Cal8285 said:
Civil Bear said:
SFCityBear said:
It did not matter to you and other fans that we had a green AD, who might make the wrong decision. You apparently also did not consider how much the players liked Jones, so much so that they might leave en mass if Jones was canned. You may have considered other things, but I can only go by the words you write, and all I heard out of you and many other fans was, "Off with his head" or something to that effect.
You are a flat out liar.
If someone is so disconnected from reality that he doesn't know that what he is saying is false, is he a liar? Or is he delusional, simply mistaken, or something else?
On 1/27/2019, SFCityBear made a post that said, in part, the following of Jones (a cut and paste, so any typos or grammatical errors are in the original): "I don't see why you thing it will be so easy to transition back into being an assistant, after such a horrible two seasons at Cal. What would hire him for, exactly? There is no evidence he can help with game strategy, or with game tactics. There is not a lot of evidence over the last two years that he can make players individually better, or better team players. He might be able to coach bigs, but I didn't see much improvement in KO last season, maybe regression. Did Rooks leave because he felt he'd get better personal coaching at SDS? So that leaves recruiting. Jones is perhaps adequate in that regard."
Yet after that analysis, SFCB had serious reservations about terminating Jones? How can a person have ANY reservations about terminating Jones after that description of Jones' time as Cal HC?
With that type of disconnect from reality, it is not necessarily surprising that all he heard was "Off with his head," as opposed to hearing many of us saying exactly what SFCB said about Jones in that 1/27/2019 post. The qualities of Jones (or lack thereof) that SFCB captured perfectly were sufficient reason to terminate, no matter how much any players "liked" him or whether we had a green AD who might not make a good hire to replace Jones, and there were plenty more substantive reasons given by "you and many other fans" beyond "Off with his head" or something to that effect. Lying? I don't know. But disconnected from reality for sure.
With all due respect, my friend, you like Civil and a couple of others tend to read into my posts even more than is there. My reality is my posts, my specific words, right or wrong. Your reality seems to be what you think my posts are saying. I think the post of mine that you copied (geez, I sure failed to proofead that one for grammar and typos. Sorry) was not the whole story. I think I was responding to others accusing me of being a Jones apologist or something similar. I could always see some positive and negative in his handling of his job, but never enough to judge him either way. I guess because I was unwilling to go along with the mob wanting him fired (some of them even before his first game, just like we seem to be starting now with Fox), and so I am called disconnected with reality. That is rich.
To be more specific, You say I had no "serious reservations about terminating Jones". If you can find where I said that, then more power to you. I merely stated what I saw on the court, and much of it was negative. There is a difference between describing actions, and stating opinions about what they mean.
What I had reservations about was the thought process of some fans who were willing to urge that Jones be fired on the basis of won loss record alone. I did write about what I saw on the court, but I also said I would have to see some practices to see whether the product on the floor was more due to poor coaching in practice by Jones, or good coaching by Jones, but players unwilling to absorb his teaching and do things his way. It would have an effect on whether I'd want Jones fired or not, and until I saw that, I wasn't willing to come out strong for Jones or firing Jones.
When the drum beat to fire Jones grew and grew, led by (in my opinion, the constant childish repetitive posts of calbear80, I lost confidence in my fellow Bear fans in their ability to judge Jones fairly, and instead to judge him on the basis of one thing only - he lost too many games. They were exhibiting a prejudice, by not considering all the issues, all the factors. I wrote several posts pointing out some small things Jones had done well. For that, I was branded a "Jones apologist". No, on the contrary, I am a true Cal fan, just in the sense that I am always looking for the good things that do happen in Cal sports once in a while, and I celebrate them, as should everyone here. One of the things I wrote about was Vanover's improvement to the point of becoming a force to be reckoned with by the end of the season. One Cal fan replied that Vanover improved so much was by working on his own, but mostly because he got more used to playing minutes in the games. Now there is a fan who has a prejudice against Jones ever doing anything right. I got the feeling reading the BI day by day that many fans wanted Cal to keep on losing, so they could see Jones fired for it.
What I was trying to do was to get fans to consider all factors in making a decision. If you only consider one or just a few factors, you let your prejudices govern your thinking and you make a prejudiced decision, not a fair and balanced one. I used the same logic in writing about the decision to hire Mark Fox. Have you noticed that most of the fans who strongly wanted Jones fired because he lost too many games are the same fans who now feel the hiring of Mark Fox was a horrible decision because he did not win enough of his conference games at one of the schools where he was head coach? Fox is a winning coach overall at both Georgia and Nevada, but fans here choose to consider only his conference record, and nothing else. He has an overall winning record at Georgia. He had a winning record at Nevada, with 4 conference championships in 5 years, and had several 20 win seasons at both schools. He has had outstanding rebounding teams, and excellent defensive teams on average. But all of this is overlooked when generating a prejudice because Fox did not win enough conference games for one school, Georgia. The right way to make a decision is to look at all aspects, all the record, and all the future scenarios after the decision is made. You can assign more importance or less to each aspect or scenario, but you need to look at all of them, and not overlook any.
Look at just what happened: We just did what all of you wanted, fired the coach, everyone breathed a sigh of relief, and felt a feeling of satisfaction. We all thought were going to see a good decision, a good coach hired. When Cal hires one who does not live up to one of our criteria, a coach who has not done really well in his last conference job, we begin to trash him and the decision. I think I even wrote that we could not be sure the AD would make a good hire. When I point out a few good things about Fox, I expect I will get trashed again, by the same prejudiced fans who used one criteria, wins and losses to form their opinion about the last coach we fired. Some fans did look at all sides when they decided they wanted Jones fired, and I commend them. They are the ones who will want to wait and see what Fox's Cal teams will do. They are few in number here on the Bear Insider.
I repeat that I never had any reservations about firing Jones or not firing him. I had only questions and concerns either way. I feel the same way about the Fox decision. Some have said that Fox's mediocre or average record in conference at Georgia would have been a non-starter for them, and they would not have hired him, just due to that. Do you know what would be a non-starter for me? I would not have hired Todd Bozeman, because I was sickened by the way he and Kidd may have gotten Campanelli fired. I was already suspicious of how he could have landed Kidd and other big stars as a Cal assistant without a little something under the table. I told many Cal friends at the time. A couple of years later, he was nailed for illegal payments to players. So any coach who did that, or looked like it, I would not hire. I don't want Cal on probation again. I wouldn't hire Calipari for similar reasons. Two NCAA titles vacated, I think. Dan Altman would be a non-starter for me. Too many off court incidents by his players, and not much penalty.
I have reservations about the Wyking firing now, because it looks like the AD was overly influenced by some parents of players and the firing happened so fast. I have reservations about the Fox hiring because it too happened so fast. I would have been more comfortable with a longer process begun months ago to vett candidates. I question whether the AD did hid due diligence in both decisions and considered all factors. I think the Chancellor should look into the whole process. I don't know if the Bear Insider fans are any indication of the general feeling about Cal basketball, but it seems like we should be feeling positive about next season, and very few are.
As for CivilBear, he hasn't liked me from day one. My thoughts always seem to offend him in some way. There was no intention to aggravate him on my part. And if he is not winning a debate, it is not long before he launches into personal ad hominem attacks. Not very civil to me at all.
SFCityBear
