Jason Kidd
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Sounded to me like he wants the Lakers job and isn't eager to get to work for Cal in time to bring in some big name recruits.BearGreg said:
Kidd covets a return to coaching per ESPN
We could really screw ourselves by waiting too long on Kidd, then having no good options once he finally decides to burst our bubble.
It's all just entertainment, so find a way to enjoy it.
The refs are there to feed your hatred addiction and keep the games close.
The refs are there to feed your hatred addiction and keep the games close.
Kidd: DUI, domestic abuse, checkered NBA coaching career with limited success. No college experience. Limited connections, we assume, with the club scene and potential recruits.
Oh, no college degree.
He played at Cal, though ...
Oh, no college degree.
He played at Cal, though ...
Hot garbage take.ClayK said:
Kidd: DUI, domestic abuse, checkered NBA coaching career with limited success. No college experience. Limited connections, we assume, with the club scene and potential recruits.
Oh, no college degree.
He played at Cal, though ...
Kidd would be THE game-changing hire. Would come with notable (basketball-relevant) alumni backing and from what i gather, an injection of funding/support that would make a dedicated practice facility a reality.
AAU coaches would be way more receptive to Kidd than any coach we've likely ever had. Limited connections my a$$.
Also managing and coaching NBA millionaires in my estimation is a lot harder than coaching college kids. I think Kidd might do a lot better at the collegiate level than you give him credit for.
Going for the "safe" atypical Cal hire will ensure nothing more than the continuation of program apathy and a ceiling of NIT bids or the occasional 1st round flame-out for the program.
BeggarEd said:Hot garbage take.ClayK said:
Kidd: DUI, domestic abuse, checkered NBA coaching career with limited success. No college experience. Limited connections, we assume, with the club scene and potential recruits.
Oh, no college degree.
He played at Cal, though ...
Kidd would be THE game-changing hire. Would come with notable (basketball-relevant) alumni backing and from what i gather, an injection of funding/support that would make a dedicated practice facility a reality.
AAU coaches would be way more receptive to Kidd than any coach we've likely ever had. Limited connections my a$$.
Also managing and coaching NBA millionaires in my estimation is a lot harder than coaching college kids. I think Kidd might do a lot better at the collegiate level than you give him credit for.
Going for the "safe" atypical Cal hire will ensure nothing more than the continuation of program apathy and a ceiling of NIT bids or the occasional 1st round flame-out for the program.
He would be the big splash hire but not sure if he's the game changing hire. If he really learned how to coach during his time with the Nets and Bucks so be it. But we saw that Cuonzo had more coaching experience and could recruit 5 stars, but we discovered that he couldn't really coach offense. I'm for considering Jason, but I don't want a Cuonzo 2.0.
He strikes me as an unlikely program savior....kind of a lesser committed Joe Kapp. He might be a plus recruiter and I don't question his leadership attributes but I suspect we be just a way station on his way back to the NBA There's also the suspicion that superstars often are busts as coaches. I'm OK with a guy using Cal as a stepping stone if, in the process, the program gets stabilized and back on track but I wonder if Kidd can do that.
Joe Kapp was an actor for like a decade following his playing career and had never coached at any level. Not a relevant comparison in my opinion.59bear said:
He strikes me as an unlikely program savior....kind of a lesser committed Joe Kapp. He might be a plus recruiter and I don't question his leadership attributes but I suspect we be just a way station on his way back to the NBA There's also the suspicion that superstars often are busts as coaches. I'm OK with a guy using Cal as a stepping stone if, in the process, the program gets stabilized and back on track but I wonder if Kidd can do that.
Worst case, if Kidd is not a great coach, a stint here would more than likely result in a new practice facility, a lot more buzz around the program, and an enhanced level of recruiting.
The guy has personally donated 7 figures to Cal, so I have no doubt he cares about the long-term health of the program.
BeggarEd said:Joe Kapp was an actor for like a decade following his playing career and had never coached at any level. Not a relevant comparison in my opinion.59bear said:
He strikes me as an unlikely program savior....kind of a lesser committed Joe Kapp. He might be a plus recruiter and I don't question his leadership attributes but I suspect we be just a way station on his way back to the NBA There's also the suspicion that superstars often are busts as coaches. I'm OK with a guy using Cal as a stepping stone if, in the process, the program gets stabilized and back on track but I wonder if Kidd can do that.
Worst case, if Kidd is not a great coach, a stint here would more than likely result in a new practice facility, a lot more buzz around the program, and an enhanced level of recruiting.
The guy has personally donated 7 figures to Cal, so I have no doubt he cares about the long-term health of the program.
If Kidd were to come to Cal, he'd have a large vested interest in the program being successful.
59bear said:
He strikes me as an unlikely program savior....kind of a lesser committed Joe Kapp. He might be a plus recruiter and I don't question his leadership attributes but I suspect we be just a way station on his way back to the NBA There's also the suspicion that superstars often are busts as coaches. I'm OK with a guy using Cal as a stepping stone if, in the process, the program gets stabilized and back on track but I wonder if Kidd can do that.
Kidd had some success at the NBA level. Joe Kapp was not a coach and, truthfully, is a total imbecile.
Kidd would be able to recruit. He could make recruiting connections instantaneously. A well sourced rumor says he would love to coach Cal, but without a degree it may never come to fruition.
I understand why someone might compare a Kidd hire to Kapp, but Kidd is immensely more qualified and not a buffoon like Joe Kapp!
Jackie does not hold back.
We should HOPE someone uses Cal as a stepping stone to the NBA!!!
That means that we are relevant, winning and the program is in MUCH better shape than it has been in my lifetime.
Anyone using that fear as a dismissive criterion has officially been eliminated from the BI search committee!
That means that we are relevant, winning and the program is in MUCH better shape than it has been in my lifetime.
Anyone using that fear as a dismissive criterion has officially been eliminated from the BI search committee!
Maybe harder but definitely different. You don't have to monitor their classwork or deal with their dads.BeggarEd said:
Also managing and coaching NBA millionaires in my estimation is a lot harder than coaching college kids.
2-and-done, like he was as a player?59bear said:
I'm OK with a guy using Cal as a stepping stone if, in the process, the program gets stabilized and back on track but I wonder if Kidd can do that.
Enjoys Sewing's, Anticevic's and JHD's senior years (McNeill too if Kidd somehow convinces him to stay).
Vanover goes pro after his junior year.
A couple 1 and dones also go pro after Kidd brings them in for a year.
Kidd goes back to coaching in the NBA and the next coach is left with Matt Bradley and whatever develops out of the rest of Wyking Jones' two recruiting classes.
It's all just entertainment, so find a way to enjoy it.
The refs are there to feed your hatred addiction and keep the games close.
The refs are there to feed your hatred addiction and keep the games close.
Not if he does so after 1 year.BeachedBear said:
We should HOPE someone uses Cal as a stepping stone to the NBA!!!
That means that we are relevant, winning and the program is in MUCH better shape than it has been in my lifetime.
Anyone using that fear as a dismissive criterion has officially been eliminated from the BI search committee!
Remember Steve Mariucci?
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
He took a team in the Bucks that won 15 games the season before he got there and was +26 in the win column. That has to count for something. The problem is that nearly all of us didn't/don't follow the Eastern Conference and especially the Kidd era Bucks.KoreAmBear said:
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
I will say it again, the person that the AD should call is Kerr. I can't think of another person that is close to the program (aka his son was a gosh darn BEAR!), knows Jason and knows what was (or wasn't) done with the Bucks and probably has a decent feel for how that would translate to the college game. Now again, Eastern conference so not necessarily top of mind but way better than any of us that are looking at ESPN season summaries and trying to glean something.
Monty? Maybe. But he wasn't involved in the show when Jason was coaching.
You can't really call his peers who are not part of this program and expect an objective response. You have to consider the inherent bias. Who is going to burn another player that played during their time?socaltownie said:He took a team in the Bucks that won 15 games the season before he got there and was +26 in the win column. That has to count for something. The problem is that nearly all of us didn't/don't follow the Eastern Conference and especially the Kidd era Bucks.KoreAmBear said:
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
I will say it again, the person that the AD should call is Kerr. I can't think of another person that is close to the program (aka his son was a gosh darn BEAR!), knows Jason and knows what was (or wasn't) done with the Bucks and probably has a decent feel for how that would translate to the college game. Now again, Eastern conference so not necessarily top of mind but way better than any of us that are looking at ESPN season summaries and trying to glean something.
Monty? Maybe. But he wasn't involved in the show when Jason was coaching.
Kidd seems to be engendering extreme positive or extreme negative reactions. Honestly, I don't have strong feelings either way. However, a few points:KoreAmBear said:
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
1. Regarding off the court issues. I definitely would not want to hire the Jason Kidd that left Cal or the one that was around up to 5 years thereafter. It would definitely be important to me that his record since then be reviewed. Honestly, I haven't kept up with him over the years to know how he has matured. I would forgive stupid behavior in a 25 year old who has been subject to adoration since he was 13, but absolutely, I'd want evidence that the 25 year old grew into a man.
2. Not having a degree. Don't care one bit. It would not make him any more qualified for the job.
3. He has 2 significant positives in his favor. The Alums would love him and he would either boost ticket sales or at least stop the bleeding.
4. He has 1 more potentially significant positive. Recruiting. His name is big enough that kids know who he is even if they were young when he played. His profile gives him the potential to recruit to a higher level than other candidates. But it is only potential. If he thinks he can walk in and say "I'm Jason Kidd" and get commits, he will be wrong. He'll have to be willing to work for it and he'll have to be good at it. Something that is unknown.
5. He isn't Joe Kapp. Kapp didn't have a day of coaching experience. Honestly, Kapp might have been successful if he had kept his assistant coaches and let them do the coaching while keeping himself to shaking hands with alums and walking around practices clapping and shouting "the bear will not quit". This formula wouldn't work in basketball in any case where you do not have the equivalent of OC's and DC's
6. We should not hire Jason Kidd the player or Jason Kidd the former Cal star. We need to hire Jason Kidd the coach. It would be admittedly fun to have him back, but the fun would die pretty quickly if we don't win. Wins are fun. Losses are not. Give me the candidate that maximizes wins.
7. I see no reason to believe that he will stay at Cal because he is an alum. I see know reason to believe he will use us as a stepping stone more than anyone else. Hire the best guy and let that issue play out as it does. You can't control it anyway.
8. I don't have a great read on his NBA coaching. He took two teams from terrible to mediocrity. Didn't manage to take the second team beyond that. I haven't seen him coach a game. I defer to those who know better.
9. KAB - you keep saying you don't want another Cuonzo. I don't either, but I don't know what leads you to believe that the risk is higher that this is the case with Kidd than with any other candidate. I'm curious to know what makes you think that.
10. Following on to that, though, I keep seeing that we don't want a Kapp or a Bozeman, or a Cuonzo or a fill in the blank. We can't just look at all of the failed coaches Cal has had (and oh there have been many) and say candidates kinda sorta look like them if you squint and disqualify them. We need to find what is good fo us now.
11. Cal has got to think about what works for Cal. The biggest red flag on Jones was the type of schemes he wanted to run. He was never going to be able to recruit the players to run those schemes at Cal. Personally, I think Cal has to go to more of a mid major strategy unless and until they think they have a coach that can recruit to something better. Running a system that requires us to recruit like Kentucky won't work.
Kerr? Unless JK is an idiot and a horrible people persont that hasn't cultivated a relationship with Kerr I can't think of a better person.KoreAmBear said:You can't really call his peers who are not part of this program and expect an objective response. You have to consider the inherent bias. Who is going to burn another player that played during their time?socaltownie said:He took a team in the Bucks that won 15 games the season before he got there and was +26 in the win column. That has to count for something. The problem is that nearly all of us didn't/don't follow the Eastern Conference and especially the Kidd era Bucks.KoreAmBear said:
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
I will say it again, the person that the AD should call is Kerr. I can't think of another person that is close to the program (aka his son was a gosh darn BEAR!), knows Jason and knows what was (or wasn't) done with the Bucks and probably has a decent feel for how that would translate to the college game. Now again, Eastern conference so not necessarily top of mind but way better than any of us that are looking at ESPN season summaries and trying to glean something.
Monty? Maybe. But he wasn't involved in the show when Jason was coaching.
A) His son played for the program and as a PROUD dad on Senior day clearly would have an opinion of what it is like to be a player for Cal (along with his resume at ZOna playing in the Pac-12)
B) He coached in the NBA. He should have a clear undersatnding of what that means and what the delta is to trying to coach in college. Not as great a one as others because he never coached in college but I think, again, see A.
C) He coached against Kidd. Better people than I with more time will go look at the head to head records. So he would clearly have at least some opinions about how JK did with the Bucks.
D) He really isn't going to burn Kidd and I have trust (not sure why but I do) that he isn't going to oversell to Cal to get him away from the Lakers or undersell to get him to go be with the Lakers to beat them up.
Or we could ask Lavin and Walton. I know who _I_ would call.
"4. He has 1 more potentially significant positive. Recruiting. His name is big enough that kids know who he is even if they were young when he played. His profile gives him the potential to recruit to a higher level than other candidates. But it is only potential. If he thinks he can walk in and say "I'm Jason Kidd" and get commits, he will be wrong. He'll have to be willing to work for it and he'll have to be good at it. Something that is unknown."
That isn't what he says. He says "I played for nearly 20 years in the Pros and coached for 5. I have a MUCH better understanding than any of these numbnuts int he conference (OK, not that part) as to what it will take for your son to get there."
That is why he is going to be an elite recruiter, with a ceiling as high as admissions will allow it to be. And lets be even more blunt on that - the personal relationships he has with major donors (BECAUSE HE HIMSELF IS ONE....SERIOUSLY, WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THE IDEA THAT ONE OF THE CANDIDATES ON THE LIST HAS DONATED OVER A MILLION DOLLARS TO THE PROGRAM!!) he would have a shot at getting out from the Dirks rule.
That isn't what he says. He says "I played for nearly 20 years in the Pros and coached for 5. I have a MUCH better understanding than any of these numbnuts int he conference (OK, not that part) as to what it will take for your son to get there."
That is why he is going to be an elite recruiter, with a ceiling as high as admissions will allow it to be. And lets be even more blunt on that - the personal relationships he has with major donors (BECAUSE HE HIMSELF IS ONE....SERIOUSLY, WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THE IDEA THAT ONE OF THE CANDIDATES ON THE LIST HAS DONATED OVER A MILLION DOLLARS TO THE PROGRAM!!) he would have a shot at getting out from the Dirks rule.
Re #9 I just don't know if Jason has the coaching knowledge (not just experience, knowledge and that's different than player knowledge which obviously he was one of the best ever) to get the players knowing what to do. I just think successful former players generally seem to rely more on motivation, inspiration and player credibility than substantive coaching. But largely I don't know about Jason's coaching chops, so the interviewers must really dig deep on his coaching knowledge, philosophy and plan. It speaks well of him that he took a losing team and got them to the playoffs. It does not speak well of him that the Bucks took off after he left. Jason's an intriguing possibility, but I'd want to really go deep on the due diligence with him.OaktownBear said:Kidd seems to be engendering extreme positive or extreme negative reactions. Honestly, I don't have strong feelings either way. However, a few points:KoreAmBear said:
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
1. Regarding off the court issues. I definitely would not want to hire the Jason Kidd that left Cal or the one that was around up to 5 years thereafter. It would definitely be important to me that his record since then be reviewed. Honestly, I haven't kept up with him over the years to know how he has matured. I would forgive stupid behavior in a 25 year old who has been subject to adoration since he was 13, but absolutely, I'd want evidence that the 25 year old grew into a man.
2. Not having a degree. Don't care one bit. It would not make him any more qualified for the job.
3. He has 2 significant positives in his favor. The Alums would love him and he would either boost ticket sales or at least stop the bleeding.
4. He has 1 more potentially significant positive. Recruiting. His name is big enough that kids know who he is even if they were young when he played. His profile gives him the potential to recruit to a higher level than other candidates. But it is only potential. If he thinks he can walk in and say "I'm Jason Kidd" and get commits, he will be wrong. He'll have to be willing to work for it and he'll have to be good at it. Something that is unknown.
5. He isn't Joe Kapp. Kapp didn't have a day of coaching experience. Honestly, Kapp might have been successful if he had kept his assistant coaches and let them do the coaching while keeping himself to shaking hands with alums and walking around practices clapping and shouting "the bear will not quit". This formula wouldn't work in basketball in any case where you do not have the equivalent of OC's and DC's
6. We should not hire Jason Kidd the player or Jason Kidd the former Cal star. We need to hire Jason Kidd the coach. It would be admittedly fun to have him back, but the fun would die pretty quickly if we don't win. Wins are fun. Losses are not. Give me the candidate that maximizes wins.
7. I see no reason to believe that he will stay at Cal because he is an alum. I see know reason to believe he will use us as a stepping stone more than anyone else. Hire the best guy and let that issue play out as it does. You can't control it anyway.
8. I don't have a great read on his NBA coaching. He took two teams from terrible to mediocrity. Didn't manage to take the second team beyond that. I haven't seen him coach a game. I defer to those who know better.
9. KAB - you keep saying you don't want another Cuonzo. I don't either, but I don't know what leads you to believe that the risk is higher that this is the case with Kidd than with any other candidate. I'm curious to know what makes you think that.
10. Following on to that, though, I keep seeing that we don't want a Kapp or a Bozeman, or a Cuonzo or a fill in the blank. We can't just look at all of the failed coaches Cal has had (and oh there have been many) and say candidates kinda sorta look like them if you squint and disqualify them. We need to find what is good fo us now.
11. Cal has got to think about what works for Cal. The biggest red flag on Jones was the type of schemes he wanted to run. He was never going to be able to recruit the players to run those schemes at Cal. Personally, I think Cal has to go to more of a mid major strategy unless and until they think they have a coach that can recruit to something better. Running a system that requires us to recruit like Kentucky won't work.
Totally agree here. It is one of those hires for which managers get paid the big bucks: Not an OBVIOUS homerun but could be a grandslam or a 3 pitch strikeout. AD's get paid big bucks and needs experience (aka NOT Mike Williams) to figure that out.KoreAmBear said:
Re #9 I just don't know if Jason has the coaching knowledge (not just experience, knowledge and that's different than player knowledge which obviously he was one of the best ever) to get the players knowing what to do. I just think successful former players generally seem to rely more on motivation, inspiration and player credibility than substantive coaching. But largely I don't know about Jason's coaching chops, so the interviewers must really dig deep on his coaching knowledge, philosophy and plan. It speaks well of him that he took a losing team and got them to the playoffs. It does not speak well of him that the Bucks took off after he left. Jason's an intriguing possibility, but I'd want to really go deep on the due diligence with him.
1. He got a DWI at the age of 39 after running his car into a telephone poll. But he was still learning, and I bet he is a super guy right now. And I guess he could not help punching his wife in the face at age 28. Celebrity will do that to you.OaktownBear said:
Kidd seems to be engendering extreme positive or extreme negative reactions. Honestly, I don't have strong feelings either way. However, a few points:
1. Regarding off the court issues. I definitely would not want to hire the Jason Kidd that left Cal or the one that was around up to 5 years thereafter. It would definitely be important to me that his record since then be reviewed. Honestly, I haven't kept up with him over the years to know how he has matured. I would forgive stupid behavior in a 25 year old who has been subject to adoration since he was 13, but absolutely, I'd want evidence that the 25 year old grew into a man.
2. Not having a degree. Don't care one bit. It would not make him any more qualified for the job.
2. Cal could make an issue of the degree, but it is their requirement, so no reason they could not waive it. Like they would put BA/BS on the job announcement (I assume they have to post the position like any other) and then say that he received an equivalent qualification in some way. I had a professor in grad school (not at Cal) who had not gone to grad school himself. But he was world famous and had the knowledge so the education requirement was waived for him.
Sluggo
So you also are not voting for Hickenlooper, Beto, surely Drumpf, etc. etc.sluggo said:1. He got a DWI at the age of 39 after running his car into a telephone poll. But he was still learning, and I bet he is a super guy right now. And I guess he could not help punching his wife in the face at age 28. Celebrity will do that to you.OaktownBear said:
Kidd seems to be engendering extreme positive or extreme negative reactions. Honestly, I don't have strong feelings either way. However, a few points:
1. Regarding off the court issues. I definitely would not want to hire the Jason Kidd that left Cal or the one that was around up to 5 years thereafter. It would definitely be important to me that his record since then be reviewed. Honestly, I haven't kept up with him over the years to know how he has matured. I would forgive stupid behavior in a 25 year old who has been subject to adoration since he was 13, but absolutely, I'd want evidence that the 25 year old grew into a man.
2. Not having a degree. Don't care one bit. It would not make him any more qualified for the job.
2. Cal could make an issue of the degree, but it is their requirement, so no reason they could not waive it. Like they would put BA/BS on the job announcement (I assume they have to post the position like any other) and then say that he received an equivalent qualification in some way. I had a professor in grad school (not at Cal) who had not gone to grad school himself. But he was world famous and had the knowledge so the education requirement was waived for him.
Sluggo
Should people drink and drive? Clearly not. Bad thing. Don't do it. But if DUIs disqualify people from future pursuits after they do the time/pay the penalty we are in deep deep ca ca.
I think we can all agree that Kidd would be the right guy to turn the team around 360 degrees.
No, I am voting for Beto. Kidd has many other things on his record. Including the wife face punch. My point is that he has not been on the straight and narrow.socaltownie said:So you also are not voting for Hickenlooper, Beto, surely Drumpf, etc. etc.sluggo said:1. He got a DWI at the age of 39 after running his car into a telephone poll. But he was still learning, and I bet he is a super guy right now. And I guess he could not help punching his wife in the face at age 28. Celebrity will do that to you.OaktownBear said:
Kidd seems to be engendering extreme positive or extreme negative reactions. Honestly, I don't have strong feelings either way. However, a few points:
1. Regarding off the court issues. I definitely would not want to hire the Jason Kidd that left Cal or the one that was around up to 5 years thereafter. It would definitely be important to me that his record since then be reviewed. Honestly, I haven't kept up with him over the years to know how he has matured. I would forgive stupid behavior in a 25 year old who has been subject to adoration since he was 13, but absolutely, I'd want evidence that the 25 year old grew into a man.
2. Not having a degree. Don't care one bit. It would not make him any more qualified for the job.
2. Cal could make an issue of the degree, but it is their requirement, so no reason they could not waive it. Like they would put BA/BS on the job announcement (I assume they have to post the position like any other) and then say that he received an equivalent qualification in some way. I had a professor in grad school (not at Cal) who had not gone to grad school himself. But he was world famous and had the knowledge so the education requirement was waived for him.
Sluggo
Should people drink and drive? Clearly not. Bad thing. Don't do it. But if DUIs disqualify people from future pursuits after they do the time/pay the penalty we are in deep deep ca ca.
Sluggo
My guess is that Kidd would get NBA offers after one season at Cal only if he takes us to the NCAA tournament, and I'd actually be okay with him leaving then. I think the Mariucci situation, while not ideal, was compounded by Kasser making an awful decision in hiring Holmoe to replace him. If Knowlton were to hire Kidd, he should always keep a list of possible replacements on hand (well, I'd argue an AD should always keep a list of possible replacements for the head football and men's basketball coaches on hand at all times).UrsaMajor said:Not if he does so after 1 year.BeachedBear said:
We should HOPE someone uses Cal as a stepping stone to the NBA!!!
Remember Steve Mariucci?
Certainly, that is a subject that needs to be explored in depth. However, it's hard for us to know based on resume. I mean, the guy you don't want him to be, Cuonzo, was experienced and had a good record.KoreAmBear said:Re #9 I just don't know if Jason has the coaching knowledge (not just experience, knowledge and that's different than player knowledge which obviously he was one of the best ever) to get the players knowing what to do. I just think successful former players generally seem to rely more on motivation, inspiration and player credibility than substantive coaching. But largely I don't know about Jason's coaching chops, so the interviewers must really dig deep on his coaching knowledge, philosophy and plan. It speaks well of him that he took a losing team and got them to the playoffs. It does not speak well of him that the Bucks took off after he left. Jason's an intriguing possibility, but I'd want to really go deep on the due diligence with him.OaktownBear said:Kidd seems to be engendering extreme positive or extreme negative reactions. Honestly, I don't have strong feelings either way. However, a few points:KoreAmBear said:
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
1. Regarding off the court issues. I definitely would not want to hire the Jason Kidd that left Cal or the one that was around up to 5 years thereafter. It would definitely be important to me that his record since then be reviewed. Honestly, I haven't kept up with him over the years to know how he has matured. I would forgive stupid behavior in a 25 year old who has been subject to adoration since he was 13, but absolutely, I'd want evidence that the 25 year old grew into a man.
2. Not having a degree. Don't care one bit. It would not make him any more qualified for the job.
3. He has 2 significant positives in his favor. The Alums would love him and he would either boost ticket sales or at least stop the bleeding.
4. He has 1 more potentially significant positive. Recruiting. His name is big enough that kids know who he is even if they were young when he played. His profile gives him the potential to recruit to a higher level than other candidates. But it is only potential. If he thinks he can walk in and say "I'm Jason Kidd" and get commits, he will be wrong. He'll have to be willing to work for it and he'll have to be good at it. Something that is unknown.
5. He isn't Joe Kapp. Kapp didn't have a day of coaching experience. Honestly, Kapp might have been successful if he had kept his assistant coaches and let them do the coaching while keeping himself to shaking hands with alums and walking around practices clapping and shouting "the bear will not quit". This formula wouldn't work in basketball in any case where you do not have the equivalent of OC's and DC's
6. We should not hire Jason Kidd the player or Jason Kidd the former Cal star. We need to hire Jason Kidd the coach. It would be admittedly fun to have him back, but the fun would die pretty quickly if we don't win. Wins are fun. Losses are not. Give me the candidate that maximizes wins.
7. I see no reason to believe that he will stay at Cal because he is an alum. I see know reason to believe he will use us as a stepping stone more than anyone else. Hire the best guy and let that issue play out as it does. You can't control it anyway.
8. I don't have a great read on his NBA coaching. He took two teams from terrible to mediocrity. Didn't manage to take the second team beyond that. I haven't seen him coach a game. I defer to those who know better.
9. KAB - you keep saying you don't want another Cuonzo. I don't either, but I don't know what leads you to believe that the risk is higher that this is the case with Kidd than with any other candidate. I'm curious to know what makes you think that.
10. Following on to that, though, I keep seeing that we don't want a Kapp or a Bozeman, or a Cuonzo or a fill in the blank. We can't just look at all of the failed coaches Cal has had (and oh there have been many) and say candidates kinda sorta look like them if you squint and disqualify them. We need to find what is good fo us now.
11. Cal has got to think about what works for Cal. The biggest red flag on Jones was the type of schemes he wanted to run. He was never going to be able to recruit the players to run those schemes at Cal. Personally, I think Cal has to go to more of a mid major strategy unless and until they think they have a coach that can recruit to something better. Running a system that requires us to recruit like Kentucky won't work.
Problem is that every candidate will have flaws or we can't afford them. I really like Decuire as a candidate, but you have to admit that our recruiting sucked when he was here and winning at Montana isn't really evidence that you can recruit for the Pac-12. I'll be honest, I'd prefer to watch a well coached team with mediocre athletes than a poorly coached team that wastes talent, but between those two options, I'm kind of hoping for none of the above.
Mooch was a unique situation where one guy in the universe loved him and would have hired him even if he was still QB coach at Green Bay and didn't care what he did at Cal and that guy happened to hold the keys to the top job in the entire profession. You can't make your hires based on concern that a prospect will quit if they win the lottery.85Bear said:My guess is that Kidd would get NBA offers after one season at Cal only if he takes us to the NCAA tournament, and I'd actually be okay with him leaving then. I think the Mariucci situation, while not ideal, was compounded by Kasser making an awful decision in hiring Holmoe to replace him. If Knowlton were to hire Kidd, he should always keep a list of possible replacements on hand (well, I'd argue an AD should always keep a list of possible replacements for the head football and men's basketball coaches on hand at all times).UrsaMajor said:Not if he does so after 1 year.BeachedBear said:
We should HOPE someone uses Cal as a stepping stone to the NBA!!!
Remember Steve Mariucci?
The should have a serious conversation about whether what he really wants to do with his life is be an NBA coach. Kidd isn't likely doing the job for the money. Working with young kids to make them better and send them off in life is a much different job than working with established leaders in their profession who just want a little ego stroking. For me, if money was no object, I'd prefer the former. No idea what any of the candidates for this job prefer.
Now with Cuonzo, although he had a decent resume, Tennessee fans gave us the red flags. Now of course we downplayed it as if they were racist rednecks, but turned out there were valid concerns. I wish they would have spelled it out though that he doesn't know anything about a half court offense. That would have helped lol. I will say Cuonzo did teach defense effectively. But he didn't know offense, and he didn't know how to manage a game down the stretch.OaktownBear said:Certainly, that is a subject that needs to be explored in depth. However, it's hard for us to know based on resume. I mean, the guy you don't want him to be, Cuonzo, was experienced and had a good record.KoreAmBear said:Re #9 I just don't know if Jason has the coaching knowledge (not just experience, knowledge and that's different than player knowledge which obviously he was one of the best ever) to get the players knowing what to do. I just think successful former players generally seem to rely more on motivation, inspiration and player credibility than substantive coaching. But largely I don't know about Jason's coaching chops, so the interviewers must really dig deep on his coaching knowledge, philosophy and plan. It speaks well of him that he took a losing team and got them to the playoffs. It does not speak well of him that the Bucks took off after he left. Jason's an intriguing possibility, but I'd want to really go deep on the due diligence with him.OaktownBear said:Kidd seems to be engendering extreme positive or extreme negative reactions. Honestly, I don't have strong feelings either way. However, a few points:KoreAmBear said:
Does anyone know if he really learned how to coach Xs and Os in the NBA?
I just heard a really nice interview of Kelvin Sampson by Jim Rome. Kelvin said in the past, including his Oklahoma days (and he was also a great coach at Wazzu), he said he would win just by playing hard D and getting your star to score your buckets. Doesn't that sound exactly like Cuonzo?
He didn't have to teach spacing, screening and rolling and rotations too much. He said when he was in between coaching gigs and became an NBA scout, he learned so much in having to prep for an opponent, learning their tendencies and getting way more technical. But he said what he learned has really helped his coaching now at Houston.
So will Jason be another Cuonzo or Kelvin Sampson in his former life, or does he really know how to teach basketball? People say he is a perfectionist, but I would say Cuonzo was too but he still didn't know how to teach offense. I mean Jaylen Brown (like Bearister says all the time) looked completely lost the last part of his only year at Cal. He was getting worse not better.
Our kids are talented, but they have been given zero structure. Can Jason give them that structure, or will it be more of the charismatic NBA hall of famer trying to will the kids to win by inspiration? If that's the case, I don't think it will be a good product. But I'd like to hear what Jason has to say and what coaching chops he has now.
1. Regarding off the court issues. I definitely would not want to hire the Jason Kidd that left Cal or the one that was around up to 5 years thereafter. It would definitely be important to me that his record since then be reviewed. Honestly, I haven't kept up with him over the years to know how he has matured. I would forgive stupid behavior in a 25 year old who has been subject to adoration since he was 13, but absolutely, I'd want evidence that the 25 year old grew into a man.
2. Not having a degree. Don't care one bit. It would not make him any more qualified for the job.
3. He has 2 significant positives in his favor. The Alums would love him and he would either boost ticket sales or at least stop the bleeding.
4. He has 1 more potentially significant positive. Recruiting. His name is big enough that kids know who he is even if they were young when he played. His profile gives him the potential to recruit to a higher level than other candidates. But it is only potential. If he thinks he can walk in and say "I'm Jason Kidd" and get commits, he will be wrong. He'll have to be willing to work for it and he'll have to be good at it. Something that is unknown.
5. He isn't Joe Kapp. Kapp didn't have a day of coaching experience. Honestly, Kapp might have been successful if he had kept his assistant coaches and let them do the coaching while keeping himself to shaking hands with alums and walking around practices clapping and shouting "the bear will not quit". This formula wouldn't work in basketball in any case where you do not have the equivalent of OC's and DC's
6. We should not hire Jason Kidd the player or Jason Kidd the former Cal star. We need to hire Jason Kidd the coach. It would be admittedly fun to have him back, but the fun would die pretty quickly if we don't win. Wins are fun. Losses are not. Give me the candidate that maximizes wins.
7. I see no reason to believe that he will stay at Cal because he is an alum. I see know reason to believe he will use us as a stepping stone more than anyone else. Hire the best guy and let that issue play out as it does. You can't control it anyway.
8. I don't have a great read on his NBA coaching. He took two teams from terrible to mediocrity. Didn't manage to take the second team beyond that. I haven't seen him coach a game. I defer to those who know better.
9. KAB - you keep saying you don't want another Cuonzo. I don't either, but I don't know what leads you to believe that the risk is higher that this is the case with Kidd than with any other candidate. I'm curious to know what makes you think that.
10. Following on to that, though, I keep seeing that we don't want a Kapp or a Bozeman, or a Cuonzo or a fill in the blank. We can't just look at all of the failed coaches Cal has had (and oh there have been many) and say candidates kinda sorta look like them if you squint and disqualify them. We need to find what is good fo us now.
11. Cal has got to think about what works for Cal. The biggest red flag on Jones was the type of schemes he wanted to run. He was never going to be able to recruit the players to run those schemes at Cal. Personally, I think Cal has to go to more of a mid major strategy unless and until they think they have a coach that can recruit to something better. Running a system that requires us to recruit like Kentucky won't work.
Problem is that every candidate will have flaws or we can't afford them. I really like Decuire as a candidate, but you have to admit that our recruiting sucked when he was here and winning at Montana isn't really evidence that you can recruit for the Pac-12. I'll be honest, I'd prefer to watch a well coached team with mediocre athletes than a poorly coached team that wastes talent, but between those two options, I'm kind of hoping for none of the above.
I watch often Rachel Nichols' "The Jump" NBA show on ESPN.
It's filmed in LA.
Guess who showed up today for the first time as a desk guest.
Rachel mentioned "no wonder Jason wants to get back into coaching...
They are talking to him about Harden vs Giannis matchup tonight. Jason used to coach giannis in MIL.
I wonder if Rachel will ask JK about his next job. She is usually not shy about pressing her guests in a light hearted way.
It runs from 12-1, I'm on delay with Roku, so don't go searching live.
Now projecting seeds in west and playoff forecast.
Guys, he ain't coming to Cal. He's all about the NBA.
It's filmed in LA.
Guess who showed up today for the first time as a desk guest.
Rachel mentioned "no wonder Jason wants to get back into coaching...
They are talking to him about Harden vs Giannis matchup tonight. Jason used to coach giannis in MIL.
I wonder if Rachel will ask JK about his next job. She is usually not shy about pressing her guests in a light hearted way.
It runs from 12-1, I'm on delay with Roku, so don't go searching live.
Now projecting seeds in west and playoff forecast.
Guys, he ain't coming to Cal. He's all about the NBA.
Ha, the lead in advert for the next show, "The Lead" out of Brooklyn says, "we will talk about Jason Kidd angling for the Lakers job."
Pffft. He's doing the media tour. Let his people know to work the story.
Lame.
UPDATE:
Bomani says there is no way Kidd is getting the Lakers job. Thinks Kidd is just playing it so he can get more money elsewhere. Thinks Kidd just wants to get ANY coaching job. Said that there is a job open that Kidd could get: Cal.
Pffft. He's doing the media tour. Let his people know to work the story.
Lame.
UPDATE:
Bomani says there is no way Kidd is getting the Lakers job. Thinks Kidd is just playing it so he can get more money elsewhere. Thinks Kidd just wants to get ANY coaching job. Said that there is a job open that Kidd could get: Cal.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Joe is a great guy who was a fabulous QB. Football is far more complicated than basketball (one can measure by the number of assistant coaches). He was doomed to failure by not having been an assistant. Nevertheless, he turned a team with one of the worst records in Cal history to one with a winning record. As you said, Kidd has coaching experience, not to mention at a higher level than college.Jackieridgle said:59bear said:
He strikes me as an unlikely program savior....kind of a lesser committed Joe Kapp. He might be a plus recruiter and I don't question his leadership attributes but I suspect we be just a way station on his way back to the NBA There's also the suspicion that superstars often are busts as coaches. I'm OK with a guy using Cal as a stepping stone if, in the process, the program gets stabilized and back on track but I wonder if Kidd can do that.
Kidd had some success at the NBA level. Joe Kapp was not a coach and, truthfully, is a total imbecile.
Kidd would be able to recruit. He could make recruiting connections instantaneously. A well sourced rumor says he would love to coach Cal, but without a degree it may never come to fruition.
I understand why someone might compare a Kidd hire to Kapp, but Kidd is immensely more qualified and not a buffoon like Joe Kapp!
KoreAmBear said:BeggarEd said:Hot garbage take.ClayK said:
Kidd: DUI, domestic abuse, checkered NBA coaching career with limited success. No college experience. Limited connections, we assume, with the club scene and potential recruits.
Oh, no college degree.
He played at Cal, though ...
Kidd would be THE game-changing hire. Would come with notable (basketball-relevant) alumni backing and from what i gather, an injection of funding/support that would make a dedicated practice facility a reality.
AAU coaches would be way more receptive to Kidd than any coach we've likely ever had. Limited connections my a$$.
Also managing and coaching NBA millionaires in my estimation is a lot harder than coaching college kids. I think Kidd might do a lot better at the collegiate level than you give him credit for.
Going for the "safe" atypical Cal hire will ensure nothing more than the continuation of program apathy and a ceiling of NIT bids or the occasional 1st round flame-out for the program.
He would be the big splash hire but not sure if he's the game changing hire. If he really learned how to coach during his time with the Nets and Bucks so be it. But we saw that Cuonzo had more coaching experience and could recruit 5 stars, but we discovered that he couldn't really coach offense. I'm for considering Jason, but I don't want a Cuonzo 2.0.
Isn't the general consensus on Russell Turner that he is a Cuonzo/Braun defense oriented coach with a limited offense and poor game management skills? And IMO he likely will never be their level of recruiter.
Of the Monty Stanford assistants, the guy that the players liked, the guy who could recruit, was Trent Johnson. At Cal it was everyone but Monty, including Travis Decuire. Travis knows his offense, and is very flexible in his approach, which is critical in college. If Travis had strong California recruiters on his staff, he would be good and I'd be statisfied.
But I'd be excited for Cal basketball if we hired Kidd (I know you don't feel the same).
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