oski003 said:
It's possible that Vanover will be as good in 2 years as Sueing is now. He may end up being better, but I doubt it. Sueing is a much better player right now. Anyway, this board has its favorites.
Maybe you haven't been reading posts long enough to realize that any time you are critical of a Cal player, you are going to offend someone, and we all have our favorites. Actually, I'm going to disagree a little with your brief assessment of Vanover and Sueing, as to which one is the fan favorite. Vanover may get cheered a lot by fans at the games. He's unique at 7-3, skinny and frail looking, pretty slow, and not very strong. He has been held up to a lot ridicule from posters here for all these things, plus not being able to defend the post at all, not much of a rebounder, can't dribble, not much post game, and gets pushed around a lot. By contrast the only thing Sueing seems to catch flak for in this board is his shooting stroke and three-point percentage. I think most fans here acknowledge his scoring ability and other assets. I feel he is more of a fan favorite, albeit a quiet one. I think fans cheer for Vanover because they realize he arrived as an under-developed kid, who they hope that at 7-3, might turn into something.
It is hard, maybe unfair perhaps, to compare these two players. Let's face it: Every player on this team had deficiencies. Sueing and Vanover are very different players. They play different positions. Sueing is a scorer. He can create his own shot. Vanover can't do that yet. He is a catch and shoot guy, while Sueing can't or won't do that yet. Maybe he is not quick enough. Vanover has a classic smooth stroke. Sueing has an unorthodox shot with a slow release (and he needs to fix that, IMO). Sueing drives well going left, but he doesn't drive right. His handle with his right is not so good. Vanover has no handle, and shouldn't put the ball on the floor much just yet. Sueing makes these circular drives from the right side going left with his left hand to create his shot. He is very predicatable. He is a bit of a ball hog. Vanover can't drive yet. Sueing is a little better defender, but no one on the team was a good defender, except for JHD on occasion. Vanover can block far more shots than Sueing, and when he learns technique to control the ball and turn his blocks into steals, he could be very good. He is slow-footed, but that can be improved. Each one brings different skills to the Cal team, and both are valuable to the team. You don't win those last 3 games without both of them starting and playing major minutes.
I also think you have chosen cumulative stats which make Sueing look like the better player. He had the best cumulative stats partially because he played more minutes than anyone else. (JHD actually had more steals on a per minute basis) I think a good way to compare Sueing and Vanover would be to use statistics from the last 9 games, when Vanover broke into the starting lineup and played almost 30 minutes, the point at which Cal began to get better as a team. This compares the two on an equal basis, both starters playing about 30 minutes. Except that up to that point, Sueing had way more experience, maybe 50 games as a D-1 starter playing over 30 minutes a game. But here are the statistics from the last 9 games:
Minutes: Sueing 31.7, Vanover 27.8
2pt %: Sueing 0.532, Vanover 0.549
3pt %: Sueing 0.410, Vanover 0.389
FT%: Sueing 0.611, Vanover 0.583
Rebounds: Sueing 5.7, Vanover 5.0
Assists: Sueing 2.7,Vanover 0.3
Steals: Sueing 2.3, Vanover 0.4
Blocks: Sueing 0.8, Vanover 2.4
Turnovers: Sueing 2.2, Vanover 1.0
Points: Sueing 13.1, Vanover 11.7
This shows that Sueing was better in some areas and Vanover was better in others, and both need improvement is several areas. Some of Sueing's stats are better because he played 4 minutes more than Vanover. If Vanover had played as many minutes as Sueing, both at the same statistical rate, Vanover would have gotten 5.7 rebounds and 13.4 points, about equal to Sueing's statistics for the 9 games where they both were starters playing major minutes. I was surprised by all these stats.
Finally, Sueing did not improve much from a freshman to a sophomore. Most of his stats were almost the same year to year. His best improvement came in FT shooting, from 67% to 78%. His rebounds, assists and points all went up slightly and his turnovers went down slightly. It could be that he has reached a peak. He does need to improve, and many say the improvement comes from the 2nd to the 3rd year. I hope so.
Vanover, needs improvement in many things as well. I'm amazed at how much better he was from the early season to the final 9 games. If he continues to improve at this pace, it would take the pressure off Sueing to have to be the primary scorer and play more of a team game and do other things. If Cal doesn't get both of these players back, it could be hard to equal the kind of play they showed over the last 9 games, and especially the last 3.
SFCityBear
