New Premium Basketball Board

BearGreg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
Haas Pavilion Premium Message Board

Join us there for all basketball related content and conversations.

Bear Insider board will focus more on football and wider Athletic Department discussions.
joe amos yaks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Men's and Women's CBB.
Go Bears!
ColoradoBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Which board is for LeBron v Warriors tho?
BearGreg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Staff
ColoradoBear said:

Which board is for LeBron v Warriors tho?
That's the Hope vs. Reality board over at MagicJohnson.com
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Are we still invited to post our speculations here?
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What a time to start a Premium Basketball Board.

Right after the worst ever in the history men basketball season.

With a "coach" who ....

Right before another disasterous basketball season with the "coach" who ...

In life, timing is everything.

Go Bears!

UrsaMajor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbear80 said:

What a time to start a Premium Basketball Board.

Right after the worst ever in the history men basketball season.

With a "coach" who ....

Right before another disasterous basketball season with the "coach" who ...

In life, timing is everything.

Go Bears!


Actually dosage is more important than timing, and you are overdosing.
petalumabear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Calbear80.....
Your posts on the WC have been informative, very well written and great reads. Why is it that when you post about Mens hoops or football (during the Dykes era) they were such abominations?
Please stop.
BeachedBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
petalumabear said:

Calbear80.....
Your posts on the WC have been informative, very well written and great reads. Why is it that when you post about Mens hoops or football (during the Dykes era) they were such abominations?
Please stop.
Most WC matches are pretty early morning. Maybe two or three bloody marys are down, by the last match. Football and Basketball, on the other hand, are much later in the day. A lot more time to imbibe and churn some over impassioned insanity. It happens to the best of us - more so to some than others.

:gobeers
75bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Calbear80 is too far gone.... it's best to let him go peacefully.
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BeachedBear said:

petalumabear said:

Calbear80.....
Your posts on the WC have been informative, very well written and great reads. Why is it that when you post about Mens hoops or football (during the Dykes era) they were such abominations?
Please stop.
Most WC matches are pretty early morning. Maybe two or three bloody marys are down, by the last match. Football and Basketball, on the other hand, are much later in the day. A lot more time to imbibe and churn some over impassioned insanity. It happens to the best of us - more so to some than others.

:gobeers


Thank you for your compliment about my posts about WC.

Regarding my posts about Cal MBB (during this current "coach") and Cal Football (during Coach Dykes era), I don't like it when my beloved Golden Bears go worest ever 2-17 in MBB in Pac-12 and 1-11 in Football.

Do you like it when Cal goes 2-17 in MBB or 1-11 in Football?

I call it the way I see it. Being dead last in MBB or Football is nothing to be proud of.

The realty is that things are now really bad with Cal MBB, no matter how much anyone tries to sugar coat it.

On the other hand, hopefully things are getting better with Cal Football under Coach Wilcox (although, none of us could be overjoyed about 14 three-star recruits and no four or five star recruits in the 2019 class)..

Go Bears!

calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BeachedBear said:

petalumabear said:

Calbear80.....
Your posts on the WC have been informative, very well written and great reads. Why is it that when you post about Mens hoops or football (during the Dykes era) they were such abominations?
Please stop.
Most WC matches are pretty early morning. Maybe two or three bloody marys are down, by the last match. Football and Basketball, on the other hand, are much later in the day. A lot more time to imbibe and churn some over impassioned insanity. It happens to the best of us - more so to some than others.

:gobeers


Way to deflect the discussion from the record of our beloved MBB Golden Bears under the current "coach" by making snide comments.

FYI, most of my posts about WC were while I was in Russia attending WC where most of the games were at 6 PM or 9 PM local time. Also, you'd be interested to know that it has been more than a year since I had a drop of hard spirits.

My friend, focus on the worst ever 2-17 Pac-12 record of our MBB and the current "coach" where the focus of discussion belongs.

Go Bears!

BeachedBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbear80 said:




Way to deflect the discussion from the record of our beloved MBB Golden Bears under the current "coach" by making snide comments.

Deflect? maybe. Beloved? certainly! Snide? also maybe.

FYI, most of my posts about WC were while I was in Russia attending WC where most of the games were at 6 PM or 9 PM local time. Also, you'd be interested to know that it has been more than a year since I had a drop of hard spirits.

Attending in Russia? Envious. Interested? Not much. Recovering? Glad to hear it!

My friend, focus on the worst ever 2-17 Pac-12 record of our MBB and the current "coach" where the focus of discussion belongs.

Friends? Hope so. Focus? It's been beat to death. Belongs? Well past that point. Now, we just need to wait and see how the season starts out.

Go Bears!

Poetic? Poor attempt, I'll admit. I know I shouldn't poke the bear, but its slow. But back to your point of focus on MBB coaching. Since it's off-off-off season, I'll lay some odds for you to chew on.

1. Duplicate of last season's ineptness - a.k.a. "****storm" - 25%
2. Showing enough progress to continue recruiting hopes - a.k.a. "polished turd" - 66%
3. Impressive showing with underrated roster - a.k.a. "diamond in the rough" - 9%

I'm being generous with #3. I really don't think there is a chance in heck that it will happen. I also think the interesting aspect of #1 - and what I'd like to hear your cogent response about - is what/when/how things happen if last year is duplicated. Is it an early exit? after the season? sometime mid-year? Will there be an incident, like Lou Campanelli? Or a scandal, like Bozeman?

:gojonesandprovemewrongjustsoIcanseeuswin
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I am hopeful that our new Chancellor and new AD will clean up the mess created by Mike Williams and bring back respect to Cal MBB and Cal Athletics.

And, hopefully, sooner rather than later.

Go Bears!
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I, like you, love Cal particularly Cal Football and Cal MBB.

Here is my pledge:

I will write a six digit donation check to Cal MBB if the current "coach" reaches an overall record of .500 in Pac-12 by the end of next season (.500 is a mediocre record and at this point mediocre is all I am asking for).

Go Bears!
superbear99
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Are 6 digits dollars and cents?

Or are you a big swinging donor and donating 100K plus.
Chapman_is_Gone
How long do you want to ignore this user?
joe amos yaks said:

Men's and Women's CBB.
Go Bears!
I certainly hope the admins didn't make the mistake of combining MBB and WBB on one board. Nothing is worse than having to wade through WBB posts.
Chapman_is_Gone
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbear80 said:

I, like you, love Cal particularly Cal Football and Cal MBB.

Here is my pledge:

I will write a six digit donation check to Cal MBB if the current "coach" reaches an overall record of .500 in Pac-12 by the end of next season (.500 is a mediocre record and at this point mediocre is all I am asking for).

Go Bears!
Are we talking U.S. dollars here, or rubles? 100,000 rubles = $1,582.

Either way, you have nothing to worry about. There's no way you will have to pay on that wager.

If the new AD has any balls, WJ will be honorably discharged at the end of this season. Thanks for wasting two years of my Cal fandom, Mike Williams.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearGreg said:

Haas Pavilion Premium Message Board

Join us there for all basketball related content and conversations.

Bear Insider board will focus more on football and wider Athletic Department discussions.
Are you saying that the structure subscribers previously saw was one "Insider" board and all football, basketball, and Admin type stuff was in there together? While now basketball will be spun off to its own separate board?
Thus, now 2 Insider boards?
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
superbear99 said:

Are 6 digits dollars and cents?

Or are you a big swinging donor and donating 100K plus.


US Dollars. Six figures. All dollars (e.g. $100,000). Ready to go.

But, please read my pledge very carefully. I am 99.9999% sure that my bank account is safe.

Go Bears!
Civil Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbear80 said:

I, like you, love Cal particularly Cal Football and Cal MBB.

Here is my pledge:

I will write a six digit donation check to Cal MBB if the current "coach" reaches an overall record of .500 in Pac-12 by the end of next season (.500 is a mediocre record and at this point mediocre is all I am asking for).

Go Bears!
You'll donate $100k if Cal goes 16-2 in conference next year? That's very brave of you.
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
This has gone off topic of introducing a new board, but since you are so surprised at the offer, let me suggest it's the same as picking the Cleveland Cavaliers to win the NBA championship.
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

This has gone off topic of introducing a new board, but since you are so surprised at the offer, let me suggest it's the same as picking the Cleveland Cavaliers to win the NBA championship.


More accutately, for the current "coach" to reach .500 (i.e. be mediocire), he has to go 17-2 in Pac-12 in the upcoming season (because he was 2-17 in Pac-12 last season).

I bet 100,000 to 1 against that.

I doubt this guy can even achieve 9-9 this upcoming season, or any season for that matter, before he is let go.

We all know what the solution is.

The only question is how soon: a few games into the season, half-way through the season or the end of upcoming season?

Why prolong the agony?

Go Bears!
UrsaMajor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbear80 said:

concordtom said:

This has gone off topic of introducing a new board, but since you are so surprised at the offer, let me suggest it's the same as picking the Cleveland Cavaliers to win the NBA championship.


More accutately, for the current "coach" to reach .500 (i.e. be mediocire), he has to go 17-2 in Pac-12 in the upcoming season (because he was 2-17 in Pac-12 last season).

I bet 100,000 to 1 against that.

I doubt this guy can even achieve 8-8 this upcoming season, or any season for that matter, before he is let go.

We all know what the solution is.

The only question is how soon: a few games into the season, half-way through the season or the end of upcoming season?

Why prolong the agony?

Go Bears!
I'd bet a million to 1 against, since the Pac-12 season is only 18 games long.
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
UrsaMajor said:

calbear80 said:

concordtom said:

This has gone off topic of introducing a new board, but since you are so surprised at the offer, let me suggest it's the same as picking the Cleveland Cavaliers to win the NBA championship.


More accutately, for the current "coach" to reach .500 (i.e. be mediocire), he has to go 17-2 in Pac-12 in the upcoming season (because he was 2-17 in Pac-12 last season).

I bet 100,000 to 1 against that.

I doubt this guy can even achieve 9-9 this upcoming season, or any season for that matter, before he is let go.

We all know what the solution is.

The only question is how soon: a few games into the season, half-way through the season or the end of upcoming season?

Why prolong the agony?

Go Bears!
I'd bet a million to 1 against, since the Pac-12 season is only 18 games long.


No, Each Pac-12 team plays 18 regular season Pac-12 games plus a minimum of one Pac-12 Tournament game for a total of minimum 19 games. That is how the current "coach" was worst ever in the history 2-17 against the Pac-12 teams last year (for the record,, 2-16 would have also been worst ever in the history).

Go Bears!
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
UrsaMajor said:

calbear80 said:

concordtom said:

This has gone off topic of introducing a new board, but since you are so surprised at the offer, let me suggest it's the same as picking the Cleveland Cavaliers to win the NBA championship.


More accutately, for the current "coach" to reach .500 (i.e. be mediocire), he has to go 17-2 in Pac-12 in the upcoming season (because he was 2-17 in Pac-12 last season).

I bet 100,000 to 1 against that.

I doubt this guy can even achieve 9-9 this upcoming season, or any season for that matter, before he is let go.

We all know what the solution is.

The only question is how soon: a few games into the season, half-way through the season or the end of upcoming season?

Why prolong the agony?

Go Bears!
I'd bet a million to 1 against, since the Pac-12 season is only 18 games long.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Dear Calbear 80: "This mess" was not created by Mike Williams: "The mess" was created by the Regents/et all who gave us Nick Dirks: Nick then gave us Martin & mike Williams. mike was/is an affable, well-meaning financial guru who was hopelessly ill-equipped to be the AD at Cal. The jury is still out on WJ as far as I am concerned. I want two more full years before I'm ready to pass judgment. He currently has three (3) terrific recruiters on his staff. If he is prematurely terminated, don't forget that all these terrific recruiters will also be gone. Do you really want that to happen???Do you really want to pull the plug prematurely and start all over again without having all the available evidence???It's hard enough convincing talented recruiters to come to Cal in addition to convincing a talented HC to matriculate here. Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face. do you ( and you know who you are) have the patience and fairness to stay the course through the 1920-2020 season???Raise your hand if you do.
calbear80
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1, thank you for your thoughtful post. You are right about Dirk having been the wrong chiice. I do not know Mike Williams well and he maybe a jolly good fellow, but, he was a disaster as an AD.

As fas as this "coach" is concerned:

For me, 2-17 record against Pac-12 teams (all-time worst in the history) is all the evidance that I need.

What number will the five-star recruit Jordan Brown be wearing for Cal this year? Oh, he chose lesser school Reno and lesser conference rather than playing for this "coach". That is all the evidence that I need regarding recruiting abilities of this "coach" and his staff.

This "coach" was supposrd to be good at coaching big men. After he "coached" five-star superstar Marcus Lee for two years, the result was rather poor (maybe that contributed to Jordan Brown avoiding him).

This "coach" was supposed to be bringing in an impact grad transfer this year. What he brought in is some guy who averaged something like two points and one rebound a game (most of it in garbage time). Good recruiter?!! Give me a break!

This 2-17 in the coference "coach" went out and hired a 2-17 coach in a lesser conference (who was fired) as his assistance a couple of months ago. "great" minds truly think alike. That is all the evidance I need about the abilities of this "coach" and his staff.

Yes, there were excuses for last year!s disaster. And, I assure you, there will be more excuses for the upcoming season.

There is a Middle Easton saying which roughly says, "You can tell a good year from it's Spring". 2-17 (worst ever in the history) tells me all I need to know.

Can you (or anyone) show me one single college MBB coach who went 2-17 in the conference in his first year and went on to coach that college to national championships? To make your (or anyone's) effort of researching this worthwhile, for each one example that you find, I will immediately donate $1,000 to Cal Athletics. I bet you cannot find even one example.

We all know what the solution is.

Why prolong the agony?

Go Bears!
oski003
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Rollie Massimmo
Norm Sloan
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
helltopay1 said:

The jury is still out on WJ as far as I am concerned. I want two more full years before I'm ready to pass judgment. He currently has three (3) terrific recruiters on his staff. If he is prematurely terminated, don't forget that all these terrific recruiters will also be gone. Do you really want that to happen???Do you really want to pull the plug prematurely and start all over again without having all the available evidence???It's hard enough convincing talented recruiters to come to Cal in addition to convincing a talented HC to matriculate here. Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face. do you ( and you know who you are) have the patience and fairness to stay the course through the 1920-2020 season???Raise your hand if you do.
I'll agree with you, but the jury for me is out on team chemistry, comraderie, spirit. I didn't like what I saw from behind the bench the couple nights I was there this past season. I wanna see guys smiling (including the head coach), having fun, and just being into it. I want to see that he can take a group of people and make them a unified unit. If we have that, we'll do well enough for me.
UrsaMajor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
oski003 said:

Rollie Massimmo
Norm Sloan
Forget it; Sloan was 2-12 in his first year, and Massimino was 7-19. Calbears80 will weasel out by saying neither was EXACTLY 2-17.
BeachedBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
calbear80 said:

Why prolong the agony?

Although I don't share Calbear80's level of apparent personal disdain, I tend to agree that WJ is not the future of Cal Basketball. But his last question (above) is really a good one.

There ARE a few reasons why we probably need to "prolong the agony". They all really come down to optics. And more importantly, what type of coach could we get to replace WJ, based on those optics.

I personally view WJ's hiring as an example of these optics in play. At that time, many other coaches probably would have looked at the situation and said to themselves . . .

Why would I want to work for such an AD?
Why would I want to be part of an athletic department that hasn't sorted out its accounting and financial plan?
Why would I want to work at a school that has hostile elements and an unsupportive chancellor?
Why would I want to start with such a depleted roster?

And I haven't even gotten to the compensation part!

A year later these have all been addressed to one extent or another (Thanks to Chancellor Carol, IMHO). But the optics for this year are not so great as well.

First, if WJ gets replaced by Knowlton at any point in time with a proven coach (that he has a prior relationship with) - then I think the optics are irrelevant. Knowlton is the new AND he has a window to put his stamp on things. It would need to be a pretty proven coach, however. Also, if WJ gets caught doing something bad - optics don't matter.

Barring that, if Knowlton cans WJ early or mid season, then other coaches are going to still question the expectations and reality of the administration and Cal will have to 'settle' again with WJ's replacement.

We are in the boat we are in. I'm OK with playing out the season with WJ, providing whatever vocal support I can and hope for the best (but stay realistic). After the season is over, a better judgment can be made and the optics will look OK if Knowlton says something like "WJ did not move the program along as fast as we had agreed, so he is being replaced".

If WJ wins a 5 or fewer conference games or embarrasses Cal during OOC, then we should not give him another year because of possible recruiting hype. I think that is a poor rationale to retain a coach who was not able to accomplish much with given talent.
UrsaMajor
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BeachedBear said:

calbear80 said:

Why prolong the agony?

Although I don't share Calbear80's level of apparent personal disdain, I tend to agree that WJ is not the future of Cal Basketball. But his last question (above) is really a good one.

There ARE a few reasons why we probably need to "prolong the agony". They all really come down to optics. And more importantly, what type of coach could we get to replace WJ, based on those optics.

I personally view WJ's hiring as an example of these optics in play. At that time, many other coaches probably would have looked at the situation and said to themselves . . .

Why would I want to work for such an AD?
Why would I want to be part of an athletic department that hasn't sorted out its accounting and financial plan?
Why would I want to work at a school that has hostile elements and an unsupportive chancellor?
Why would I want to start with such a depleted roster?

And I haven't even gotten to the compensation part!

A year later these have all been addressed to one extent or another (Thanks to Chancellor Carol, IMHO). But the optics for this year are not so great as well.

First, if WJ gets replaced by Knowlton at any point in time with a proven coach (that he has a prior relationship with) - then I think the optics are irrelevant. Knowlton is the new AND he has a window to put his stamp on things. It would need to be a pretty proven coach, however. Also, if WJ gets caught doing something bad - optics don't matter.

Barring that, if Knowlton cans WJ early or mid season, then other coaches are going to still question the expectations and reality of the administration and Cal will have to 'settle' again with WJ's replacement.

We are in the boat we are in. I'm OK with playing out the season with WJ, providing whatever vocal support I can and hope for the best (but stay realistic). After the season is over, a better judgment can be made and the optics will look OK if Knowlton says something like "WJ did not move the program along as fast as we had agreed, so he is being replaced".

If WJ wins a 5 or fewer conference games or embarrasses Cal during OOC, then we should not give him another year because of possible recruiting hype. I think that is a poor rationale to retain a coach who was not able to accomplish much with given talent.
Excellent post, BB, IMO.

If WJ surprises and the team is competitive, all the better. If this year is more or less like last (e.g., 6-12 in the P12 or worse), the decision is easy. I think our problem comes if the team goes .500 or close to it overall, and something like 7-11 or even 8-10 in the P12. Then there's enough improvement to argue for continuing, but not enough to instill optimism.
helltopay1
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Dear Beached: I would be more inclined to give your post the stamp of approval if you had not closed with " given the talent Cal has." it's true that Cal does have talent ( with depth) at positions 1,2,and 3. However, the talent level at the 4 and 5 positions may very well be the worst in the Pac 12. given that serious limitation, I would argue for another year to see if WJ can both recruit and coach the 4 and 5 positions. That is what I mean when I say let's evaluate with complete information. talented kids at the 4 and 5 can do wonders for a coaches' won-lost record.
BeachedBear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
UrsaMajor said:


Excellent post, BB, IMO.

If WJ surprises and the team is competitive, all the better. If this year is more or less like last (e.g., 6-12 in the P12 or worse), the decision is easy. I think our problem comes if the team goes .500 or close to it overall, and something like 7-11 or even 8-10 in the P12. Then there's enough improvement to argue for continuing, but not enough to instill optimism.
Yup. Given a mediocre performance, I think we need to look at other aspects, such as 'eye test' on player and team development, fan experience, recruiting prospects and probably a few others. Even then, I'd expect Knowlton to develop a short list and open up lines of communication with possible replacements.
Page 1 of 2
×
Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.