With about 25 seconds left in the game, Cal had the ball and therefore had one more opportunity to attack the basket. WJ ordered his players to stand there and refuse to attack the basket one more time. Raising thge white flag in front of your players and all the Cal fans is a bridge too far for me. Up until that episode, I have been a WJ supporter and have argued for one more year in the interests of fairness and continuity. No more. WJ quit on his team with 25 seconds left to play. It's as if he was punishing them for being routed by a superior cat team. You play the damn game until the final whistle while you have the ball. In may day, someone would have gotten a swift kick in the rear for such a flag-waving display. Kyle Smith???Sure---why not???i'm off the reservation.

Yeah, I didn't get that. Sure, the game was beyond reach, but the players -- whoever's left in the game -- should be battling until there's 00.00 on the clock. It's the team that's AHEAD that is supposed to stop trying to score in that situation, not the team that's behind.

What was the deal with that?

Lots of things don't make sense. So Paris Austin misses 2 games with a sprained ankle; uncertain for tonight; yet he's out there down 20+ with 2 minutes to play.

Wyking Jones will be the first Cal coach to not win a single game in the PAC 12. Fire got now before all the players transfer out

Does the AD know that we have a basketball program? He must not because it doesn't seem like anything is being done for this sinking ship.

this is stupid!!! Our defense is the worst in the country - that level of achievement can be accomplished by a dead person.

Justice was open for a three. If he'd hit it he would have had a 30-point night. You could see how dejected he looked when the coach told him no. I don't get that, Whoever's in there should get a chance to play. It would have been perfectly understandable to clear the bench with a minute left to play. That's also waving the white flag, but the game was over. Why not give Erving and Welle and others a few possessions. Disappointing night, and that was a disappointing ending.

Ya'll are worrying to much - come back when WJ isn't the coach. This is a sham program right now. Go find and enjoy your hobbies.

The Eagles - Already Gone - live NY 1994 - HQ full export via @YouTube

helltopay1 said:

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With about 25 seconds left in the game, Cal had the ball and therefore had one more opportunity to attack the basket. WJ ordered his players to stand there and refuse to attack the basket one more time. Raising thge white flag in front of your players and all the Cal fans is a bridge too far for me. Up until that episode, I have been a WJ supporter and have argued for one more year in the interests of fairness and continuity. No more. WJ quit on his team with 25 seconds left to play. It's as if he was punishing them for being routed by a superior cat team. You play the damn game until the final whistle while you have the ball. In may day, someone would have gotten a swift kick in the rear for such a flag-waving display. Kyle Smith???Sure---why not???i'm off the reservation.

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LOL at the people declaring that now, they've caught up to the rest of us who came to this conclusion long ago. Do you want a medal?

I don't think I had seen that before, but do we know it was Jones' decision?

Dear Civil: are you suggesting someone ordered Jones to wave the white flag? Impossible to believe. Also, if some mysterious person ordered him to do that, Jones would have said, " nuts to that---as long as I'm the coach---we're playing until the final whistle. i've never been so depressed. Jones was also absent from the radio broadcast after the game. Let's not pretend that WJ is the only culprit here. His team is still young, with no rim protection at all. Kelly is seriously undersized as a post player and routinely gets backed in by taller, more experienced players. austin is not a classic pass-first PG. van over is only a rumor on defense. Dyson won't shoot. Gordon is still not 100%. Wazzou is a winnable game next week, although they are unbeaten in Pullman. Decent crowd tonight. This will have to play out.

Dear Yogi: Nobody wants a medal. Different people have different opinions here. I would say that some people simply have more patience than others. Nothing wrong with that. And Cal is simply not as talented as most teams in the Pac-12. WJ didn't exactly inherit a gold mine. He was handed a poor hand and has not played it terribly well. In case you haven't noticed, it's hard to recruit here at Cal..It's always a miracle if Cal gets a top rated player. As I said earlier, WJ lost me when he ordered his players to stop playing the last time Cal had the ball. This will probably end well. If the axe falls, let us pray ( does Cal still allow prayer?) that the damage is minimal.

helltopay1, do not quit, do something about it. As Cal grads with education from the #1 Public University In The World, we were all thought that we are here to make a difference. How are you going to make a difference?

Go Bears!

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Yogi: Nobody wants a medal. Different people have different opinions here. I would say that some people simply have more patience than others. Nothing wrong with that. And Cal is simply not as talented as most teams in the Pac-12. WJ didn't exactly inherit a gold mine. He was handed a poor hand and has not played it terribly well. In case you haven't noticed, it's hard to recruit here at Cal..It's always a miracle if Cal gets a top rated player. As I said earlier, WJ lost me when he ordered his players to stop playing the last time Cal had the ball. This will probably end well. If the axe falls, let us pray ( does Cal still allow prayer?) that the damage is minimal.

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Does this analysis apply to the Yale and USF losses too?

Cal doesn't have the talent to compete against power teams and the conference's upper half (there are no power teams there, btw), but most of the teams on the OOC schedule should've been handled with ease. The main problem with Cal is its incompetent coaching staff on a micro level, and the realities of the AD (or at least the former AD), which allowed the staff to be hired in the first place on a macro level.

hoop97 said:

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Lots of things don't make sense. So Paris Austin misses 2 games with a sprained ankle; uncertain for tonight; yet he's out there down 20+ with 2 minutes to play.

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Lol,
I didn't see the game, and don't really care, which is nuts considering my addiction.
But you raise an excellent point which makes me question same as you.

JimSox said:

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Justice was open for a three. If he'd hit it he would have had a 30-point night. You could see how dejected he looked when the coach told him no. I don't get that, Whoever's in there should get a chance to play. It would have been perfectly understandable to clear the bench with a minute left to play. That's also waving the white flag, but the game was over. Why not give Erving and Welle and others a few possessions. Disappointing night, and that was a disappointing ending.

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Clear the bench with 3 or 4 to play if it's over.
I never understand why coaches wait for 50 seconds left. That's a complete insult and disheartening to the bench.

i left with 15 minutes to play. we were not competitive. mcneill could not buy a basket, interior defense was ugly and paris austin is not a pass first point guard. that spells blowout. should not happen at home.

concordtom said:

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hoop97 said:

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Lots of things don't make sense. So Paris Austin misses 2 games with a sprained ankle; uncertain for tonight; yet he's out there down 20+ with 2 minutes to play.

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Lol,
I didn't see the game, and don't really care, which is nuts considering my addiction.
But you raise an excellent point which makes me question same as you.

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Glad I am not the only one that feels bad I cant go anymore.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Civil: are you suggesting someone ordered Jones to wave the white flag? Impossible to believe. Also, if some mysterious person ordered him to do that, Jones would have said, " nuts to that---as long as I'm the coach---we're playing until the final whistle. i've never been so depressed. Jones was also absent from the radio broadcast after the game. Let's not pretend that WJ is the only culprit here. His team is still young, with no rim protection at all. Kelly is seriously undersized as a post player and routinely gets backed in by taller, more experienced players. austin is not a classic pass-first PG. van over is only a rumor on defense. Dyson won't shoot. Gordon is still not 100%. Wazzou is a winnable game next week, although they are unbeaten in Pullman. Decent crowd tonight. This will have to play out.

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No. The opposite. Do we know it wasn't Suing's decision to hold on to the ball?

Civil Bear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Dear Civil: are you suggesting someone ordered Jones to wave the white flag? Impossible to believe. Also, if some mysterious person ordered him to do that, Jones would have said, " nuts to that---as long as I'm the coach---we're playing until the final whistle. i've never been so depressed. Jones was also absent from the radio broadcast after the game. Let's not pretend that WJ is the only culprit here. His team is still young, with no rim protection at all. Kelly is seriously undersized as a post player and routinely gets backed in by taller, more experienced players. austin is not a classic pass-first PG. van over is only a rumor on defense. Dyson won't shoot. Gordon is still not 100%. Wazzou is a winnable game next week, although they are unbeaten in Pullman. Decent crowd tonight. This will have to play out.

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No. The opposite. Do we know it wasn't Suing's decision to hold on to the ball?

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Pretty darn sure. He looked ready to go, right near the Cal bench, then looked over at Wyking who was yelling at him, then dejectedly stopped and just dribbled out the clock.

Well if Sueing was acutely aware that he had 27 at the time and was dejected because he wanted to hit 30 while the team was down 20+ then the already big problem of this basketball team is even bigger.

Again this is all speculation but I agree someone should have taken a shot. I feel like the staff doesn't empty the bench etc. because they are worried about giving up 100.

Maybe Jones was punishing him for playing bad defense.

hoop97 said:

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Well if Sueing was acutely aware that he had 27 at the time and was dejected because he wanted to hit 30 while the team was down 20+ then the already big problem of this basketball team is even bigger.

Again this is all speculation but I agree someone should have taken a shot. I feel like the staff doesn't empty the bench etc. because they are worried about giving up 100.

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It wouldn't be a stretch to think he might have been dejected because he and his team got embarrassed on their own court. What does seem like more of a stretch is that a player with a green light all night long would look over to the bench before putting up a last-second shot.

Maybe somebody could have asked the question...

Yogi Bear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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With about 25 seconds left in the game, Cal had the ball and therefore had one more opportunity to attack the basket. WJ ordered his players to stand there and refuse to attack the basket one more time. Raising thge white flag in front of your players and all the Cal fans is a bridge too far for me. Up until that episode, I have been a WJ supporter and have argued for one more year in the interests of fairness and continuity. No more. WJ quit on his team with 25 seconds left to play. It's as if he was punishing them for being routed by a superior cat team. You play the damn game until the final whistle while you have the ball. In may day, someone would have gotten a swift kick in the rear for such a flag-waving display. Kyle Smith???Sure---why not???i'm off the reservation.

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LOL at the people declaring that now, they've caught up to the rest of us who came to this conclusion long ago. Do you want a medal?

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Already Gone, by definition, means gone already.

My hope was to wait unit the Pac 12 tourney to see if the team's young talent somehow coalesces into a competitive team, that with next year's additions, can turn into a winning team. Anyone with expectations that this team was going to rip it though the conference schedule this year clearly had not seen the first few games.

Dear Wife: Nobody thought that Cal was " going to rip it through the pac-12. " The kids are trying: WJ constantly says that the kids Are not trying. I'm going with the kids.

Wyking needs a scapegoat, it just happens to be the kids he recruited.

Civil Bear said:

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hoop97 said:

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Well if Sueing was acutely aware that he had 27 at the time and was dejected because he wanted to hit 30 while the team was down 20+ then the already big problem of this basketball team is even bigger.

Again this is all speculation but I agree someone should have taken a shot. I feel like the staff doesn't empty the bench etc. because they are worried about giving up 100.

---

It wouldn't be a stretch to think he might have been dejected because he and his team got embarrassed on their own court. What does seem like more of a stretch is that a player with a green light all night long would look over to the bench before putting up a last-second shot.

Maybe somebody could have asked the question...

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Wait. I'd like to see it again, but I don't think he looked over at the bench til he heard the coach yell at him. He had the ball right near where Jones was standing. And I don't know whether he was acutely aware that he had 27 points. It just looked by his body language that he wanted to keep playing and was sad that he was told to stop. I myself wanted to see him make a shot and get to 30 for some little consolation after an awful game. Jones was spot on after the game when he talked about getting beat off the bounce. What I saw was a lot of ole defense in the second half. Either they just kinda threw in the towel after playing with good emergy for most of the first half. Or they don't have the talent to play defense against good opponents. Either way bad news.

JimSox said:

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Civil Bear said:

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hoop97 said:

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I myself wanted to see him make a shot and get to 30 for some little consolation after an awful game.

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If stats are what you'd like, then let's go with the Paul Wetshead offense!
A shot within 5 seconds of gaining possession.

touchdownbears43 said:

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Ya'll are worrying to much - come back when WJ isn't the coach. This is a sham program right now. Go find and enjoy your hobbies.

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I used to obsessively follow Cal Basketball and now I can't even remember the last game I watched. I think it was last year some time. My interest will perk back up once we bring in a new coach.

socaliganbear said:

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Wyking needs a scapegoat, it just happens to be the kids he recruited.

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Not really. The best thing the coach has done over the last season and a half is say and do next to nothing. He doesn't need to excuse his poor performance. It was entirely predictable. He's making nice money now, and he'll be making nice money after he leaves or is asked to leave. Not saying it's deserved in the least (it's not), but that's the reality.

I wonder if some kind of deal was cut with Mike Williams.

oskidunker said:

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I wonder if some kind of deal was cut with Mike Williams.

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Deal?

JimSox said:

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Civil Bear said:

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hoop97 said:

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Well if Sueing was acutely aware that he had 27 at the time and was dejected because he wanted to hit 30 while the team was down 20+ then the already big problem of this basketball team is even bigger.

Again this is all speculation but I agree someone should have taken a shot. I feel like the staff doesn't empty the bench etc. because they are worried about giving up 100.

---

It wouldn't be a stretch to think he might have been dejected because he and his team got embarrassed on their own court. What does seem like more of a stretch is that a player with a green light all night long would look over to the bench before putting up a last-second shot.

Maybe somebody could have asked the question...

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Wait. I'd like to see it again, but I don't think he looked over at the bench til he heard the coach yell at him. He had the ball right near where Jones was standing. And I don't know whether he was acutely aware that he had 27 points. It just looked by his body language that he wanted to keep playing and was sad that he was told to stop. I myself wanted to see him make a shot and get to 30 for some little consolation after an awful game. Jones was spot on after the game when he talked about getting beat off the bounce. What I saw was a lot of ole defense in the second half. Either they just kinda threw in the towel after playing with good emergy for most of the first half. Or they don't have the talent to play defense against good opponents. Either way bad news.

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With about 20 seconds left, Sueing was still playing and then he noticed that the others had stopped. They were all right in front of the bench, so maybe the coaches said something, too (or had said something to the other players, prior).

In the grand scheme of things, this is trifling, but, usually, when you are BEHIND, don't you play until the very end (no matter whether starters are scrubs are on the court)? It's the team that's WAY AHEAD that stops.