OT: NBA offseason moves. Lebron to lakers, DeMarcus Cousins to Warriors!!

concordtom
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I wonder if this means that Magic Johnson et al are going to try to bring back Detroit Pistons style basketball to slow down the Warriors the way MJ was slowed down by the Bad Boys. Anyone else read that here?

They, and James, are ready to try something new.

"He wanted this team to be built very differently than the past ones that he played with," Pelinka said. "We did not want to go out and sign specialists, like 'oh, this guy can just shoot.' We wanted tough, two-way players that could defend with a level of toughness and also make shots.
"The road to the NBA championship has to go through the team that won last year. We all know the guys up north have a special group, but one of the ways to attack what they have is with defensive toughness. I think we saw that in the Houston series with some of the players that Houston has," Pelinka continued, and he thinks the Lakers have such players now as well.
"KCP is a tough defender and shooter. Josh Hart has proven to be a pitbull of a defender, and a guy that can make shots. Rondo historically has been a tenacious tough guy. We wanted that mentality, and we identified it. Lance Stephenson, he'll agitate you, he'll get under you, he'll cause you to get out of your game. And he can play in the open court and score at the rim."

Prepare to see hard fouls, I say.
Magic, old school. And not going down without a fight.
We'll see if the league allows. Likely.
concordtom
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Well, no nibbles on that last tidbit.
How are about today's news that Isaiah Thomas has signed 1 yr deal for league min with Denver, just $2M when he thought he'd be getting a max deal. Wow.
He and Demarcus should go get a drink together.

Thomas is coming off of a four-year, $27 million deal he signed with the Celtics in 2014. Now, instead of looking at the neighborhood of $27 million annually, Thomas has been reduced to signing a prove-it deal for $2 million.
BGGB2
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Yogi Bear said:

59bear said:

My first reaction was: Pairing Cousins and Draymond is a bit like driving a bumpy road with a flask of nitroglycerin between your knees and your vehicle's shocks are shot.
It'll be interesting to see if they can control their tempers on the court.
Throw KD into the mix. Durant led the league with 5 ejections last season. (Draymond and Serge Ibaka were next with three each.) Dwight Howard, Draymond and KD were top 3 in technical fouls (17, 15 and 14).

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2017&category=MISC&group=1&sort=10&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0


concordtom
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Yogi Bear said:

59bear said:

My first reaction was: Pairing Cousins and Draymond is a bit like driving a bumpy road with a flask of nitroglycerin between your knees and your vehicle's shocks are shot.
It'll be interesting to see if they can control their tempers on the court.
I think they'll be just fine... laughing all the way home.
BGGB2
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concordtom said:

I wonder if this means that Magic Johnson et al are going to try to bring back Detroit Pistons style basketball to slow down the Warriors the way MJ was slowed down by the Bad Boys. Anyone else read that here?

They, and James, are ready to try something new.

"He wanted this team to be built very differently than the past ones that he played with," Pelinka said. "We did not want to go out and sign specialists, like 'oh, this guy can just shoot.' We wanted tough, two-way players that could defend with a level of toughness and also make shots.
"The road to the NBA championship has to go through the team that won last year. We all know the guys up north have a special group, but one of the ways to attack what they have is with defensive toughness. I think we saw that in the Houston series with some of the players that Houston has," Pelinka continued, and he thinks the Lakers have such players now as well.
"KCP is a tough defender and shooter. Josh Hart has proven to be a pitbull of a defender, and a guy that can make shots. Rondo historically has been a tenacious tough guy. We wanted that mentality, and we identified it. Lance Stephenson, he'll agitate you, he'll get under you, he'll cause you to get out of your game. And he can play in the open court and score at the rim."

Prepare to see hard fouls, I say.
Magic, old school. And not going down without a fight.
We'll see if the league allows. Likely.
Lebron is at his best when surrounded by shooters. So they go out and sign Javale McGee, Lance Stephenson, and Rajon Rondo? Huh?

None of this make any sense, so I really think this is just the Lakers' brass trying to spin a narrative after the fact around their head-scratching decisions.
puget sound cal fan
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Gutter period, hell. Oaktown and the East Bay supported the Warriors to NBA Champions starting with the Nate Thurmond, Rick Barry, Chris Mullin teams through to the present Curry-Thompson-Green-Durant aggregation. San Francisco supports a winner, though, so the Warriors will probably draw well there with a new arena. Will they forget Oakland, though?
ducky23
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Tim Kawakami did a piece today in the athletic breaking down how much the warriors will be able to bring in because of the chase center. Just to give you an idea, the warriors are bringing in 325million on seat licensing alone.
This does not even take into account ticket sales, merchandise, concessions, parking, Beyonc concerts, etc.

Thus, kawakami makes the argument that the warriors aren't worried about going to 300 million in salary to keep the core four together

In this light, the decision to move to chase seems like a no brainer to me if that's going to allow the dubs to keep winning.

Also, in theory, if the dubs continue to win and the chase center continues to be a cash cow, there's no reason the dubs can't stay competitive indefinitely.

The warriors franchise is uniquely situated in an area that is wealthier than almost anywhere else in the country (so it's an area that can afford to pay for stupid high tickets) . It's also in a location that is desirable for nba players to locate.

Yes, all things come to an end eventually. But the warriors have given themselves a better chance to succeed than any other team right now.
RichyBear
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What would p*ss me off, would not be the Warriors moving to Chase center, but if they changed the team name from 'Golden State Warriors' to 'San Francicso Warriors'. That would be a slap in the face to Oakland.
When the Warriors move from Philadelphia to San Francisco they were called the 'San Francisco Warriors'. They played their home games in the Cow Palace or the Civic Center. They then played 5 home games in Oakland, the more each year, until they moved to Oakland. but, instead of being the 'Oakland Warriors' they became the 'Golden State Warriors'.
BTW-if they changed the name to 'Frisco warriors', I could live with that.
philbert
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RichyBear said:

What would p*ss me off, would not be the Warriors moving to Chase center, but if they changed the team name from 'Golden State Warriors' to 'San Francicso Warriors'. That would be a slap in the face to Oakland.
When the Warriors move from Philadelphia to San Francisco they were called the 'San Francisco Warriors'. They played their home games in the Cow Palace or the Civic Center. They then played 5 home games in Oakland, the more each year, until they moved to Oakland. but, instead of being the 'Oakland Warriors' they became the 'Golden State Warriors'.
BTW-if they changed the name to 'Frisco warriors', I could live with that.
they aren't changing the name per Rick Welts.
Yogi Bear
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ducky23 said:

Also, in theory, if the dubs continue to win and the chase center continues to be a cash cow, there's no reason the dubs can't stay competitive indefinitely.
The reason they likely don't stay competitive indefinitely is that it's hard to be in position to acquire superstars in or before their prime. It's fairly rare for teams to give up high first round picks in trade and most of the first round picks have lottery protection attached to them (the Nets trade with the Celtics being an exception). And even if you have a lot of money available to spend in free agency, it's hard to build a team that way because you're in competition with all the other teams with cap space.

The way the Warriors were built with finding stars at the 7th, 11th, and 35th pick is unusual in the history of the NBA. Most dynasties are built around guys drafted very early in the draft. It will be hard for them to pull off that feat again when their current stars get old and start to decline.

All the more reason to enjoy the hell out of their current run because it's gonna be damn hard to even win one once they have to change the cast of characters.
GMP
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Yogi Bear said:

ducky23 said:

Also, in theory, if the dubs continue to win and the chase center continues to be a cash cow, there's no reason the dubs can't stay competitive indefinitely.
The reason they likely don't stay competitive indefinitely is that it's hard to be in position to acquire superstars in or before their prime. It's fairly rare for teams to give up high first round picks in trade and most of the first round picks have lottery protection attached to them (the Nets trade with the Celtics being an exception). And even if you have a lot of money available to spend in free agency, it's hard to build a team that way because you're in competition with all the other teams with cap space.

The way the Warriors were built with finding stars at the 7th, 11th, and 35th pick is unusual in the history of the NBA. Most dynasties are built around guys drafted very early in the draft. It will be hard for them to pull off that feat again when their current stars get old and start to decline.

All the more reason to enjoy the hell out of their current run because it's gonna be damn hard to even win one once they have to change the cast of characters.
Right. Came to make mostly this point - there's still a salary cap. They can go over the cap to keep their own guys, but they can't go over the cap to sign new max free agents. So, while a willingness to spend $300M will allow them to keep these four guys together, it won't allow them to spend $300M on free agents when this core ages or breaks apart.

One question for Ducky: Was Kawakami saying they're going to get $300M per year in seat licensing, or is that a one-time fee?
concordtom
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GMP said:


Right. Came to make mostly this point - there's still a salary cap. They can go over the cap to keep their own guys, but they can't go over the cap to sign new max free agents. So, while a willingness to spend $300M will allow them to keep these four guys together, it won't allow them to spend $300M on free agents when this core ages or breaks apart.


So, when does a guy become "their" guy?
Will Demarcus Cousins become a warrior that they can exceed the cap for?

Also, the penalty for going over really is sharp very quickly, as I understand it. Like, double on the first few, then triple, then quadruple. So, at some point it becomes VERY much an incentive to not go hog wild.
concordtom
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Yogi Bear said:

ducky23 said:

Also, in theory, if the dubs continue to win and the chase center continues to be a cash cow, there's no reason the dubs can't stay competitive indefinitely.
The reason they likely don't stay competitive indefinitely is that it's hard to be in position to acquire superstars in or before their prime. It's fairly rare for teams to give up high first round picks in trade and most of the first round picks have lottery protection attached to them (the Nets trade with the Celtics being an exception). And even if you have a lot of money available to spend in free agency, it's hard to build a team that way because you're in competition with all the other teams with cap space.

The way the Warriors were built with finding stars at the 7th, 11th, and 35th pick is unusual in the history of the NBA. Most dynasties are built around guys drafted very early in the draft. It will be hard for them to pull off that feat again when their current stars get old and start to decline.

All the more reason to enjoy the hell out of their current run because it's gonna be damn hard to even win one once they have to change the cast of characters.
Well said. This is what I've been thinking, too.
This season is going to be a laugher with Cousins joining, but I could see it breaking apart in the NOT too distant future.
Cousins is a 1-yr rental.
Curry's quickness is already fading.
Durant or Klay go elsewhere in free agency.
Draymond is not a scorer and looks like a lesser player without curry and Klay lighting it up.

Where is the fresh new blood? Or is Lacob going to be able to woo endless free agents? I'm not holding my breath.
concordtom
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Lots of talk about changing NBA rules to stop the Warriors dynasty, but that is really stupid. How come there has been no talk of such a thing as a result of Lebron going to the Lakers, who over the year get so many NBA stars in free agency.

The Warriors were for forever a dog of the league. The commish ought to wisely recognize its great to add another team to the list of desireable franchises:
Lakers and celtics, because you know their histories
Knicks, because they are NY
Bulls once had an aura.
Rockets with Olajuwon, too.
Spurs too, but I doubt they'll ever rebuild

The Warriors being dominant right now are very good for the league, methinks. I think I saw how ratings were way up, no? People love a king, to chase and to try and knock down. So then the next champion also becomes great.
OaktownBear
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concordtom said:

Yogi Bear said:

ducky23 said:

Also, in theory, if the dubs continue to win and the chase center continues to be a cash cow, there's no reason the dubs can't stay competitive indefinitely.
The reason they likely don't stay competitive indefinitely is that it's hard to be in position to acquire superstars in or before their prime. It's fairly rare for teams to give up high first round picks in trade and most of the first round picks have lottery protection attached to them (the Nets trade with the Celtics being an exception). And even if you have a lot of money available to spend in free agency, it's hard to build a team that way because you're in competition with all the other teams with cap space.

The way the Warriors were built with finding stars at the 7th, 11th, and 35th pick is unusual in the history of the NBA. Most dynasties are built around guys drafted very early in the draft. It will be hard for them to pull off that feat again when their current stars get old and start to decline.

All the more reason to enjoy the hell out of their current run because it's gonna be damn hard to even win one once they have to change the cast of characters.
Well said. This is what I've been thinking, too.
This season is going to be a laugher with Cousins joining, but I could see it breaking apart in the NOT too distant future.
Cousins is a 1-yr rental.
Curry's quickness is already fading.
Durant or Klay go elsewhere in free agency.
Draymond is not a scorer and looks like a lesser player without curry and Klay lighting it up.

Where is the fresh new blood? Or is Lacob going to be able to woo endless free agents? I'm not holding my breath.



I get that you think Curry is fading , seemingly based on a handful of playoff games after coming back from two injuries. He has shown no drop off in production. Many thought he was MVP of the championship. Frankly, I think you convinced yourself of this point a couple games into his return and you like being the first to have discovered this "truth". I don't think his performance over the season justifies your conclusion, especially not expressed so repeatedly and with such surety. His statistics certainly don't.
OaktownBear
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concordtom said:

GMP said:


Right. Came to make mostly this point - there's still a salary cap. They can go over the cap to keep their own guys, but they can't go over the cap to sign new max free agents. So, while a willingness to spend $300M will allow them to keep these four guys together, it won't allow them to spend $300M on free agents when this core ages or breaks apart.


So, when does a guy become "their" guy?
Will Demarcus Cousins become a warrior that they can exceed the cap for?

Also, the penalty for going over really is sharp very quickly, as I understand it. Like, double on the first few, then triple, then quadruple. So, at some point it becomes VERY much an incentive to not go hog wild.


Short answer is he becomes "your guy" after 3 years on your team.
BeachedBear
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concordtom said:

Lots of talk about changing NBA rules to stop the Warriors dynasty, but that is really stupid. How come there has been no talk of such a thing as a result of Lebron going to the Lakers, who over the year get so many NBA stars in free agency.


Really? from who?

If it's from fans of other teams, expect it, laugh and take it as a compliment.

If it's from opposing teams beat writers . . . same.

If it's from TV talking heads . . . same.

If it's from a couple of owners . . . mostly the same, depending on the owner. I think most are happy that they sell out when the W's come to town. Similar to what happened with your other list of dynasties (every owner loved Jordan or Showtime! - great for ticket sales).

If it's from Silver and/or the majority of owners, then I'd give it a bit of credence, but not worry. By the time they sort it out, this group will have aged out.


gobears
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I think Lacob will continue to foot the luxury tax until the "original 3" stay..... and they are in tier 1 hunt (finals) yearly...

Original 3=Curry, Thompson, Green..

Lacob knows that earlier than expected, GSW got their 1st ring and a few years later, now have 3 in 4, and odds on favorite now to get 4 in 5..

Sure, Curry's 2017/18 injuries is of concern, but no where near Derrick Rose level and his drop in quickness. Curry's threat from downtown range will continue to spread the D much further out that has and will continue to create more O opps for GSW players..... I expect Curry to remain at elite level (All Star teams, all NBA) for the next few years based on what I seen from his 2017/18 season..

I expect Kerr to continue to manage MPG and selective days off to help add prime time years to their key players... granted, GSW expect to continue to play 20 plus games after the 82 are done yearly so minute management remains a key priority for GSW...

Will this GSW run get them on the NBA greatest teams Mount Rushmore list?? Not sure, but Lacob is fully aware that this GSW run can get the team on Mt Rushmore looking down (and not up) , so he will keep this run going until it ends naturally.

goGSW
goBears

concordtom
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OaktownBear said:

concordtom said:

Yogi Bear said:

ducky23 said:

Also, in theory, if the dubs continue to win and the chase center continues to be a cash cow, there's no reason the dubs can't stay competitive indefinitely.
The reason they likely don't stay competitive indefinitely is that it's hard to be in position to acquire superstars in or before their prime. It's fairly rare for teams to give up high first round picks in trade and most of the first round picks have lottery protection attached to them (the Nets trade with the Celtics being an exception). And even if you have a lot of money available to spend in free agency, it's hard to build a team that way because you're in competition with all the other teams with cap space.

The way the Warriors were built with finding stars at the 7th, 11th, and 35th pick is unusual in the history of the NBA. Most dynasties are built around guys drafted very early in the draft. It will be hard for them to pull off that feat again when their current stars get old and start to decline.

All the more reason to enjoy the hell out of their current run because it's gonna be damn hard to even win one once they have to change the cast of characters.
Well said. This is what I've been thinking, too.
This season is going to be a laugher with Cousins joining, but I could see it breaking apart in the NOT too distant future.
Cousins is a 1-yr rental.
Curry's quickness is already fading.
Durant or Klay go elsewhere in free agency.
Draymond is not a scorer and looks like a lesser player without curry and Klay lighting it up.

Where is the fresh new blood? Or is Lacob going to be able to woo endless free agents? I'm not holding my breath.


I get that you think Curry is fading , seemingly based on a handful of playoff games after coming back from two injuries. He has shown no drop off in production. Many thought he was MVP of the championship. Frankly, I think you convinced yourself of this point a couple games into his return and you like being the first to have discovered this "truth". I don't think his performance over the season justifies your conclusion, especially not expressed so repeatedly and with such surety. His statistics certainly don't.
It's not that I like being first to state something.
It's that I don't want to be bummed out. I'm hedging my emotions.
I like Curry and how he's changed basketball for the better!!

I offer this video not to suggest the Warriors aren't going to the finals, but to suggest, hey, what if we've seen the peak of curry.
Not that he's washed up, but the arc has hit its zenith. I hope I'm wrong!! And I wish you wouldn't be so accusatory.

concordtom
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OaktownBear said:



Short answer is he becomes "your guy" after 3 years on your team.
Ah.
Thank you!
concordtom
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BeachedBear said:

concordtom said:

Lots of talk about changing NBA rules to stop the Warriors dynasty, but that is really stupid. How come there has been no talk of such a thing as a result of Lebron going to the Lakers, who over the year get so many NBA stars in free agency.


Really? from who?

If it's from fans of other teams, expect it, laugh and take it as a compliment.

If it's from opposing teams beat writers . . . same.

If it's from TV talking heads . . . same.

If it's from a couple of owners . . . mostly the same, depending on the owner. I think most are happy that they sell out when the W's come to town. Similar to what happened with your other list of dynasties (every owner loved Jordan or Showtime! - great for ticket sales).

If it's from Silver and/or the majority of owners, then I'd give it a bit of credence, but not worry. By the time they sort it out, this group will have aged out.



Agree, agree, agree.
concordtom
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gobears said:

I think Lacob will continue to foot the luxury tax until the "original 3" stay..... and they are in tier 1 hunt (finals) yearly...

Original 3=Curry, Thompson, Green..

Lacob knows that earlier than expected, GSW got their 1st ring and a few years later, now have 3 in 4, and odds on favorite now to get 4 in 5..

Sure, Curry's 2017/18 injuries is of concern, but no where near Derrick Rose level and his drop in quickness. Curry's threat from downtown range will continue to spread the D much further out that has and will continue to create more O opps for GSW players..... I expect Curry to remain at elite level (All Star teams, all NBA) for the next few years based on what I seen from his 2017/18 season..

I expect Kerr to continue to manage MPG and selective days off to help add prime time years to their key players... granted, GSW expect to continue to play 20 plus games after the 82 are done yearly so minute management remains a key priority for GSW...

Will this GSW run get them on the NBA greatest teams Mount Rushmore list?? Not sure, but Lacob is fully aware that this GSW run can get the team on Mt Rushmore looking down (and not up) , so he will keep this run going until it ends naturally.

goGSW
goBears


Even after curry declines as a primary ball handler due to quickness, he can still park it outside and just be a shooter for a long time in the NBA. Ankle breaking penetration requires quickness that fades early in a career, like an NFL RB. But shooting lasts much longer. Defense, though, could become an issue. Yes, curry will hang tough for the immediate future!

I'm going to nominate this 2019 team as belonging on the Rushmore list before they've even played 1 game. The team already belongs there but with Cousins? Let's see if they can do the impossible: Fo-Fo-Fo-Fo. I think they could but won't want to embarrass the NBA by doing so.
BGGB2
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RichyBear said:

What would p*ss me off, would not be the Warriors moving to Chase center, but if they changed the team name from 'Golden State Warriors' to 'San Francicso Warriors'. That would be a slap in the face to Oakland.
When the Warriors move from Philadelphia to San Francisco they were called the 'San Francisco Warriors'. They played their home games in the Cow Palace or the Civic Center. They then played 5 home games in Oakland, the more each year, until they moved to Oakland. but, instead of being the 'Oakland Warriors' they became the 'Golden State Warriors'.......
Before the 1971 season, Warriors owner Franklin Mieuli decided he was going to split the team's home games between the Bay Area and San Diego. Mieuli was trying to keep the franchise afloat, as it had not drawn well since moving to the Bay Area from Philly. They couldn't play games in SD while named the SF Warriors. So the Golden State Warriors name was born. Source:

https://www.kqed.org/news/11648034/how-san-diego-helped-name-the-golden-state-warriors

In short, the team name was not a slap at Oakland.
BGGB2
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concordtom said:

Yogi Bear said:

ducky23 said:

Also, in theory, if the dubs continue to win and the chase center continues to be a cash cow, there's no reason the dubs can't stay competitive indefinitely.
The reason they likely don't stay competitive indefinitely is that it's hard to be in position to acquire superstars in or before their prime. It's fairly rare for teams to give up high first round picks in trade and most of the first round picks have lottery protection attached to them (the Nets trade with the Celtics being an exception). And even if you have a lot of money available to spend in free agency, it's hard to build a team that way because you're in competition with all the other teams with cap space.

The way the Warriors were built with finding stars at the 7th, 11th, and 35th pick is unusual in the history of the NBA. Most dynasties are built around guys drafted very early in the draft. It will be hard for them to pull off that feat again when their current stars get old and start to decline.

All the more reason to enjoy the hell out of their current run because it's gonna be damn hard to even win one once they have to change the cast of characters.
Well said. This is what I've been thinking, too.
This season is going to be a laugher with Cousins joining, but I could see it breaking apart in the NOT too distant future.
Cousins is a 1-yr rental.
Curry's quickness is already fading.
Durant or Klay go elsewhere in free agency.
Draymond is not a scorer and looks like a lesser player without curry and Klay lighting it up.

Where is the fresh new blood? Or is Lacob going to be able to woo endless free agents? I'm not holding my breath.

Curry does not rely on elite athleticism, so his game should age very well.
Durant can opt out in summer of 2019. If they win another title this coming season, I don't see why he'd leave. In that case, more likely he signs another 1+1 deal next summer, and they do the whole thing over again.
Klay will be an UFA in summer of 2019. He's said on numerous occasions that he wants to stay, and has hinted broadly that he'd leave money on the table to do so.
Draymond becomes an UFA in 2020. I could see him testing the market. As you've alluded to, he is probably a lot more valuable to the GSW than he would be on a lesser team. Thus, the market for his services may be disappointing (to him).
Anthony Davis is frequently mentioned as a potential target for the Warriors. He becomes an UFA in 2021. Might be acquirable in trade in summer of 2020, if the Pels fear he could leave them with nothing in return.

In the likely event the Warriors retain at least one of Durant or Klay next summer, I see them as title favorites at least two more seasons. (Unless Durant moves in 2019 to another contender.) They increased the gap with Houston this summer. Only Boston seems like any kind of threat right now. The health questions around Kryie and Gordon Hayward make them iffier than the Warriors.
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