Does that "yes" confirm that Wyking will be our coach next season?EricBear said:bearchamp said:
Was McNeil transfer in the works before the decision to retain WJ?
Yes.
Wyking back
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Last: 5 yr ago by concordtom
No, have only seen several posts in various places by those closer to the program who say expect two more.stu said:HKBear97! said:
Saw mention of two more as well.
Is that number associated with names?
In this case, flat out being the worst.fat_slice said:
No meaningful changes in both basketball and football. We are champions of mediocrity.
I don't think it is an objective truth that the team improved markedly over the last 3 regular season game + the tourney. It is too small of a sample size to draw that conclusion. I think Washington, Stanfurd and Colorado contributed to the wins by having off games, and WSU was just a bad team going through a really bad stretch.bearister said:
I'm not lobbying for WJ but if you watched all the games this year, I think it is an objective truth that the team improved markedly over the last 3 regular season games and in the Colorado game in the PAC 12 Tourney. Had the Bears played at that level all year they would have had a few more wins. I would have been fine with a coach upgrade although this turn of events may play into my plan to get a discounted seats upgrade.
I feel like some people (and I am not directing this at you, bearister) are saying two years is not enough time to evaluate a coach, but the last 3 or 4 games proves conclusively he turned things and had it going in the right direction.
I really give coach Jones and the team a lot of credit for continuing to battle under really difficult circumstances after starting the conference season at 0-15. But a couple of wins at the end of the year don't change my overall evaluation that coach Jones faces a mountain that he appears unable to climb. And that's before consideration of current players not returning.
I would LOVE to be wrong, and see Coach and the team achieve great success. I just don't see it happening, and I am really frustrated and sad with today's decision.
Bear in mind that was against a faltering UW team, a terrible stanfurd team and a terrible WSU team without several players. And in the Colorado game, they led the entire game after the 12:11 mark in the first half. Progress, maybe. Certainly not enough to say Wyking should stay.bearister said:sluggo said:What do you mean? In year three all the lessons WJ has been teaching will kick in. They will be a well-oiled machine running the Louisville defense. I am thinking like 22 wins, maybe 23. Am I too pessimistic?bearister said:
A team that started to take two steps forward at the end of the season just took a step backwards, which it can I'll afford to do.
Sluggo
I'm not lobbying for WJ but if you watched all the games this year, I think it is an objective truth that the team improved markedly over the last 3 regular season games and in the Colorado game in the PAC 12 Tourney. Had the Bears played at that level all year they would have had a few more wins. I would have been fine with a coach upgrade although this turn of events may play into my plan to get a discounted seats upgrade.
Eh, the only game we really looked well-coached was the UW game. We sliced up their famous zone pretty good. They really looked like they wanted to share the ball. Wazzu -- well, we played a terrible team that was short handed at home. Furd, we did get out to a nice lead but hung on while again playing bad basketball in the second half. CU game they basically asked us to beat them by giving us 20 turnovers, but we still did our usual 1 v 1 thing in the half court and could not win. Oh, and being out-rebounded like 40-20 didn't help matters. This is a really crappy decision. The best we can hope for is mediocrity -- that's the actual upside. A good coach and a couple of key players would have gotten us to the NIT/NCAA bubble type level. Now this ensures another losing year. Thank you Jim Knowlton.bearister said:sluggo said:What do you mean? In year three all the lessons WJ has been teaching will kick in. They will be a well-oiled machine running the Louisville defense. I am thinking like 22 wins, maybe 23. Am I too pessimistic?bearister said:
A team that started to take two steps forward at the end of the season just took a step backwards, which it can I'll afford to do.
Sluggo
I'm not lobbying for WJ but if you watched all the games this year, I think it is an objective truth that the team improved markedly over the last 3 regular season games and in the Colorado game in the PAC 12 Tourney. Had the Bears played at that level all year they would have had a few more wins. I would have been fine with a coach upgrade although this turn of events may play into my plan to get a discounted seats upgrade.
The Dawgs' faltering started with their loss to the Bears. Yes, uW was minus a star, but they had him down the stretch.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
lol. at least we now know that Cal officially doesn't give a **** about men's basketball. And revenue. And donations. And fans / alumni.
Sports fans in general, and I'm guessing college sports fans who are alumni in particular, are pretty loyal customers. It's much easier to keep them than to acquire replacements. If they decided to keep Jones Cal is going to learn just how much harder it is to win back lost customers or replacement customers than to keep the ones who are predisposed to stick with you through thick and thin.
(I'd like to get some confirmation beyond the one tweet that this is true)
Sports fans in general, and I'm guessing college sports fans who are alumni in particular, are pretty loyal customers. It's much easier to keep them than to acquire replacements. If they decided to keep Jones Cal is going to learn just how much harder it is to win back lost customers or replacement customers than to keep the ones who are predisposed to stick with you through thick and thin.
(I'd like to get some confirmation beyond the one tweet that this is true)
Sends the message that Cal isn't taking men's basketball seriously.
Whether this decision is that of Knowlton, Christ, or donors, it's not a good look.
Whether this decision is that of Knowlton, Christ, or donors, it's not a good look.
I thought the laughingstock would end after our loss in the Pac-12 tournament. We are going to have to endure for at least another season and perhaps beyond.BearSD said:
Sends the message that Cal isn't taking men's basketball seriously.
Whether this decision is that of Knowlton, Christ, or donors, it's not a good look.
He will need a decade before we can fairly measure the results. Team is too young. Freshmen can't even tie their shoes!! Next year might have some speed bumps as a young team learns the speed of the college game, but the year after that I can EASILY see this team almost making the NIT.
OK, just did. Questions still stand.NYCGOBEARS said:UCBerkGrad said:Support how? Purchase season tickets? Donate to the program?NYCGOBEARS said:sycasey said:
Cool, another season of not watching any games.
I will continue to support the fine student athletes who wear a Cal jersey, regardless of who the coach is.
Why don't you reread what I wrote?
DIdn't you read what he wrote? He said that he'll continue to support the students by supporting them.UCBerkGrad said:OK, just did. Questions still stand.NYCGOBEARS said:UCBerkGrad said:Support how? Purchase season tickets? Donate to the program?NYCGOBEARS said:sycasey said:
Cool, another season of not watching any games.
I will continue to support the fine student athletes who wear a Cal jersey, regardless of who the coach is.
Why don't you reread what I wrote?
Maintaining a pro-player stance on BI could be viewed as a form of support. I think the faint praise is sort of the point.
Yes, Sluggo, you are!sluggo said:What do you mean? In year three all the lessons WJ has been teaching will kick in. They will be a well-oiled machine running the Louisville defense. I am thinking like 22 wins, maybe 23. Am I too pessimistic?bearister said:
A team that started to take two steps forward at the end of the season just took a step backwards, which it can I'll afford to do.
Sluggo
Certainly we'll be in the Final Four next year!
Well put, Lou!LOUMFSG2 said:I don't think it is an objective truth that the team improved markedly over the last 3 regular season game + the tourney. It is too small of a sample size to draw that conclusion. I think Washington, Stanfurd and Colorado contributed to the wins by having off games, and WSU was just a bad team going through a really bad stretch.bearister said:
I'm not lobbying for WJ but if you watched all the games this year, I think it is an objective truth that the team improved markedly over the last 3 regular season games and in the Colorado game in the PAC 12 Tourney. Had the Bears played at that level all year they would have had a few more wins. I would have been fine with a coach upgrade although this turn of events may play into my plan to get a discounted seats upgrade.
I feel like some people (and I am not directing this at you, bearister) are saying two years is not enough time to evaluate a coach, but the last 3 or 4 games proves conclusively he turned things and had it going in the right direction.
I really give coach Jones and the team a lot of credit for continuing to battle under really difficult circumstances after starting the conference season at 0-15. But a couple of wins at the end of the year don't change my overall evaluation that coach Jones faces a mountain that he appears unable to climb. And that's before consideration of current players not returning.
I would LOVE to be wrong, and see Coach and the team achieve great success. I just don't see it happening, and I am really frustrated and sad with today's decision.
I ma a lifelong basketball lover, rather than a died in the wool Cal fan, and now am considering jumping ship after 40 + years of attending Bears games and cheering the various teams on.
Hoping enough withhold renewal, as I likely will, if Wyking returns, and hoping that the administration somehow sees the light, that to keep fans in the seats, Cal must be better than it has been under Jones.
History teaches that all is not lost. Hall of Fame coach Pete Cutino was worse than mediocre as a coach, never beating UCLA in his career until 1969 when he went on a roll that established Cal as a water polo power. Maybe WJ will find his way too.
I know the whiners will do what they do (80, anyone?) and try to snuff out dissenting opinions, but I'm okay with the decision.
Go Bears!
Go Bears!
I find it quite refreshing that cool heads prevailed and that WJ will get a third year to prove himself, if it's in fact true that he is being retained. Cuonzo Martin dug us a really deep hole when he left. Given our financial and facilities constraints, and the limited pool of basketball players who can qualify for Cal academically, rebuilding was always going to be a long process. The reflexive thing to do when things aren't going well is to change course . That may make sense in some circumstances, but not given our recent history and constraints. Fortunately, Cal Athletics is being run by an adult and not an impulsive five year old. Jim Knowlton needed to stabilize the program while working to address the long-term issues mentioned above. I suspect that next year it will be crucial that WJ demonstrate that his team can win games, or one year from now Cal will be searching for a new coach. Hopefully by then JK will have made progress on some of the issues like facilities. I've been attending Cal hoops games since 1976 and have been a season ticket holder for 30+ consecutive years. I'll be renewing my tickets and looking forward to watching these players and coaches continue to develop and improve.
Let me explain why this just drives me to COMPLETE frustration with Cal "fans".GoCal80 said:
I find it quite refreshing that cool heads prevailed and that WJ will get a third year to prove himself, if it's in fact true that he is being retained. Cuonzo Martin dug us a really deep hole when he left. Given our financial and facilities constraints, and the limited pool of basketball players who can qualify for Cal academically, rebuilding was always going to be a long process. The reflexive thing to do when things aren't going well is to change course . That may make sense in some circumstances, but not given our recent history and constraints. Fortunately, Cal Athletics is being run by an adult and not an impulsive five year old. Jim Knowlton needed to stabilize the program while working to address the long-term issues mentioned above. I suspect that next year it will be crucial that WJ demonstrate that his team can win games, or one year from now Cal will be searching for a new coach. Hopefully by then JK will have made progress on some of the issues like facilities. I've been attending Cal hoops games since 1976 and have been a season ticket holder for 30+ consecutive years. I'll be renewing my tickets and looking forward to watching these players and coaches continue to develop and improve.
Did you see ANYTHING to really make you believe that he is capable of coaching? I didn't. Paris did the same stuff he did at the end of the year as he did at the beginning. Our zone principals remained, at BEST a work in progress. Our Offense stagnated the first time people switched off that high ball screen (look it up people, it will make you a more intelligent fan). Our defensive help principals were, at best, a mystery.
The ONLY bright spot. Really the only one, was Connor. But I am not sure that was on Jones as opposed to him starting to adjust from being a giant on the high school court able to operate at will to finding out how to play in college.
Nor do I see recruiting prowness. We have, at best, a middling class coming in. We also haven't been able to hold people, McNeil now being the latest. The only bright spot there is that we are so overloaded at the 2 and 3 it might provide for better rotational balance rather than having Justin slide to the 4.
What in the WORLD are you seeing, other than "sorta" saving the buy out (offset by some amount by the drop off in sales, sponsorship interest and ancilliary revenues.
If you don't understand this is a COMPLETE disaster you don't follow BB.
The only good news is that I KNOW this disaster will be over in a year. My hope is that there are options like Turner and Travis still avaiable....so we don't have to hire some assistant that has never been a HC ever.
What do you see when you see Cal athletics - - a singular and strong commitment to losing.
It can't be. Because the money we're losing from ticket sales and lost donations is way more than his salary.I Bear said:
Clearly this was strictly a money decision!
This is absolutely terrible fiduciary stewardship.
I f'ing give up.
I will also be renewing my tickets and cheering on the Golden Bears next season. I'm assuming that Knowlton took all the factors into consideration and made what he thought was the best decision. Obviously, this one was a close call.
Go Bears!
Go Bears!
What a punch to the gut. This is just awful. We are just not capable of competing. Wyking has not shown any reason he should be back. I am embarrassed. Knowlton has lost a ton of credibility. While he seems like he's a nice guy, this seems like a no brainer. It is his job to find the money to make this happen. We are a total joke. This should not have been a close decision, Wyking should have already been fired
Big C said:
I will also be renewing my tickets and cheering on the Golden Bears next season. I'm assuming that Knowlton took all the factors into consideration and made what he thought was the best decision. Obviously, this one was a close call.
Go Bears!
And with all due respect (and I mean that), that's actually the problem. That this is even a close call.
5 wins. 31 losses.
36 games. 5 wins.
OCC losses to
Chaminade
UC Riverside . UC RIVERSIDE
Central Arkansas by 27, at home
Portland State, by 25 at home
USF by 19 at home
Fesno State by 22
Seattle... at home
I'm done.
So with you brother. He would have been canned in EVERY other D1 school that cares. The fact he is coming back simply means the Administration doesn't. It is hard to accept. It will take some time. But I am cancelling Pac-12 network and going to get my SDSU tixs upgraded. At least they understand it is entertainment and if they are going to take my ducets they have a responsibility to put a good product on the court.DavisBear said:
What a punch to the gut. This is just awful. We are just not capable of competing. Wyking has not shown any reason he should be back. I am embarrassed. Knowlton has lost a ton of credibility. Why he seems like he's a nice guy, this seems like a no brainer. It it his job to find the money to make this happen. We are a total joke. This should not have been a close decision, Wyking should have already been fired
+1 Ken. NO ONE survives that at ANY other real D1 school. NO ONE.TheFiatLux said:Big C said:
I will also be renewing my tickets and cheering on the Golden Bears next season. I'm assuming that Knowlton took all the factors into consideration and made what he thought was the best decision. Obviously, this one was a close call.
Go Bears!
And with all due respect (and I mean that), that's actually the problem. That this is even a close call.
5 wins. 31 losses.
36 games. 5 wins.
OCC losses to
Chaminade
UC Riverside . UC RIVERSIDE
Central Arkansas by 27, at home
Portland State, by 25 at home
USF by 19 at home
Fesno State by 22
Seattle... at home
I'm done.
I am in the other camp. I have no confidence in WJ. I don't feel this coaching staff is helping the players achieve their potential. I expect another last place finish in the 12-Pac. Maybe a 4-14 conference record. Attendance will get worse.GoCal80 said:
I find it quite refreshing that cool heads prevailed and that WJ will get a third year to prove himself, if it's in fact true that he is being retained. Cuonzo Martin dug us a really deep hole when he left. Given our financial and facilities constraints, and the limited pool of basketball players who can qualify for Cal academically, rebuilding was always going to be a long process. The reflexive thing to do when things aren't going well is to change course . That may make sense in some circumstances, but not given our recent history and constraints. Fortunately, Cal Athletics is being run by an adult and not an impulsive five year old. Jim Knowlton needed to stabilize the program while working to address the long-term issues mentioned above. I suspect that next year it will be crucial that WJ demonstrate that his team can win games, or one year from now Cal will be searching for a new coach. Hopefully by then JK will have made progress on some of the issues like facilities. I've been attending Cal hoops games since 1976 and have been a season ticket holder for 30+ consecutive years. I'll be renewing my tickets and looking forward to watching these players and coaches continue to develop and improve.
We will buy season tickets. My wife and I enjoy attending games, even terrible games. We will cheer and support the players.
Hope we find a decent coach a year from now.
I did read what he said and my question was how would he support them. It's not a difficult or loaded question. I'm genuinely curious what he means by support.pingpong2 said:DIdn't you read what he wrote? He said that he'll continue to support the students by supporting them.UCBerkGrad said:OK, just did. Questions still stand.NYCGOBEARS said:UCBerkGrad said:Support how? Purchase season tickets? Donate to the program?NYCGOBEARS said:sycasey said:
Cool, another season of not watching any games.
I will continue to support the fine student athletes who wear a Cal jersey, regardless of who the coach is.
Why don't you reread what I wrote?
I saw at the end of the season a team that continued to play hard for their coach despite enduring a long losing stretch and mustered a three game winning streak to close out the regular season. Let's see what he can do in his third year (if the rumored return of WJ materializes). And, we had a very limited roster.
Sigh. Nothing to say really. We are Cal.
I'll have to make the decision about my season tickets later after more thought. I was of the camp that nothing would ever dissuade me from giving up my Cal MBB tickets because I am a Cal Lifer. I'll have to figure out if I was lying about that.
Aside:
Trying to think of a comparable revenue sport power conference coach. Maybe Paul Wulff at Washington State (football)? Won a grand total of 3 games his first 2 years (counting OOC). Cal went up there and beat the Cougs 66-3 (I was there). Yet somehow WSU decided they needed to keep Wulff another 2 years - and yes he too had inherited a bad situation so there were excuses. Wulff proceeded to go 2-10 and 4-8 the next 2 years before fially getting fired. I wonder if even at the end there after the 4th year, there were Coug loyalists pointing at the drastic improvement in his 4th year... and like WJ, Wulff should be an assistant at this level, not a head coach.
Ok, back to Cal MBB:
Please tell me we did not extend the contract and/or increase the buyout.
And that next year, if we somehow "improve drastically" and win 15 games, maybe 7 in conference (I'll believe it when I see it), that we will still realize that we absolutely need to find a new coach?
I'll have to make the decision about my season tickets later after more thought. I was of the camp that nothing would ever dissuade me from giving up my Cal MBB tickets because I am a Cal Lifer. I'll have to figure out if I was lying about that.
Aside:
Trying to think of a comparable revenue sport power conference coach. Maybe Paul Wulff at Washington State (football)? Won a grand total of 3 games his first 2 years (counting OOC). Cal went up there and beat the Cougs 66-3 (I was there). Yet somehow WSU decided they needed to keep Wulff another 2 years - and yes he too had inherited a bad situation so there were excuses. Wulff proceeded to go 2-10 and 4-8 the next 2 years before fially getting fired. I wonder if even at the end there after the 4th year, there were Coug loyalists pointing at the drastic improvement in his 4th year... and like WJ, Wulff should be an assistant at this level, not a head coach.
Ok, back to Cal MBB:
Please tell me we did not extend the contract and/or increase the buyout.
And that next year, if we somehow "improve drastically" and win 15 games, maybe 7 in conference (I'll believe it when I see it), that we will still realize that we absolutely need to find a new coach?
I was as happy as anyone to see the bears win games at season's end, but I didn't see those wins as a measure of significant improvement. The Wash win was cool, their shooting turned cold as ice at the end and maybe they looked past us but...bearister said:sluggo said:What do you mean? In year three all the lessons WJ has been teaching will kick in. They will be a well-oiled machine running the Louisville defense. I am thinking like 22 wins, maybe 23. Am I too pessimistic?bearister said:
A team that started to take two steps forward at the end of the season just took a step backwards, which it can I'll afford to do.
Sluggo
I'm not lobbying for WJ but if you watched all the games this year, I think it is an objective truth that the team improved markedly over the last 3 regular season games and in the Colorado game in the PAC 12 Tourney. Had the Bears played at that level all year they would have had a few more wins. I would have been fine with a coach upgrade although this turn of events may play into my plan to get a discounted seats upgrade.
Wash St finished 11th in the league and had regular players on the bench with injuries. Stanford was 10th in the league and played us without their point guard. We won those two games by an average of six points. A case could be made that we won because we played weak teams at the right time. Beyond that, I didn't feel like I was watching an improved Cal team against Colorado.
There was some improvement in individual play during the season (Vanover) but I'll need to see a solid wins against a couple of decent teams to be convinced we are really improving.
Really disappointed we are in a situation where we have to continue with the current staff, and I'm feeling pessimistic about next season. I hope I'm wrong.
Which will make him the bestest fan because he's all about supporting students.pingpong2 said:DIdn't you read what he wrote? He said that he'll continue to support the students by supporting them.UCBerkGrad said:OK, just did. Questions still stand.NYCGOBEARS said:UCBerkGrad said:Support how? Purchase season tickets? Donate to the program?NYCGOBEARS said:
I will continue to support the fine student athletes who wear a Cal jersey, regardless of who the coach is.
Why don't you reread what I wrote?
Two things I don't want to hear about in the wake of this. The Pete Newell era for the 8,473rd time and how Cal's dominance in some third-rate sport that only a few schools care about relates to our refusal to compete in one of the two sports that actually matter.bearchamp said:
History teaches that all is not lost. Hall of Fame coach Pete Cutino was worse than mediocre as a coach, never beating UCLA in his career until 1969 when he went on a roll that established Cal as a water polo power. Maybe WJ will find his way too.
From above:Big C said:
I will also be renewing my tickets and cheering on the Golden Bears next season. I'm assuming that Knowlton took all the factors into consideration and made what he thought was the best decision. Obviously, this one was a close call.
Go Bears!
Thanks for supporting the status quo.Quote:
What do you see when you see Cal athletics - - a singular and strong commitment to losing.
I may have to keep this one. These are also my thoughts brought down to the irreducible minimum.DavisBear said:
What a punch to the gut. This is just awful. We are just not capable of competing. Wyking has not shown any reason he should be back. I am embarrassed. Knowlton has lost a ton of credibility. While he seems like he's a nice guy, this seems like a no brainer. It is his job to find the money to make this happen. We are a total joke. This should not have been a close decision, Wyking should have already been fired
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