Kyle Smith anyone?

15,420 Views | 120 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by BeachedBear
ClayK
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Advanced analytics, history of success, experience at academic institution (Columbia), local presence.

Seems like a lot better move than Jason Kidd, who hasn't bothered to get his degree and has been run out of a couple NBA jobs -- and has a reputation as a backstabber.

He was a great player, though ...
southseasbear
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Reputation as a backstabber?
NVBear78
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Signed Lou Campanelli.


Not sure I agree but wasn't there either when Lou was coaching Kidd.
MilleniaBear
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Oddly when the players grouped up to march into the ADs office to ask for a change from Lou the story goes that JK was NOT in the group. Not sure if I believe it but that was what was being disseminated.
Civil Bear
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ClayK said:

Advanced analytics, history of success, experience at academic institution (Columbia), local presence.

Seems like a lot better move than Jason Kidd, who hasn't bothered to get his degree and has been run out of a couple NBA jobs -- and has a reputation as a backstabber.

He was a great player, though ...


Kyle Smith:
Zero wins in the NCAA tourny in 9 seasons.
Zero appearances in the NCAA tourney.
Zero appearances in the NIT (until this year).
Zero times finishing better than 3rd in the Ivy League (.440 winning percentage).
Zero times finishing better than 4th in the WCC (including this year).

Zero chance of becoming Cal's head coach (I hope).
Alkiadt
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Civil Bear said:

ClayK said:

Advanced analytics, history of success, experience at academic institution (Columbia), local presence.

Seems like a lot better move than Jason Kidd, who hasn't bothered to get his degree and has been run out of a couple NBA jobs -- and has a reputation as a backstabber.

He was a great player, though ...


Kyle Smith:
Zero wins in the NCAA tourny in 9 seasons.
Zero appearances in the NCAA tourney.
Zero appearances in the NIT (until this year).
Zero times finishing better than 3rd in the Ivy League (.440 winning percentage).
Zero times finishing better than 4th in the WCC (including this year).

Zero chance of becoming Cal's head coach (I hope).

Relevant Info.
He'd get smoked on the court and in the recruiting battles.
BearSD
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NVBear78 said:

Signed Lou Campanelli.


Not sure I agree but wasn't there either when Lou was coaching Kidd.
Not just at Cal. JKidd has been accused of being a coach killer when he was a player in the NBA, and a management killer when he was a coach.

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/06/30/scotto-jason-kidd-burns-brooklyn-bridge-with-nets/

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Kidd-trying-to-clear-up-rep-as-coach-killer-2822875.php
GoCal80
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[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/brooklyn-nets/post/_/id/19596/history-of-jason-kidds-past-incidents]https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-05-24-9405240074-story.html[/url]

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/brooklyn-nets/post/_/id/19596/history-of-jason-kidds-past-incidents][url=https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-05-24-9405240074-story.html][/url]http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/brooklyn-nets/post/_/id/19596/history-of-jason-kidds-past-incidents[/url]



calgo430
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can the new coach recruit. you need players to win.
calbear80
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I would love to Jason Kidd as the new Cal coach for several reasons, one of which I cannot discuss here.

Go Bears!
wifeisafurd
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ClayK said:

Advanced analytics, history of success, experience at academic institution (Columbia), local presence.

Seems like a lot better move than Jason Kidd, who hasn't bothered to get his degree and has been run out of a couple NBA jobs -- and has a reputation as a backstabber.

He was a great player, though ...
go the extent you believe the lead BI article, Smith is not a contender.

I disagree about Kidd, but people can disagree. There are a couple other guys listed as contenders that also seem like good fits.
Jackieridgle
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ClayK said:

Advanced analytics, history of success, experience at academic institution (Columbia), local presence.

Seems like a lot better move than Jason Kidd, who hasn't bothered to get his degree and has been run out of a couple NBA jobs -- and has a reputation as a backstabber.

He was a great player, though ...


"Backstabber?" Really?
Campanelli was a raging lunatic with the 93 team. My tickets were right behind the Cal bench then and he didn't have a clue how to coach them. If one remembers Campanelli inherited: Kevin Johnson, Lenard Taylor, Dave Butler and Chris Washington.
In terms of finishing his degree, I don't care! He coached in the NBA with some success.
Big C
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Kyle Smith was the flavor-of-the-month for two months running: November and December, 2018.

I will say, though, when the Dons whupped us in Haas last season, one team looked well-coached and the other did not. We should take a closer look. Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.
PtownBear1
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The Dons seemed to unravel at the end of the season with 4 straight losses. Not sure if injuries were a factor.
LOUMFSG2
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Yeah, when they started the season at 17-3 overall, 5-1 in conference, it looked like he was on his way to a special season. However, they couldn't maintain it, and looking at his overall record, I think he is a good coach, but I don't put him at the same level of some of the other potential targets. He wouldn't be my top choice.
wifeisafurd
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Big C said:

Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.
You are absolutely correct. He looked at alternatives to Jones, and obviously narrowed the choices down. In fact, to six guys per a BI article.

I know that there some who don't like the way JK implemented the change, but now is the time to focus on picking a new coach. JK seems like a deliberative guy, and I expect whoever he selects will be vetted thoroughly with all stakeholders.
Big C
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Kyle Smith used to be at Columbia? Hey, Grant Mullins, be honest now, how's Kyle Smith as a coach? Please elaborate...

(That's a conversation that could've/should've happened last month, too. Does Knowlton even know who Grant is?)
OneKeg
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Civil Bear said:

ClayK said:

Advanced analytics, history of success, experience at academic institution (Columbia), local presence.

Seems like a lot better move than Jason Kidd, who hasn't bothered to get his degree and has been run out of a couple NBA jobs -- and has a reputation as a backstabber.

He was a great player, though ...


Kyle Smith:
Zero wins in the NCAA tourny in 9 seasons.
Zero appearances in the NCAA tourney.
Zero appearances in the NIT (until this year).
Zero times finishing better than 3rd in the Ivy League (.440 winning percentage).
Zero times finishing better than 4th in the WCC (including this year).

Zero chance of becoming Cal's head coach (I hope).

I thought USF didn't even make the NIT this year. Got a CBI invite but declined I believe.

Something must have happened with that team - they were looking so good early in the year. At one point, they were 17-3 (5-1 in the WCC), with their only losses being:
- a 4-point loss to eventual NCAA 6-seed Buffalo.
- a 13-point loss to eventual NCAA 1-seed Gonzaga
- a 2-point road loss to UCSB, which hurts a bit, but at least UCSB was 22-10 this year.

And while most of their other opponents during that stretch were weak (including Cal), one was a win over eventual NCAA 11-seed St. Mary's.

I was on the Kyle Smith bandwagon at that point. I think I've fallen off it since then.
SFCityBear
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wifeisafurd said:

Big C said:

Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.
You are absolutely correct. He looked at alternatives to Jones, and obviously narrowed the choices down. In fact, to six guys per a BI article.

I know that there some who don't like the way JK implemented the change, but now is the time to focus on picking a new coach. JK seems like a deliberative guy, and I expect whoever he selects will be vetted thoroughly with all stakeholders.
Right or wrong, he seemed deliberative up to the point in making his original decision, which was to support Jones. Then all it took was a conference phone call with 3 Dads to change his mind, and fire Jones. Right or wrong, that did seem impulsive, and not deliberative. I hope it is now a lesson learned, and he will cover all the bases with his first hire as AD.
SFCityBear
calumnus
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Big C said:

Kyle Smith was the flavor-of-the-month for two months running: November and December, 2018.

I will say, though, when the Dons whupped us in Haas last season, one team looked well-coached and the other did not. We should take a closer look. Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.


Kyle Smith is a good, smart, coach, he took my other alma mater, Columbia, from having been horrible forever to one of the best in the Ivy League, beating Russell Turner's Irvine in the CBI to win that tournament.

He'd be a solid hire, just not an exciting hire. He'd excel at coaching the currrent group. A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.


Genocide Joe 58
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calumnus said:


A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.
How so?
BearlyCareAnymore
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Yogi Bear said:

calumnus said:


A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.
How so?
You know what doesn't fit? Losing.

One good season. Career losing record in conference. Everybody hyped up after a good start this year and then goes 4-7 to end the season, and some people still attached to 17-3 like the rest of the season didn't just happen. Absolutely nothing in his record to indicate has the success expected for the job.

EricBear
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Staff
SFCityBear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Big C said:

Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.
You are absolutely correct. He looked at alternatives to Jones, and obviously narrowed the choices down. In fact, to six guys per a BI article.

I know that there some who don't like the way JK implemented the change, but now is the time to focus on picking a new coach. JK seems like a deliberative guy, and I expect whoever he selects will be vetted thoroughly with all stakeholders.
Right or wrong, he seemed deliberative up to the point in making his original decision, which was to support Jones. Then all it took was a conference phone call with 3 Dads to change his mind, and fire Jones. Right or wrong, that did seem impulsive, and not deliberative. I hope it is now a lesson learned, and he will cover all the bases with his first hire as AD.
This is not quite right. The phone call to which you appear to be referring occurred two days after the loss to Colorado.
Cal8285
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SFCityBear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Big C said:

Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.
You are absolutely correct. He looked at alternatives to Jones, and obviously narrowed the choices down. In fact, to six guys per a BI article.

I know that there some who don't like the way JK implemented the change, but now is the time to focus on picking a new coach. JK seems like a deliberative guy, and I expect whoever he selects will be vetted thoroughly with all stakeholders.
Right or wrong, he seemed deliberative up to the point in making his original decision, which was to support Jones. Then all it took was a conference phone call with 3 Dads to change his mind, and fire Jones. Right or wrong, that did seem impulsive, and not deliberative. I hope it is now a lesson learned, and he will cover all the bases with his first hire as AD.
Don't go around believing everything you read. Communication may not have been great in this process, I don't know. And neither you nor I have any knowledge as to whether Knowlton made an original decision to retain.

Did he say some things that led some people to believe he was going to keep Jones? According to some, yes (I have no direct knowledge, I'll trust some of those who have posted here). If he had made the decision that, if he had the resources and the support from up top, he was going to fire Jones, but did not yet have the resources and support from up top, was he correct to act as though parties should assume Jones would be retained? Should he act as though Jones had his support? Absolutely. If Knowlton wanted to terminate but may have been unable to for reasons beyond his control, then he could not let anybody know that. If an AD is forced to keep a coach he wants to fire, he absolutely needs to act like he wants to keep the coach. There is no realistic choice otherwise. Donors he talked to, coaches he talked to, may all be unhappy when the termination comes down that they were "misled," they may think that he pulled a 180, but that is absolutely what a competent AD should do.

Is it possible Knowlton had made a decision to retain and then reversed course after a simple call with 3 dads to change his mind? I suppose, but it seems very unlikely. In that case, Knowlton is incompetent, and I don't think he is. It seems more likely that he needed to push his timeline slightly because of the inaccurate report that he was retaining Jones when he wanted to terminate Jones. He starts to hear from pissed people about the inaccurate report, and pissed posters in BI is acceptable in the short term, even pissed donors and season ticket holders, but pissed parents and players, perhaps, not quite so much. I speculate that Knowlton decided to push his announcement up a little to deal with such issues, but that may be inaccurate.

Don't judge Knowlton as taking impulsive action based on the assumptions of others about what was going on that could be based on Knowlton's deliberate misleading statements of desire to retain. Don't assume a decision was made due to a call from 3 dads. There are no reasonable facts to support this beyond statements some here claim, which statements Knowlton should have been making unless he knew for sure he had the resources and support to fire Jones.

Bottom line, we don't know what really happened, and we probably never will. If you knew all the facts, you might say that Knowlton did everything the right way. Or you might say he screwed up. Without the facts, you just don't know which.
joe amos yaks
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Mike Anderson, xCoach at uArk, name has been put forward for consideration for next BB coach.

edit.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
tsubamoto2001
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For what?

joe amos yaks said:

Mike Anderson, xCoach at uArk, name has been put forward.
Cal8285
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OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

calumnus said:


A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.
How so?
You know what doesn't fit? Losing.

One good season. Career losing record in conference. Everybody hyped up after a good start this year and then goes 4-7 to end the season, and some people still attached to 17-3 like the rest of the season didn't just happen. Absolutely nothing in his record to indicate has the success expected for the job.


Yeah, but he won the CIT in 2016 with Columbia, and was CBI runner-up in 2018. If that isn't being a winner, I don't know what is.

Next thing, you're going to tell me Ben Braun beating Coach K and going to the Sweet 16 with Eastern Michigan didn't mean he was going to be the next Pete Newell. You're going to tell me that Cuonzo Martin's Sweet 16 with Tennessee right before being hired by Cal didn't mean that he knew how to coach an offense. You're going to tell me that Todd Bozeman taking Cal to the Sweet 16 as interim didn't mean he knew more than "Two baskets and a ball" and how to pay recruits' parents to get their kids to come to Cal. Geez.

Kyle has 4 consecutive WCC 4th place finishes! Consistency!! Don't we want that? Yes, St. Mary's, Gonzaga, and BYU always take the top 3 finishes in the WCC, they are generally the only decent teams in the conference, but Kyle Smith has gotten USF to where it can consistently finish in first place among the also-rans of the WCC!! You call that being a losing? And sure, overall a losing conference record when you count the Ivy League, but in his only 3 years in the WCC, the last 3 years, a blistering 28-24!!

All we need is for the Pac-12 to continue on its current downward path, where soon there won't be any teams better than the also-rans of the WCC, and I feel confident Kyle Smith can lead the Bears to conference championships in the years to come. Don't know why you're so down on his prospects for success.
Big C
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OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

calumnus said:


A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.
How so?
You know what doesn't fit? Losing.

One good season. Career losing record in conference. Everybody hyped up after a good start this year and then goes 4-7 to end the season, and some people still attached to 17-3 like the rest of the season didn't just happen. Absolutely nothing in his record to indicate has the success expected for the job.


All the candidates come with flaws. A Travis DeCuire would seem to have less question marks than Smith, sure, but I think Smith is worth taking a closer look at. As I stated above, how ringing an endorsement does Grant Mullins give him? These are the contacts with credibility that Knowlton needs to mine.

Of the guys whose backgrounds I know pretty well, the only ones I clearly like better than Smith are Jason Kidd and Travis DeCuire. (I used to like Turner more, until Queengate.) But I'd want to find out a lot more.

Right now, I'd say it's even money that it'll be somebody we've hardly talked about... which could be fine.
bearister
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calumnus said:

Big C said:

Kyle Smith was the flavor-of-the-month for two months running: November and December, 2018.

I will say, though, when the Dons whupped us in Haas last season, one team looked well-coached and the other did not. We should take a closer look. Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.


Kyle Smith is a good, smart, coach, he took my other alma mater, Columbia, from having been horrible forever to one of the best in the Ivy League, beating Russell Turner's Irvine in the CBI to win that tournament.

He'd be a solid hire, just not an exciting hire. He'd excel at coaching the currrent group. A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.





I'm too gun shy to suggest anyone as the new HC but I did spend a weekend many years ago with Randy Bennett and Kyle Smith and I was far more impressed with Kyle. I think the key to Bennett's success is his Australian recruiting pipeline. He always has 6 or 7 Aussies on the Gaels at the same time that have been playing fundamentally sound basketball with each other since they were little boys. We cannot really Judge Randy until you sever his Aussie pipeline and make him recruit in the same pool as everyone else.
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Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bearister
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OneKeg said:

Civil Bear said:

ClayK said:

Advanced analytics, history of success, experience at academic institution (Columbia), local presence.

Seems like a lot better move than Jason Kidd, who hasn't bothered to get his degree and has been run out of a couple NBA jobs -- and has a reputation as a backstabber.

He was a great player, though ...


Kyle Smith:
Zero wins in the NCAA tourny in 9 seasons.
Zero appearances in the NCAA tourney.
Zero appearances in the NIT (until this year).
Zero times finishing better than 3rd in the Ivy League (.440 winning percentage).
Zero times finishing better than 4th in the WCC (including this year).

Zero chance of becoming Cal's head coach (I hope).

I thought USF didn't even make the NIT this year. Got a CBI invite but declined I believe.

Something must have happened with that team - they were looking so good early in the year. At one point, they were 17-3 (5-1 in the WCC), with their only losses being:
- a 4-point loss to eventual NCAA 6-seed Buffalo.
- a 13-point loss to eventual NCAA 1-seed Gonzaga
- a 2-point road loss to UCSB, which hurts a bit, but at least UCSB was 22-10 this year.

And while most of their other opponents during that stretch were weak (including Cal), one was a win over eventual NCAA 11-seed St. Mary's.

I was on the Kyle Smith bandwagon at that point. I think I've fallen off it since then.


...I fell off the other wagon attending Cal's home games. I need a new coach, a sponsor and rehab.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Genocide Joe 58
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joe amos yaks said:

Mike Anderson, xCoach at uArk, name has been put forward for consideration for next BB coach.

edit.

I don't know who put his name forth, but I'd hired him in about 5 seconds if he said he was interested. And no, I don't care what tsubamoto is going to say about him.

P.S. Ironically, his buyout at Arkansas was the exact same as the buyout for Wyking Jones if you still imagine that Cal AD's know how to negotiate good contracts.
BearlyCareAnymore
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Big C said:

OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

calumnus said:


A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.
How so?
You know what doesn't fit? Losing.

One good season. Career losing record in conference. Everybody hyped up after a good start this year and then goes 4-7 to end the season, and some people still attached to 17-3 like the rest of the season didn't just happen. Absolutely nothing in his record to indicate has the success expected for the job.


All the candidates come with flaws. A Travis DeCuire would seem to have less question marks than Smith, sure, but I think Smith is worth taking a closer look at. As I stated above, how ringing an endorsement does Grant Mullins give him? These are the contacts with credibility that Knowlton needs to mine.

Of the guys whose backgrounds I know pretty well, the only ones I clearly like better than Smith are Jason Kidd and Travis DeCuire. (I used to like Turner more, until Queengate.) But I'd want to find out a lot more.

Right now, I'd say it's even money that it'll be somebody we've hardly talked about... which could be fine.
All candidates come with flaws. Not winning is a bad flaw. It is a much bigger flaw then calling someone Queen.

Decuire does not have fewer question marks. Question mark means uncertainty. Not certain flaws. Smith's record is not a question mark.

65-71 in two lesser conferences. He never finished higher than 3rd in the 8 team Ivy League. Never finished higher than 4th in the 10 team WCC. He took over a USF program that went 8-10 in conference and has gone 10-8, 9-9, and 9-7.

He's coached 9 years. 4 of them have been really crappy. 4 of them have been mediocre (as in never better than 2 games over .500 in conference) 1 was good.

I don't care what a former player thinks. I don't care who was impressed with him over dinner or shaking hands at some event. Having good results is a qualifying factor. He doesn't qualify.
BearlyCareAnymore
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Yogi Bear said:

joe amos yaks said:

Mike Anderson, xCoach at uArk, name has been put forward for consideration for next BB coach.

edit.

I don't know who put his name forth, but I'd hired him in about 5 seconds if he said he was interested. And no, I don't care what tsubamoto is going to say about him.

P.S. Ironically, his buyout at Arkansas was the exact same as the buyout for Wyking Jones if you still imagine that Cal AD's know how to negotiate good contracts.
I don't know Yogi. You said we should have dumped Braun after 8 years. His 8 year record at Arkansas is virtually identical to Braun's first 8 years at Cal and Braun did better in post season. I wouldn't reject him out of hand, but I certainly wouldn't hire him in 5 seconds. It may be the best we could do, but I'd be a little disappointed if so. Personally, for Cal I prefer to go with a little risk for more upside.
tsubamoto2001
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I don't think it's fair to use the Aussie-pipeline against Randy. At SMC, you are not going to beat out HM schools for good HS talent. So where else does he get talent then? JC's or transfers? It's like trying to judge Mark Few and saying his international pipeline distorts his rep. The Gonzaga program is much different without guys like Ronny Turiaf, Kevin Pangos, Rui Hachimura, and others.

And Bennett is a good evaluator in general, Aussie or not. He had the wherewithal to take Jordan Ford, who was deemed to not be good enough by Cal.

bearister said:

calumnus said:

Big C said:

Kyle Smith was the flavor-of-the-month for two months running: November and December, 2018.

I will say, though, when the Dons whupped us in Haas last season, one team looked well-coached and the other did not. We should take a closer look. Heck, since Knowlton has had this issue on his radar for months, he probably already has.


Kyle Smith is a good, smart, coach, he took my other alma mater, Columbia, from having been horrible forever to one of the best in the Ivy League, beating Russell Turner's Irvine in the CBI to win that tournament.

He'd be a solid hire, just not an exciting hire. He'd excel at coaching the currrent group. A much better fit than Turner. Probably a good plan b or c.





I'm too gun shy to suggest anyone as the new HC but I did spend a weekend many years ago with Randy Bennett and Kyle Smith and I was far more impressed with Kyle. I think the key to Bennett's success is his Australian recruiting pipeline. He always has 6 or 7 Aussies on the Gaels at the same time that have been playing fundamentally sound basketball with each other since they were little boys. We cannot really Judge Randy until you sever his Aussie pipeline and make him recruit in the same pool as everyone else.
tsubamoto2001
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I'm glad you don't care what I think, but tell me why you'd go for Mike Anderson? He's had some success, true, but Arkansas was a tailor-made job for him (former assistant of Nolan Richardson) and he couldn't prevent his firing. What went wrong? Why not go after Ben Howland if we're looking at retreads? He's at least a West Coast guy.

I just prefer someone that has some upside left, not an older guy that failed in a favorable situation.

Yogi Bear said:

joe amos yaks said:

Mike Anderson, xCoach at uArk, name has been put forward for consideration for next BB coach.

edit.

I don't know who put his name forth, but I'd hired him in about 5 seconds if he said he was interested. And no, I don't care what tsubamoto is going to say about him.

P.S. Ironically, his buyout at Arkansas was the exact same as the buyout for Wyking Jones if you still imagine that Cal AD's know how to negotiate good contracts.
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