Now that Pyramid Brewey, Brennan's and Spenger's are closed, I'm hoping I could get some dinner recommendations for pre game dinner tomorrow before the USF game at 8pm. I'm aware of Pappys and Henry's, so I'm looking for other potential spots. Thanks!

Lavals. Northside

I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

MoragaBear said:

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If you want a great burger with quality ingredients and close to Haas, Super Duper Burger on the corner of Telegraph and Durant is awesome.

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Love Super Duper Burger.

Revival. Downtown. I liked their ribs. 5-10 minute walk to Haas.

MoragaBear said:

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If you want a great burger with quality ingredients and close to Haas, Super Duper Burger on the corner of Telegraph and Durant is awesome.

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+1, it is tasty.

Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

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State champ in brisket? Two questions Mr. Civil:
1. Which restaurants have the best brisket in CA?
2. Why does mine always come out dry.

My absolute favorite brisket in the Bay Area is from Memphis Minnie's on Height in SF. The owner, who was somewhat of a BBQ legend, passed away a few years ago but the quality didn't suffer. However I did see a while back the restaurant went up for sale, and I haven't been back since then.

Believe it or not, dry brisket is often due to not cooking it long enough. At around 170* almost all the water in the brisket has been wrung out (why well-done steaks are dry), so you need to cook it long enough to convert all the connective tissue and collagen inside the brisket to gelatin, to give it its moistness. The trick with brisket is to pull it off at its peak moistness and tenderness. Going with a high-grade brisket with lots of marbling will give you a bigger window. I typically start checking for tenderness on a prime grade brisket (Costco has 'em) at about 204*. Wagyu briskets at about 206* internal.

Some good places in the East Bay?

So have you tried Franklin BBQ in Austin? If so, what did you think?

Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

---

Good post to explain simple stuff that most don't understand. I didn't either years ago.
And it's funny - cows don't eat meat, they are herbivores, so advertising that they ate a vegetarian diet is ridiculous.
From a taste standpoint, you are correct that folks prefer marbled beef. But from a health standpoint, it's a disaster! Consumers should be aware of that as well!!!

Good luck on your grilling. I wonder if there could ever be a grass-fed only category.
Some docs I've seen on grain finished make it sound completely disgusting, as the cows would die from the grain diet (designed to add massive weight) if they weren't first slaughtered.

Civil Bear said:

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My absolute favorite brisket in the Bay Area is from Memphis Minnie's on Height in SF. The owner, who was somewhat of a BBQ legend, passed away a few years ago but the quality didn't suffer. However I did see a while back the restaurant went up for sale, and I haven't been back since then.

Believe it or not, dry brisket is often due to not cooking it long enough. At around 170* almost all the water in the brisket has been wrung out (why well-done steaks are dry), so you need to cook it long enough to convert all the connective tissue and collagen inside the brisket to gelatin, to give it its moistness. The trick with brisket is to pull it off at its peak moistness and tenderness. Going with a high-grade brisket with lots of marbling will give you a bigger window. I typically start checking for tenderness on a prime grade brisket (Costco has 'em) at about 204*. Wagyu briskets at about 206* internal.

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Interesting. I've only tried it twice, both times fairly disastrously. The last time I tried it, I cooked a whole prime brisket from, you guessed it, Costco. I started the cook at about 11PM (26" weber kettle). The kettle was holding at about 230F when I went to bed and when I woke up it was still in the 215 range. By about 9AM the IT was 200*, so I wrapped it in foil, then a beach towel, then put it in a cooler for about 4 hours. I figured IT would continue to rise after pulling it off but didn't check. It was still warm when I took it out of the cooler but the meat was in some places really really dry. Which is a bummer because after trimming a whole brisket is what, 8-10 pounds of meat?

Any suggestions? Do you wrap in foil during the cook? Add liquid to the foil pack? I recently started wrapping ribs in foil after an hour of smoke and I think they are moister.

I'm gonna try Memphis Minnie's next time I'm in SF. Thanks for the tip.

philbert said:

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So have you tried Franklin BBQ in Austin? If so, what did you think?

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Franklin's brisket is great. Simple salt and pepper rub, cooked over post oak, and finished wrapped in butcher paper. That said, waiting an entire morning in line for BBQ will be a one time thing for me.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Civil Bear said:

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My absolute favorite brisket in the Bay Area is from Memphis Minnie's on Height in SF. The owner, who was somewhat of a BBQ legend, passed away a few years ago but the quality didn't suffer. However I did see a while back the restaurant went up for sale, and I haven't been back since then.

Believe it or not, dry brisket is often due to not cooking it long enough. At around 170* almost all the water in the brisket has been wrung out (why well-done steaks are dry), so you need to cook it long enough to convert all the connective tissue and collagen inside the brisket to gelatin, to give it its moistness. The trick with brisket is to pull it off at its peak moistness and tenderness. Going with a high-grade brisket with lots of marbling will give you a bigger window. I typically start checking for tenderness on a prime grade brisket (Costco has 'em) at about 204*. Wagyu briskets at about 206* internal.

---

Interesting. I've only tried it twice, both times fairly disastrously. The last time I tried it, I cooked a whole prime brisket from, you guessed it, Costco. I started the cook at about 11PM (26" weber kettle). The kettle was holding at about 230F when I went to bed and when I woke up it was still in the 215 range. By about 9AM the IT was 200*, so I wrapped it in foil, then a beach towel, then put it in a cooler for about 4 hours. I figured IT would continue to rise after pulling it off but didn't check. It was still warm when I took it out of the cooler but the meat was in some places really really dry. Which is a bummer because after trimming a whole brisket is what, 8-10 pounds of meat?

Any suggestions? Do you wrap in foil during the cook? Add liquid to the foil pack? I recently started wrapping ribs in foil after an hour of smoke and I think they are moister.

I'm gonna try Memphis Minnie's next time I'm in SF. Thanks for the tip.

---

Sounds like it just needed more time. Yes, I like to wrap in foil with about 12oz of marinade once the bark is set and the color is right. A can of Campbell's beef consume and a tablespoon of Worcestershire Sauce works well. By wrapping you forfeit a crunchy bark, but the flavor remains, and you end up retaining a lot of moisture. I'd also cook at 250 minimum. I'm currently cooking wagyu's at 325 with good results.

MoragaBear said:

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Had brisket at Everett and Jones recently and it was really bad. Almost like roast beef with bbq sauce.

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Rule of thumb is any place serving up BBQ smothered in sauce is doing so for a reason. That said, I have liked E&J's sausage in the past. Who remembers Flint's in Berkeley? They were the exception to the rule!

Ribs were good at evj a few weeks ago. Berkeley location. No soft drinks as they are protesting city soda tax. Water $1

Big C said:

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Some good places in the East Bay?

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It's been too long for me to give a fair report. The last good brisket I had in the east bay was from Bo's in Lafayette and that was over 20 years ago. Smoke in Berkeley and Slow Hand in Pleasant Hill are on my list of places to try.

Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

---

Actually, "grass-fed" beef can be finished on grain as long as it's grass fed for most of its life. If you want no grain (meaning usually corn), you need "grass-fed" and "grass-finished."

UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

---

Actually, "grass-fed" beef can be finished on grain as long as it's grass fed for most of its life. If you want no grain (meaning usually corn), you need "grass-fed" and "grass-finished."

---

You contradicted yourself a bit. Nearly all cattle are grass-fed. The current marketing standard though is to label cattle not finished on grain as "grass-fed". I haven't come across anything labeled as "grass-finished".

Civil Bear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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Had brisket at Everett and Jones recently and it was really bad. Almost like roast beef with bbq sauce.

---

Rule of thumb is any place serving up BBQ smothered in sauce is doing so for a reason. That said, I have liked E&J's sausage in the past. Who remembers Flint's in Berkeley? They were the exception to the rule!

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I always thought the quality of the meat at Flint's was somewhat inconsistent. Usually very good, occasionally not so good.

Then there was the Flint's sauce. The mild was too mild, the hot was too hot (the burning lip sensation wasn't really pleasant). Medium? The medium was hit and miss, too often it was either no different from hot or no different from mild.

But on a lucky day, when both the meat was good and the sauce was just the right level of hot, Flint's was as good as it gets.

Civil Bear said:

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MoragaBear said:

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Had brisket at Everett and Jones recently and it was really bad. Almost like roast beef with bbq sauce.

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Rule of thumb is any place serving up BBQ smothered in sauce is doing so for a reason. That said, I have liked E&J's sausage in the past. Who remembers Flint's in Berkeley? They were the exception to the rule!

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Flints was great. Came out of a venerable and crusty bbq pit with slice of white bread on a paper plate . They had another joint in east oakland.

Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

---

Actually, "grass-fed" beef can be finished on grain as long as it's grass fed for most of its life. If you want no grain (meaning usually corn), you need "grass-fed" and "grass-finished."

---

You contradicted yourself a bit. Nearly all cattle are grass-fed. The current marketing standard though is to label cattle not finished on grain as "grass-fed". I haven't come across anything labeled as "grass-finished".

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I knew I wasn't just making this up. Turns out, the DoA dropped the definition of grass-fed (meaning no finishing on grain) in 2016, and now cattle finished on grains are being marketed as "grass-fed." Some producers are now using the term "grass-fed and grass-finished" to indicate their meat is really grass-fed and not finished on corn. You are right, however, that the term originally meant grass all the way through.

Civil Bear said:

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philbert said:

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So have you tried Franklin BBQ in Austin? If so, what did you think?

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Franklin's brisket is great. Simple salt and pepper rub, cooked over post oak, and finished wrapped in butcher paper. That said, waiting an entire morning in line for BBQ will be a one time thing for me.

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I wasn't willing to wait in the hot sun. We pre-ordered a month in advance. Tastiest brisket I've ever had.

UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

---

Actually, "grass-fed" beef can be finished on grain as long as it's grass fed for most of its life. If you want no grain (meaning usually corn), you need "grass-fed" and "grass-finished."

---

You contradicted yourself a bit. Nearly all cattle are grass-fed. The current marketing standard though is to label cattle not finished on grain as "grass-fed". I haven't come across anything labeled as "grass-finished".

---

I knew I wasn't just making this up. Turns out, the DoA dropped the definition of grass-fed (meaning no finishing on grain) in 2016, and now cattle finished on grains are being marketed as "grass-fed." Some producers are now using the term "grass-fed and grass-finished" to indicate their meat is really grass-fed and not finished on corn. You are right, however, that the term originally meant grass all the way through.

---

I must be dizzy or something, but I'm reading for the second time where you saying grass-fed is used to indicate cattle finished on grain and not finished on grain in the same post.

Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

---

Actually, "grass-fed" beef can be finished on grain as long as it's grass fed for most of its life. If you want no grain (meaning usually corn), you need "grass-fed" and "grass-finished."

---

You contradicted yourself a bit. Nearly all cattle are grass-fed. The current marketing standard though is to label cattle not finished on grain as "grass-fed". I haven't come across anything labeled as "grass-finished".

---

I knew I wasn't just making this up. Turns out, the DoA dropped the definition of grass-fed (meaning no finishing on grain) in 2016, and now cattle finished on grains are being marketed as "grass-fed." Some producers are now using the term "grass-fed and grass-finished" to indicate their meat is really grass-fed and not finished on corn. You are right, however, that the term originally meant grass all the way through.

---

I must be dizzy or something, but I'm reading for the second time where you saying grass-fed is used to indicate cattle finished on grain and not finished on grain in the same post.

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sounds like it's all about the finish, which is usually the case

This thread has a good chance of being the most interesting thread on this board this season.

Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

---

In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

---

Actually, "grass-fed" beef can be finished on grain as long as it's grass fed for most of its life. If you want no grain (meaning usually corn), you need "grass-fed" and "grass-finished."

---

You contradicted yourself a bit. Nearly all cattle are grass-fed. The current marketing standard though is to label cattle not finished on grain as "grass-fed". I haven't come across anything labeled as "grass-finished".

---

I knew I wasn't just making this up. Turns out, the DoA dropped the definition of grass-fed (meaning no finishing on grain) in 2016, and now cattle finished on grains are being marketed as "grass-fed." Some producers are now using the term "grass-fed and grass-finished" to indicate their meat is really grass-fed and not finished on corn. You are right, however, that the term originally meant grass all the way through.

---

I must be dizzy or something, but I'm reading for the second time where you saying grass-fed is used to indicate cattle finished on grain and not finished on grain in the same post.

---

Oops, okay, now that I'm at home I'm not so dizzy anymore. I obviously was misreading your post, and see you were saying that beef not finished on grain will sometimes say grass-fed AND grass-finished. I've never come across that, but at least I get what you are saying now. My apologies.

As I was alluding to before, "grass-fed" is a marketing tool (and not necessarily regulated by the government). Like "Certified Angus Beef", I believe there is an organization (the American Grass-fed Council or something like that), that will certify the "grass-fed" label as not finished on grain.

philbert said:

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Civil Bear said:

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philbert said:

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So have you tried Franklin BBQ in Austin? If so, what did you think?

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Franklin's brisket is great. Simple salt and pepper rub, cooked over post oak, and finished wrapped in butcher paper. That said, waiting an entire morning in line for BBQ will be a one time thing for me.

---

I wasn't willing to wait in the hot sun. We pre-ordered a month in advance. Tastiest brisket I've ever had.

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My brother-in-law lived a block away. It was good. Here in Guam Asu Smokehouse does an amazing brisket using the really flavorful smoke of tangan tangan wood.

Jackieridgle said:

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Now that Pyramid Brewey, Brennan's and Spenger's are closed, I'm hoping I could get some dinner recommendations for pre game dinner tomorrow before the USF game at 8pm. I'm aware of Pappys and Henry's, so I'm looking for other potential spots. Thanks!

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Downtown Berkeley is the way to go.
Comal
Angeline's
Cancun
Gather
Ippuku
Jupiter
Revival
Top Dog
Eureka!

Henry's is a total joke now and a terrible place to pregame. One small TV, wood paneling and low lighting....yuck

touchdownbears43 said:

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Henry's is a total joke now and a terrible place to pregame. One small TV, wood paneling and low lighting....yuck

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Agreed. The pub door is locked, so you need to enter through the lobby. The food was fine, but no atmosphere.