Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Civil Bear said:

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oskidunker said:

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I didnt like it but I dont like Grass fed beef. Chocolate Milkshake was chalking with little chocolate taste. Sauce on butgercwas very ssylty. Burger greasy and bun too small. Very salty.
I prefer Eureka if in Berkeley.

But try it. Most people like grass fed beef. I prefer The Habit.

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In the industry, "grass-fed" means not finished on grain. Super Duper claims their beef is "vegetarian-fed", which likely means it is finished on grain. "Grass-fed" beef is leaner and therefore a healthier choice than grain-fed beef but doesn't have the marbling to match up against USDA Choice or Prime grain-fed beef, let alone American or Japanese wagyu.

As a BBQ competitor (2016 CA State brisket champ), I can attest that most people prefer good grain-fed beef in blind tastings. It's juicier, more tender, and more flavorful without the gaminess.

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Actually, "grass-fed" beef can be finished on grain as long as it's grass fed for most of its life. If you want no grain (meaning usually corn), you need "grass-fed" and "grass-finished."

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You contradicted yourself a bit. Nearly all cattle are grass-fed. The current marketing standard though is to label cattle not finished on grain as "grass-fed". I haven't come across anything labeled as "grass-finished".

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I knew I wasn't just making this up. Turns out, the DoA dropped the definition of grass-fed (meaning no finishing on grain) in 2016, and now cattle finished on grains are being marketed as "grass-fed." Some producers are now using the term "grass-fed and grass-finished" to indicate their meat is really grass-fed and not finished on corn. You are right, however, that the term originally meant grass all the way through.

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I must be dizzy or something, but I'm reading for the second time where you saying grass-fed is used to indicate cattle finished on grain and not finished on grain in the same post.

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Civil:

I'm thinking this discussion isn't worth our time, but what I was trying to say is that the DoA up until 2016 said that beef labeled "grass-fed" had to be grass only. In 2016, they dropped that requirement, and now some producers are advertising as "grass-fed" beef that is "mostly" grass-fed, but finished on grain. In response, some producers are specifically saying "grass-fed AND grass-finished." You are completely right about how cattle are typically raised; it's just that marketing today involves various gradations of truth.

calumnus said:

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Jackieridgle said:

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Now that Pyramid Brewey, Brennan's and Spenger's are closed, I'm hoping I could get some dinner recommendations for pre game dinner tomorrow before the USF game at 8pm. I'm aware of Pappys and Henry's, so I'm looking for other potential spots. Thanks!

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Downtown Berkeley is the way to go.
Comal
Angeline's
Cancun
Gather
Ippuku
Jupiter
Revival
Top Dog
Eureka!

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you missed Bongo Burger at tel and Dwight

Lavals. Sometimes we go there before basketball games. For years we have seen an old guy order a large Peperoni and a liter of red wine. Wears white socks and hiking boots.

We assumed it was his pre game meal. Upon hearing the basketball game was cancelled due to smoke, I thought we should tell him. At first there was no response. Then slowley he looked up and said, No, I dont think so.

So this was not the Cal Band photographer from 1968. We were shocked.

But the pizza is good

Not exactly near Campus, but at Ashby/San Pablo, try Augie's Montreal Smoked Meats. Delicious.

https://augiesmontrealdeli.com/

roqmoq said:

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Not exactly near Campus, but at Ashby/San Pablo, try Augie's Montreal Smoked Meats. Delicious.

https://augiesmontrealdeli.com/

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I second this recommendation. Don't forget to try poutine, as well!

roqmoq said:

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Not exactly near Campus, but at Ashby/San Pablo, try Augie's Montreal Smoked Meats. Delicious.

https://augiesmontrealdeli.com/

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Thanks for the rec. I visited Montreal over the summer and was blown away at Schwartz Deli. The smoked meat was similar to pastrami in preparation, but with a different flavor profile/rub that helped bring out the beefiness of the brisket.

Civil Bear said:

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roqmoq said:

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Not exactly near Campus, but at Ashby/San Pablo, try Augie's Montreal Smoked Meats. Delicious.

https://augiesmontrealdeli.com/

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Thanks for the rec. I visited Montreal over the summer and was blown away at Schwartz Deli. The smoked meat was similar to pastrami in preparation, but with a different flavor profile/rub that helped bring out the beefiness of the brisket.

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Augie's is patterned after Schwartz. They even have photos of Schwartz Deli on the wall. For those of you who miss the smoked meats of Montreal, Augie is definitely a place to visit. Good food and very friendly people.

I oncevknew Augie Amato...

Civil Bear said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Civil Bear said:

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My absolute favorite brisket in the Bay Area is from Memphis Minnie's on Height in SF. The owner, who was somewhat of a BBQ legend, passed away a few years ago but the quality didn't suffer. However I did see a while back the restaurant went up for sale, and I haven't been back since then.

Believe it or not, dry brisket is often due to not cooking it long enough. At around 170* almost all the water in the brisket has been wrung out (why well-done steaks are dry), so you need to cook it long enough to convert all the connective tissue and collagen inside the brisket to gelatin, to give it its moistness. The trick with brisket is to pull it off at its peak moistness and tenderness. Going with a high-grade brisket with lots of marbling will give you a bigger window. I typically start checking for tenderness on a prime grade brisket (Costco has 'em) at about 204*. Wagyu briskets at about 206* internal.

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Interesting. I've only tried it twice, both times fairly disastrously. The last time I tried it, I cooked a whole prime brisket from, you guessed it, Costco. I started the cook at about 11PM (26" weber kettle). The kettle was holding at about 230F when I went to bed and when I woke up it was still in the 215 range. By about 9AM the IT was 200*, so I wrapped it in foil, then a beach towel, then put it in a cooler for about 4 hours. I figured IT would continue to rise after pulling it off but didn't check. It was still warm when I took it out of the cooler but the meat was in some places really really dry. Which is a bummer because after trimming a whole brisket is what, 8-10 pounds of meat?

Any suggestions? Do you wrap in foil during the cook? Add liquid to the foil pack? I recently started wrapping ribs in foil after an hour of smoke and I think they are moister.

I'm gonna try Memphis Minnie's next time I'm in SF. Thanks for the tip.

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Sounds like it just needed more time. Yes, I like to wrap in foil with about 12oz of marinade once the bark is set and the color is right. A can of Campbell's beef consume and a tablespoon of Worcestershire Sauce works well. By wrapping you forfeit a crunchy bark, but the flavor remains, and you end up retaining a lot of moisture. I'd also cook at 250 minimum. I'm currently cooking wagyu's at 325 with good results.

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I'll give it another try at 250 to 204 IT.

At 250, how long, generally, before the color is right to wrap, 4-5 hours? I may need to abandon my overnight cook strategy if I have to wrap it mid-cook.

Should I go out and buy an extra large width foil, given that I am trying to seal in a marinade?

How do you rest it before slicing? Wrapped or unwrapped? How long?

Thanks again for the advice!

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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I'll give it another try at 250 to 204 IT.

At 250, how long, generally, before the color is right to wrap, 4-5 hours? I may need to abandon my overnight cook strategy if I have to wrap it mid-cook.

Should I go out and buy an extra large width foil, given that I am trying to seal in a marinade?

How do you rest it before slicing? Wrapped or unwrapped? How long?

Thanks again for the advice!

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When I was cooking briskets at 250*, I'd wrap at the 5-hr mark if the bark was set and the color looked good. Depending on the size and fat content it would take about another 3 hours after that.

I use 2 sheets of the Kirkland brand heavy-duty, extra wide foil to wrap.

When I'm ready to pull the brisket off the cooker I place it in a disposable half-pan and stick it straight in a Cambro (glorified cooler), still wrapped. I like to rest for at least an hour and up to 6 hours. It will still be piping hot when you take it out.

Protip: 90 minutes before serving, carefully remove the brisket from the foil and separate the flat (lean muscle) from the point (fatty muscle) by running a knife thru the soft fat layer (the deckle). Remove all the au jus from the foil and de-fat it. Wrap the flat back in the foil with about 2/3rds of the de-fatted au jus (reserving the rest) and put it back in the cooler to rest. Cube the point into about 1" cubes and place in a disposable aluminum 1/2 pan. Use the remaining au jus to thin your favorite bbq sauce (about 4:1), and toss the cubes in the sauce. Cover the pan with foil and place back in the cooker (or 250* oven) until ready to serve. Those burnt-ends will be like gold!

Thank you CB! Going to Costco on Friday. Shopping list:

Prime brisket
Wide foil
Campbell's beef consomm

I think the foil wrap is the trick I've been missing. That, and 204* IT. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Great tips. What does it mean when the bark is "set?" How can you determine? Thanks again.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Thank you CB! Going to Costco on Friday. Shopping list:

Prime brisket
Wide foil
Campbell's beef consomm

I think the foil wrap is the trick I've been missing. That, and 204* IT. I'll let you know how it turns out.

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My pleasure. The real trick is to probe for tenderness once the flat gets to about 204*. A thermometer or toothpick should go in and out of the flat like softened butter. Almost no resistance. It's not overdone unless it crumbles when you go to slice it, and even then it would still taste good, Better to be over than under with most BBQ.

KenBurnski said:

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Great tips. What does it mean when the bark is "set?" How can you determine? Thanks again.

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Thanks. Basically, by set I mean the rub should begin to form a crust on the outside, and the color should be a nice dark mahogany, maybe even look a bit singed in a few spots. When adding the marinade to the foil, pour around the flat to make sure you don't wash away any of that nice developed bark you worked so hard for.

Thank you! Now I'm STARVING. Great thread tangent.

Civil Bear said:

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Oops, okay, now that I'm at home I'm not so dizzy anymore. I obviously was misreading your post, and see you were saying that beef not finished on grain will sometimes say grass-fed AND grass-finished. I've never come across that, but at least I get what you are saying now. My apologies.

As I was alluding to before, "grass-fed" is a marketing tool (and not necessarily regulated by the government). Like "Certified Angus Beef", I believe there is an organization (the American Grass-fed Council or something like that), that will certify the "grass-fed" label as not finished on grain.

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"Grain-fed" is a marketing tool as well, considering it's essentially "corn-fed."