be this far away must have made him feel really powerless. I am sad to see him go, but I truly understand why he did and even why Kansas was better for him. I never got all the vitriol that people spew toward him after he announced he was leaving.

Martin, on the other hand, I get that vitriol.

BearGreg said:

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mdbear said:

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I think the primary reason was that Missouri offered Martin an incredibly favorable contract. It is a seven year deal for $21 million with approximately $600k a year in additional incentives. The key is that Missouri cannot terminate the contract in the first three years, and if it did so after year three, Martin would receive a $6 million buyout. Thus, Martin was guaranteed approximately $15 million regardless of how the team performed. In contrast, Martin was making less than $2 million a year at Cal with a maximum buyout at that time of $2 million. He could have tried to renegotiate with Cal, but there is no way we would have matched the Missouri deal for a coach who has only been to the NCAA tournament twice in his career. Finally, keep in mind that the cost of living at Missouri is much lower than the Bay Area. There were perhaps some push factors as well (no contract at Cal for a long time, no dedicated practice facility, and incredibly slow clearing of his name in the sexual harassment investigation), but I can only speculate how much they were a reason for his departure.

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This is a very good summary. Add in Martin's challenges with Admissions and his growing recognition that the style of offense he wanted to play relied on a type of athlete that were not numerous enough relative to our academic requirements for him to be successful and you had a Coach looking for a reason to leave.

Two weeks prior to getting an offer from Missouri, Martin was 100% confident that Moore would be back and he was also confident about a graduate transfer big man being added to the Baker, JHD, Sueing and Anticevich class.

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That 100% certainty just rings hollow in hindsight.

But on the other hand, I understand that things can change in a hurry. I, too, was 100% sure that I would be doing my job in Sacramento, then was offered a position in my town, and two weeks later, everything in my life had changed- a lot!

BearGreg said:

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This is a very good summary. Add in Martin's challenges with Admissions and his growing recognition that the style of offense he wanted to play relied on a type of athlete that were not numerous enough relative to our academic requirements for him to be successful and you had a Coach looking for a reason to leave.

Two weeks prior to getting an offer from Missouri, Martin was 100% confident that Moore would be back and he was also confident about a graduate transfer big man being added to the Baker, JHD, Sueing and Anticevich class.

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Interesting comment. Do you believe that Wyking wanting to press, zone, and change up defenses will run into the same recruiting challenges as Cuonzo's preferred offensive style did?

Still think that declaring Wyking as a "new lousy coach" is completely jumping the gun. Be realistic and give the man a chance to work things out. He inherited a mess.

As I said in another post, Martin's story (East St. Louis upbringing, surviving cancer, etc.) dovetailed perfectly with Missouri's needs in the wake of their racial problems, including the problems in the athletic department. The school was really paying more for Martin's story than his coaching ability, IMHO. Unless the lower entrance requirements there permit Martin to recruit good enough athletes to overcome his Xs and Os deficiencies on offense, or unless he gets better strategically, sooner or later he'll be evaluated on his actual results, and will likely be fired, at which point he'll laugh all the way to the bank. He basically used us as a way station to rehabilitate himself after being run out of town in Knoxville, which is why so many people are mad at him, and at Missouri.

If you ask me, Missouri was paying for the prospect of landing top 10 recruits, not for his backstory.

dpy said:

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I know this is old but I'm not quit sure what happened. Is that why Charlie Moore left to?

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I can only think of 21 Million reasons.

BearGreg said:

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mdbear said:

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I think the primary reason was that Missouri offered Martin an incredibly favorable contract. It is a seven year deal for $21 million with approximately $600k a year in additional incentives. The key is that Missouri cannot terminate the contract in the first three years, and if it did so after year three, Martin would receive a $6 million buyout. Thus, Martin was guaranteed approximately $15 million regardless of how the team performed. In contrast, Martin was making less than $2 million a year at Cal with a maximum buyout at that time of $2 million. He could have tried to renegotiate with Cal, but there is no way we would have matched the Missouri deal for a coach who has only been to the NCAA tournament twice in his career. Finally, keep in mind that the cost of living at Missouri is much lower than the Bay Area. There were perhaps some push factors as well (no contract at Cal for a long time, no dedicated practice facility, and incredibly slow clearing of his name in the sexual harassment investigation), but I can only speculate how much they were a reason for his departure.

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This is a very good summary. Add in Martin's challenges with Admissions and his growing recognition that the style of offense he wanted to play relied on a type of athlete that were not numerous enough relative to our academic requirements for him to be successful and you had a Coach looking for a reason to leave.

Two weeks prior to getting an offer from Missouri, Martin was 100% confident that Moore would be back and he was also confident about a graduate transfer big man being added to the Baker, JHD, Sueing and Anticevich class.

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Bear Greg is correct - the challenges with Admissions was wearing on him (3 big time recruits wanted to come to Cal and had 2.6-2.8 gap ranges and 3 were turned down - i do not know the test scores) Coach said that "chances/opportunities need to be given -and that he was given a chance when entering Purdue, when he was an marginal HS student. He believed he could motivate and successfully monitor the players who were turned down.
Coach's wife wanted to stay and it was decided over several back and forth discussions. Additionally not having a practice facility was a big factor to Coach as well. Twice during the season, the team was forced to borrow an local high school gym for practice. No question when coach moved on, it negatively impacted the program and people are justified in their disappointment over his decision to leave. I however think his won/loss record was solid given the obstacles coach's face at Cal. He brought in big time players, had a Cal record home winning streak achieved, and got us into the Tournament with a 4th seed (long time that had happened for Men's hoops).
That Ty broke his hand and Jabari's back acted up meant 40% of the starting lineup did not play (and 2 key players). Meaning that loss in the first round certainly was not Coach's fault. All water under the bridge and I am pulling for Coach Jones to prove the nah sayers wrong next season. I believe the team will be vastly improved and will achieve an winning record next season.

He was fired. Had Ivan, Jaylen Brown along with upperclassmen Bird, Ty Wallace, J3, Sam and still was losing to Oregon State..

BearGreg said:

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mdbear said:

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I think the primary reason was that Missouri offered Martin an incredibly favorable contract. It is a seven year deal for $21 million with approximately $600k a year in additional incentives. The key is that Missouri cannot terminate the contract in the first three years, and if it did so after year three, Martin would receive a $6 million buyout. Thus, Martin was guaranteed approximately $15 million regardless of how the team performed. In contrast, Martin was making less than $2 million a year at Cal with a maximum buyout at that time of $2 million. He could have tried to renegotiate with Cal, but there is no way we would have matched the Missouri deal for a coach who has only been to the NCAA tournament twice in his career. Finally, keep in mind that the cost of living at Missouri is much lower than the Bay Area. There were perhaps some push factors as well (no contract at Cal for a long time, no dedicated practice facility, and incredibly slow clearing of his name in the sexual harassment investigation), but I can only speculate how much they were a reason for his departure.

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This is a very good summary. Add in Martin's challenges with Admissions and his growing recognition that the style of offense he wanted to play relied on a type of athlete that were not numerous enough relative to our academic requirements for him to be successful and you had a Coach looking for a reason to leave.

Two weeks prior to getting an offer from Missouri, Martin was 100% confident that Moore would be back and he was also confident about a graduate transfer big man being added to the Baker, JHD, Sueing and Anticevich class.

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Thanks Bear Greg. I am glad to see that someone reads my posts. I think your point about admissions is a good one. Unlike college football, there are many strong basketball programs with excellent academics (Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Michigan, Wake Forest, etc) so there is a lot of competition for the relatively few players who can meet our admissions standards and succeed in a major conference.

I still hope he never wins again. Yes, I'm a bad person.

It takes all types... I still accept you.

KoreAmBear said:

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parentswerebears said:

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I could tell that Charlie wasn't really happy here when, after a game where he had a ton of assists, I congratulated him. He was polite, said thank you, but the look in his eyes was not one of rejoicing in a victory and a career performance. He just looked sad and distant, like he just wasn't into it.

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Well perhaps he was thinking about his father.

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Appreciating the humanity of your response

EricBear said:

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Just think of all the ties he's had to throw out in the last 7 years.

NewYorkCityBear said:

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EricBear said:

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Just think of all the ties he's had to throw out in the last 7 years.

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He's a recycler...

NewYorkCityBear said:

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EricBear said:

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Just think of all the ties he's had to throw out in the last 7 years.

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And sport coats. Though this one may be a keeper.

Just the other day I saw martin walking on the street laughing hysterically. I asked him why he was laughing. He explained that he was on the way to the bank.

The amount he coached up Rabb and Jaylen: 0

Seems him working for 2 years under the MOU and the Hufnegal stuff showed him he downside of Cal.

Tell me that if you were in a similar situation, living in a great place making lots of $$$ but w some admin messups and then you get a call to come home (an even better place) and make more $$$ and perhaps serve a purpose beyond hoops. Do you stay or go home?

Tell me you're staying, that this is NOT business or career decision but rather picking sides on the playground. That you would screw your family and future. I have some old Russkie dossiers and pee tapes that I'm selling. Cheap price for you!

Another Bear said:

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Seems him working for 2 years under the MOU and the Hufnegal stuff showed him he downside of Cal.

Tell me that if you were in a similar situation, living in a great place making lots of $$$ but w some admin messups and then you get a call to come home (an even better place) and make more $$$ and perhaps serve a purpose beyond hoops. Do you stay or go home?

Tell me you're staying, that this is NOT business or career decision but rather picking sides on the playground. That you would screw your family and future. I have some old Russkie dossiers and pee tapes that I'm selling. Cheap price for you!

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I'm not sure you understand. I don't know one season ticket holder that isn't relieved he is gone. He is not a good coach. The beef is with the wreckage he left behind and the way he humiliated the University in the NIT game vs Bakersfield.

I agree he's not a good coach and Bakersfield but he's gone but I don't think he humiliated the university. The admin kind of screw up things before hand with the MOU and Hufnagel. Didn't provide him cover. As usual, the street runs both ways.

4thGenCal said:

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That Ty broke his hand and Jabari's back acted up meant 40% of the starting lineup did not play (and 2 key players). Meaning that loss in the first round certainly was not Coach's fault.

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Yeah, I was not a big fan of Martin's offensive system, but I definitely give him a mulligan for that NCAA loss. Trying to win without your starting PG and best outside shooter isn't easy.