Not sure why Sueing is transferring, but here are three "typical" reasons that do NOT apply in this case:
- not enough playing time
- academics (leaving before he flunked out)
- homesick for his fly-over state

So, what's left?

Not happy with the Fox hire (wanted DeCuire)?
Not happy with the Fox hire (preferred WJ)?

Wants to play for a program that's a proven winner?

Wanted to go to Haas Business school but didn't get in?

Doesn't get along too well with some of the remaining players?

Doesn't care for the overall Cal culture or city of Berkeley?

In relationship with the woman who is transferring from the women's team?

After Yale whupped us, he got a "Roy-Williams-to-Jared-Haase-extended-handshake" from the Yale coach?

Other?

Where he decides to go will tell us a lot.

Big C said:

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Not sure why Sueing is transferring, but here are three "typical" reasons that do not apply in this case:
- not enough playing time
- academics (leaving before he got kicked out)
- homesick for his fly-over state

So, what's left?

Not happy with the Fox hire (wanted DeCuire)?
Not happy with the Fox hire (preferred WJ)?

Wants to play for a program that's a proven winner?

Wanted to go to Haas Business school but didn't get in?

Doesn't get along too well with some of the remaining players?

Doesn't care for the overall Cal culture or city of Berkeley?

In relationship with the woman who is transferring from the women's team?

After Yale whupped us, he got a "Roy-Williams-to-Jared-Haase-extended-handshake" from the Yale coach?

Other?

Where he decides to go will tell us a lot.

---

We'll learn a lot based on where he lands: Does he want to play for a winning team where he's not the first option? Does he want to play for a fanbase that fills its arena and is loud?

TonyTiger said:

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He didn't read the room. These players liked Wyking. Wyking was this nice guy they liked and trusted despite having no coaching exp. Fox got here and they decided to hear what he had to say and he basically called Wyking a bad coach who didn't drive them but he was going to drive them like never before. He in essence spent the whole conversation talking against Wyking and them and they were not in the mood to hear that.

He committed three strikes in 15 minutes. I see why no recruits came from Georgia if thats how he talks to young man.
"Listen, your lazy and the reason your lazy is because your coach was lazy. You've never been driven the way im going to ride your azzzes, so get ready, daam it, get ready".

Worst speech I have ever heard.

---

I'm pretty sure he met with each of the players individually, before that speech.

When a new teacher takes over a class, a new CEO takes over a company, or a new coach takes over a team, "I want to be everybody's buddy" is a pretty good recipe for eventual failure.

Big C said:

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Not sure why Sueing is transferring, but here are three "typical" reasons that do not apply in this case:
- not enough playing time
- academics (leaving before he got kicked out)
- homesick for his fly-over state

So, what's left?

Not happy with the Fox hire (wanted DeCuire)?
Not happy with the Fox hire (preferred WJ)?

Wants to play for a program that's a proven winner?

Wanted to go to Haas Business school but didn't get in?

Doesn't get along too well with some of the remaining players?

Doesn't care for the overall Cal culture or city of Berkeley?

In relationship with the woman who is transferring from the women's team?

After Yale whupped us, he got a "Roy-Williams-to-Jared-Haase-extended-handshake" from the Yale coach?

Other?

Where he decides to go will tell us a lot.

---

The same reason as Travis Reid (trans. from Stanford to Kentucky). He wants to play for a program that can go deep into the tournament.

71Bear said:

---

Big C said:

---

Not sure why Sueing is transferring, but here are three "typical" reasons that do not apply in this case:
- not enough playing time
- academics (leaving before he got kicked out)
- homesick for his fly-over state

So, what's left?

Not happy with the Fox hire (wanted DeCuire)?
Not happy with the Fox hire (preferred WJ)?

Wants to play for a program that's a proven winner?

Wanted to go to Haas Business school but didn't get in?

Doesn't get along too well with some of the remaining players?

Doesn't care for the overall Cal culture or city of Berkeley?

In relationship with the woman who is transferring from the women's team?

After Yale whupped us, he got a "Roy-Williams-to-Jared-Haase-extended-handshake" from the Yale coach?

Other?

Where he decides to go will tell us a lot.

---

The same reason as Travis Reid (trans. from Stanford to Kentucky). He wants to play for a program that can go deep into the tournament.

---

Before he pleased me by abandoning 'Furd, I used to call him Travis Reid, too!

Big C said:

---

71Bear said:

---

Big C said:

---

Not sure why Sueing is transferring, but here are three "typical" reasons that do not apply in this case:
- not enough playing time
- academics (leaving before he got kicked out)
- homesick for his fly-over state

So, what's left?

Not happy with the Fox hire (wanted DeCuire)?
Not happy with the Fox hire (preferred WJ)?

Wants to play for a program that's a proven winner?

Wanted to go to Haas Business school but didn't get in?

Doesn't get along too well with some of the remaining players?

Doesn't care for the overall Cal culture or city of Berkeley?

In relationship with the woman who is transferring from the women's team?

After Yale whupped us, he got a "Roy-Williams-to-Jared-Haase-extended-handshake" from the Yale coach?

Other?

Where he decides to go will tell us a lot.

---

The same reason as Travis, Reid (trans. from Stanford to Kentucky). He wants to play for a program that can go deep into the tournament.

---

Before he pleased me by abandoning 'Furd, I used to call him Travis Reid, too!

---

Punctuation is your best friend!

TonyTiger said:

---

He didn't read the room. These players liked Wyking. Wyking was this nice guy they liked and trusted despite having no coaching exp. Fox got here and they decided to hear what he had to say and he basically called Wyking a bad coach who didn't drive them but he was going to drive them like never before. He in essence spent the whole conversation talking against Wyking and them and they were not in the mood to hear that.

He committed three strikes in 15 minutes. I see why no recruits came from Georgia if thats how he talks to young man.
"Listen, your lazy and the reason your lazy is because your coach was lazy. You've never been driven the way im going to ride your azzzes, so get ready, daam it, get ready".

Worst speech I have ever heard.

---

"Also, if you make the NBA, which you probably won't from tape I've seen, at most it will be 4 years. Then your azz gonna hit the pavement. Your handlers probably will eat most of that anyway. Have you seen Next Friday? Guy won the lotto and still was poor. Get ready for blue collar work unless you study. Let's win a title!!!"

One thought I had. Justice did transfer from Hawaii to Mater Dei for basketball, so he wouldn't be shy about doing this and esp. when Mater Dei hoopsters are notorious for moving around (Franklin Jr., Wear bros, Katin Reinhardt etc.).

TonyTiger said:

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He didn't read the room. These players liked Wyking. Wyking was this nice guy they liked and trusted despite having no coaching exp. Fox got here and they decided to hear what he had to say and he basically called Wyking a bad coach who didn't drive them but he was going to drive them like never before. He in essence spent the whole conversation talking against Wyking and them and they were not in the mood to hear that.

He committed three strikes in 15 minutes. I see why no recruits came from Georgia if thats how he talks to young man.
"Listen, your lazy and the reason your lazy is because your coach was lazy. You've never been driven the way im going to ride your azzzes, so get ready, daam it, get ready".

Worst speech I have ever heard.

---

I suppose the players liked Wyking, but they must have questioned whether he had a plan for success, just based on the last two years. If Fox said something like, "I've coached defenses that win games and we can do that here! You'll work hard, probably harder than you ever have before, but it will make a difference."

As the saying goes: you only get one chance to make a first impression and if that video was it, Fox missed the target - not just with the players, but with recruits.

the players liked Wyking?

Do the inter webs ever lie?

They liked losing???

mbBear said:

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the players liked Wyking?

---

My sense was that most of the players pretty much liked Wyking Jones, but they probably had the vague sense that the coaching wasn't very good.

Them mostly keeping up the spirit throughout the year and winning those last three conference games indicated to me that WJ was holding things together okay. This is not to say, even for a second, that we couldn't do way better.

I'm still really curious as to why Sueing's leaving. I had three OTHER players on my wouldn't-be-surprised-if-they-left list (besides McNeill and Davis).

If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

helltopay1 said:

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If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

---

Dear Helltopay - Austin was one of our leaders in scoring as well as assists. I know McNeil was a freshman last year but given that we had two pretty decent bigs and from what I saw of McNeil this year when he did pay point ... I have a hard time seeing how he can be better than Austin.

We have been lacking in team assists the last several years and I think the last 4-5 games we finally saw improvement. I say we let Austin continue to drive that improvement and bring some stability to the program wherever we can find it.

Austin will need to get better next year (he improved mightily during last season) or Cal will start a freshman at point.

helltopay1 said:

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If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

---

McNeill was given minutes at PG this past season, but wasn't cutting it. He looks like a good player, but doesn't think like one. Bradley was better at the point, which surprised me and showed me a lot.

If Austin can pass a LITTLE more and a little better, defend a little better and not shoot a jumper to where it looks like a medicine ball is coming out of his hands, point guard won't be one of our problem areas next season.

Right now, I want Bradley and Vanover to be motivated and happy. We can build around them with whomever else we can keep/get.

helltopay1 said:

---

If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

---

If that's the case then he isn't coming back because that just ain't happening. As rough as the offense was at times, it was even worse when Austin was out of the lineup.

TonyTiger said:

---

He didn't read the room. These players liked Wyking. Wyking was this nice guy they liked and trusted despite having no coaching exp. Fox got here and they decided to hear what he had to say and he basically called Wyking a bad coach who didn't drive them but he was going to drive them like never before. He in essence spent the whole conversation talking against Wyking and them and they were not in the mood to hear that.

He committed three strikes in 15 minutes. I see why no recruits came from Georgia if thats how he talks to young man.
"Listen, your lazy and the reason your lazy is because your coach was lazy. You've never been driven the way im going to ride your azzzes, so get ready, daam it, get ready".

Worst speech I have ever heard.

---

If that's accurate, Cal fans should be hoping the whole team turns over.

The message may be unrefined, but it's probably dead on. As it's currently composed, the team has the opportunity to be mediocre if it works at maximum capacity. Working harder than the opposition is one of the few things Cal will have going for it, assuming the players are receptive to Fox's message. Based on the level of play last season, did you get the impression Cal's practices were rigorous and structured? I certainly didn't.

helltopay1 said:

---

If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

---

I don't think I want to go through another season of McNeil trying to learn how to play point guard. I agree on Austin. He is Charlie Moore, without any outside shot, but able to finish at the rim better than Moore. Neither one could defend the point of attack very well. McNeill was better at that than either Austin or Moore, IMO. I sure hope Brown comes, and that he is decent at running point.

71Bear said:

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Big C said:

---

Not sure why Sueing is transferring, but here are three "typical" reasons that do not apply in this case:
- not enough playing time
- academics (leaving before he got kicked out)
- homesick for his fly-over state

So, what's left?

Not happy with the Fox hire (wanted DeCuire)?
Not happy with the Fox hire (preferred WJ)?

Wants to play for a program that's a proven winner?

Wanted to go to Haas Business school but didn't get in?

Doesn't get along too well with some of the remaining players?

Doesn't care for the overall Cal culture or city of Berkeley?

In relationship with the woman who is transferring from the women's team?

After Yale whupped us, he got a "Roy-Williams-to-Jared-Haase-extended-handshake" from the Yale coach?

Other?

Where he decides to go will tell us a lot.

---

The same reason as Travis Reid (trans. from Stanford to Kentucky). He wants to play for a program that can go deep into the tournament.

---

Grad transfer is a totally different animal.

Civil Bear said:

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helltopay1 said:

---

If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

---

If that's the case then he isn't coming back because that just ain't happening. As rough as the offense was at times, it was even worse when Austin was out of the lineup.

---

Paris' best game as a PG was the UW game, and that was our best game. We looked really purposeful in the half court like we knew what to do, with nice entry passes into the paint. That was probably the only game I felt like they looked that way. If Paris can play like that, we have something.

Dear Civil: you didn't refute my point. You simply said that the backup PG was much worse than Austin. Most folks would call that a distinction without a difference. McNeill would probably have stayed if Austin had not been brought in by WJ.

Big C said:

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mbBear said:

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the players liked Wyking?

---

My sense was that most of the players pretty much liked Wyking Jones, but they probably had the vague sense that the coaching wasn't very good.

Them mostly keeping up the spirit throughout the year and winning those last three conference games indicated to me that WJ was holding things together okay. This is not to say, even for a second, that we couldn't do way better.

I'm still really curious as to why Sueing's leaving. I had three OTHER players on my wouldn't-be-surprised-if-they-left list (besides McNeill and Davis).

---

Certainly doesn't matter now, but not sure how you saw the Jones firing playing out, seeing on the surface it seems like Knowlton fired him once the team voiced real concern about him coming back.

KoreAmBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

---

If that's the case then he isn't coming back because that just ain't happening. As rough as the offense was at times, it was even worse when Austin was out of the lineup.

---

Paris' best game as a PG was the UW game, and that was our best game. We looked really purposeful in the half court like we knew what to do, with nice entry passes into the paint. That was probably the only game I felt like they looked that way. If Paris can play like that, we have something.

---

I would LOVE to know if someone other than Jones put the UW game plan together cause we looked NIGHT AND DAY different in respect to our execution of what we were trying to do and how we attacked the zone with the 5 flashing to the FT soft spot in that zone.

mbBear said:

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Big C said:

---

mbBear said:

---

the players liked Wyking?

---

My sense was that most of the players pretty much liked Wyking Jones, but they probably had the vague sense that the coaching wasn't very good.

Them mostly keeping up the spirit throughout the year and winning those last three conference games indicated to me that WJ was holding things together okay. This is not to say, even for a second, that we couldn't do way better.

I'm still really curious as to why Sueing's leaving. I had three OTHER players on my wouldn't-be-surprised-if-they-left list (besides McNeill and Davis).

---

Certainly doesn't matter now, but not sure how you saw the Jones firing playing out, seeing on the surface it seems like Knowlton fired him once the team voiced real concern about him coming back.

---

No doubt there were a few players (and parents) who knew the coaching wasn't that good and maybe thought they weren't being used well enough (in one case, especially). I was just saying that WJ wasn't disliked by the majority of the team.

McNeill isn't good enough at PG. If that's his issue .... best of luck at his next stop.

Austin isn't good enough to be a P5 starter. It says more about the state of our program that he's our starter than anything else. Hopefully the Freshman PG recruit stays with us and can take over when he gets on campus.

Losing Suing hurts but who can really blame someone for wanting a better situation after the past two seasons?

KoreAmBear said:

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TonyTiger said:

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He didn't read the room. These players liked Wyking. Wyking was this nice guy they liked and trusted despite having no coaching exp. Fox got here and they decided to hear what he had to say and he basically called Wyking a bad coach who didn't drive them but he was going to drive them like never before. He in essence spent the whole conversation talking against Wyking and them and they were not in the mood to hear that.

He committed three strikes in 15 minutes. I see why no recruits came from Georgia if thats how he talks to young man.
"Listen, your lazy and the reason your lazy is because your coach was lazy. You've never been driven the way im going to ride your azzzes, so get ready, daam it, get ready".

Worst speech I have ever heard.

---

"Also, if you make the NBA, which you probably won't from tape I've seen, at most it will be 4 years. Then your azz gonna hit the pavement. Your handlers probably will eat most of that anyway. Have you seen Next Friday? Guy won the lotto and still was poor. Get ready for blue collar work unless you study. Let's win a title!!!"

---

The part of that speech that stuck out for me was when he said that the average NBA career is like 4 years, and then slipped in, "Ill get you 4 more."

I was like, "wait, what? Did he just try to claim that he's going to extend everyone's NBA career thru his masterful teaching?"

That, to me, was extremely arrogant, manipulative, and wrong/incorrect.
Can't trust a guy who claims that, unless he's Mike Kzeshefski (sp!)

we need the 3 wyking recruits to come. we are desperate. with vanover and bradley we will be young but watchable.. in my opinion paris austin and harris dyson should spend lots of time over the summer improving their outside shooting..

socaltownie said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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helltopay1 said:

---

If McNeill is told that he has a shot of starting at PG instead of Austin, he might stay. The coach has to mean it. Starting Austin is a recipe for going 3-15 in conference play. Brown needs to be told he has a shot at maximum playing time also. I like Austin , but in reality, he is neither a PG nor a SG. Players like Austin would be walk-ons at major powerhouse schools.

---

If that's the case then he isn't coming back because that just ain't happening. As rough as the offense was at times, it was even worse when Austin was out of the lineup.

---

Paris' best game as a PG was the UW game, and that was our best game. We looked really purposeful in the half court like we knew what to do, with nice entry passes into the paint. That was probably the only game I felt like they looked that way. If Paris can play like that, we have something.

---

I would LOVE to know if someone other than Jones put the UW game plan together cause we looked NIGHT AND DAY different in respect to our execution of what we were trying to do and how we attacked the zone with the 5 flashing to the FT soft spot in that zone.

---

I agree completely. Every other game I watched, it was usually Bradley (the smallest guy on the court) who flashed to the middle the most. Against UW, they actually looked like they knew how to execute against a zone.

I doubt Fox cares that much. It's a rebuild either way. Fox wants to get as many of his guys to build his program as possible. And he doesn't need upperclassmen who aren't going to be around when the rebuild blossoms who aren't "all in".

Fox probably sees it as one more scholarship to use to get someone he wants who will be in the program for 4-5 years.

GBear4Life said:

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I doubt Fox cares that much. It's a rebuild either way. Fox wants to get as many of his guys to build his program as possible. And he doesn't need upperclassmen who aren't going to be around when the rebuild blossoms who aren't "all in".

Fox probably sees it as one more scholarship to use to get someone he wants who will be in the program for 4-5 years.

---

Coaches have a window of opportunity to succeed at a program before fans, players, and most importantly recruits stop buying what they are selling. If Cal goes 8-10 next year, Fox can sell that to recruits. If we repeat our 3-15 record, makes recruiting tough. He certainly doesn't want an attitude problem, but he most certainly wants the best roster he can have to get the best record next year. We are not going to replace our leading scorers with better players next year. I guarantee Fox does not want guys to leave.

OaktownBear said:

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GBear4Life said:

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I doubt Fox cares that much. It's a rebuild either way. Fox wants to get as many of his guys to build his program as possible. And he doesn't need upperclassmen who aren't going to be around when the rebuild blossoms who aren't "all in".

Fox probably sees it as one more scholarship to use to get someone he wants who will be in the program for 4-5 years.

---

Coaches have a window of opportunity to succeed at a program before fans, players, and most importantly recruits stop buying what they are selling. If Cal goes 8-10 next year, Fox can sell that to recruits. If we repeat our 3-15 record, makes recruiting tough. He certainly doesn't want an attitude problem, but he most certainly wants the best roster he can have to get the best record next year. We are not going to replace our leading scorers with better players next year. I guarantee Fox does not want guys to leave.

---

I'm sure he'd prefer his best player with two years of eligibility left to stay, but I think he's not fretting over it because he sees the upside.

He's not going to be judged on next year or even the year after. It will be year 3 and 4 that he has to hit his mark. There is a benefit to using that scholly on a guy who in theory is comparable or better than the departed who will be in his prime in years 3/4.

His sell to recruits for this year and next year: YOU CAN PLAY RIGHT AWAY and will have an opportunity to SHOWCASE yourself. Depth chart is wide open. That's his pitch with or without Seuing.