Just to get this issue where everyone can see it, in my opinion hiring Martin rather than Decuire was a mistake. I thought that not long after Martin's first few games, where it was obvious he was going in an entirely different offensive direction from what Montgomery had installed.

It was a mistake, IMHO, because Jakob Poetl plus Ahmad Rorie, plus an actual offensive system, probably achieves better results in the college game, than Jaylen Brown plus Ivan Rabb plus a lot of one-on-one hero ball. Obviously, this is influenced by the subsequent results. Had Wallace and Bird not gotten injured, leading to the debacle against Hawaii, and had we gone on to make a deep tourney run, I might feel differently.

But I just don't think Cuonzo Martin could have consistently recruited the level of athletes at Cal he needed to run the offense he's tied to. I don't think he can do it at Missouri either, which is why they're going nowhere, and he will probably end up getting a lovely early retirement from the coaching professsion.

Jeff82 said:

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Just to get this issue where everyone can see it, in my opinion hiring Martin rather than Decuire was a mistake. I thought that not long after Martin's first few games, where it was obvious he was going in an entirely different offensive direction from what Montgomery had installed.

It was a mistake, IMHO, because Jakob Poetl plus Ahmad Rorie, plus an actual offensive system, probably achieves better results in the college game, than Jaylen Brown plus Ivan Rabb plus a lot of one-on-one hero ball. Obviously, this is influenced by the subsequent results. Had Wallace and Bird not gotten injured, leading to the debacle against Hawaii, and had we gone on to make a deep tourney run, I might feel differently.

But I just don't think Cuonzo Martin could have consistently recruited the level of athletes at Cal he needed to run the offense he's tied to. I don't think he can do it at Missouri either, which is why they're going nowhere, and he will probably end up getting a lovely early retirement from the coaching professsion.

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Just shows we are cursed because had Bird and Ty played, I think we would have made at least the Sweet 16. What happened was really a Cal sports week of course capped by sexual harassment allegations against Yanni and Cuonzo somewhat in trouble too. We were so worried Cuonzo would leave then. UGH.

Jeff82 said:

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Just to get this issue where everyone can see it, in my opinion hiring Martin rather than Decuire was a mistake. I thought that not long after Martin's first few games, where it was obvious he was going in an entirely different offensive direction from what Montgomery had installed.

It was a mistake, IMHO, because Jakob Poetl plus Ahmad Rorie, plus an actual offensive system, probably achieves better results in the college game, than Jaylen Brown plus Ivan Rabb plus a lot of one-on-one hero ball. Obviously, this is influenced by the subsequent results. Had Wallace and Bird not gotten injured, leading to the debacle against Hawaii, and had we gone on to make a deep tourney run, I might feel differently.

But I just don't think Cuonzo Martin could have consistently recruited the level of athletes at Cal he needed to run the offense he's tied to. I don't think he can do it at Missouri either, which is why they're going nowhere, and he will probably end up getting a lovely early retirement from the coaching professsion.

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In hindsight, I agree with you. Knowing how things did turn out with Martin, and how it COULD have turned out with DeCuire, if you gave me a do-over, I would absolutely roll the dice with Travis. But at the time, before seeing the total package of Cuonzo's coaching ability, I think hiring Martin was the right call.

Jeff82 said:

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Just to get this issue where everyone can see it, in my opinion hiring Martin rather than Decuire was a mistake. I thought that not long after Martin's first few games, where it was obvious he was going in an entirely different offensive direction from what Montgomery had installed.

It was a mistake, IMHO, because Jakob Poetl plus Ahmad Rorie, plus an actual offensive system, probably achieves better results in the college game, than Jaylen Brown plus Ivan Rabb plus a lot of one-on-one hero ball. Obviously, this is influenced by the subsequent results. Had Wallace and Bird not gotten injured, leading to the debacle against Hawaii, and had we gone on to make a deep tourney run, I might feel differently.

But I just don't think Cuonzo Martin could have consistently recruited the level of athletes at Cal he needed to run the offense he's tied to. I don't think he can do it at Missouri either, which is why they're going nowhere, and he will probably end up getting a lovely early retirement from the coaching professsion.

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Hindsight is 20-20. In hindsight, I think it was a mistake. I certainly wondered a few games in when I saw his offense. When we had Rabb and Brown the next year, it seemed better. But at the time? I thought it was a no-brainer, Cuonzo was the better hire.

I didn't have all the information that Sandy surely had when she wanted to hire Travis (which was surely more info than Dirks/Wilton had, too), so I don't know how I would have felt if I had been in Sandy's shoes. But this ignorant fan thought that hiring Cuonzo was at least a triple, and hiring Travis was more like a single.

As I have posted elsewhere, however, with hindsight I am confident that if we had hired Travis in 2014, we couldn't possibly be worse off today than we are, and we possibly would be a lot better off.

At the time, Cuonzo's successful HC experience totally trumped DeCuire's lack thereof.

I'll bet there were even posts here like, "If only Travis DeCuire had had some successful experience as a Head Coach at a mid-major... "

Well, now he has.

Big C said:

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At the time, Cuonzo's successful HC experience totally trumped DeCuire's lack thereof.

I'll bet there were even posts here like, "If only Travis DeCuire had had some successful experience as a Head Coach at a mid-major... "

Well, now he has.

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Exactly.

Former pro players often get to skip the "prove yourself as an NBA assistant before you can be a college/NBA coach" stage. Non rainmaker assistants need to go prove themselves at a lower level first. Now he has and now he's a reasonable candidate for the job.

No P5 school should ever hire someone with DeCuire's resume at that time as their head coach. We just found out why with Wyking Jones (and don't give me any "lead assistant" or Monty's endorsement pablum). If in retrospect it would have been better, what that really means is that we should have hired a different experienced coach than Cuonzo rather than an inexperienced assistant. That's for lower level lower paying colleges to take those chances. We're in the busiiness of making money off of the backs of unpaid college labor and we can't afford to take those risks, no matter how many people want to pat themselves on the back for wanting DeCuire back then.

Yogi Bear said:

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Big C said:

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At the time, Cuonzo's successful HC experience totally trumped DeCuire's lack thereof.

I'll bet there were even posts here like, "If only Travis DeCuire had had some successful experience as a Head Coach at a mid-major... "

Well, now he has.

---

Exactly.

Former pro players often get to skip the "prove yourself as an NBA assistant before you can be a college/NBA coach" stage. Non rainmaker assistants need to go prove themselves at a lower level first. Now he has and now he's a reasonable candidate for the job.

No P5 school should ever hire someone with DeCuire's resume at that time as their head coach. We just found out why with Wyking Jones (and don't give me any "lead assistant" or Monty's endorsement pablum). If in retrospect it would have been better, what that really means is that we should have hired a different experienced coach than Cuonzo rather than an inexperienced assistant. That's for lower level lower paying colleges to take those chances. We're in the busiiness of making money off of the backs of unpaid college labor and we can't afford to take those risks, no matter how many people want to pat themselves on the back for wanting DeCuire back then.

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This is largely what I was going to write - except for the last sentence about making money of the unpaid labor. The fact that I agree with yogi is causing me deep distress - but he's absolutely right. Decuire was unproven and, at that time, Cuonzo was a much stronger candidate who had a track record of success and seeming upside.

Those who correctly point out that Cuonzo checked out at the end need to remember that Cal failed Cuonzo on numerous fronts. As a I recall, he worked without a contract for a ridiculous period of time (I think over a year). He was wrongly dragged into the Hufnagel mess and left hanging while Cal took a really long time to clear him, had problems getting kids through admissions (probably partly his fault, but for sure a lack of clarity/flexibility from Cal), and of course the practice facility. Cuonzo was not a perfect coach - offensive x's and o's and in game coaching were a real problem. But Cal was not blameless and on many fronts did not help him succeed.

LOUMFSG2 said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Just to get this issue where everyone can see it, in my opinion hiring Martin rather than Decuire was a mistake. I thought that not long after Martin's first few games, where it was obvious he was going in an entirely different offensive direction from what Montgomery had installed.

It was a mistake, IMHO, because Jakob Poetl plus Ahmad Rorie, plus an actual offensive system, probably achieves better results in the college game, than Jaylen Brown plus Ivan Rabb plus a lot of one-on-one hero ball. Obviously, this is influenced by the subsequent results. Had Wallace and Bird not gotten injured, leading to the debacle against Hawaii, and had we gone on to make a deep tourney run, I might feel differently.

But I just don't think Cuonzo Martin could have consistently recruited the level of athletes at Cal he needed to run the offense he's tied to. I don't think he can do it at Missouri either, which is why they're going nowhere, and he will probably end up getting a lovely early retirement from the coaching professsion.

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In hindsight, I agree with you. Knowing how things did turn out with Martin, and how it COULD have turned out with DeCuire, if you gave me a do-over, I would absolutely roll the dice with Travis. But at the time, before seeing the total package of Cuonzo's coaching ability, I think hiring Martin was the right call.

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I also think many fans gave so much credit to Montgomery that they did not realize how much credit the "Associate Head Coach" deserved. Travis was doing the recruiting that Monty hated. Because Monty's efforts seemed to be having a negative effect, Travis took over coaching Solomon, even during games, and then often coached the team from the bench while Monty watched silently (trying to avoid a T).

I do think that if Monty knew he wanted to retire, he could have done more to set up Travis to take over. He could have made Travis "co-head coach" and let everyone know Travis was running things while he was "dealing with medical issues." Monty had the clout to dictate how he wanted it to go. He could have renegotiated his and Travis's contracts with Cal, so he would be a lower paid "advisor" while Travis was the HC, giving Cal an appealing cost savings. The whole thing could have been orchestrated. The problem was Monty quit, THEN started lobbying for Travis. Then Cuonzo became available coming off a Sweet 16...

calumnus said:

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I do think that if Monty knew he wanted to retire, he could have done more to set up Travis to take over. He could have made Travis "co-head coach" and let everyone know Travis was running things while he was "dealing with medical issues." Monty had the clout to dictate how he wanted it to go. He could have renegotiated his and Travis's contracts with Cal, so he would be a lower paid "advisor" while Travis was the HC, giving Cal an appealing cost savings. The whole thing could have been orchestrated. The problem was Monty quit, THEN started lobbying for Travis. Then Cuonzo became available coming off a Sweet 16...

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Truth. Precisely what Steve F. did at San Diego State. But I will trust Monty when he says that it was a late decision - that he just couldn't deal with another year of the grind.

I understand the comfort of choosing a candidate with previous head coaching experience, but elevating assistants has happened quite a few times and has churned out successful coaches. Pitt elevated Jamie Dixon after Howland left for UCLA. Marquette made Buzz Williams the HC (he had 1 season at New Orleans) after Crean left for Indiana. After Bo Ryan retired, Wisconsin elevated Greg Gard. And don't forget Wazzu elevating Tony Bennett when dad Dick decided to retire.

Wyking is a very bad example and was a shocking hire because he was probably the lowest assistant on the staff. Tracy Webster was the Associate HC and Tim O'Toole had head coaching experience at Fairfield.

Yogi Bear said:

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Big C said:

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At the time, Cuonzo's successful HC experience totally trumped DeCuire's lack thereof.

I'll bet there were even posts here like, "If only Travis DeCuire had had some successful experience as a Head Coach at a mid-major... "

Well, now he has.

---

Exactly.

Former pro players often get to skip the "prove yourself as an NBA assistant before you can be a college/NBA coach" stage. Non rainmaker assistants need to go prove themselves at a lower level first. Now he has and now he's a reasonable candidate for the job.

No P5 school should ever hire someone with DeCuire's resume at that time as their head coach. We just found out why with Wyking Jones (and don't give me any "lead assistant" or Monty's endorsement pablum). If in retrospect it would have been better, what that really means is that we should have hired a different experienced coach than Cuonzo rather than an inexperienced assistant. That's for lower level lower paying colleges to take those chances. We're in the busiiness of making money off of the backs of unpaid college labor and we can't afford to take those risks, no matter how many people want to pat themselves on the back for wanting DeCuire back then.

---

tsubamoto2001 said:

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Wyking is a very bad example and was a shocking hire because he was probably the lowest assistant on the staff. Tracy Webster was the Associate HC and Tim O'Toole had head coaching experience at Fairfield.

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Williams was so f'ing over his head. Just shocking that he was able to find Wilcox who feels like a good fit for the program (though highly interested to see if Baldwin can finally start to produce)

calumnus said:

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LOUMFSG2 said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Just to get this issue where everyone can see it, in my opinion hiring Martin rather than Decuire was a mistake. I thought that not long after Martin's first few games, where it was obvious he was going in an entirely different offensive direction from what Montgomery had installed.

It was a mistake, IMHO, because Jakob Poetl plus Ahmad Rorie, plus an actual offensive system, probably achieves better results in the college game, than Jaylen Brown plus Ivan Rabb plus a lot of one-on-one hero ball. Obviously, this is influenced by the subsequent results. Had Wallace and Bird not gotten injured, leading to the debacle against Hawaii, and had we gone on to make a deep tourney run, I might feel differently.

But I just don't think Cuonzo Martin could have consistently recruited the level of athletes at Cal he needed to run the offense he's tied to. I don't think he can do it at Missouri either, which is why they're going nowhere, and he will probably end up getting a lovely early retirement from the coaching professsion.

---

In hindsight, I agree with you. Knowing how things did turn out with Martin, and how it COULD have turned out with DeCuire, if you gave me a do-over, I would absolutely roll the dice with Travis. But at the time, before seeing the total package of Cuonzo's coaching ability, I think hiring Martin was the right call.

---

I also think many fans gave so much credit to Montgomery that they did not realize how much credit the "Associate Head Coach" deserved. Travis was doing the recruiting that Monty hated. Because Monty's efforts seemed to be having a negative effect, Travis took over coaching Solomon, even during games, and then often coached the team from the bench while Monty watched silently (trying to avoid a T).

I do think that if Monty knew he wanted to retire, he could have done more to set up Travis to take over. He could have made Travis "co-head coach" and let everyone know Travis was running things while he was "dealing with medical issues." Monty had the clout to dictate how he wanted it to go. He could have renegotiated his and Travis's contracts with Cal, so he would be a lower paid "advisor" while Travis was the HC, giving Cal an appealing cost savings. The whole thing could have been orchestrated. The problem was Monty quit, THEN started lobbying for Travis. Then Cuonzo became available coming off a Sweet 16...

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.......and an online petition to replace Cuonzo as head coach, signed by 40,000 Tennessee fans. That should have been a red flag, to take a hard look at Cuonzo and why the lack of fan support, and not just hire a guy based on Sweet 16 appearances. Wyking Jones just got fired, and if a petition had been started to fire him, how many would have signed? Maybe 40 on the Bear Insider and few thousand unhappy season ticket holders. 40,000 Tennessee fans is not a small number.