https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-sdsu-aztecs-ncaa-tournament-basketball-midmajor-20190318-story.html

I saw this today and what jumped off the page is just how well the SEC has done this year in respect to at-large bids (and general BB performance).

What is JK's number one job? Getting Larry the tennis idiot (seriously, Tennis? Boy hasn't THAT done well with TV) to figure out how to increase the TV payouts to member schools. Pac-12 woes can be directly attributed to our inability to generate the kind of revenue that we need.

What Larry SHOULD do is understand that the Pac-12 has leverage. You know what sucks? Night games in Late October in places like Wisconsin. Or AnnArbor. Or After a day long of boozing in F'ing Tuscalusa and the riots that follow. ESPN and ABC _NEED_ Pac-12 games that kick at 1; 4 and 7 p.m. TIme for Larry to grow a pair and suggest that to the powers that be. Or maybe we can see what happens when ESPN has to convince FF'ing Domers to kick the rock at 10 p.m. in South Bend.

tennis???Pansy sport---pansy commissioner. Yes--that's a generalization. It's also a generalization to say that the Irish like to imbibe and that Jews tend to be democrats. ( at least in the US) Generalizations have their documented histories and their uses.

JK's #1 job is to land big donations so that even if incompetent Larry isn't removed soon, Cal athletics will still have more money to pay good coaches, build and maintain facilities, etc.

helltopay1 said:

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tennis???Pansy sport---pansy commissioner. Yes--that's a generalization. It's also a generalization to say that the Irish like to imbibe and that Jews tend to be democrats. ( at least in the US) Generalizations have their documented histories and their uses.

---

Tennis is a great sport. No one is calling those that play "Pansies". But other than the finals at Wimbledon and PERHAPS the US Open it is a non-entity on television. I would challenge ANYONE other than Tennis nuts to name more than 5 current womens and more than 3 current Men's superstarts. And that is probably because the Williams sisters have done more to raise the visibility of the sport.

While Larry the idiot isn't ENTIRELY to blame for it you do have to question the conference's wisdom that a guy with THAT background was qualified to leverage the key products of men's football and Basketball. Indeed, the Pac-12 network is a testament to a guy who thinks that if you put Olympic sports on TV people will flock to your great sport and watch it. How is THAT working out for the Conference of Champions? SEC got it. Big 10 got it. Pac 12? Not so much.

This is doubly true in the college setting. You can do quirky things like the Pro-Team Tennis format in the 1970s or made for TV BS like Tiger Vs. Phil when dealing with professionals. Good luck altering format with the non-revenue olympic sports.

There are only 3 superstars in men's tennis: Federer, nadal, and djokovic

I once literally ran into Venus Williams when I was getting off an elevator and she was getting on the elevator and "pansy" was probably the last word that came to mind.

helltopay1 said:

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tennis???Pansy sport---pansy commissioner. Yes--that's a generalization. It's also a generalization to say that the Irish like to imbibe and that Jews tend to be democrats. ( at least in the US) Generalizations have their documented histories and their uses.

---

"If there weren't stereotypes...there wouldn't be stereotypes..."

Senior, playing on the no. 14th ranked Cal, and number 112 national ranked Maria Smith doesn't look like a pansy

https://calbears.com/news/2019/3/14/womens-tennis-smith-savors-first-ranking.aspx

Dear Alk: And, if the colors blue and gold didn't exist, thge colors blue and gold wouldn't exist. if you are trying to deny the validity of any and all stereotypes, I'm afraid you will need to do a better job. Most stereotypes are derivatives of either common sense or documented experience or history. Naturally, there are some generalizations which cannot pass muster when properly analyzed. Here's one: Most students at MIT are brainy nerds who aren't terribly athletic. The key word is most. Does any experienced person deny the validity of that assertion? i.e.stereotype. or, are you simply being argumentative for the hell of it??

dear Souse: i agree. She is the exception which proves the rule. 'Pansy" in relation to football , basketball, hockey, rugby, soccer, boxing, wrestling, etc. I should have included the latter in order to cast light on the former. didn't;t think it was necessary. Cal grads are usually hipper than that. Also, sometimes exaggerations are necessary in order to make a point. d'accord??

helltopay1 said:

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dear Souse: i agree. She is the exception which proves the rule. 'Pansy" in relation to football , basketball, hockey, rugby, soccer, boxing, wrestling, etc. I should have included the latter in order to cast light on the former. didn't;t think it was necessary. Cal grads are usually hipper than that. Also, sometimes exaggerations are necessary in order to make a point. d'accord??

---

HTP - Dont let me get in the way of a good Larry Scott slam though. Fire away. He deserves it. Franky, I've never been much of an individual sport guys so sports like tennis, golf, T&F, etc never did much for me (with the rare exception of the Olympics). To each his own, I suppose, but I've just always been more a team sport guy.

Also, if you're gonna take shots of Larry Scott's tennis-exclusive resume prior to leading the P12, be sure to mention that he was also a "professional" tennis player. His career win/loss performance as a "pro" was 1-18 according to Wikipedia. I'm no expert in tennis but I'll assume 1-18 is bit weak and probably in line with his performance as a conference commissioner.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Alk: And, if the colors blue and gold didn't exist, thge colors blue and gold wouldn't exist. if you are trying to deny the validity of any and all stereotypes, I'm afraid you will need to do a better job. Most stereotypes are derivatives of either common sense or documented experience or history. Naturally, there are some generalizations which cannot pass muster when properly analyzed. Here's one: Most students at MIT are brainy nerds who aren't terribly athletic. The key word is most. Does any experienced person deny the validity of that assertion? i.e.stereotype. or, are you simply being argumentative for the hell of it??

---

Actually, I agree with you 100%. I wasn't denying anything.
I think you missed my point. As my statement said, (but you didn't get it), stereotypes exist because there are stereotypes.

JK's job?

What? Did I miss some major news on the Men's Basketball page while fantasizing about Trump's earthly demise?
Have we hired Jason Kidd as our new head coach?

TheSouseFamily said:

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HTP - Dont let me get in the way of a good Larry Scott slam though. Fire away. He deserves it.

---

+1

Quote:

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Franky, I've never been much of an individual sport guys so sports like tennis, golf, T&F, etc never did much for me (with the rare exception of the Olympics). To each his own, I suppose, but I've just always been more a team sport guy.

---

Me too. Last week I saw a JC women's basketball game which was great fun. For me that was better than watching the best in the world do tennis, golf, gymnastics, swimming, bowling, archery, whatever. And I think for once I'm not alone. But I doubt Larry Scott will ever figure that out.

Dear Alk: Are you putting me on? Please say you are putting me on. "Stereotypes exist because stereotypes exist?" No---stereotypes exist because there is usually much truth behind the stereotype. my dog exists because my dog exists??

A man and his dog is a stereotype.

Just the dog is a monotype.

socaltownie said:

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https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-sdsu-aztecs-ncaa-tournament-basketball-midmajor-20190318-story.html

I saw this today and what jumped off the page is just how well the SEC has done this year in respect to at-large bids (and general BB performance).

What is JK's number one job? Getting Larry the tennis idiot (seriously, Tennis? Boy hasn't THAT done well with TV) to figure out how to increase the TV payouts to member schools. Pac-12 woes can be directly attributed to our inability to generate the kind of revenue that we need.

What Larry SHOULD do is understand that the Pac-12 has leverage. You know what sucks? Night games in Late October in places like Wisconsin. Or AnnArbor. Or After a day long of boozing in F'ing Tuscalusa and the riots that follow. ESPN and ABC _NEED_ Pac-12 games that kick at 1; 4 and 7 p.m. TIme for Larry to grow a pair and suggest that to the powers that be. Or maybe we can see what happens when ESPN has to convince FF'ing Domers to kick the rock at 10 p.m. in South Bend.

---

One slight problem...

Figuring out how to increase TV payouts is above Knowlton's pay grade. That job falls under the jurisdiction of the Presidents/Chancellors. Perhaps you should be addressing your concerns to Carol Christ.

71Bear said:

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socaltownie said:

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https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-sdsu-aztecs-ncaa-tournament-basketball-midmajor-20190318-story.html

I saw this today and what jumped off the page is just how well the SEC has done this year in respect to at-large bids (and general BB performance).

What is JK's number one job? Getting Larry the tennis idiot (seriously, Tennis? Boy hasn't THAT done well with TV) to figure out how to increase the TV payouts to member schools. Pac-12 woes can be directly attributed to our inability to generate the kind of revenue that we need.

What Larry SHOULD do is understand that the Pac-12 has leverage. You know what sucks? Night games in Late October in places like Wisconsin. Or AnnArbor. Or After a day long of boozing in F'ing Tuscalusa and the riots that follow. ESPN and ABC _NEED_ Pac-12 games that kick at 1; 4 and 7 p.m. TIme for Larry to grow a pair and suggest that to the powers that be. Or maybe we can see what happens when ESPN has to convince FF'ing Domers to kick the rock at 10 p.m. in South Bend.

---

One slight problem...

Figuring out how to increase TV payouts is above Knowlton's pay grade. That job falls under the jurisdiction of the Presidents/Chancellors. Perhaps you should be addressing your concerns to Carol Christ.

---

Latest info is that there is now a "council of ADs" that is directly charged with overseeing Larry (Chaired by I believe the AD from Washington). Then there is a council of Presidents who also are focused on the conference (definately chaired by the President of Colorado). Unclear how those intersect

socaltownie said:

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71Bear said:

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socaltownie said:

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https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-sdsu-aztecs-ncaa-tournament-basketball-midmajor-20190318-story.html

I saw this today and what jumped off the page is just how well the SEC has done this year in respect to at-large bids (and general BB performance).

What is JK's number one job? Getting Larry the tennis idiot (seriously, Tennis? Boy hasn't THAT done well with TV) to figure out how to increase the TV payouts to member schools. Pac-12 woes can be directly attributed to our inability to generate the kind of revenue that we need.

What Larry SHOULD do is understand that the Pac-12 has leverage. You know what sucks? Night games in Late October in places like Wisconsin. Or AnnArbor. Or After a day long of boozing in F'ing Tuscalusa and the riots that follow. ESPN and ABC _NEED_ Pac-12 games that kick at 1; 4 and 7 p.m. TIme for Larry to grow a pair and suggest that to the powers that be. Or maybe we can see what happens when ESPN has to convince FF'ing Domers to kick the rock at 10 p.m. in South Bend.

---

One slight problem...

Figuring out how to increase TV payouts is above Knowlton's pay grade. That job falls under the jurisdiction of the Presidents/Chancellors. Perhaps you should be addressing your concerns to Carol Christ.

---

Latest info is that there is now a "council of ADs" that is directly charged with overseeing Larry (Chaired by I believe the AD from Washington). Then there is a council of Presidents who also are focused on the conference (definately chaired by the President of Colorado). Unclear how those intersect

---

Slight correction...

The AD Council (chaired by Dave Heeke, Arizona) is responsible for working with P12 staff, including Scott, to establish policy for the conference. Scott still reports to the Presidents/Chancellors. There is no doubt that Scott has had his wings clipped but he is still the commissioner and he still wields significant influence.

The next big issue to be resolved is the completion of the equity sale. That will tell us a lot about Scott's future.

We tell JK to tell LS to tell ESPN, 30% more in payments and one month advance notice game times. Or we'll pull out of all Thursday/Friday games and play only 8 conference games.

oskirules said:

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We tell JK to tell LS to tell ESPN, 30% more in payments and one month advance notice game times. Or we'll pull out of all Thursday/Friday games and play only 8 conference games.

---

Then ESPN laughs hysterically at him followed by a call to their legal counsel.

helltopay1 said:

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Dear Alk: Are you putting me on? Please say you are putting me on. "Stereotypes exist because stereotypes exist?" No---stereotypes exist because there is usually much truth behind the stereotype. my dog exists because my dog exists??

---

You are over-analyzing a joke.

Think Yogi Berra. If you don't get it now I can't hekp you.

71Bear said:

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oskirules said:

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We tell JK to tell LS to tell ESPN, 30% more in payments and one month advance notice game times. Or we'll pull out of all Thursday/Friday games and play only 8 conference games.

---

Then ESPN laughs hysterically at him followed by a call to their legal counsel.

---

Seriously though, we could start building a coalition of schools who just think enough is enough on this. I mean, does ANY SCHOOL really LIKE it?!? (referring to kick-off times)

If the coalition gets big enough and is united, the contract could be modified before it is up. The product belongs to us (the schools), not the networks. We should exert our power.

Big C said:

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71Bear said:

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oskirules said:

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We tell JK to tell LS to tell ESPN, 30% more in payments and one month advance notice game times. Or we'll pull out of all Thursday/Friday games and play only 8 conference games.

---

Then ESPN laughs hysterically at him followed by a call to their legal counsel.

---

Seriously though, we could start building a coalition of schools who just think enough is enough on this. I mean, does ANY SCHOOL really LIKE it?!? (referring to kick-off times)

If the coalition gets big enough and is united, the contract could be modified before it is up. The product belongs to us (the schools), not the networks. We should exert our power.

---

The value of the contract is in the flexibility of game times. ESPN and Fox made a deal, the conference happily accepted the terms and here we are. There is no going back now. The change will come (if it comes) when the contract comes up for renewal. Until then, the conference schools will whine but they certainly won't be willing to give back a dime.

Heck, from a financial point of view, Cal is in the bottom quartile among the P12 members. They are in absolutely NO position to talk about a rebate. You would get laughed out of the Chancellor's office if you even suggested the idea.

71Bear said:

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Big C said:

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71Bear said:

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oskirules said:

---

We tell JK to tell LS to tell ESPN, 30% more in payments and one month advance notice game times. Or we'll pull out of all Thursday/Friday games and play only 8 conference games.

---

Then ESPN laughs hysterically at him followed by a call to their legal counsel.

---

Seriously though, we could start building a coalition of schools who just think enough is enough on this. I mean, does ANY SCHOOL really LIKE it?!? (referring to kick-off times)

If the coalition gets big enough and is united, the contract could be modified before it is up. The product belongs to us (the schools), not the networks. We should exert our power.

---

The value of the contract is in the flexibility of game times. ESPN and Fox made a deal, the conference happily accepted the terms and here we are. There is no going back now. The change will come (if it comes) when the contract comes up for renewal. Until then, the conference schools will whine but they certainly won't be willing to give back a dime.

Heck, from a financial point of view, Cal is in the bottom quartile among the P12 members. They are in absolutely NO position to talk about a rebate. You would get laughed out of the Chancellor's office if you even suggested the idea.

---

Well, contracts CAN be re-negotiated, but to your main point . . . Cal has NO leverage at this point in time. I also think most P12 teams are happier with this than Cal -and any renegotiation would be by the entire P12, not a single school.

There's a reason these TV contracts were so long. The networks have good negotiators and the P12 does not!

BeachedBear said:

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71Bear said:

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Big C said:

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71Bear said:

---

oskirules said:

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We tell JK to tell LS to tell ESPN, 30% more in payments and one month advance notice game times. Or we'll pull out of all Thursday/Friday games and play only 8 conference games.

---

Then ESPN laughs hysterically at him followed by a call to their legal counsel.

---

Seriously though, we could start building a coalition of schools who just think enough is enough on this. I mean, does ANY SCHOOL really LIKE it?!? (referring to kick-off times)

If the coalition gets big enough and is united, the contract could be modified before it is up. The product belongs to us (the schools), not the networks. We should exert our power.

---

The value of the contract is in the flexibility of game times. ESPN and Fox made a deal, the conference happily accepted the terms and here we are. There is no going back now. The change will come (if it comes) when the contract comes up for renewal. Until then, the conference schools will whine but they certainly won't be willing to give back a dime.

Heck, from a financial point of view, Cal is in the bottom quartile among the P12 members. They are in absolutely NO position to talk about a rebate. You would get laughed out of the Chancellor's office if you even suggested the idea.

---

Well, contracts CAN be re-negotiated, but to your main point . . . Cal has NO leverage at this point in time. I also think most P12 teams are happier with this than Cal -and any renegotiation would be by the entire P12, not a single school.

There's a reason these TV contracts were so long. The networks have good negotiators and the P12 does not!

---

Yes, contracts can be renegotiated. However, both parties have to be willing to engage. At this point, there is no advantage to ESPN to reopen. Why should they when they have a sweet deal and the alternative doesn't work for them?

71Bear said:

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BeachedBear said:

---

71Bear said:

---

Big C said:

---

71Bear said:

---

oskirules said:

---

We tell JK to tell LS to tell ESPN, 30% more in payments and one month advance notice game times. Or we'll pull out of all Thursday/Friday games and play only 8 conference games.

---

Then ESPN laughs hysterically at him followed by a call to their legal counsel.

---

Seriously though, we could start building a coalition of schools who just think enough is enough on this. I mean, does ANY SCHOOL really LIKE it?!? (referring to kick-off times)

If the coalition gets big enough and is united, the contract could be modified before it is up. The product belongs to us (the schools), not the networks. We should exert our power.

---

The value of the contract is in the flexibility of game times. ESPN and Fox made a deal, the conference happily accepted the terms and here we are. There is no going back now. The change will come (if it comes) when the contract comes up for renewal. Until then, the conference schools will whine but they certainly won't be willing to give back a dime.

Heck, from a financial point of view, Cal is in the bottom quartile among the P12 members. They are in absolutely NO position to talk about a rebate. You would get laughed out of the Chancellor's office if you even suggested the idea.

---

Well, contracts CAN be re-negotiated, but to your main point . . . Cal has NO leverage at this point in time. I also think most P12 teams are happier with this than Cal -and any renegotiation would be by the entire P12, not a single school.

There's a reason these TV contracts were so long. The networks have good negotiators and the P12 does not!

---

Yes, contracts can be renegotiated. However, both parties have to be willing to engage. At this point, there is no advantage to ESPN to reopen. Why should they when they have a sweet deal and the alternative doesn't work for them?

---

Completely agree. That was my intended point. Add to that, that they negotiated a better deal for them to begin with. Places like Cal, simply are not suited to be entertainment media entities. Larry Scott claims to be one, but I'm not impressed with anything about him other than the comp package he negotiated for himself.

A couple things ESPN (and others) were aware of that the P12 was not when these contracts were established:

• Viewership and cable distribution is being disrupted (which encourages ESPN and others to negotiate longer term contracts to give them time to adapt and hinders P12 to take advantage).
• P12 wanted their own network that most felt would be a disaster amidst the disruption - which it has.
• P12 was used to relatively little TV revenue. Give them $10Million and they will be too giddy to realize they are missing out on $30Million.
• College athletic programs will always spend as much or more than they get, so they will get hooked on this smack and be our beeothches.

I don't recall if Larry was around for these contracts or inherited them, but at the time I do recall that many people thought these contracts were awesome and just as many thought they were terrible (but Disney was very happy).

BeachedBear said:

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I don't recall if Larry was around for these contracts or inherited them, but at the time I do recall that many people thought these contracts were awesome and just as many thought they were terrible (but Disney was very happy).

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These were all negotiated by Scott. Part of the problem is that the previous commish was Tom Hansen who was asleep for his entire tenure.

helltopay1 said:

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tennis???Pansy sport---pansy commissioner. Yes--that's a generalization. It's also a generalization to say that the Irish like to imbibe and that Jews tend to be democrats. ( at least in the US) Generalizations have their documented histories and their uses.

---

pansy sport. yea. so i must be a fing pansy. it is not about Larry being part of the tennis structure. it is just his incompetence not the tennis part. I coached high school basketball for 18 years and being an outstanding tennis player takes alot more time, practice and mental toughness. Oh and height does make a big difference in tennis too.

LodeBear said:

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helltopay1 said:

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tennis???Pansy sport---pansy commissioner. Yes--that's a generalization. It's also a generalization to say that the Irish like to imbibe and that Jews tend to be democrats. ( at least in the US) Generalizations have their documented histories and their uses.

---

pansy sport. yea. so i must be a fing pansy. it is not about Larry being part of the tennis structure. it is just his incompetence not the tennis part. I coached high school basketball for 18 years and being an outstanding tennis player takes alot more time, practice and mental toughness. Oh and height does make a big difference in tennis too.

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It isn't that he is a tennis PLAYER....it is that he was a Tennis EXECUTIVE which is NOT a ringing endorsement about growing viewership.

BearSD said:

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JK's #1 job is to land big donations so that even if incompetent Larry isn't removed soon, Cal athletics will still have more money to pay good coaches, build and maintain facilities, etc.

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Re-upping this point I made a few days ago.

If the athletic department is truly too cash poor to correct the all-time dumb mistake of hiring WJ, then that just underscores that Knowlton's #1 job is raising more money and lots of it.

Got to have enough money to put major programs on the right course if you want to be taken seriously.