He may never become a Wyking Jones supporter, but if all it takes is a good-looking Cal Bear win to calm him down, then I'm all for Wyking getting some more of these type of victories.

This is a common malady among tRump supporters on the Off Topic Board.

SFCityBear said:

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He may never become a Wyking Jones supporter, but if all it takes is a good-looking Cal Bear win to calm him down, then I'm all for Wyking getting some more of these type of victories.

---

I wouldn't spike the ball in the endzone right now if I were you.

SFCityBear said:

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He may never become a Wyking Jones supporter, but if all it takes is a good-looking Cal Bear win to calm him down, then I'm all for Wyking getting some more of these type of victories.

---

, its his Dead Week....either that or he's with Cal19 watching paint dry. In any event best not wake a sleeping bear.

would like to see a cal win against fresno state. a road win would quiet the nega bears.

It was a good win over a decent team. But let's not get carried away.

If cal goes something like 6-12 in league play, then you guys can start doing "I told you so's" and I'll be more than happy to be wrong

Yogi Bear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

He may never become a Wyking Jones supporter, but if all it takes is a good-looking Cal Bear win to calm him down, then I'm all for Wyking getting some more of these type of victories.

---

I wouldn't spike the ball in the endzone right now if I were you.

---

We could never beat SD stinkin State with Cuonzo or Monty, but Wyking has the magic touch against them. Unfortunately, that's about it. Maybe we found some things to build on.

Play Anticevich as the glue guy we desperately need.

We are offensively challenged in the half court, but it looks like we can shoot -- just live and die by the three. Might as well.

Shore up three point defense.

Btw, I really like that we are shooting FTs at a high percentage. That's good to see after some down years post Monty.

KoreAmBear said:

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We could never beat SD stinkin State with Cuonzo or Monty, but Wyking has the magic touch against them.

---

I think the "not having Kawhi Leonard" part definitely helps there.

Yogi Bear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

He may never become a Wyking Jones supporter, but if all it takes is a good-looking Cal Bear win to calm him down, then I'm all for Wyking getting some more of these type of victories.

---

I wouldn't spike the ball in the endzone right now if I were you.

---

I was hoping for a CB80 response, but yours it the closest thing to what he might have said. No one better get carried away just yet. SDSU is not that good a team this season so far, very up and down on defense, and apparently we caught them in a down mode, defensively.

Cal is a pretty easy team to prepare for, but they just showed they are capable of playing better. Opposing teams only have to stop Cal's offense from scoring 90, because Cal going to give up 80+, unless Wyking does something to plug that hole. Cal has played well offensively mainly in two games, Hampton and SDSU. So it is just a matter of stopping the things Cal was doing in those two game, keeping players from moving as they did to open, getting in passing lanes, getting them to play too fast, getting them rattled so they make poor decisions. It was impossible for SDSU to plan for Anticevich, and they clearly did not know what to do with him. The next few teams we play will not be overlooking the Aussie on the bench who seldom played before.

All I'm really saying is the conversation has changed a little from how soon Wyking Jones should be fired to maybe we should see if the team continues to look almost as good as they did in this game, and see if the defense improves enough to keep Cal in games longer. We are not likely to be shooting 50-60% and 90% on
FTs, and scoring 90 every night. On the bright side, we scored 89 points and won the boards, esscentially without Kelly, who might be our best player, according to some. But defense is what Jones has to improve a lot for this team to be competitive, and for Wyking to keep his job.

Yogi Bear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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We could never beat SD stinkin State with Cuonzo or Monty, but Wyking has the magic touch against them.

---

I think the "not having Kawhi Leonard" part definitely helps there.

---

LOL. Cuonzo had 4 guys that went to the NBA and couldn't beat them.

we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

calgo430 said:

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we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

I am a patient, optimistic fan, but we will need to show -- at the very least -- that we are improved from last year. Really, that isn't setting the bar high at all. It is a young team, but the PG is a junior (4th year out of HS) and four other guys in the rotation are in their second year in the program.

We need more games like the last one and less like St. Mary's and USF. As long as I see potential, I can wait, but we can't go out on the floor and play like crap and give what looks like sub-maximal effort. Last Saturday was a pleasant surprise, and it should be the new normal.

Go Bears!

SFCityBear said:

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He may never become a Wyking Jones supporter, but if all it takes is a good-looking Cal Bear win to calm him down, then I'm all for Wyking getting some more of these type of victories.

---

Just about 24 hours and no calbear80. Sez sump ting.

Big C said:

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calgo430 said:

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we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

I am a patient, optimistic fan, but we will need to show -- at the very least -- that we are improved from last year. Really, that isn't setting the bar high at all. It is a young team, but the PG is a junior (4th year out of HS) and four other guys in the rotation are in their second year in the program.

We need more games like the last one and less like St. Mary's and USF. As long as I see potential, I can wait, but we can't go out on the floor and play like crap and give what looks like sub-maximal effort. Last Saturday was a pleasant surprise, and it should be the new normal.

Go Bears!

---

I think you are optimistic. I think the bar is a higher one than last season, because you can't just take two experienced seniors, near-seven footers, out of the lineup, and replace them with much shorter players, one a freshman, and expect to be able to improve from last season. If you consider Vanover, you have a rotation which features 4 freshmen, when last year it featured 3 freshmen. I only count 3 second-year players in the rotation this season. I just don't trust my intuition to know what Coach Jones will do with Anticevich from game to game. He has only played rotation minutes in two games this season. In four games he never got in the game at all. Against Santa Clara, he played 12 players, and did not play Anticevich at all. All of a sudden he gets 26 minutes, and people think the rotation is now set with him in it. Last year he played against Stanford and hit a huge three, and then we hardly saw him again the rest of the season. I do agree that there are points to be made about how we should improve. the coach is likely to improve. Some of the freshmen already look as good or better than the players they are replacing. Before the SDSU game, I was almost ready to say there was a chance we don't win a conference game, even with improvement. Anticevich's game gives me some hope. The next few games should tell us more about this team, now that they see how to play offense. But the defense is weaker than last season with out KO and Lee in the middle. That is what needs improvement most, IMO.

Sorry friends, about my late response. I have been crazy busy getting ready for my upcoming trip to several exotic countries in Asia in less than 34 hours.

After a 10 country November in Europe (only one new one #125), it is going to be a 5 country December in Asia (yes, three new countries, #127, 128 and #129). It has been crazy researching and getting ready for some of these countries that most people have never heard of. Here is the good news: Europe is now finished and in Asia, every country east of Pakistan (except North Korea) will be finished by early January.

Now back to Cal MBB.

We are all happy that Cal MBB won ONE game in Berkeley. But, folks, let's keep it real. Here are a few facts (yes, I know you will hit me with Debbie Downer accusations):

1. Last year, we beat the very same SDSU (actually, a better SDSU team) in SAN DIEGO. Then, went on to finish:
. 8-24 overall, and
. 2-17 against Pac-12 opponents.

2. SDSU is not a very good team this year, likely, not as good as last years's team.

3. SDSU is unranked and is only 5-4 this year having lost to the likes of University of San Diego (a small religious school) by double digit right before playing Cal.

4. As a Pac-12 team, and with Pac-12 resources, we should beat non Power 5/6 teams. The fact that some are celebrating a Cal MBB victory over SDSU says a lot about the lowly state of Cal MBB.

5. Cal went undefeated at home just two or three years ago going something like 17-0 at home. The fact that some are celeberatinfmg a home victory over SDSU this year says a lot about how far Cal MBB has fallen.

6. SDSU was short handed in various ways during the game against Cal including some of their key players being in foul trouble. We were fortunate that we hit some unlikely three pointers and pulled out a win.

7. Cal MBB is now only 3-5 after having played most of their easiest games. We have lost by double digit to a few lesser schools.

8. Coach Joe Kapp after losing to WSU in mid-80's said, "We just got run over by a moped and some trucks are coming". That is how I feel when I look at Cal's upcoming Pac-12 schedule.

9. The Guy Mike Williams Hired As MBB "coach" is:
. 11-30 overall with many double digit losses to lesser opponents
. 2-17 against Pac-12 opponents

10. Maybe, we should hold off on that victory parade until we see more results from this team.

I am on the record that I will make a US$100,000 donation to Cal Athletics if the Guy Mike Williams Hired As MBB "coach" reaches .500 overal in Pac-12 before the end of this season. I am re-committing to that pledge.

Folks, .500 is a mediocre coaching record and that is the least that should be expected from our coach. This guy is currently 2-17 against Pac-12 opponents (less than 11% winning percentage). OK, some argue that he is only 2-16 (11% winning percentage) which is still horrible.

Go Bears!

calgo430 said:

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we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Team definitely did play better yesterday but let's not forget we barely beat a SDSU team that lost to USD. Let's see if he can put up this performance against FSU or any other P12 teams.

panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Congrats we BARELY beat a horrible SDSU team that just lost to USD. We also got blown out by USF. Sorry, until Wyking wins against a top team and doesn't finish with less than 4 conference wins, I'm still on the Fire Wyking train.

---

Hell, even if he'd beaten Wichita State last year, would that still make you want him as coach? Unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak that clearly isn't gonna happen, there's nothing he could do that would make me want to retain him.

The minimum I am looking for is a coach who can win 50% of the games against his peers (Pac-12 opponents).

The Guy Mike Williams Hired As MBB "coach" currently has won less than 11% of the games against Pac-12 opponent.

11% winning percentage is an F grade in any school, let alone at the #1 Public University in the World.

Go Bears!

Yogi Bear said:

---

panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Congrats we BARELY beat a horrible SDSU team that just lost to USD. We also got blown out by USF. Sorry, until Wyking wins against a top team and doesn't finish with less than 4 conference wins, I'm still on the Fire Wyking train.

---

Hell, even if he'd beaten Wichita State last year, would that still make you want him as coach? Unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak that clearly isn't gonna happen, there's nothing he could do that would make me want to retain him.

---

That's the thing. The bar is set pretty damn low for him. And even with it set so low, I know he wont meet it because he's a garbage coach.

People here are delusional if they think Wyking is the man to "develop" these guys. He has NO track record of doing so and has failed in multiple areas as a HC. Why do people believe in this guy as our coach?

EricBear said:

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panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

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we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Team definitely did play better yesterday but let's not forget we barely beat a SDSU team that lost to USD. Let's see if he can put up this performance against FSU or any other P12 teams.

---

USD is 8-2.

This guy's data has them at 55:

https://haslametrics.com/ratings.php

KenPom has them at 86:

https://kenpom.com/

Pretty good team actually.

---

Cool, USD is a "pretty good team actually."

Not sure I understand why USD being a pretty good team is applicable to us. We both beat SDSU, but they destroyed them while we barely won.

Meanwhile they barely beat a Colorado team that we are probably going to lose to, got destroyed by UW and are about to play UO.

Unless USD played a team that was good and won, them being a "pretty good team" right now doesnt mean anything in relation to Cal.

Yogi Bear said:

---

panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

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we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Congrats we BARELY beat a horrible SDSU team that just lost to USD. We also got blown out by USF. Sorry, until Wyking wins against a top team and doesn't finish with less than 4 conference wins, I'm still on the Fire Wyking train.

---

Hell, even if he'd beaten Wichita State last year, would that still make you want him as coach? Unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak that clearly isn't gonna happen, there's nothing he could do that would make me want to retain him.

---

Personally, this is the only point worth discussing about Jones tenure IMHO. At the end of the season, a coach needs to be put in place that is likely to be the long term solution for Cal MBB. I don't see giving a learning coach a third season, simply because there is some improvement. For those that are 'hoping' that the recruiting will make the 2019/2020 version a medioce P12 team with a 10-8 record . . . I think your missing the boat and aren't thinking about this long term.

So, what does Jones need to do this season? He needs to IMPRESS. He needs to show that this team has turned a corner. He needs to show that this team is one that opponents fear. He needs to show that this team thinks it will win every game it plays, even if it is down at half time.

He needs to show that the ONLY thing this team needs, is a couple more pieces. NOT luck, NOT hope, NOT an easy schedule, NOT a down year in the P12, NOT shooting 40/50/90. If the non-conf play was better, then I may be more lenient, but based on where we're at now; anything short of running the remainder of the non-conf schedule and better than .500 in P12 play, a win in the P12 tourney and an invite to at least the NIT. means Jones is NOT the long term solution for Cal MBB.

BTW - I think Knowlton gets this and Jones gets this as well. This is not a personal attack on Jones at all. He is simply in over his head. There is a reason that 300 D1 basketball teams DON'T win 25 games each year and go to the sweet 16. It's a very difficult challenge.

CB80--which countries are you visiting? I was in Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan this past summer (well, late summer). Absolutely loved Samarkand, Bukhara and Khiva. Great hiking north of Tashkent and outside of Bishkek, if you're going there. btw, the peaches of Samarkand are as delicious as advertised.

EricBear said:

---

panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Team definitely did play better yesterday but let's not forget we barely beat a SDSU team that lost to USD. Let's see if he can put up this performance against FSU or any other P12 teams.

---

USD is 8-2.

This guy's data has them at 55:

https://haslametrics.com/ratings.php

KenPom has them at 86:

https://kenpom.com/

Pretty good team actually.

---

Pesky Facts...

BeachedBear said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Congrats we BARELY beat a horrible SDSU team that just lost to USD. We also got blown out by USF. Sorry, until Wyking wins against a top team and doesn't finish with less than 4 conference wins, I'm still on the Fire Wyking train.

---

Hell, even if he'd beaten Wichita State last year, would that still make you want him as coach? Unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak that clearly isn't gonna happen, there's nothing he could do that would make me want to retain him.

---

Personally, this is the only point worth discussing about Jones tenure IMHO. At the end of the season, a coach needs to be put in place that is likely to be the long term solution for Cal MBB. I don't see giving a learning coach a third season, simply because there is some improvement. For those that are 'hoping' that the recruiting will make the 2019/2020 version a medioce P12 team with a 10-8 record . . . I think your missing the boat and aren't thinking about this long term.

So, what does Jones need to do this season? He needs to IMPRESS. He needs to show that this team has turned a corner. He needs to show that this team is one that opponents fear. He needs to show that this team thinks it will win every game it plays, even if it is down at half time.

He needs to show that the ONLY thing this team needs, is a couple more pieces. NOT luck, NOT hope, NOT an easy schedule, NOT a down year in the P12, NOT shooting 40/50/90. If the non-conf play was better, then I may be more lenient, but based on where we're at now; anything short of running the remainder of the non-conf schedule and better than .500 in P12 play, a win in the P12 tourney and an invite to at least the NIT. means Jones is NOT the long term solution for Cal MBB.

BTW - I think Knowlton gets this and Jones gets this as well. This is not a personal attack on Jones at all. He is simply in over his head. There is a reason that 300 D1 basketball teams DON'T win 25 games each year and go to the sweet 16. It's a very difficult challenge.

---

I don't know, I think if he can still get us to 13-17/6-12 this season, he buys himself another year (where we would set the bar higher, of course). Meanwhile, we're trying to get the dedicated practice facility taken care of, so we can attract better candidates.

More games like SDSU, less like St. Mary's/USF, that's what I'm looking for.

My question would be ,what kind of offenses do the rest of the Non Conference teams play? Many said we were successful against San Diego Stinkin State because they play the same offense as we do. Would be interesting to see how a Grant might do against a team like USF , if there is one left on the schedule.

Big C said:

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BeachedBear said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Congrats we BARELY beat a horrible SDSU team that just lost to USD. We also got blown out by USF. Sorry, until Wyking wins against a top team and doesn't finish with less than 4 conference wins, I'm still on the Fire Wyking train.

---

Hell, even if he'd beaten Wichita State last year, would that still make you want him as coach? Unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak that clearly isn't gonna happen, there's nothing he could do that would make me want to retain him.

---

Personally, this is the only point worth discussing about Jones tenure IMHO. At the end of the season, a coach needs to be put in place that is likely to be the long term solution for Cal MBB. I don't see giving a learning coach a third season, simply because there is some improvement. For those that are 'hoping' that the recruiting will make the 2019/2020 version a medioce P12 team with a 10-8 record . . . I think your missing the boat and aren't thinking about this long term.

So, what does Jones need to do this season? He needs to IMPRESS. He needs to show that this team has turned a corner. He needs to show that this team is one that opponents fear. He needs to show that this team thinks it will win every game it plays, even if it is down at half time.

He needs to show that the ONLY thing this team needs, is a couple more pieces. NOT luck, NOT hope, NOT an easy schedule, NOT a down year in the P12, NOT shooting 40/50/90. If the non-conf play was better, then I may be more lenient, but based on where we're at now; anything short of running the remainder of the non-conf schedule and better than .500 in P12 play, a win in the P12 tourney and an invite to at least the NIT. means Jones is NOT the long term solution for Cal MBB.

BTW - I think Knowlton gets this and Jones gets this as well. This is not a personal attack on Jones at all. He is simply in over his head. There is a reason that 300 D1 basketball teams DON'T win 25 games each year and go to the sweet 16. It's a very difficult challenge.

---

I don't know, I think if he can still get us to 13-17/6-12 this season, he buys himself another year (where we would set the bar higher, of course). Meanwhile, we're trying to get the dedicated practice facility taken care of, so we can attract better candidates.

More games like SDSU, less like St. Mary's/USF, that's what I'm looking for.

---

Those pesky Catholic Schools. Why is it, even when they don't have star players, they play pretty good basketball?

calbear80 said:

---

Sorry friends, about my late response. I have been crazy busy getting ready for my upcoming trip to several exotic countries in Asia in less than 34 hours.

After a 10 country November in Europe (only one new one #125), it is going to be a 5 country December in Asia (yes, three new countries, #127, 128 and #129). It has been crazy researching and getting ready for some of these countries that most people have never heard of. Here is the good news: Europe is now finished and in Asia, every country east of Pakistan (except North Korea) will be finished by early January.

Now back to Cal MBB.

We are all happy that Cal MBB won ONE game in Berkeley. But, folks, let's keep it real. Here are a few facts (yes, I know you will hit me with Debbie Downer accusations):

1. Last year, we beat the very same SDSU (actually, a better SDSU team) in SAN DIEGO. Then, went on to finish:
. 8-24 overall, and
. 2-17 against Pac-12 opponents.

2. SDSU is not a very good team this year, likely, not as good as last years's team.

3. SDSU is unranked and is only 5-4 this year having lost to the likes of University of San Diego (a small religious school) by double digit right before playing Cal.

4. As a Pac-12 team, and with Pac-12 resources, we should beat non Power 5/6 teams. The fact that some are celebrating a Cal MBB victory over SDSU says a lot about the lowly state of Cal MBB.

5. Cal went undefeated at home just two or three years ago going something like 17-0 at home. The fact that some are celeberatinfmg a home victory over SDSU this year says a lot about how far Cal MBB has fallen.

6. SDSU was short handed in various ways during the game against Cal including some of their key players being in foul trouble. We were fortunate that we hit some unlikely three pointers and pulled out a win.

7. Cal MBB is now only 3-5 after having played most of their easiest games. We have lost by double digit to a few lesser schools.

8. Coach Joe Kapp after losing to WSU in mid-80's said, "We just got run over by a moped and some trucks are coming". That is how I feel when I look at Cal's upcoming Pac-12 schedule.

9. The Guy Mike Williams Hired As MBB "coach" is:
. 11-30 overall with many double digit losses to lesser opponents
. 2-17 against Pac-12 opponents

10. Maybe, we should hold off on that victory parade until we see more results from this team.

I am on the record that I will make a US$100,000 donation to Cal Athletics if the Guy Mike Williams Hired As MBB "coach" reaches .500 overal in Pac-12 before the end of this season. I am re-committing to that pledge.

Folks, .500 is a mediocre coaching record and that is the least that should be expected from our coach. This guy is currently 2-17 against Pac-12 opponents (less than 11% winning percentage). OK, some argue that he is only 2-16 (11% winning percentage) which is still horrible.

Go Bears!

---

In the event that Jones reaches .500 in the PAC12, I think you should give the $100K directly to Wyking Jones. He is the one you hate, the one you have heaped abuse on, and spend endless hours dreaming up ways to besmirch his abilities and destroy his livelihood. And if the Cal team does achieve a .500 season, much of the Cal team success will be due to Wyking Jones, and it will be a fine gesture by you as his most vocal critic to admit it. I, for one, hope he succeeds.

PS: How in the world can you take a child's game, played by maturing boys, so seriously as to gin up such contempt for one struggling coach who is trying his best to mentor these boys?

Good God. Rake an acre of leaves. Get back to me .

SFCityBear said:

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Big C said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

panda said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

---

How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Congrats we BARELY beat a horrible SDSU team that just lost to USD. We also got blown out by USF. Sorry, until Wyking wins against a top team and doesn't finish with less than 4 conference wins, I'm still on the Fire Wyking train.

---

Hell, even if he'd beaten Wichita State last year, would that still make you want him as coach? Unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak that clearly isn't gonna happen, there's nothing he could do that would make me want to retain him.

---

Personally, this is the only point worth discussing about Jones tenure IMHO. At the end of the season, a coach needs to be put in place that is likely to be the long term solution for Cal MBB. I don't see giving a learning coach a third season, simply because there is some improvement. For those that are 'hoping' that the recruiting will make the 2019/2020 version a medioce P12 team with a 10-8 record . . . I think your missing the boat and aren't thinking about this long term.

So, what does Jones need to do this season? He needs to IMPRESS. He needs to show that this team has turned a corner. He needs to show that this team is one that opponents fear. He needs to show that this team thinks it will win every game it plays, even if it is down at half time.

He needs to show that the ONLY thing this team needs, is a couple more pieces. NOT luck, NOT hope, NOT an easy schedule, NOT a down year in the P12, NOT shooting 40/50/90. If the non-conf play was better, then I may be more lenient, but based on where we're at now; anything short of running the remainder of the non-conf schedule and better than .500 in P12 play, a win in the P12 tourney and an invite to at least the NIT. means Jones is NOT the long term solution for Cal MBB.

BTW - I think Knowlton gets this and Jones gets this as well. This is not a personal attack on Jones at all. He is simply in over his head. There is a reason that 300 D1 basketball teams DON'T win 25 games each year and go to the sweet 16. It's a very difficult challenge.

---

I don't know, I think if he can still get us to 13-17/6-12 this season, he buys himself another year (where we would set the bar higher, of course). Meanwhile, we're trying to get the dedicated practice facility taken care of, so we can attract better candidates.

More games like SDSU, less like St. Mary's/USF, that's what I'm looking for.

---

Those pesky Catholic Schools. Why is it, even when they don't have star players, they play pretty good basketball?

---

Depends on the school. Santa Clara is awful; Loyola of Marymount hasn't been good in ages, USF only recently, Seattle--meh, Saint Mary's and Gonzaga have been good forever. I think the answer is (I'll give you a hint)--begins with C and ends with ch.

Big C said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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panda said:

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calgo430 said:

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we are very young. thats not wykings fault. look forward to improving.

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How so? Wasn't he on staff under Martin? Didn't he push off two players HE RECRUITED ?

Enough with the excuses. He dug the hole we are in right now. And he's incompetent as a coach. We have good young talent not because of him but because of Walker.

Congrats we BARELY beat a horrible SDSU team that just lost to USD. We also got blown out by USF. Sorry, until Wyking wins against a top team and doesn't finish with less than 4 conference wins, I'm still on the Fire Wyking train.

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Hell, even if he'd beaten Wichita State last year, would that still make you want him as coach? Unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak that clearly isn't gonna happen, there's nothing he could do that would make me want to retain him.

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Personally, this is the only point worth discussing about Jones tenure IMHO. At the end of the season, a coach needs to be put in place that is likely to be the long term solution for Cal MBB. I don't see giving a learning coach a third season, simply because there is some improvement. For those that are 'hoping' that the recruiting will make the 2019/2020 version a medioce P12 team with a 10-8 record . . . I think your missing the boat and aren't thinking about this long term.

So, what does Jones need to do this season? He needs to IMPRESS. He needs to show that this team has turned a corner. He needs to show that this team is one that opponents fear. He needs to show that this team thinks it will win every game it plays, even if it is down at half time.

He needs to show that the ONLY thing this team needs, is a couple more pieces. NOT luck, NOT hope, NOT an easy schedule, NOT a down year in the P12, NOT shooting 40/50/90. If the non-conf play was better, then I may be more lenient, but based on where we're at now; anything short of running the remainder of the non-conf schedule and better than .500 in P12 play, a win in the P12 tourney and an invite to at least the NIT. means Jones is NOT the long term solution for Cal MBB.

BTW - I think Knowlton gets this and Jones gets this as well. This is not a personal attack on Jones at all. He is simply in over his head. There is a reason that 300 D1 basketball teams DON'T win 25 games each year and go to the sweet 16. It's a very difficult challenge.

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I don't know, I think if he can still get us to 13-17/6-12 this season, he buys himself another year (where we would set the bar higher, of course). Meanwhile, we're trying to get the dedicated practice facility taken care of, so we can attract better candidates.

More games like SDSU, less like St. Mary's/USF, that's what I'm looking for.

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If he gets us to 13-17.6-12, that is a significant achievement. However, I wouldn't be convinced he is the long term solution or that he deserves another year. If he is still the coach at that point, that means either Knowlton couldn't find a better coach or that any coach he did find was not willing to come to Cal. In either case, that indicates problems with Cal, that are NOT because of Jones.

There were structural reasons that Jones was hired when he was. Most of those reasons no longer exist, so we don't need to 'settle' for an unproven coach with no experience and limited chance of long term success.

EricBear said:

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parentswerebears said:

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EricBear said:

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panda said:

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Team definitely did play better yesterday but let's not forget we barely beat a SDSU team that lost to USD. Let's see if he can put up this performance against FSU or any other P12 teams.

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USD is 8-2.

This guy's data has them at 55:

https://haslametrics.com/ratings.php

KenPom has them at 86:

https://kenpom.com/

Pretty good team actually.

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Pesky Facts...

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Right.

If I am understanding Panda's analysis correctly, the win against SDSU is devalued because the Aztecs previously lost to USD (SDSU led at the half, faded late to a veteran USD team). Thus, we will only be able to judge Cal once they get into the Pac-12 and play real teams, not ones that lose to the likes of USD.

Now, he might turn out to be correct over the course of the season.

But as of right now, Haslametrics rates USD as a top half Pac-12 team:

ASU: 28
UofA: 30
Oregon: 38
Colorado: 54

USD: 56

UCLA: 57
OSU: 63
UW: 72
Stanford: 89
WSU: 163
Cal: 172
Utah: 177

KenPom ranks USD lower, and behind several more Pac-12 teams than does Haslametrics, but certainly no worse than around the middle of the pack:

Oregon: 33
ASU: 43
UCLA: 46
UofA: 48
UW: 52
Colorado: 60
OSU: 67

USD: 85

USC: 91
Stanford: 100
Utah: 129
Cal: 171
Utah: 175

Yes, this is a weaker SDSU team than others of recent vintage. And yes, we still have a long way to go. But to devalue the win over SDSU in part because they "lost to USD" is not an accurate analysis at this juncture, in my opinion.

KenPom ranks Fresno St. 65; Haslametrics ranks them 49. A little better than USD. But those rankings don't take into consideration the Bulldogs will be missing their best player when they play us next week.

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The point is your rankings do not matter much as of now since USD hasnt won against a significant team of note except for maybe Colorado. I refuse to believe USD is a "pretty good team" until we see a legitimate win. The closest is their win over Colorado. We'll see if they are truly a "pretty good team" when they play Oregon next.

In relation to SDSU, my point is USD beating them is more on SDSU being a bad team this year than USD being a pretty good team. We dont know if USD truly is or if they are only successful because of their schedule. Let's see where they land on KenPom's rankings AFTER they play Oregon.

The fact that we barely beat SDSU is not something we should be proud of. I mean I get it, a W is a W and Wyking quite frankly does not have many... but to celebrate it as if Calbear80 is somehow wrong now and that we should be pro-Wyking again is sad. The man has done NOTHING to show he belongs in his current role.

But Ill play - if you want to use your stats, look where Cal is rated... 170. Is that something we should be proud of?