Instead of getting good position for rebounds, we chase the basketball (from a bad position) like it was a shiny object.

As for offensive boards, seems like we usually opt to get back down court to play defense instead. (Instructions from the coaches?)

Our "nice length off the bench" last night was Roman Davis. Nuff said there.

EricBear said:

---

Will defer to HD, as he was at the game and knows what he's talking about. Though our starting lineup most certainly had more size than theirs, and we brought some nice length (compared to low major Seattle) off the bench - while they didn't play much of a bench.

Here are Wyking's postgame comments on our rebounding: "I challenged our guys before our game to rebound the basketball - all five guys. We go in at halftime down 19-7 on the boards. Right there, something wasn't right. We ended up closing the gap a little bit, but they got 14 offensive rebounds and 19 points on second-chance baskets." Offensive rebounding is for sure about hustle and desire, and they killed us with 14 such boards.

We outrebounded Seattle 23-19 in the second half. Not sure what the second half o-board numbers were. Will find them.

In the first half Myles Carter (6-9 230) had 8 boards. Yes, he's very active. So I kind of get that, though I would like to see each of his rebounds to get a sense of how he got them.

Morgan Means, 6-3 G, had 2 boards, a bunch of other guys had 1, and they had 4 team rebounds. Perhaps the first half rebounding disparity was simply Means kicking our ass, combined with them not missing many and us taking a bunch of bad shots leading to relatively easy D boards for Seattle. If so, perhaps 19-7 is just a number and the 23-19 second half stats are more indicative of how we rebounded.

But from afar (and not having seen the game), the first half numbers are troublesome, particularly in light of Wyking's comments.

---

well, maybe "I don't agree" was too strong. if you look at my comments, I actually agree that our guards probably need to rebound better, and yes, a lot of that is hustle.

I didn't look at the roster heights, but to my eye they were taller than us at PG, and SG when ever Bradley was in. Their forward looked taller than Sueing, and their center who played every minute was the tallest player on the floor. I don't count Gordan because he's limited with his injury. That means they were taller than us at 4 or 5 positions most of the game (again, I could be wrong, but I was at near court level)

So if we are taller, then it's because Davis and Dyson are taller than Seattle, and because they are also athletic, I singled them out as players who probably need to rebound better (along with Matt who doesn't get many boards). But I say that without specifically watching their rebounding, so I don't want to criticize them to be fair.

I remember a lot of volleyball rebounds, and swatted balls. Seemed to me that there weren't a lot of clean rebounds, but I didn't realize they had such a huge rebounding margin in the first half, so I'm probably wrong in this case.

This is why I like to re-watch the recording of the game, where I can be objective and can break down elements of the game (unfortunately I forgot to record the game). I want to specifically focus on what our guards are doing on defensive rebounding. Are they fast breaking, are they blocking out their guard? Are they crashing the boards? Maybe I'll look at a past game to see what they are doing.

HoopDreams said:

---

IssyBear said:

---

The one thing I've noticed this season is that we never seem to crash the boards. When we get rebounds, it's almost always by a player already standing under the basket or via a long carom off the rim. When a shot goes up, many of our players seem to just turn and start running down the court away from the basket and almost never go to the basket for a rebound. Our guys under the basket (except for Grant - sometimes) almost never try to box out. I also agree with the comments about lack of effort. The most egregious example was a few games ago when we had four players surrounding one opponent, none of our guys moved, but their guy did and got the rebound. This is fundamental stuff and should be a priority for the coaches, assuming they share our concerns.

---

almost never block out?

I think for Kelly to get 10 rebounds over a taller, more athletic, more experienced, and better jumper he needs to block out.

As for our guards blocking out (not sure everyone understands that guards do need to block out on the perimeter)

Agree, for an undersized, player who isn't that strong and isn't that athletic to get rebounds, Grant must be blocking out.

I'm not sure. I'll have to watch film to iso on who is and isn't blocking out, but 'almost never' seems like an exaggeration

---

I accept your questioning my characterization of this as an "almost never" situation, because I haven't actually completed a serious study of the matter. This is not something I continuously focused on during the Seattle game, but whenever I did, I did not see anyone (including Kelly) blocking out except for Grant, and frankly he didn't do a great job of it. I hope you're right, because blocking out is such a fundamental part of the game, especially on a height challenged team. Let's watch the next game and see if, how often, and how well our guys are blocking out. One final thought: I only expect guards to block out if they are under the basket, not on the perimeter.

IssyBear said:

---

HoopDreams said:

---

IssyBear said:

---

The one thing I've noticed this season is that we never seem to crash the boards. When we get rebounds, it's almost always by a player already standing under the basket or via a long carom off the rim. When a shot goes up, many of our players seem to just turn and start running down the court away from the basket and almost never go to the basket for a rebound. Our guys under the basket (except for Grant - sometimes) almost never try to box out. I also agree with the comments about lack of effort. The most egregious example was a few games ago when we had four players surrounding one opponent, none of our guys moved, but their guy did and got the rebound. This is fundamental stuff and should be a priority for the coaches, assuming they share our concerns.

---

almost never block out?

I think for Kelly to get 10 rebounds over a taller, more athletic, more experienced, and better jumper he needs to block out.

As for our guards blocking out (not sure everyone understands that guards do need to block out on the perimeter)

Agree, for an undersized, player who isn't that strong and isn't that athletic to get rebounds, Grant must be blocking out.

I'm not sure. I'll have to watch film to iso on who is and isn't blocking out, but 'almost never' seems like an exaggeration

---

I accept your questioning my characterization of this as an "almost never" situation, because I haven't actually completed a serious study of the matter. This is not something I continuously focused on during the Seattle game, but whenever I did, I did not see anyone (including Kelly) blocking out except for Grant, and frankly he didn't do a great job of it. I hope you're right, because blocking out is such a fundamental part of the game, especially on a height challenged team. Let's watch the next game and see if, how often, and how well our guys are blocking out. One final thought: I only expect guards to block out if they are under the basket, not on the perimeter.

---

that's good. I'll also try to remember to record the game so I can breakdown our rebounding.

however, I would differ on one point. all guards should block out their man, even on the perimeter. it's a fundamental too. there are some exceptions, such as if they are playing zone, or if they are instructed to start a fast break, which is the strategy of some teams (I don't think Cal is one of them this year)