Rebuild.

17,654 Views | 119 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by SFCityBear
NVGolfingBear
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We very rarely go into downtown Reno for anything. We actually live in Sparks near the eastside foothills. The banana belt of the Truckee meadows, 5 deg warmer in the summer but 5 deg warmer in the winter.

I like Montreaux as a course but have no desire to live in that community. Always follow the Cal golfers playing in the Reno Tahoe Open now called the Barracuda Championship.

UNR is the local focal point but we hardly ever go - maybe 5 games between FB and BB in 10+ years. Mostly because the quality is weak. And Musselhead was a joke of coach especially last season when he blew it big time. And Alford...well I'll defer to Shocky's opinion of him. He is a POS.

But if you are interested in the outdoors, dark skies and have a small telescope, looking for fossils and just plain relaxing with little local stress, this is not a bad place.

graguna
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NVGolfingBear said:

We very rarely go into downtown Reno for anything. We actually live in Sparks near the eastside foothills. The banana belt of the Truckee meadows, 5 deg warmer in the summer but 5 deg warmer in the winter.

I like Montreaux as a course but have no desire to live in that community. Always follow the Cal golfers playing in the Reno Tahoe Open now called the Barracuda Championship.

UNR is the local focal point but we hardly ever go - maybe 5 games between FB and BB in 10+ years. Mostly because the quality is weak. And Musselhead was a joke of coach especially last season when he blew it big time. And Alford...well I'll defer to Shocky's opinion of him. He is a POS.

But if you are interested in the outdoors, dark skies and have a small telescope, looking for fossils and just plain relaxing with little local stress, this is not a bad place.


I grew up in Reno. Moved to Berkeley to attend CAL and stayed. ( went back to Reno for 2 years to launch a branch of my company ).

Great place to live.

People not from Reno equate Reno with the downtown casino area. Locals spend almost no time there.

oskidunker
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As a 21 year old my former wife and I took the bus to Sparks and stayed at John Ausquas nugget. Sign said you won't believe it. Room was smaller than a cruise ship room but had great time. Is that still There?
Go Bears!
joe amos yaks
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oskidunker said:

As a 21 year old my former wife and I took the bus to Sparks and stayed at John Ausquas nugget. Sign said you won't believe it. Room was smaller than a cruise ship room but had great time. Is that still There?

Are you or your former wife still 21?
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
oskidunker
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Unfortunately not that was around 1968
Go Bears!
GBear4Life
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the minority get the most attention when they're the loudest (anti-free speech snowflake safe space shut down opposing opinions rather than engage them types etc etc).

They tend to get discussed as the majority (sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't I suppose) because moderates are typically very bad at calling extremists out who are part of their "tribe" so to speak. Moderates tend to be more apolitical but at bottom they are still less likely to both identify and call out their own tribe. The "extremist" on the opposite end of the spectrum ends up being the best at calling out extremes, thus creating an entirely different conundrum. You see this in religion and family too, not just politics. It's universal.

Cal students and administration were mum on calling out the anti-free speechers. Then it emboldens ideological opponents to garner support for being the "only voices" calling out this phenomenon when in reality the majority of all sides may not approve of such behavior either.

Moderates are partisan and tribal too. And they're very poor (generally) at reigning in "extremes".
joe amos yaks
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OT cont'd -- Gotta' leave room for the wishy-washy, the ambivalent, and the anarchists.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
NVGolfingBear
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Yeah the Nugget is still there and the rooms have been remodeled about 5 times since 1969! We still catch some 2nd string acts there - Blood, Sweat and Tears, Ottmar Liebert, Alan Parsons Project, etc.

Okay maybe 3rd string but it is 15 minutes from home max with no traffic and free parking. Where can you find something like that in the Bay Area? Uh oh I just bashed the Bay Area...
annarborbear
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Sounds like a cultural Oasis up there.
joe amos yaks
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Do you get the Four Seasons, Little Anthony and the Imperials, Preston the Magician, and/or the Vonzellos'?

[edited]
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
calumnus
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NVGolfingBear said:

We very rarely go into downtown Reno for anything. We actually live in Sparks near the eastside foothills. The banana belt of the Truckee meadows, 5 deg warmer in the summer but 5 deg warmer in the winter.

I like Montreaux as a course but have no desire to live in that community. Always follow the Cal golfers playing in the Reno Tahoe Open now called the Barracuda Championship.

UNR is the local focal point but we hardly ever go - maybe 5 games between FB and BB in 10+ years. Mostly because the quality is weak. And Musselhead was a joke of coach especially last season when he blew it big time. And Alford...well I'll defer to Shocky's opinion of him. He is a POS.

But if you are interested in the outdoors, dark skies and have a small telescope, looking for fossils and just plain relaxing with little local stress, this is not a bad place.




My family on my mom's side has Northern Nevada roots, both Paiute and settler. My great-great-great grandfather was sheriff for the Carson Valley out of Genoa.
calbearinamaze
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joe amos yaks said:

Do you get the Four Seasons, Little Anthony and the Imperials, and/or Preston and the Vonzellos'?
Litttle Anthony of course. He's "only" 78 and still going strong..Just the thought makes me weep.... a little.


If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
SFCityBear
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Free speech is OT, or should be OT on this forum. Not relevant.

There is no freedom of speech on these forums. What we have is a User's Agreement, which we all agreed to abide by when we signed up to get the privilege to post here. Here is what the User's Agreement says about calling someone a rude arrogant jackass, or similar:

"Personal Attacks - Bear Insider will not tolerate hateful speech, degrading remarks, or personal attacks made about other posters, athletes/coaches/faculty at University of California, or anyone else.

Due to the size, scope and diversity of this forum, subjects that elicit differing opinions and passionate beliefs will undoubtedly be posted. Please remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Refrain from attacking users in a malicious manner because their opinions and remember to direct your disagreement at a poster's argument and not at the poster as a person. Many good threads have been derailed in the past because they have devolved from constructive debate into name calling.

Criticisms of coaches or administrators at University of California need to be kept to their official capacities as coach or administrator. Attacking these individuals personally is not an appropriate discourse on this forum. This includes calling for the firing of a coach or administrator. In no way does this mean that we agree with the performance of a coach, or are hedging our alignment with a coaching staff or athletic department."

GreyBear and some others started this very popular forum, and they developed those rules to control totally free speech for a reason. I've twice been banned for long periods by GreyBear himself, for what I cannot remember. Since then I have tried to tone it down, but still have my moments of getting ticked off and exercising no self control. It requires that one thicken one's skin, and get to a happier place. Since the passing of GreyBear, fewer posters seem to get banned. In the absence of close supervision by the moderators, it should be up to us to control our outbursts in accordance with Forum policy. Otherwise, it will get really nasty, and already has started again in that direction. If GreyBear were here, several of us would have been banned or suspended by now. I think the moderators have been tolerant enough now and we need to start monitoring ourselves like adults, so they don't have to step back in and boot some posters out of here.

The Arabs and the Israelis hate each other. The smart Arabs and the smart Israelis continue to talk to each other. Which is better than throwing rocks or rockets or shooting bullets and dropping bombs. What is the purpose of calling another person a vile name? Is it just to feel good, like, "Boy, I sure nailed the SOB with that one," didn't I? Aren't you also just trying to shut down his opinion, because you don't agree with it, and you can't seem to convince him otherwise? You will never be able to convince someone of your opinion if you don't engage with him, don't talk with him. If you start calling him names, you just get farther apart, and you both get madder and madder and ------ no where. Let's all try and get back to what GreyBear envisioned: Cal basketball.

I will if you will.
SFCityBear
joe amos yaks
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OnT -- Seems like it is "wait and see" until after next LoI player is signed and if he's a positive contribution to Coach Fox's young Bears roster.

It will most definitely be a test of the staff's teaching / coaching abilities. No surprise there. Things are looking up.

Go Bears!
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
Bear19
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I got the impression that the Jones recruited players who are transferring simply had very little interest in academics as a consideration in their decision. They seem to have had no tie to Cal itself, other than the basketball considerations. When Jones left, any reason for them to stay at Cal disappeared entirely.
oskidunker
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Uh oh. New coach. . We might win some games. Better leave v
Go Bears!
calumnus
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Bear19 said:

I got the impression that the Jones recruited players who are transferring simply had very little interest in academics as a consideration in their decision. They seem to have had no tie to Cal itself, other than the basketball considerations. When Jones left, any reason for them to stay at Cal disappeared entirely.


I do not think that is true or fair to the players.

Sueing was on the PAC-12 All-Academic Team.

Vanover's parting tweet "Dear Cal Family" made it clear he did establish strong connection to the school.

Similar with the others.

If it was just their attachment to Jones (because?) why didn't they just transfer when he was fired? Instead they transferred after their initial meeting with Fox, which did not go well.

In Vanover's case, Musselman to Arkansas may have been a factor.

So it is fair to say basketball concerns were the biggest issue and overcame any attachment to the school, but I don't think it is fair to say they had no attachment to the school.

concordtom
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BC Calfan said:

If Fox re-recruited just 2 of McNeil, Sueing or Vannover and held on to Smith this wouldn't be a rebuild. I fear his lackluster recruiting reputation held suit in this regard. If he brings back the those guys, and he's a significant improvement over Wyking as a coach, we could have challenged for a .500 record.


I haven't been following at all, but did see that opening speech with tough talk.
What a huge ass backfire in his face.
It wasn't WE, as I recall. It was Me vs You. Nobody likes that.
Some pep talk. Sheesh.
joe amos yaks
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https://bearinsider.com/forums/3/topics/87918/1

Paraphrasing Coach Fox to the team 2 April 2019.

>"We really don't know each other. We do have one thing in common . . . we all in this room chose this place.

Your lives have been turned upside down a little bit . . . I totally get that, OK . . . I get that . . .

In this World you better make sure you have a good education . . .
So I am going to hold you accountable for your academic performance. I owe that to you . . .

I am going to hold you accountable for your athletic performance . . . I am going to drive you to a higher level . . .
I am going to demand of you things that you are capable of accomplishing, but that right now might be uncomfortable . . .

Success is a choice . . . and you have to make that decision as a young Man . . .
I take winning extremely seriously . . . I came here to win!

We are all going to contribute in a way that correlates to WINNING.

Our focus is going to be on you improving . . . starting today . . .

TOGETHER! . . ."<
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
oskidunker
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Cal recruiting a 6'10 guy from Germany. Friend from Rivals said. For this year. Not much information yet. Visiting June6-8

https://basketball.eurobasket.com/player/Lars-Thiemann/Germany/Bayer-Giants-Leverkusen/441952
Go Bears!
calumnus
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joe amos yaks said:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/3/topics/87918/1

Paraphrasing Coach Fox to the team 2 April 2019.

>"We really don't know each other. We do have one thing in common . . . we all in this room chose this place.

Your lives have been turned upside down a little bit . . . I totally get that, OK . . . I get that . . .

In this World you better make sure you have a good education . . .
So I am going to hold you accountable for your academic performance. I owe that to you . . .

I am going to hold you accountable for your athletic performance . . . I am going to drive you to a higher level . . .
I am going to demand of you things that you are capable of accomplishing, but that right now might be uncomfortable . . .

Success is a choice . . . and you have to make that decision as a young Man . . .
I take winning extremely seriously . . . I came here to win!

We are all going to contribute in a way that correlates to WINNING.

Our focus is going to be on you improving . . . starting today . . .

TOGETHER! . . ."<



Imagine you are a student-athlete at UC Berkeley who had just made the PAC-12 All-Academic team studying at the most difficult and competitive school in the PAC-12 (really the entire country) and who lead the team in scoring, rebounding, steals and was second in blocks only to a guy who is 7'3". Now imagine a guy comes in who went to Garden City CC and Eastern New Mexico and he is going to lecture YOU about the importance of education and how the way he is going to improve things while making $millions is to be a tough ass and hold YOU accountable and make YOU work even harder in the classroom and your athletic performance?

The speech was a good one for the AD and maybe a lot of fans, but it was a horrible speech for the players, who know far better than Fox the effort it takes to be a student athlete at Cal. More effort from them cannot be the answer to why their coach got fired and this guy got hired (implying his firing was their fault). They needed to be related to, acknowledged, and given hope that the new coach could help them win and/or make basketball fun again more than just busting their *ss when they are already busting their *ass.
calbearinamaze
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calumn said:



Imagine you are a student-athlete at UC Berkeley who had just made the PAC-12 All-Academic team studying at the most difficult and competitive school in the PAC-12 and who lead the team in scoring, rebounding, steals and was second in blocks only to a guy who is 7'3". Now imagine a guy comes in who went to Garden City CC and Eastern New Mexico and he is going to lecture YOU about the importance of education and how the way he is going to improve things while making $millions is to be a tough ass and hold YOU accountable and make YOU work even harder in the classroom and your athletic performance?

The speech was a good one for the AD and maybe a lot of fans, but it was a horrible speech for the players, who know far better than Fox the effort it takes to be a student athlete at Cal. More effort from them cannot be the answer to why their coach got fired and this guy got hired (implying his firing was their fault). They needed to be related to, acknowledged, and given hope that the new coach could help them win and/or make basketball fun again more than just busting their *ss when they are already busting their *ass.
+1000
If you believe in forever
Then life is just a one-night stand
If there's a rock and roll heaven
Well you know they've got a hell of a band
tsubamoto2001
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The speech doesn't matter anymore. The guys that left are gone. If Fox does well, that speech will be forgotten. From here on out, it's about the results. Either he's improved on his Georgia experience or he hasn't.

I'm not gonna put the transfers on him; those things happen when there's a coaching change. So far, I think he's added some guys that have a chance to do something in Kuany and Klonaras. This isn't like the late adds that were obvious reaches in the 2 previous coaching changes. He kept the PG Brown and big Thorpe on board, too, which is nice. And there's also news out there that we're in the mix for a center prospect from Germany.

My feeling so far isn't one of dread, like after the Wyking hire. I think Fox has a reasonable chance to do a decent job if he truly has learned from why the Georgia job didnt work out for him. Of course, it's a big if.

calumnus said:

joe amos yaks said:

https://bearinsider.com/forums/3/topics/87918/1

Paraphrasing Coach Fox to the team 2 April 2019.

>"We really don't know each other. We do have one thing in common . . . we all in this room chose this place.

Your lives have been turned upside down a little bit . . . I totally get that, OK . . . I get that . . .

In this World you better make sure you have a good education . . .
So I am going to hold you accountable for your academic performance. I owe that to you . . .

I am going to hold you accountable for your athletic performance . . . I am going to drive you to a higher level . . .
I am going to demand of you things that you are capable of accomplishing, but that right now might be uncomfortable . . .

Success is a choice . . . and you have to make that decision as a young Man . . .
I take winning extremely seriously . . . I came here to win!

We are all going to contribute in a way that correlates to WINNING.

Our focus is going to be on you improving . . . starting today . . .

TOGETHER! . . ."<



Imagine you are a student-athlete at UC Berkeley who had just made the PAC-12 All-Academic team studying at the most difficult and competitive school in the PAC-12 and who lead the team in scoring, rebounding, steals and was second in blocks only to a guy who is 7'3". Now imagine a guy comes in who went to Garden City CC and Eastern New Mexico and he is going to lecture YOU about the importance of education and how the way he is going to improve things while making $millions is to be a tough ass and hold YOU accountable and make YOU work even harder in the classroom and your athletic performance?

The speech was a good one for the AD and maybe a lot of fans, but it was a horrible speech for the players, who know far better than Fox the effort it takes to be a student athlete at Cal. More effort from them cannot be the answer to why their coach got fired and this guy got hired (implying his firing was their fault). They needed to be related to, acknowledged, and given hope that the new coach could help them win and/or make basketball fun again more than just busting their *ss when they are already busting their *ass.
stu
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BEARUPINDC said:

calumn said:



Imagine you are a student-athlete at UC Berkeley who had just made the PAC-12 All-Academic team studying at the most difficult and competitive school in the PAC-12 and who lead the team in scoring, rebounding, steals and was second in blocks only to a guy who is 7'3". Now imagine a guy comes in who went to Garden City CC and Eastern New Mexico and he is going to lecture YOU about the importance of education and how the way he is going to improve things while making $millions is to be a tough ass and hold YOU accountable and make YOU work even harder in the classroom and your athletic performance?

The speech was a good one for the AD and maybe a lot of fans, but it was a horrible speech for the players, who know far better than Fox the effort it takes to be a student athlete at Cal. More effort from them cannot be the answer to why their coach got fired and this guy got hired (implying his firing was their fault). They needed to be related to, acknowledged, and given hope that the new coach could help them win and/or make basketball fun again more than just busting their *ss when they are already busting their *ass.
+1000
+1001

However things have been looking better since. Perhaps Fox learned something.
stu
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oskidunker said:

Cal recruiting a 6'10 guy from Germany.
This page shows Lars an inch taller and includes 2018-19 stats.

Apparently made all-league per NBBL
oskidunker
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6'10 is ok. It will be interesting to see if these foreign players are as advanced as the incoming freshmen. Some claim better fundamentals. Maybe we see some version of the Euro Step.
Go Bears!
joe amos yaks
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And then pursue your BB inspiration, career and education at tOSu, uArk, SMu, and SDstu? What happened to Vandy?

I see it as the coach being clear about what to expect. You don't want guys who don't want to be there . . . and these kids are too smart to bite on sweet and vague talk. This isn't uK/uLouie.

Trust Coach Fox.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
oskidunker
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Excellent post , Joe.
Go Bears!
Civil Bear
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joe amos yaks said:

And then pursue your BB inspiration, career and education at tOSu, uArk, SMu, and SDstu? What happened to Vandy?

I see it as the coach being clear about what to expect. You don't want guys who don't want to be there . . . and these kids are too smart to bite on sweet and vague talk. This isn't uK/uLouie.

Trust Coach Fox.
Agreed. The handwringing over the Fox speech seems overblown. Anyone that has played sports competitively has heard a version of it at some point or another.
GBear4Life
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For a player, a new coach is effectively losing the boss that hired you. You don't know if the new boss thinks you're good, will recognize you're previous hard work, or would prefer to have somebody they know come in and replace you. If you have an opportunity to get another job with a boss who specifically desires you and your services, rather than stay with a boss that inherited you, that's naturally an alluring opportunity worth considering.

There's little reason to believe any of these players based their decision in any part on Fox's speech.
calumnus
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Civil Bear said:

joe amos yaks said:

And then pursue your BB inspiration, career and education at tOSu, uArk, SMu, and SDstu? What happened to Vandy?

I see it as the coach being clear about what to expect. You don't want guys who don't want to be there . . . and these kids are too smart to bite on sweet and vague talk. This isn't uK/uLouie.

Trust Coach Fox.
Agreed. The handwringing over the Fox speech seems overblown. Anyone that has played sports competitively has heard a version of it at some point or another.


Yes, it was a generic speech, especially from back in the day when players had no options, and coach's rule was absolute. A more extreme example: Monty's public shove of Allen Crabbe on TV was defended by many on this board as "something every coach did 50 years ago when I was playing in high school."

It is not a good speech for the 21st century, especially at Berkeley. It was not appropriate for the situation. You only have one chance to make a first impression.

The reaction of the players on the video said it all. The result was the majority of the starters, including the most productive, left the team within a week.

Why try to make excuses for it? It was a tactical error, a more significant mistake than a missed layup or a coach calling a bad timeout. Are only the amateur players to be held accountable and the guy paid $millions has ZERO accountability for his mistakes?

It was a mistake. Everything Fox has done since has been good. If people didn't keep defending it, people like me would stop trying to explain why it was a mistake and we could move on with the rooting for him to rebuild the program.

Civil Bear
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calumnus said:

Civil Bear said:

joe amos yaks said:

And then pursue your BB inspiration, career and education at tOSu, uArk, SMu, and SDstu? What happened to Vandy?

I see it as the coach being clear about what to expect. You don't want guys who don't want to be there . . . and these kids are too smart to bite on sweet and vague talk. This isn't uK/uLouie.

Trust Coach Fox.
Agreed. The handwringing over the Fox speech seems overblown. Anyone that has played sports competitively has heard a version of it at some point or another.




The reaction of the players on the video said it all. The result was the majority of the starters, including the most productive, left the team within a week.

Why try to make excuses for it? It was a tactical error, a more significant mistake than a missed layup or a coach calling a bad timeout. Are only the amateur players to be held accountable and the guy paid $millions has ZERO accountability for his mistakes?

It was a mistake. Everything Fox has done since has been good. If people didn't keep defending it, people like me would stop trying to explain why it was a mistake and we could move on with the rooting for him to rebuild the program.


You have no idea if that is true. It's highly doubtful it's true, but even if it were, I'm confident any respectable coach would have no issue with players that were unwilling to be held accountable left the team.

If you see that as a defense of the speech then so be it. Just know I am unhappy enough with the Fox hire that I discontinued my season tickets after nearly 30 years.
HoopDreams
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from the video I saw, Lars got skills and can be a game changer for cal
stu
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HoopDreams said:

from the video I saw, Lars got skills and can be a game changer for cal
Where did you find the video?

Now the BI front-page article lists Lars as a 7-footer. Amazing growth spurt from 6-10 to 7-0 in less than a day!
HoopDreams
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stu said:

HoopDreams said:

from the video I saw, Lars got skills and can be a game changer for cal
Where did you find the video?

Now the BI front-page article lists Lars as a 7-footer. Amazing growth spurt from 6-10 to 7-0 in less than a day!

Linked is the BI article
 
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