Is Joel Brown now in the gym working out with his new Cal Bears teammates. Will this site's analysts soon have access and be able to interview & observe Cal's new players integrate with the returning veterans?

Are there any recent internet updates available which indicate how Thiemann and Klonaras are doing in their international action? Does anyone have links which give access to their games?

Intuit said:

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Is Joel Brown now in the gym working out with his new Cal Bears teammates. Will this site's analysts soon have access and be able to interview & observe Cal's new players integrate with the returning veterans?

Are there any recent internet updates available which indicate how Thiemann and Klonaras are doing in their international action? Does anyone have links which give access to their games?

---

Due to lack of facilities, the team has now been relegated to playing pick up ball at a park on MLK Jr. Way. I forget which park that was. We used to go all the time.

Yes, I am sure you are right. What insight.

There was one called Oregon where lots of us KAs used to play

"due to lack of facilities?" how come the AD isn't demanding the team have access to Haas???goods grief!!!!!!!

Intuit said:

---

Is Joel Brown now in the gym working out with his new Cal Bears teammates. Will this site's analysts soon have access and be able to interview & observe Cal's new players integrate with the returning veterans?

Are there any recent internet updates available which indicate how Thiemann and Klonaras are doing in their international action? Does anyone have links which give access to their games?

---

KoreAmBear said:

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Intuit said:

---

Is Joel Brown now in the gym working out with his new Cal Bears teammates. Will this site's analysts soon have access and be able to interview & observe Cal's new players integrate with the returning veterans?

Are there any recent internet updates available which indicate how Thiemann and Klonaras are doing in their international action? Does anyone have links which give access to their games?

---

Due to lack of facilities, the team has now been relegated to playing pick up ball at a park on MLK Jr. Way. I forget which park that was. We used to go all the time.

---

Perhaps Grove Park, on MLK Way between Russell and Oregon. MLK Way was known as Grove St. through Oakland and Berkeley until around 1984, when the name was changed to MLK Way. Whoever Grove was, he lost his street but his name was kept on the park.

The tennis and basketball courts were re-done a couple of years ago. They were nice last time I was there.

Cal8285 said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Intuit said:

---

Is Joel Brown now in the gym working out with his new Cal Bears teammates. Will this site's analysts soon have access and be able to interview & observe Cal's new players integrate with the returning veterans?

Are there any recent internet updates available which indicate how Thiemann and Klonaras are doing in their international action? Does anyone have links which give access to their games?

---

Due to lack of facilities, the team has now been relegated to playing pick up ball at a park on MLK Jr. Way. I forget which park that was. We used to go all the time.

---

Perhaps Grove Park, on MLK Way between Russell and Oregon. MLK Way was known as Grove St. through Oakland and Berkeley until around 1984, when the name was changed to MLK Way. Whoever Grove was, he lost his street but his name was kept on the park.

The tennis and basketball courts were re-done a couple of years ago. They were nice last time I was there.

---

What happened to Live Oak Park? That was where some of the best pick-up games in the Bay Area could be found, other than the Harmon Gym, back in the 60s. Phil Chenier owned Live Oak park, and anyone who played there.

Cal8285 said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Intuit said:

---

Is Joel Brown now in the gym working out with his new Cal Bears teammates. Will this site's analysts soon have access and be able to interview & observe Cal's new players integrate with the returning veterans?

Are there any recent internet updates available which indicate how Thiemann and Klonaras are doing in their international action? Does anyone have links which give access to their games?

---

Due to lack of facilities, the team has now been relegated to playing pick up ball at a park on MLK Jr. Way. I forget which park that was. We used to go all the time.

---

Perhaps Grove Park, on MLK Way between Russell and Oregon. MLK Way was known as Grove St. through Oakland and Berkeley until around 1984, when the name was changed to MLK Way. Whoever Grove was, he lost his street but his name was kept on the park.

The tennis and basketball courts were re-done a couple of years ago. They were nice last time I was there.

---

I think that's it. I don't know if we called it The Grove or Grove Park or just said let's go.

still don't understand this business of 'not having facilities available" for the BB players...what thge hell is going on??

Still there and still hotbed of pick-up hoops, although walking by from time to time, I sense that the games aren't nearly as good.

These comments about not having facilities on campus are absurd. They have been practicing in the upstairs gym (gold gym) several mornings when I have been there, including yesterday. Doors closed with a sign, but I peeked in. I guess they may practice on the Haas floor on other occasions.

Bearprof said:

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These comments about not having facilities on campus are absurd. They have been practicing in the upstairs gym (gold gym) several mornings when I have been there, including yesterday. Doors closed with a sign, but I peeked in. I guess they may practice on the Haas floor on other occasions.

---

While I agree that the facilities issue is blown out of proportion (other than negative recruiting, which is valid IMHO), I have two points/questions . . .

1. Closing the Gold gym and putting a sign on the door, seems to be a much different paradigm than what I've heard described in the past, where that was not an option for the players or the team. I'm curious if policies have changed in that regard.

2. I've also heard that players want 24/7 access to a closed off facility to work on their shooting/drills on their own (or with team/mates). I'd love that too, but never thought it was worth the cost for a middle-aged grumpkin, like myself. I guess, if anyone deserves it, the players do. Also curious as to what shooting options players have in the campus neighborhood compared to other schools.

BeachedBear said:

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Bearprof said:

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These comments about not having facilities on campus are absurd. They have been practicing in the upstairs gym (gold gym) several mornings when I have been there, including yesterday. Doors closed with a sign, but I peeked in. I guess they may practice on the Haas floor on other occasions.

---

While I agree that the facilities issue is blown out of proportion (other than negative recruiting, which is valid IMHO), I have two points/questions . . .

1. Closing the Gold gym and putting a sign on the door, seems to be a much different paradigm than what I've heard described in the past, where that was not an option for the players or the team. I'm curious if policies have changed in that regard.

2. I've also heard that players want 24/7 access to a closed off facility to work on their shooting/drills on their own (or with team/mates). I'd love that too, but never thought it was worth the cost for a middle-aged grumpkin, like myself. I guess, if anyone deserves it, the players do. Also curious as to what shooting options players have in the campus neighborhood compared to other schools.

---

1. I can confirm #1. I've seen both men's and women's practices/workouts in the gold gym with the sign on the door. Not sure what you heard that was different than that. I've never seen VB or any other sport practice in the gold gym.

2. Yes, players want 7/24 access to shooting. Occasionally I'll see a player shooting in the RSF but they are just with the rest of us, and they typically want their own basket to shoot on which is only sometimes available. Basically the gold gym/rsf is a poor option compared to a dedicated practice facility. College facilities also have other amenities such as player lounge, etc.

I doubt a D1 player goes to any outdoor court around campus, and even gyms that have a court are usually too crowded to practice.

BeachedBear said:

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Bearprof said:

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These comments about not having facilities on campus are absurd. They have been practicing in the upstairs gym (gold gym) several mornings when I have been there, including yesterday. Doors closed with a sign, but I peeked in. I guess they may practice on the Haas floor on other occasions.

---

While I agree that the facilities issue is blown out of proportion (other than negative recruiting, which is valid IMHO), I have two points/questions . . .

1. Closing the Gold gym and putting a sign on the door, seems to be a much different paradigm than what I've heard described in the past, where that was not an option for the players or the team. I'm curious if policies have changed in that regard.

2. I've also heard that players want 24/7 access to a closed off facility to work on their shooting/drills on their own (or with team/mates). I'd love that too, but never thought it was worth the cost for a middle-aged grumpkin, like myself. I guess, if anyone deserves it, the players do. Also curious as to what shooting options players have in the campus neighborhood compared to other schools.

---

I will probably draw ire from some of you, but if we are going to tear down a historical landmark like Edwards Track and Field Stadium and replace it with classrooms, offices or living space, why can't we find room for a new Women's Gym or Arena, with facilities for both women's basketball and women's gymnastics, and give Haas back to men's basketball and men's gymnastics?

Haas, or any full court gym, also can have baskets on the sides, where players can shoot around or work with assistant coaches, alone or in small groups. Back in the day at Harmon, the Intramural league could have two or three full court games going at the same time between the baskets on opposite sides, albeit with a shorter full court length. Lunch time was great, where one could see or participate in several different pickup games, or just practice shooting. I guess I was lucky, as we had the same set-up in my high school, plus a few outdoor hoops in the schoolyard as well. Junior High (Middle School) was the same set-up.

I have a hard time grasping what it might be like to be in college at the greatest public university, and not have plenty of places on or near campus to practice or work on shooting, for members of the team or for the rest of the studentbody. Developing the body along with the mind was always the goal of education, but somewhere along the way priorities changed.

I can't think of a single school that has separate arenas for the men's and women's programs.

TheSouseFamily said:

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I can't think of a single school that has separate arenas for the men's and women's programs.

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Very, very, very old school. Don't even think it's legal anymore.

TheSouseFamily said:

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I can't think of a single school that has separate arenas for the men's and women's programs.

---

That school was once called the University of California. The men played at Harmon Gymnasium, and the women played at Hearst Gymnasium.

Stanford defeated Cal in the first women's intercollegiate game ever played, even thought the game was invented in the East. The game was played in a gym on Page street in San Francisco in 1896. Mrs Hearst donated the Hearst Gymnasium, which initially had a gym building and a basketball court, ball fields, and tennis courts outside. It burned down in 1922, and with money from Wm. Randolph Hearst, was rebuilt with swimming pools as well. In the 1960s, women's basketball and volleyball games were played in the building with the basketball court boundaries only 4 feet from the walls.

Fyght4Cal said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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I can't think of a single school that has separate arenas for the men's and women's programs.

---

Very, very, very old school. Don't even think it's legal anymore.

---

With all due respect, it is not exactly old school. Old school women's basketball was played primarily as a competition in gyms or outdoors, and often spectators were not allowed, as there was a sort of stigma against watching women in athletic activity. The spectators at the first women's intercollegiate game were all women, and so were the sportswriters. There was a fence and shrubbery around Hearst's first outdoor basketball court, I believe to prevent spectators from watching the women play. I know of no arenas around in my lifetime in the Bay Area devoted to women's basketball

I think it would be very modern thinking, forward thinking to do this, provide women their own arena. What they would need would be another Phoebe or Wm. Randolph Hearst to provide the initial donation. If there are no other schools doing this, let's be the first to do it. As for the legality, it only takes the will of the electorate to make something legal that was before illegal. We've done this before.

SFCityBear said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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I can't think of a single school that has separate arenas for the men's and women's programs.

---

That school was once called the University of California. The men played at Harmon Gymnasium, and the women played at Hearst Gymnasium.

Stanford defeated Cal in the first women's intercollegiate game ever played, even thought the game was invented in the East. The game was played in a gym on Page street in San Francisco in 1896. Mrs Hearst donated the Hearst Gymnasium, which initially had a gym building and a basketball court, ball fields, and tennis courts outside. It burned down in 1922, and with money from Wm. Randolph Hearst, was rebuilt with swimming pools as well. In the 1960s, women's basketball and volleyball games were played in the building with the basketball court boundaries only 4 feet from the walls.

---

WADR SFCB, your latest citation was the 1960's. The 60's were a long time ago. I should know. I was born in '61.

Kudos to Mrs. Hearst. The movement she began 123 years ago has brought us here. We are in the a Golden Era of women's sports. The future looks even brighter.

My high school had a Girls' Gym and a Boys' Gym (as it had when my mother attended, 20 years prior). That changed in the 80's after Title IX. They are now the South and North gyms. There will be no going back to separate, unequal facilities.

It would definitely have its advantages, but can you imagine what happens when the questions come pouring in: "Why does the men's arena seat 12,000, but the women's seats only 2,000?" "Why does the men's arena have certain bells and whistles that the women's doesn't have?" (Sure, there are common sense answers to these questions, but still... )

And a basketball arena that seats only 2,000, but has the "bells and whistles" is still going to cost a pretty penny. Meanwhile we can't even find the space or the $$$ for a practice facility.

SFCityBear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Bearprof said:

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These comments about not having facilities on campus are absurd. They have been practicing in the upstairs gym (gold gym) several mornings when I have been there, including yesterday. Doors closed with a sign, but I peeked in. I guess they may practice on the Haas floor on other occasions.

---

While I agree that the facilities issue is blown out of proportion (other than negative recruiting, which is valid IMHO), I have two points/questions . . .

1. Closing the Gold gym and putting a sign on the door, seems to be a much different paradigm than what I've heard described in the past, where that was not an option for the players or the team. I'm curious if policies have changed in that regard.

2. I've also heard that players want 24/7 access to a closed off facility to work on their shooting/drills on their own (or with team/mates). I'd love that too, but never thought it was worth the cost for a middle-aged grumpkin, like myself. I guess, if anyone deserves it, the players do. Also curious as to what shooting options players have in the campus neighborhood compared to other schools.

---

I will probably draw ire from some of you, but if we are going to tear down a historical landmark like Edwards Track and Field Stadium and replace it with classrooms, offices or living space, why can't we find room for a new Women's Gym or Arena, with facilities for both women's basketball and women's gymnastics, and give Haas back to men's basketball and men's gymnastics?

Haas, or any full court gym, also can have baskets on the sides, where players can shoot around or work with assistant coaches, alone or in small groups. Back in the day at Harmon, the Intramural league could have two or three full court games going at the same time between the baskets on opposite sides, albeit with a shorter full court length. Lunch time was great, where one could see or participate in several different pickup games, or just practice shooting. I guess I was lucky, as we had the same set-up in my high school, plus a few outdoor hoops in the schoolyard as well. Junior High (Middle School) was the same set-up.

I have a hard time grasping what it might be like to be in college at the greatest public university, and not have plenty of places on or near campus to practice or work on shooting, for members of the team or for the rest of the studentbody. Developing the body along with the mind was always the goal of education, but somewhere along the way priorities changed.

---

The basketball teams would like a practice facility built adjacent to Haas; however, this would be prohibitively expensive, as it would mean moving the utilities plant. The administration (assuming the funding comes through) has proposed a portion of the Edwards Field footprint, which is eminently sensible. As for a women's arena with Haas re-dedicated for men, that would be a non-starter, because an actual arena with seating, locker rooms, area for concessions, etc. would be way more expensive.

Fyght4Cal said:

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SFCityBear said:

---

TheSouseFamily said:

---

I can't think of a single school that has separate arenas for the men's and women's programs.

---

That school was once called the University of California. The men played at Harmon Gymnasium, and the women played at Hearst Gymnasium.

Stanford defeated Cal in the first women's intercollegiate game ever played, even thought the game was invented in the East. The game was played in a gym on Page street in San Francisco in 1896. Mrs Hearst donated the Hearst Gymnasium, which initially had a gym building and a basketball court, ball fields, and tennis courts outside. It burned down in 1922, and with money from Wm. Randolph Hearst, was rebuilt with swimming pools as well. In the 1960s, women's basketball and volleyball games were played in the building with the basketball court boundaries only 4 feet from the walls.

---

WADR SFCB, your latest citation was the 1960's. The 60's were a long time ago. I should know. I was born in '61.

Kudos to Mrs. Hearst. The movement she began 123 years ago has brought us here. We are in the a Golden Era of women's sports. The future looks even brighter.

My high school had a Girls' Gym and a Boys' Gym (as it had when my mother attended, 20 years prior). That changed in the 80's after Title IX. They are now the South and North gyms. There will be no going back to separate, unequal facilities.

---

My post was simply to answer sousefamily, as there are two gymnasiums on campus, Haas and Hearst, and it has been that way for a long time, although one is now called an "Arena".

As I said, I'm not talking about going back. I'm talking about going forward with separate equal, not unequal facilities. Dare I use the word "progressive"? The only unequal aspect would be the size of the crowd that could be accommodated. I would suggest that the women's arena could be designed so that it could be easily expanded to accommodate larger crowds, if the demand was there, without a cost like was incurred by expanding Harmon into the present Haas. The building had to be almost deconstructed to expand it.
Haas is not big enough to accommodate two programs, and the facility does not have hoops on the sides to facilitate practices. I also don't like the aspect that Title IX like some or many well-meaning liberal programs, have a sort of "get even" or aspect to them, in this case for women using hours in the facility which were previously available for the men's team and men's sports and physical education classes. It is the "get even" aspect that dooms many well-meaning programs to creating resentment, which makes it harder for many to accept the changes that are for the benefit of all.

UrsaMajor said:

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SFCityBear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Bearprof said:

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These comments about not having facilities on campus are absurd. They have been practicing in the upstairs gym (gold gym) several mornings when I have been there, including yesterday. Doors closed with a sign, but I peeked in. I guess they may practice on the Haas floor on other occasions.

---

While I agree that the facilities issue is blown out of proportion (other than negative recruiting, which is valid IMHO), I have two points/questions . . .

1. Closing the Gold gym and putting a sign on the door, seems to be a much different paradigm than what I've heard described in the past, where that was not an option for the players or the team. I'm curious if policies have changed in that regard.

2. I've also heard that players want 24/7 access to a closed off facility to work on their shooting/drills on their own (or with team/mates). I'd love that too, but never thought it was worth the cost for a middle-aged grumpkin, like myself. I guess, if anyone deserves it, the players do. Also curious as to what shooting options players have in the campus neighborhood compared to other schools.

---

I will probably draw ire from some of you, but if we are going to tear down a historical landmark like Edwards Track and Field Stadium and replace it with classrooms, offices or living space, why can't we find room for a new Women's Gym or Arena, with facilities for both women's basketball and women's gymnastics, and give Haas back to men's basketball and men's gymnastics?

Haas, or any full court gym, also can have baskets on the sides, where players can shoot around or work with assistant coaches, alone or in small groups. Back in the day at Harmon, the Intramural league could have two or three full court games going at the same time between the baskets on opposite sides, albeit with a shorter full court length. Lunch time was great, where one could see or participate in several different pickup games, or just practice shooting. I guess I was lucky, as we had the same set-up in my high school, plus a few outdoor hoops in the schoolyard as well. Junior High (Middle School) was the same set-up.

I have a hard time grasping what it might be like to be in college at the greatest public university, and not have plenty of places on or near campus to practice or work on shooting, for members of the team or for the rest of the studentbody. Developing the body along with the mind was always the goal of education, but somewhere along the way priorities changed.

---

The basketball teams would like a practice facility built adjacent to Haas; however, this would be prohibitively expensive, as it would mean moving the utilities plant. The administration (assuming the funding comes through) has proposed a portion of the Edwards Field footprint, which is eminently sensible. As for a women's arena with Haas re-dedicated for men, that would be a non-starter, because an actual arena with seating, locker rooms, area for concessions, etc. would be way more expensive.

---

If the Edwards plan does not work out, what about Hearst Hall? The University will have to do something about Hearst Hall, as it is falling apart. I understand the University is having trouble finding funding for repairs and upgrading it. I know it is a landmark of historical significance, but I think if it is overly expensive to fix, then either build a state of the art women's arena and sports center there, or just rebuild the gymnasium building into a practice center for both mens's and women's teams, while retaining as much of the outdoor courts, pools and fields as possible. Just a thought.

SFCityBear - As always, I appreciate the historical perspective. Didn't know that about Hearst

Geez, has anyone any information on how workouts are going?

dear sfcb: I thought you went to St. Agnes.

SFCityBear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Bearprof said:

---

These comments about not having facilities on campus are absurd. They have been practicing in the upstairs gym (gold gym) several mornings when I have been there, including yesterday. Doors closed with a sign, but I peeked in. I guess they may practice on the Haas floor on other occasions.

---

While I agree that the facilities issue is blown out of proportion (other than negative recruiting, which is valid IMHO), I have two points/questions . . .

1. Closing the Gold gym and putting a sign on the door, seems to be a much different paradigm than what I've heard described in the past, where that was not an option for the players or the team. I'm curious if policies have changed in that regard.

2. I've also heard that players want 24/7 access to a closed off facility to work on their shooting/drills on their own (or with team/mates). I'd love that too, but never thought it was worth the cost for a middle-aged grumpkin, like myself. I guess, if anyone deserves it, the players do. Also curious as to what shooting options players have in the campus neighborhood compared to other schools.

---

I will probably draw ire from some of you, but if we are going to tear down a historical landmark like Edwards Track and Field Stadium and replace it with classrooms, offices or living space, why can't we find room for a new Women's Gym or Arena, with facilities for both women's basketball and women's gymnastics, and give Haas back to men's basketball and men's gymnastics?

Haas, or any full court gym, also can have baskets on the sides, where players can shoot around or work with assistant coaches, alone or in small groups. Back in the day at Harmon, the Intramural league could have two or three full court games going at the same time between the baskets on opposite sides, albeit with a shorter full court length. Lunch time was great, where one could see or participate in several different pickup games, or just practice shooting. I guess I was lucky, as we had the same set-up in my high school, plus a few outdoor hoops in the schoolyard as well. Junior High (Middle School) was the same set-up.

I have a hard time grasping what it might be like to be in college at the greatest public university, and not have plenty of places on or near campus to practice or work on shooting, for members of the team or for the rest of the studentbody. Developing the body along with the mind was always the goal of education, but somewhere along the way priorities changed.

---

The basketball teams would like a practice facility built adjacent to Haas; however, this would be prohibitively expensive, as it would mean moving the utilities plant. The administration (assuming the funding comes through) has proposed a portion of the Edwards Field footprint, which is eminently sensible. As for a women's arena with Haas re-dedicated for men, that would be a non-starter, because an actual arena with seating, locker rooms, area for concessions, etc. would be way more expensive.

---

If the Edwards plan does not work out, what about Hearst Hall? The University will have to do something about Hearst Hall, as it is falling apart. I understand the University is having trouble finding funding for repairs and upgrading it. I know it is a landmark of historical significance, but I think if it is overly expensive to fix, then either build a state of the art women's arena and sports center there, or just rebuild the gymnasium building into a practice center for both mens's and women's teams, while retaining as much of the outdoor courts, pools and fields as possible. Just a thought.

---

That's an interesting suggestion. I don't know what the plans are for Hearst, nor do I know what would be involved in renovating it as a practice facility, but if Plan A fails, it would seem to be worth considering Hearst as Plan B.

TheSouseFamily said:

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SFCityBear - As always, I appreciate the historical perspective. Didn't know that about Hearst

---

SouseFamily,

Thanks, but I didn't know much about Hearst either. I know I'm probably not making an argument which will become popular, but I did want to sound like I knew something about Hearst so I read up on it. Hearst was known to be crumbling and having trouble finding funding, according to an article in the Chronicle in 2015. In 2018, one of the pools was closed for a semester, due to a crumbling column on the building. I got the description of what it was like to play basketball there in the 1960s from an article interviewing Joan Parker, who was a terrific tennis player for Cal, played on the Cal basketball and volleyball teams, was an assistant AD at Cal and also Executive Director of Bear Backers for 10 years.

In any case, any project to restore or replace Hearst Gymnasium may very likely run into trouble with Native American activists. Apparently in the 1960's, 10,000 Indian remains were dug up by UC archaelogists, and then stored in boxes under one of the Hearst pools, which is offensive to some Native Americans according an article in "Indian country Today"

helltopay1 said:

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dear sfcb: I thought you went to St. Agnes.

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dear htp1,

Nope. Sorry to have misled you. I attended Grattan Grammar School in the Upper Haight for 7 years. We had a team for the last 3 years if you could call it that, as we only played one or two games a year, against Dudley Stone, the neighborhood rival school. They had Steve Gray, who later was All-City for Washington and League MVP at St Marys, and we had John Murio, who played five sports, and later was Small College All-American in football at Whitworth, and played in the NFL for 5 years. The rest of us mostly stood around and watched. Went to Roosevelt Junior High for 8th grade, and played for Bill Bussenius, former USF head coach and NCAA Final Game referee. Then went to Lowell, played 2 years for Bob Anino, (who made Wyking look like Pete Newell), and 2 years for Ben Neff, nirvana for a basketball masochist.

Some of my Lowell teammates recruited me to play for the St Agnes Youth Center in the CYO. I think it was a summer league. Those guys were All-City, and I think they recruited me for rebounding. That was where I learned to play one-on-one, because they never gave me the ball. When I got it, I still passed to them, but sometimes I kept it myself to take a shot, just to be fair. We played St Patricks and Mission Dolores and several others. I don't think we ever played St Monica's, because I would remember getting squashed by Freddie LaCour.