Another Foxing mistake.

parentswerebears said:

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Another Foxing mistake.

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Best to Coach Grace.

Curious why Fox didn't want him.

smokeyrover said:

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Curious why Fox didn't want him.

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Probably can't afford to make Grace Associate Head Coach. Not a remedy for winning. Grace I'm sure had demands. He got it at Vandy!

parentswerebears said:

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Another Foxing mistake.

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It's Foxing ridiculous

PtownBear1 said:

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parentswerebears said:

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Another Foxing mistake.

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It's Foxing ridiculous

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I have a feeling we are going to use that verb a lot.

Fox had to make his buddy Trent associate head coach, I suppose.

Maybe Fox thinks he doesn't need a good recruiter on staff. Yikes.

parentswerebears said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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parentswerebears said:

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Another Foxing mistake.

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It's Foxing ridiculous

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I have a feeling we are going to use that verb a lot.

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Like when we play Stanford.
Fox you!

Grace good guy and a decent recruiter

He didn't coach a lick

Maybe with a different head coach he would

but under Jones he was on the road nearly all the time.

Huh? Where did you hear this? I thought Johnson is going to be director of b-ball operations. We still have one more coach to go.

calfanz said:

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Grace good guy and a decent recruiter

He didn't coach a lick

Maybe with a different head coach he would

but under Jones he was on the road nearly all the time.

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Geez, I need a gig like that.

All expenses paid to travel all the time, make friends, watch basketball.
No responsibility for results.

parentswerebears said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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parentswerebears said:

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Another Foxing mistake.

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It's Foxing ridiculous

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I have a feeling we are going to use that verb a lot.

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Yes, I would imagine we're in for many Foxed up years. At least you can take pleasure in knowing you were the first to use it, among Cal fans at least.

calfanz said:

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Grace good guy and a decent recruiter

He didn't coach a lick

Maybe with a different head coach he would

but under Jones he was on the road nearly all the time.

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Given how many holes need to be filled on the roster, and the urgent need to fill them with guys who are good enough to play in the Pac-12, Fox better have an assistant who is on the road all the time recruiting his tail off.

We won't enjoy the results if Fox and Johnson are just trying to coach up recruiting classes that are far behind the Pac-12 average.

BearSD said:

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calfanz said:

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Grace good guy and a decent recruiter

He didn't coach a lick

Maybe with a different head coach he would

but under Jones he was on the road nearly all the time.

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Given how many holes need to be filled on the roster, and the urgent need to fill them with guys who are good enough to play in the Pac-12, Fox better have an assistant who is on the road all the time recruiting his tail off.

We won't enjoy the results if Fox and Johnson are just trying to coach up recruiting classes that are far behind the Pac-12 average.

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Fox just brought on a recruiter, which is good since we may not have much of a recruiting class left shortly.

I am wondering what was so great about Grace's recruiting that his departure is so mourned. Seems to me Walker did the far heavier lifting.

bluesaxe said:

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BearSD said:

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calfanz said:

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Grace good guy and a decent recruiter

He didn't coach a lick

Maybe with a different head coach he would

but under Jones he was on the road nearly all the time.

---

Given how many holes need to be filled on the roster, and the urgent need to fill them with guys who are good enough to play in the Pac-12, Fox better have an assistant who is on the road all the time recruiting his tail off.

We won't enjoy the results if Fox and Johnson are just trying to coach up recruiting classes that are far behind the Pac-12 average.

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Fox just brought on a recruiter, which is good since we may not have much of a recruiting class left shortly.

I am wondering what was so great about Grace's recruiting that his departure is so mourned. Seems to me Walker did the far heavier lifting.

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According to his Wiki:

"Grace's former recruits and players who have played in the NBA as of 2018 include Lonzo Ball, T.J. Leaf, Ike Anigbogu, Travis Wear, Kevon Looney, Jerryd Bayless, Zach LaVine, Eric Moreland, Jared Cunningham, Kyle Anderson, Jordan Adams, Norman Powell, Lou Amundsen, Jonah Bolden, Aaron Holiday, and Thomas Welsh.

On October 1, 2018 Grace landed Joel Brown as a Cal commit, the number 4 ranked player in Canada (from Toronto), and the number 12 ranked PG in the class of 2019 according to 247Sports. https://www.zagsblog.com/2018/10/02/joel-brown-to-cal/"

Say goodbye to Brown? From the zag article: "Brown selected the Bears over Clemson, Minnesota, and Vanderbilt.

"I've decided to commit to Cal because they've made me a priority," Brown told ZAGSBLOG. "Coach [Wyking] Jones and Coach [David] Grace did a great job communicating with me, my family and high school coach. We were all on the same page. They came to school on a day I didn't have workouts to speak to me about my future at Cal and what Cal has to offer."

Grace was only at Cal for almost about year; Walker been here since Jones was hired. Walker's recruits were players on his AAU team...not sure how sustainable that pipe is. In Grace short time at Cal, getting Brown was huge...I'm sure he was making in-roads with other recruits.

I understand this is a simplification, but you are telling me he

1) recruited at UCLA; and
2) recruited a 3 star pg to Cal

oski003 said:

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I understand this is a simplification, but you are telling me he

1) recruited at UCLA; and
2) recruited a 3 star pg to Cal

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He hasn't had much time to build any momentum. Recruiting is certainly his thing.

It's less about criticizing Grace and more about criticizing the assumption that a new coach is making a colossal mistake by not retaining him. Along those same lines, Vanover is a good player with potential. However, the board is infatuated with him despite the fact that Sueing is a much better player.

oski003 said:

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It's less about criticizing Grace and more about criticizing the assumption that a new coach is making a colossal mistake by not retaining him. Along those same lines, Vanover is a good player with potential. However, the board is infatuated with him despite the fact that Sueing is a much better player.

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The name of the game these days is "upside."

Teams win by scoring more points than their opponents. They don't win by having players with more "upside."

oski003 said:

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Teams win by scoring more points than their opponents. They don't win by having players with more "upside."

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Maybe not this year, but they do eventually if it's real upside.

Sueing's a decent player after two years. Vanover was always going to take some time to develop but he'll end up the more valuable player in two years imo.

It's possible that Vanover will be as good in 2 years as Sueing is now. He may end up being better, but I doubt it. Sueing is a much better player right now. Anyway, this board has its favorites.

Gotta be honest. Never understood this board's infatuation with him. His alleged recruiting prowess literally never manifested into anything on our roster and his talent as a coach definitely didn't show much of anything looking at how god awful the team was.

touchdownbears43 said:

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Gotta be honest. Never understood this board's infatuation with him. His alleged recruiting prowess literally never manifested into anything on our roster and his talent as a coach definitely didn't show much of anything looking at how god awful the team was.

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He was not at Cal long enough to make a visible impact.

I would have preferred we keep Grace over the Aussie guy, because I think we need someone adept at West Coast/LA recruiting. However, end of the day all responsibility is on Fox. He has to have the staff he wants and he has to close on any recruits.

Tosh sure didn't make an impact recruiting at UW his short time there :P

bluesaxe said:

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BearSD said:

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calfanz said:

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Grace good guy and a decent recruiter

He didn't coach a lick

Maybe with a different head coach he would

but under Jones he was on the road nearly all the time.

---

Given how many holes need to be filled on the roster, and the urgent need to fill them with guys who are good enough to play in the Pac-12, Fox better have an assistant who is on the road all the time recruiting his tail off.

We won't enjoy the results if Fox and Johnson are just trying to coach up recruiting classes that are far behind the Pac-12 average.

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Fox just brought on a recruiter, which is good since we may not have much of a recruiting class left shortly.

I am wondering what was so great about Grace's recruiting that his departure is so mourned. Seems to me Walker did the far heavier lifting.

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Yeah, but Walker was running out of guys he used to coach. But I agree that we never really found out whether Grace could be a good recruiter for us. He didn't have much to sell and he wasn't here long to sell it.

oski003 said:

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It's less about criticizing Grace and more about criticizing the assumption that a new coach is making a colossal mistake by not retaining him. Along those same lines, Vanover is a good player with potential. However, the board is infatuated with him despite the fact that Sueing is a much better player.

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A 7'3" player who can shoot is a lot more appealing than a 6'6" player who only shoots 30% from the college 3 point line.

I would be willing to bet that Vanover will be a much better player than Sueing by the end of next year.

Yogi Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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It's less about criticizing Grace and more about criticizing the assumption that a new coach is making a colossal mistake by not retaining him. Along those same lines, Vanover is a good player with potential. However, the board is infatuated with him despite the fact that Sueing is a much better player.

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A 7'3" player who can shoot is a lot more appealing than a 6'6" player who only shoots 30% from the college 3 point line.

I would be willing to bet that Vanover will be a much better player than Sueing by the end of next year.

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Zion Williams shot 33%. Therefore, Vanover > Zion > Sueing. If only other things mattered.

oski003 said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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It's less about criticizing Grace and more about criticizing the assumption that a new coach is making a colossal mistake by not retaining him. Along those same lines, Vanover is a good player with potential. However, the board is infatuated with him despite the fact that Sueing is a much better player.

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A 7'3" player who can shoot is a lot more appealing than a 6'6" player who only shoots 30% from the college 3 point line.

I would be willing to bet that Vanover will be a much better player than Sueing by the end of next year.

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Zion Williams shot 33%. Therefore, Vanover > Zion > Sueing. If only other things mattered.

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Zion Williamson 2P 74.7%
Vanover 2P 55.4%
Sueing 2P% 50.5%

Zion > Vanover > Kobe Bryant > Sueing?

I hope Vanover ends up being awesome and stays. It's hard to argue against Sueing, the team's leading scorer who is also an underclassmen, who shot 55% in conference, scored 15+ ppg in conference, and led the team in rebounds and steals. Perhaps Vanover can play more minutes and still be more effective than he is now. Perhaps he can draw fouls too. Sueing makes 7x more free throws per game.

oski003 said:

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Zion > Vanover > Kobe Bryant > Sueing?

I hope Vanover ends up being awesome and stays. It's hard to argue against Sueing, the team's leading scorer who is also an underclassmen, who shot 55% in conference, scored 15+ ppg in conference, and led the team in rebounds and steals.

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27.3% 3 point shooting in conference

Yogi Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Zion > Vanover > Kobe Bryant > Sueing?

I hope Vanover ends up being awesome and stays. It's hard to argue against Sueing, the team's leading scorer who is also an underclassmen, who shot 55% in conference, scored 15+ ppg in conference, and led the team in rebounds and steals.

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27.3% 3 point shooting in conference

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You win. You found the only stat that mattered in basketball and your guy is better at it than Sueing. CONGRATS.

oski003 said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Zion > Vanover > Kobe Bryant > Sueing?

I hope Vanover ends up being awesome and stays. It's hard to argue against Sueing, the team's leading scorer who is also an underclassmen, who shot 55% in conference, scored 15+ ppg in conference, and led the team in rebounds and steals.

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27.3% 3 point shooting in conference

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You win. You found the only stat that mattered in basketball and your guy is better at it than Sueing. CONGRATS.

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I don't have a "guy." I'm trying to explain to you why people would pick Vanover over Sueing, but like on most topics, you don't care to listen.

Yogi Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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oski003 said:

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Zion > Vanover > Kobe Bryant > Sueing?

I hope Vanover ends up being awesome and stays. It's hard to argue against Sueing, the team's leading scorer who is also an underclassmen, who shot 55% in conference, scored 15+ ppg in conference, and led the team in rebounds and steals.

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27.3% 3 point shooting in conference

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You win. You found the only stat that mattered in basketball and your guy is better at it than Sueing. CONGRATS.

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I don't have a "guy." I'm trying to explain to you why people would pick Vanover over Sueing, but like on most topics, you don't care to listen.

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In this discussion, when you say, "would be willing to bet that Vanover will be a much better player than Sueing by the end of next year," Sueing is my guy and Vanover is yours and you are saying more than the walk back you just did. I only read what you actually write and not what you are trying to do. Have a good night and Go Bears.