Good? Bad? Meh? Who cares? Bball?
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Tim O'Toole Leaving For Pitt
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Last: 7 yr ago by helltopay1
Probably bad. The players seemed to like him. Let's get either an x's and o's expert or a recruiting ace---not one that's average at both.
Not impressed with him.
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
O'Toole coached Capel at Duke when O'Toole was an assistant there.
I do consider it somewhat of a loss for the program. Right now, what we most need in the program is some stability and continuity. Plus, O'Toole was the defense guy and it takes a few years for that to gel with players. Assistants move all the time so it shouldn't be too surprisIng especially with the prior relationship between Capel and O'Toole. But still, it would have been preferable to keep him around.
I do consider it somewhat of a loss for the program. Right now, what we most need in the program is some stability and continuity. Plus, O'Toole was the defense guy and it takes a few years for that to gel with players. Assistants move all the time so it shouldn't be too surprisIng especially with the prior relationship between Capel and O'Toole. But still, it would have been preferable to keep him around.
TheSouseFamily said:
O'Toole coached Capel at Duke when O'Toole was an assistant there.
I do consider it somewhat of a loss for the program. Right now, what we most need in the program is some stability and continuity. Plus, O'Toole was the defense guy and it takes a few years for that to gel with players. Assistants move all the time so it shouldn't be too surprisIng especially with the prior relationship between Capel and O'Toole. But still, it would have been preferable to keep him around.
Yes, good points. O'Toole was certainly the zone guy, will be interesting to see how that aspect of Cal's defense evolves.
He probably sees the handwriting on the wall and chose to get out now to be sure he has a job next year
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
Leaving on the first day of the signing period is usually not the best timesocaliganbear said:
Good? Bad? Meh? Who cares? Bball?
Cal's defense last may not have been the worst defense in Cal's history, but it is certainly was the worse looking Cal defense I've seen, going back to the 1950s. How much of this defense was due to the influence of Tim O'Toole, we will never know. Did he coach only the zone defense Cal used? Or did he have a hand in influencing the strategy of having the most inexperienced team in Cal history to begin the season with a full court press, with some man-to-man alternating with zone in the half-court? We just don't know, and we will find out more this coming season.
O'Toole had some visible good points, namely his passion and dedication, and his obvious rapport with the players, all of which were important. However, this team underachieved, in my opinion, and he has to take ownership of some of that, especially if he orchestrated any of the defenses that Cal used.
It was a terrible decision to have inexperienced players open a season with a full court press as the main feature of a team's defense. This is not hindsight. I said this on day one, before the season even started. What should have been done was start with a simple man-to-man, working in help defense concepts, all the while evaluating and teaching the personnel. A full court press should only have been used once the man-to-man had been firmly in place and become dependable, or only used when the team fell far enough behind to warrant trying it to catch up. You can't teach a baby to run before you teach them to walk.
Zones are good and have their place. You use them in certain situations, against certain personnel matchups, against certain types of offenses. O'Toole is a disciple of Boeheim at Syracuse, but Syracuse has been exclusively using that zone for many years. How many teams use Boeheim's zone defense as their main or only defense? Very few. And if any other team has used it to achieve great success, I have yet to hear of it. I just don't believe O'Toole and his concepts were a good fit for Cal, just as I feel Wyking Jones strategy of using a full court press last season was a bad fit for Cal, given the lack of experience in nearly all his players.
O'Toole had some visible good points, namely his passion and dedication, and his obvious rapport with the players, all of which were important. However, this team underachieved, in my opinion, and he has to take ownership of some of that, especially if he orchestrated any of the defenses that Cal used.
It was a terrible decision to have inexperienced players open a season with a full court press as the main feature of a team's defense. This is not hindsight. I said this on day one, before the season even started. What should have been done was start with a simple man-to-man, working in help defense concepts, all the while evaluating and teaching the personnel. A full court press should only have been used once the man-to-man had been firmly in place and become dependable, or only used when the team fell far enough behind to warrant trying it to catch up. You can't teach a baby to run before you teach them to walk.
Zones are good and have their place. You use them in certain situations, against certain personnel matchups, against certain types of offenses. O'Toole is a disciple of Boeheim at Syracuse, but Syracuse has been exclusively using that zone for many years. How many teams use Boeheim's zone defense as their main or only defense? Very few. And if any other team has used it to achieve great success, I have yet to hear of it. I just don't believe O'Toole and his concepts were a good fit for Cal, just as I feel Wyking Jones strategy of using a full court press last season was a bad fit for Cal, given the lack of experience in nearly all his players.
Great post. Chock full of good points.SFCityBear said:
Cal's defense last may not have been the worst defense in Cal's history, but it is certainly was the worse looking Cal defense I've seen, going back to the 1950s. How much of this defense was due to the influence of Tim O'Toole, we will never know. Did he coach only the zone defense Cal used? Or did he have a hand in influencing the strategy of having the most inexperienced team in Cal history to begin the season with a full court press, with some man-to-man alternating with zone in the half-court? We just don't know, and we will find out more this coming season.
O'Toole had some visible good points, namely his passion and dedication, and his obvious rapport with the players, all of which were important. However, this team underachieved, in my opinion, and he has to take ownership of some of that, especially if he orchestrated any of the defenses that Cal used.
It was a terrible decision to have inexperienced players open a season with a full court press as the main feature of a team's defense. This is not hindsight. I said this on day one, before the season even started. What should have been done was start with a simple man-to-man, working in help defense concepts, all the while evaluating and teaching the personnel. A full court press should only have been used once the man-to-man had been firmly in place and become dependable, or only used when the team fell far enough behind to warrant trying it to catch up. You can't teach a baby to run before you teach them to walk.
Zones are good and have their place. You use them in certain situations, against certain personnel matchups, against certain types of offenses. O'Toole is a disciple of Boeheim at Syracuse, but Syracuse has been exclusively using that zone for many years. How many teams use Boeheim's zone defense as their main or only defense? Very few. And if any other team has used it to achieve great success, I have yet to hear of it. I just don't believe O'Toole and his concepts were a good fit for Cal, just as I feel Wyking Jones strategy of using a full court press last season was a bad fit for Cal, given the lack of experience in nearly all his players.
Sure seems like the full court press idea came from Jones. We now need an Assistant with lots of basketball knowledge and wisdom and it's gotta be somebody that Wyking trusts. Maybe this describes the guy from Pepperdine? (I have no idea.)
Agree. Several of us questioned the defensive strategy before the season due to experience and match for our team. Syracuse recruits players specifically for that defense.... quick, long defenders
I liked how we adjusted later in the year
Also our 2-3 zone trap also was used against the wrong team/players early-to-mid season (too long)
I think o'toole was part of our defensive problem
I also wonder if his leaving was somewhat mutual
When you have a bad season, sometimes you want to make changes, and since he was lead assistant this gives cal an opportunity to really strengthen the Xs & Os coaching
Wish him well
I liked how we adjusted later in the year
Also our 2-3 zone trap also was used against the wrong team/players early-to-mid season (too long)
I think o'toole was part of our defensive problem
I also wonder if his leaving was somewhat mutual
When you have a bad season, sometimes you want to make changes, and since he was lead assistant this gives cal an opportunity to really strengthen the Xs & Os coaching
Wish him well
SFCityBear said:
Cal's defense last may not have been the worst defense in Cal's history, but it is certainly was the worse looking Cal defense I've seen, going back to the 1950s. How much of this defense was due to the influence of Tim O'Toole, we will never know. Did he coach only the zone defense Cal used? Or did he have a hand in influencing the strategy of having the most inexperienced team in Cal history to begin the season with a full court press, with some man-to-man alternating with zone in the half-court? We just don't know, and we will find out more this coming season.
O'Toole had some visible good points, namely his passion and dedication, and his obvious rapport with the players, all of which were important. However, this team underachieved, in my opinion, and he has to take ownership of some of that, especially if he orchestrated any of the defenses that Cal used.
It was a terrible decision to have inexperienced players open a season with a full court press as the main feature of a team's defense. This is not hindsight. I said this on day one, before the season even started. What should have been done was start with a simple man-to-man, working in help defense concepts, all the while evaluating and teaching the personnel. A full court press should only have been used once the man-to-man had been firmly in place and become dependable, or only used when the team fell far enough behind to warrant trying it to catch up. You can't teach a baby to run before you teach them to walk.
Zones are good and have their place. You use them in certain situations, against certain personnel matchups, against certain types of offenses. O'Toole is a disciple of Boeheim at Syracuse, but Syracuse has been exclusively using that zone for many years. How many teams use Boeheim's zone defense as their main or only defense? Very few. And if any other team has used it to achieve great success, I have yet to hear of it. I just don't believe O'Toole and his concepts were a good fit for Cal, just as I feel Wyking Jones strategy of using a full court press last season was a bad fit for Cal, given the lack of experience in nearly all his players.
I don't know if he was any good or not but he followed George Costanza's sage advance about always looking busy at work. Tim was always super jacked on the bench and looked like the hardest work'in man in show bidness.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
Me neither. His departure is no loss. Gives us a chance to upgrade the coaching staff.oskidunker said:
Not impressed with him.
Throwing bounces passes that were never attempted in any game I saw.
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
I think the impact of O'Toole's departure will best be measured by his replacement.
HoopDreams said:
Agree. Several of us questioned the defensive strategy before the season due to experience and match for our team. Syracuse recruits players specifically for that defense.... quick, long defenders
I liked how we adjusted later in the year
Also our 2-3 zone trap also was used against the wrong team/players early-to-mid season (too long)
I think o'toole was part of our defensive problem
I also wonder if his leaving was somewhat mutual
When you have a bad season, sometimes you want to make changes, and since he was lead assistant this gives cal an opportunity to really strengthen the Xs & Os coaching
Wish him wellSFCityBear said:
Cal's defense last may not have been the worst defense in Cal's history, but it is certainly was the worse looking Cal defense I've seen, going back to the 1950s. How much of this defense was due to the influence of Tim O'Toole, we will never know. Did he coach only the zone defense Cal used? Or did he have a hand in influencing the strategy of having the most inexperienced team in Cal history to begin the season with a full court press, with some man-to-man alternating with zone in the half-court? We just don't know, and we will find out more this coming season.
O'Toole had some visible good points, namely his passion and dedication, and his obvious rapport with the players, all of which were important. However, this team underachieved, in my opinion, and he has to take ownership of some of that, especially if he orchestrated any of the defenses that Cal used.
It was a terrible decision to have inexperienced players open a season with a full court press as the main feature of a team's defense. This is not hindsight. I said this on day one, before the season even started. What should have been done was start with a simple man-to-man, working in help defense concepts, all the while evaluating and teaching the personnel. A full court press should only have been used once the man-to-man had been firmly in place and become dependable, or only used when the team fell far enough behind to warrant trying it to catch up. You can't teach a baby to run before you teach them to walk.
Zones are good and have their place. You use them in certain situations, against certain personnel matchups, against certain types of offenses. O'Toole is a disciple of Boeheim at Syracuse, but Syracuse has been exclusively using that zone for many years. How many teams use Boeheim's zone defense as their main or only defense? Very few. And if any other team has used it to achieve great success, I have yet to hear of it. I just don't believe O'Toole and his concepts were a good fit for Cal, just as I feel Wyking Jones strategy of using a full court press last season was a bad fit for Cal, given the lack of experience in nearly all his players.
Just asking: Just as leaving on the day signing begins is bad, is that not also a bad time to try to find a HIGHLY skilled and knowledgeable coach?
The crafty move would be to hire a top recruit's father for that assistant spot. If WJ successfully pulls off that maneuver I'll be very impressed.
Wyking draining the swamp?
Press was terrible at the beginning of the season but i must admit it did work when used selectively towards the end of the season. Not much else worked, but the press was selectively effective.
What is the possibility we get someone like Dennis Gates. Great recruiter, young coach or someone in that mold.
From what I have heard, that is the type of guy we should expect.Gkhoury2325 said:
What is the possibility we get someone like Dennis Gates. Great recruiter, young coach or someone in that mold.
parentswerebears said:From what I have heard, that is the type of guy we should expect.Gkhoury2325 said:
What is the possibility we get someone like Dennis Gates. Great recruiter, young coach or someone in that mold.
Do you have any names by any chance? Are you able to reveal them if u do? Thanks!
I wish. I am as in the dark as you. Just heard that one piece.Gkhoury2325 said:parentswerebears said:From what I have heard, that is the type of guy we should expect.Gkhoury2325 said:
What is the possibility we get someone like Dennis Gates. Great recruiter, young coach or someone in that mold.
Do you have any names by any chance? Are you able to reveal them if u do? Thanks!
Got it thank you. Hope we get someone that makes a difference on the coaching staff
Gkhoury2325 said:
What is the possibility we get someone like Dennis Gates. Great recruiter, young coach or someone in that mold.
I'd be absolutely shocked if Gates next job wasn't a D1 HC gig.
Quote:
Wyking Jones and Jim Knowlton would be wise to attempt and convince Scott Cross ex HC of UT - Arlington to join the California Bears as their Associate Head Coach. .
Scott Cross, age 44, has significant coaching experience and demonstrated leadership skills at UT-Arlington over the past twelve seasons w/l 225 - 161. The thought of engaging a young vibrant Associate Head Coach who would bring financial flexibility and extreme motivation is exciting to contemplate. His hire would have the potential of being a win/win/win for California basketball, Wyking Jones and Scott Cross.
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/article208089564.html
"In the last three seasons at UTA, Cross has a combined record of 72-33."
"The University of Texas at Arlington and former men's basketball head coach Scott Cross have reached a settlement.
On Monday, March 26, UTA athletic director Jim Baker announced the firing of Cross and his staff. But because he was reassigned, he technically remained an employee of the university.
Cross's attorney, Joey McCutchen of the law firm McCutchen & Sexton, said Cross will be paid $400,000 of the $762,000 left on the remaining two years of his contract. The settlement amount will not be reduced if he is hired by another school."
"In 2016, he was given a contract extension that was supposed to run through the 2019-20 season. In the 2016-17 season, Cross led UTA to a school-record 27 wins. But the program still cost the university more than $1 million, according to an analysis of financial reports obtained by the Star-Telegram through the state's Open Records Act."
Vineyardview said:
"In 2016, he was given a contract extension that was supposed to run through the 2019-20 season. In the 2016-17 season, Cross led UTA to a school-record 27 wins. But the program still cost the university more than $1 million, according to an analysis of financial reports obtained by the Star-Telegram through the state's Open Records Act."
Sounds like a good fit with Cal's athletic department.
Vineyardview said:Quote:
Wyking Jones and Jim Knowlton would be wise to attempt and convince Scott Cross ex HC of UT - Arlington to join the California Bears as their Associate Head Coach. .
Scott Cross, age 44, has significant coaching experience and demonstrated leadership skills at UT-Arlington over the past twelve seasons w/l 225 - 161. The thought of engaging a young vibrant Associate Head Coach who would bring financial flexibility and extreme motivation is exciting to contemplate. His hire would have the potential of being a win/win/win for California basketball, Wyking Jones and Scott Cross.
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/article208089564.html
"In the last three seasons at UTA, Cross has a combined record of 72-33."
"The University of Texas at Arlington and former men's basketball head coach Scott Cross have reached a settlement.
On Monday, March 26, UTA athletic director Jim Baker announced the firing of Cross and his staff. But because he was reassigned, he technically remained an employee of the university.
Cross's attorney, Joey McCutchen of the law firm McCutchen & Sexton, said Cross will be paid $400,000 of the $762,000 left on the remaining two years of his contract. The settlement amount will not be reduced if he is hired by another school."
"In 2016, he was given a contract extension that was supposed to run through the 2019-20 season. In the 2016-17 season, Cross led UTA to a school-record 27 wins. But the program still cost the university more than $1 million, according to an analysis of financial reports obtained by the Star-Telegram through the state's Open Records Act."
He's already taken. Hired yesterday, but can't remember who.
Edit: TCU.
Take Cross's name off the O'Toole search list. The obvious best candidates don't last long it was just announced that Cross was hired by TCU.
Hey O'Toole, learn how to spell "Berkeley."
He,s a tool....
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
Apparently, he hasn't learned to spell Stanfurd either.Chapman_is_Gone said:
Hey O'Toole, learn how to spell "Berkeley."
Hey Chapman: Learn proper grammar. Learn the proper use of commas.
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