UVA is not a blue blood, it's not another athletics-before-academics, school, it's not another private selling admission spots for money, or known to cheat on the US News survey. Yet here they are, here are their basketball facilities:
https://uvaathletics.exposure.co/firstclass-facilities

Do not find virtue in being bad, providing bad facilities, and wasting millions doing so.

I just watched the video on that page, plus two more about John Paul Jones Arena.
I guess you are taking your annual jealousy/remorse tour?

This is all just a big competitive sloshing around of money by donors, administrators, businesses and athletics.
There are more important things in life to compete in.

....My wife mentioned to me that she heard the Final Four is a bigger financial deal for the NCAA than the Super Bowl is to the NFL. And only 17% of the take goes to cover the schools' expenses. That's a lot of revenue over expenses. I pointed out how the players get none of that surplus. Haha. What a scheme! Amateurism.
If I were on the Supreme Court, I'd upend that notion.

59bear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I just watched the video on that page, plus two more about John Paul Jones Arena.
I guess you are taking your annual jealousy/remorse tour?

This is all just a big competitive sloshing around of money by donors, administrators, businesses and athletics.
There are more important things in life to compete in.

....My wife mentioned to me that she heard the Final Four is a bigger financial deal for the NCAA than the Super Bowl is to the NFL. And only 17% of the take goes to cover the schools' expenses. That's a lot of revenue over expenses. I pointed out how the players get none of that surplus. Haha. What a scheme! Amateurism.
If I were on the Supreme Court, I'd upend that notion.

---

If you were on the Supreme Court and upended that "scheme" you'd kill the tournament. When players become direct employees, schools will drop the sport and there will be no tournament. The only way the college game survives player payment (beyond scholarships covering the full cost of attendance) is for that payment to come from sources other than the schools. The tournament thrives, in part, because of the ties to the competing schools of people who otherwise have little or no interest in basketball. Take away the college connection and you have all the fan interest of the old AAU tournaments of my youth or the G League playoffs..

---

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ncaa-pay-college-athletes-final-four_n_5ca61cb9e4b082d775e1d201

tequila4kapp said:

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socaliganbear said:

---

UVA is not a blue blood, it's not another athletics-before-academics, school, it's not another private selling admission spots for money, or known to cheat on the US News survey. Yet here they are, here are their basketball facilities:
https://uvaathletics.exposure.co/firstclass-facilities

Do not find virtue in being bad, and providing bad facilities, and wasting millions doing so.

---

How many schools have facilities like this and didn't make the final 4?

This arms race is absurd.

---

Personally, I thinks it's far more absurd to pay coaches millions to NOT coach here, then go cheap everywhere else simply to secure mediocrity.

I do not think it's absurd to provide the students we make money off of, facilities comparable with what other students have across the country have.

You want to see something "funny". Compare those digs to the Forsh dorm at UVA.

https://housing.virginia.edu/area/138

Now to be fair that upper classmen start to get the lux end stuff that gets a lot of flax in the higher ed community. But this is what you get (a triple, YEAH!) when the university requires frosh to "live on Grounds".

At some point you have to conclude that higher education is deeply corrupt.

I am currently at UVA Law and the grounds here are beautiful. It is such a stark difference from Cal - no packs of transients walking around the campus and surrounding area, the campus buildings are all nice looking (no Evans Hall type crap) and not falling apart (Haviland Hall has chicken wire to hold the cracked concrete in place). I went to the UVA v Pitt game and the arena is absolutely stunning. Multiple recreation centers on campus. Tons of great food. Our only excuse is the price of land/lack of availability (People's Park should have bulldozers at work on it right now).

Side note, their starting PG is a three star true frosh from SoCal.

tequila4kapp said:

---

socaliganbear said:

---

UVA is not a blue blood, it's not another athletics-before-academics, school, it's not another private selling admission spots for money, or known to cheat on the US News survey. Yet here they are, here are their basketball facilities:
https://uvaathletics.exposure.co/firstclass-facilities

Do not find virtue in being bad, and providing bad facilities, and wasting millions doing so.

---

How many schools have facilities like this and didn't make the final 4?

This arms race is absurd.

---

Agreed. It's almost nauseating how we have to pamper these student/athletes to come here. Other college departments can barely print out anything on paper to save money.

Big C said:

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We don't need to have something utra-fancy, but we need a dedicated practice facility where the players know they can go any time, to work on their game. Not having one is hurting our chances, mainly because it hurts recruiting.

We're either in this to compete, or we're not.

---

agree

having a dedicated practice facility is the cost of doing business in the Pac12.
11 teams have one. We don't.

Cal's does not need to be like Oregon's. It just should be a comparable facility to others in the conference.

------

As for UVA's campus being very nice... there are a tons of campuses around the U.S. which are much nicer, cleaner, and free of bad sights. I really wish we could clean up Telegraph, and I don't mean it needs to look like Santana Row. For example, if it looked like College Avenue, that would be an improvement.

That's why Cal is not for everyone.

But Cal is in Berkeley, which is in the Bay Area, and near Silicon Valley, the economic and innovation center of the Universe, and is in California, a state with diversity and natural beauty, and the gateway to Asia.

There are a lot of pluses that makes it a very unique and special place.

deleted double post

socaliganbear said:

---

UVA is not a blue blood, it's not another athletics-before-academics, school, it's not another private selling admission spots for money, or known to cheat on the US News survey. Yet here they are, here are their basketball facilities:
https://uvaathletics.exposure.co/firstclass-facilities

Do not find virtue in being bad, providing bad facilities, and wasting millions doing so.

---

well they only have to support 24 teams .. oh wait.

Somebody remind me why Haas cannot be the "dedicated practice facility" (shared by the men and women)?

Big C said:

---

We don't need to have something utra-fancy, but we need a dedicated practice facility where the players know they can go any time, to work on their game. Not having one is hurting our chances, mainly because it hurts recruiting.

We're either in this to compete, or we're not.

---

But it's not really just the practice facility. It's the luxurious other stuff that comes with it too. A practice facility without the dedicated lounge, study center, locker room, restaurant, film room, Game Center, etc, isn't "really" competing. And all that other stuff is absurd. Look, I love college sports as much as anyone but this is wrong. Maybe it's time to get out of college sports or go Ivy and just be done with it.

It's just the price of doing business. You're either evolving, or you're getting left behind. If you want to watch D-III hoops, that option is there.

tequila4kapp said:

---

Big C said:

---

We don't need to have something utra-fancy, but we need a dedicated practice facility where the players know they can go any time, to work on their game. Not having one is hurting our chances, mainly because it hurts recruiting.

We're either in this to compete, or we're not.

---

But it's not really just the practice facility. It's the luxurious other stuff that comes with it too. A practice facility without the dedicated lounge, study center, locker room, restaurant, film room, Game Center, etc, isn't "really" competing. And all that other stuff is absurd. Look, I love college sports as much as anyone but this is wrong. Maybe it's time to get out of college sports or go Ivy and just be done with it.

---

calumnus said:

---

Somebody remind me why Haas cannot be the "dedicated practice facility" (shared by the men and women)?

---

Volleyball, gymnastics...

Even D-3 schools are in this competition. In the mid 2000s, our AD's former school RPI SPENT $92m on a new 5200 seat football stadium, a new 1200 seat basketball arena, a fully equipped 4,800 square foot strength and conditioning center that connects to a professional-caliber sports medicine suite with assorted training rooms and an renovated ice hockey arena.

Now it is in the midst of a $1B fund drive in part to:

1. "BUILD ...indoor Olympic-quality swimming pool, outdoor tennis courts, practice and playing fields for field hockey and lacrosse, and an indoor field house for track and field, and tennis. These professional-quality facilities will allow Rensselaer to host regional, national, and international athletic tournaments. As we all know, athletics is a great force for community, for the spectators as well as for the players. In building Phase II of East Campus Athletic Villiage, we will deepen that sense of community-as well as encourage our students to grow in every aspect of their lives".

2. REMODEL THEIR D-1 ICE HOCKEY ARENA: "The Houston Field House, the current home of our Division I men's and women's ice hockey teams, seats more than 4,800 fans, and features six locker rooms, numerous offices, and several meeting spaces. In order to ensure these student-athletes realize their full potential as individuals and team members, we are committed to providing them with first-rate student support services, exceptional coaching and teaching, and world-class facilities. New facilities, or upgrades to current facilities, have been completed by over 75% of hockey programs in the ECAC and Hockey East. Evidence shows there is a strong correlation between investing in new or upgraded facilities and winning NCAA titles for our competitors. While our new locker room, lounge, video room, and weight room have helped us remain competitive, we have much more work to do in order to bring home the national championship. Potential enhancements to the East End of the Houston Field House include an educational area and hockey improvement room to enhance the student-athlete experience; four new corporate suites and event spaces; a complete renovation of stadium seating; upgrades to restrooms, and additional facilities; and renovations to visiting teams' locker rooms." https://giving.rpi.edu/building-out-the-campus/

Can Cal not invest and stay in the game?

Don't understand all this talk about cal being too cheap proving we are not serious about sports

We spent $350M on renovation of our football stadium

That would build one heck of a basketball practice facility

HoopDreams said:

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We spent $350M on renovation of our football stadium

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Spent $350 million at the urging of a football coach whose Cal tenure started rapidly downhill almost at the same time ground was broken.

Sigh.

GoCal80 said:

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calumnus said:

---

Somebody remind me why Haas cannot be the "dedicated practice facility" (shared by the men and women)?

---

Volleyball, gymnastics...

---

Can the beach volleyball court be made to convertible? Gymnastics in Hearst?

How about a deal to allow our players to use the Warriors' practice faculty in downtown Oakland? It is right next to BART, 10 minutes from Berkely BART.

calumnus said:

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Somebody remind me why Haas cannot be the "dedicated practice facility" (shared by the men and women)?

---

It's not just the regularly scheduled in-season practices (October-early March). It's the year-round facility where they can go to work on their game, 365, 24/7. Part of it's the PERCEPTION of having a place like that, but you know basketball players, a lot of them DO work on their game for hours and hours, every week.

flounder said:

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I am currently at UVA Law and the grounds here are beautiful. It is such a stark difference from Cal - no packs of transients walking around the campus and surrounding area, the campus buildings are all nice looking (no Evans Hall type crap) and not falling apart (Haviland Hall has chicken wire to hold the cracked concrete in place). I went to the UVA v Pitt game and the arena is absolutely stunning. Multiple recreation centers on campus. Tons of great food. Our only excuse is the price of land/lack of availability (People's Park should have bulldozers at work on it right now).

Side note, their starting PG is a three star true frosh from SoCal.

---

Your post implies the Cal campus is not beautiful. Really? I think it is beautiful, in fact.

tequila4kapp said:

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How many schools have facilities like this and didn't make the final 4?

This arms race is absurd.

---

Thank you!
I agree!

Bearprof said:

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flounder said:

---

I am currently at UVA Law and the grounds here are beautiful. It is such a stark difference from Cal - no packs of transients walking around the campus and surrounding area, the campus buildings are all nice looking (no Evans Hall type crap) and not falling apart (Haviland Hall has chicken wire to hold the cracked concrete in place). I went to the UVA v Pitt game and the arena is absolutely stunning. Multiple recreation centers on campus. Tons of great food. Our only excuse is the price of land/lack of availability (People's Park should have bulldozers at work on it right now).

Side note, their starting PG is a three star true frosh from SoCal.

---

Your post implies the Cal campus is not beautiful. Really? I think it is beautiful, in fact.

---

And I have seen the Charlottesville campus on numerous occasions.

59bear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I just watched the video on that page, plus two more about John Paul Jones Arena.
I guess you are taking your annual jealousy/remorse tour?

This is all just a big competitive sloshing around of money by donors, administrators, businesses and athletics.
There are more important things in life to compete in.

....My wife mentioned to me that she heard the Final Four is a bigger financial deal for the NCAA than the Super Bowl is to the NFL. And only 17% of the take goes to cover the schools' expenses. That's a lot of revenue over expenses. I pointed out how the players get none of that surplus. Haha. What a scheme! Amateurism.
If I were on the Supreme Court, I'd upend that notion.

---

If you were on the Supreme Court and upended that "scheme" you'd kill the tournament. When players become direct employees, schools will drop the sport and there will be no tournament. The only way the college game survives player payment (beyond scholarships covering the full cost of attendance) is for that payment to come from sources other than the schools. The tournament thrives, in part, because of the ties to the competing schools of people who otherwise have little or no interest in basketball. Take away the college connection and you have all the fan interest of the old AAU tournaments of my youth or the G League playoffs..

---

Oh ye of little imagination.

concordtom said:

---

59bear said:

---

concordtom said:

---

I just watched the video on that page, plus two more about John Paul Jones Arena.
I guess you are taking your annual jealousy/remorse tour?

This is all just a big competitive sloshing around of money by donors, administrators, businesses and athletics.
There are more important things in life to compete in.

....My wife mentioned to me that she heard the Final Four is a bigger financial deal for the NCAA than the Super Bowl is to the NFL. And only 17% of the take goes to cover the schools' expenses. That's a lot of revenue over expenses. I pointed out how the players get none of that surplus. Haha. What a scheme! Amateurism.
If I were on the Supreme Court, I'd upend that notion.

---

If you were on the Supreme Court and upended that "scheme" you'd kill the tournament. When players become direct employees, schools will drop the sport and there will be no tournament. The only way the college game survives player payment (beyond scholarships covering the full cost of attendance) is for that payment to come from sources other than the schools. The tournament thrives, in part, because of the ties to the competing schools of people who otherwise have little or no interest in basketball. Take away the college connection and you have all the fan interest of the old AAU tournaments of my youth or the G League playoffs..

---

Oh ye of little imagination.

---

how about if companies sponsored teams and the players wore their corporate logos on their jerseys.

it could be the university of california yokohama tires golden bears!

tequila4kapp said:

---

Big C said:

---

We don't need to have something utra-fancy, but we need a dedicated practice facility where the players know they can go any time, to work on their game. Not having one is hurting our chances, mainly because it hurts recruiting.

We're either in this to compete, or we're not.

---

But it's not really just the practice facility. It's the luxurious other stuff that comes with it too. A practice facility without the dedicated lounge, study center, locker room, restaurant, film room, Game Center, etc, isn't "really" competing. And all that other stuff is absurd. Look, I love college sports as much as anyone but this is wrong. Maybe it's time to get out of college sports or go Ivy and just be done with it.

---

Exactly. Where do you draw the line? This is like a group of parents trying to outdo each other in spoiling their children.

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

Big C said:

---

We don't need to have something utra-fancy, but we need a dedicated practice facility where the players know they can go any time, to work on their game. Not having one is hurting our chances, mainly because it hurts recruiting.

We're either in this to compete, or we're not.

---

But it's not really just the practice facility. It's the luxurious other stuff that comes with it too. A practice facility without the dedicated lounge, study center, locker room, restaurant, film room, Game Center, etc, isn't "really" competing. And all that other stuff is absurd. Look, I love college sports as much as anyone but this is wrong. Maybe it's time to get out of college sports or go Ivy and just be done with it.

---

Exactly. Where do you draw the line? This is like a group of parents trying to outdo each other in spoiling their children.

---

You draw the line at somewhere that's not last in the conference. For example, maybe 'conference average". Or, if you want to go "bare bones" (and I'm not against this), maybe 9th or 10th. But not twelfth. Because right now, we got nothing. And that's ridiculous.

The facilities do look nice and I'm sure the players appreciate what they have. Now, I'm a regular Virginia student and I knock on the door: "Hey, can I come in and play on the practice court and maybe go through the training table line?" "Beat it, kid, you're just a regular student who has to pay his way through school. This is for the pampered players who don't pay anything. Go find yourself some rich donors to build a plush dorm for you to live in."

Big C said:

---

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

Big C said:

---

We don't need to have something utra-fancy, but we need a dedicated practice facility where the players know they can go any time, to work on their game. Not having one is hurting our chances, mainly because it hurts recruiting.

We're either in this to compete, or we're not.

---

But it's not really just the practice facility. It's the luxurious other stuff that comes with it too. A practice facility without the dedicated lounge, study center, locker room, restaurant, film room, Game Center, etc, isn't "really" competing. And all that other stuff is absurd. Look, I love college sports as much as anyone but this is wrong. Maybe it's time to get out of college sports or go Ivy and just be done with it.

---

Exactly. Where do you draw the line? This is like a group of parents trying to outdo each other in spoiling their children.

---

You draw the line at somewhere that's not last in the conference. For example, maybe 'conference average". Or, if you want to go "bare bones" (and I'm not against this), maybe 9th or 10th. But not twelfth. Because right now, we got nothing. And that's ridiculous.

---

Average is fine with me. Over the top isn't. The problem is "average" keeps going up and up.

Chabbear said:

---

Even D-3 schools are in this competition. In the mid 2000s, our AD's former school RPI SPENT $92m on a new 5200 seat football stadium, a new 1200 seat basketball arena, a fully equipped 4,800 square foot strength and conditioning center that connects to a professional-caliber sports medicine suite with assorted training rooms and an renovated ice hockey arena.

Now it is in the midst of a $1B fund drive in part to:

1. "BUILD ...indoor Olympic-quality swimming pool, outdoor tennis courts, practice and playing fields for field hockey and lacrosse, and an indoor field house for track and field, and tennis. These professional-quality facilities will allow Rensselaer to host regional, national, and international athletic tournaments. As we all know, athletics is a great force for community, for the spectators as well as for the players. In building Phase II of East Campus Athletic Villiage, we will deepen that sense of community-as well as encourage our students to grow in every aspect of their lives".

2. REMODEL THEIR D-1 ICE HOCKEY ARENA: "The Houston Field House, the current home of our Division I men's and women's ice hockey teams, seats more than 4,800 fans, and features six locker rooms, numerous offices, and several meeting spaces. In order to ensure these student-athletes realize their full potential as individuals and team members, we are committed to providing them with first-rate student support services, exceptional coaching and teaching, and world-class facilities. New facilities, or upgrades to current facilities, have been completed by over 75% of hockey programs in the ECAC and Hockey East. Evidence shows there is a strong correlation between investing in new or upgraded facilities and winning NCAA titles for our competitors. While our new locker room, lounge, video room, and weight room have helped us remain competitive, we have much more work to do in order to bring home the national championship. Potential enhancements to the East End of the Houston Field House include an educational area and hockey improvement room to enhance the student-athlete experience; four new corporate suites and event spaces; a complete renovation of stadium seating; upgrades to restrooms, and additional facilities; and renovations to visiting teams' locker rooms." https://giving.rpi.edu/building-out-the-campus/

Can Cal not invest and stay in the game?

---

I went to Cal for undergrad and UVA for law school. In terms of athletics, there are two significant differences. First, UVA has a mega-donor. Paul Jones has a net worth of $5 billion and gave $35 million just for the basketball arena (which is named after his father). Second, UVA has hired excellent coaches in the revenue sports. We all see the brilliance of hiring Tony Bennett. The current football coach, Bronco Mendenhall, had taken BYU to a bowl game 11 years in a row. He has already turned around a losing UVA program and taken it to bowl games the last two years. With that said, mega-donors create unique pitfalls. Jones used his influence on the Board to try and get the President fired, which caused a major university crisis and Berkeley style protests at a school where protests are not the norm.

Bearprof said:

---

flounder said:

---

I am currently at UVA Law and the grounds here are beautiful. It is such a stark difference from Cal - no packs of transients walking around the campus and surrounding area, the campus buildings are all nice looking (no Evans Hall type crap) and not falling apart (Haviland Hall has chicken wire to hold the cracked concrete in place). I went to the UVA v Pitt game and the arena is absolutely stunning. Multiple recreation centers on campus. Tons of great food. Our only excuse is the price of land/lack of availability (People's Park should have bulldozers at work on it right now).

Side note, their starting PG is a three star true frosh from SoCal.

---

Your post implies the Cal campus is not beautiful. Really? I think it is beautiful, in fact.

---

UVA is bucolic and old looking Jeffersonian buildings. Cal's campus is urban and somewhat eclectic in sense of buildings. OTOH, who has a dramatic Bay Area Golden Gate Bridge view I ask you?

Rather spend the extra money on a top coaching staff, who if they win, will spur the funding for the practice facility. Do you see donors forking over big bucks for the existing program?