https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2020/conference/
2019-2020
84.14 (1) Big 12
82.95 (2) ACC
82.50 (3) SEC
82.09 (4) Pac-12
81.85 (5) Big East
80.19 (6) Big 10

2018-19
78.10 (7) Pac-12

Last year the Pac-12 was in the mid-major range. Now we're back in the P6 range. Non-conference wins essentially determine the average for a conference, then in-conference games move conference teams up or down relative to each other.

2019-20
4. Utah
8. Arizona
17. Washington
20. Oregon
33. Colorado
39. USC
81. Stanford
89. UCLA
91. California
101. Washington St.
106. Arizona St.
150. Oregon St.

If the conference stays strong in the offseason, then we could have 6 or more teams in the tournament. Last year we got 2 1/2, with ASU in a play-in game.

2018-19
27. Oregon
45. Washington
51. Arizona State
64. Colorado
73. Arizona
78. UCLA
83. Southern California
89. Oregon State
92. Utah
113. Stanford
197. Washington State
214. California
_____________________________

Moving from 214 to 91 in one year without a huge gain in talent says something about how the coaches are perceived.

stu said:

---

Moving from 214 to 91 in one year without a huge gain in talent says something about how the coaches are perceived.

---

Sagarin is a computer program. It is based on wins/loses and scores using transitivity. We are 1-0. The early season rankings are biased as the usually include some of the prior year data, the unbiased rankings will come later.

calumnus said:

---

stu said:

---

Moving from 214 to 91 in one year without a huge gain in talent says something about how the coaches are perceived.

---

Sagarin is a computer program. It is based on wins/loses and scores using transitivity. We are 1-0. The early season rankings are biased as the usually include some of the prior year data, the unbiased rankings will come later.

---

Yes, it incorporates Empirical Bayesian methodology. In the past that has been clearly stated. IMO, Jeff Sagarin explains his methodology much more than most.

R90 said:

---

https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sagarin/2020/conference/
2019-2020
84.14 (1) Big 12
82.95 (2) ACC
82.50 (3) SEC
82.09 (4) Pac-12
81.85 (5) Big East
80.19 (6) Big 10

---

No Pac-12 teams played yesterday, but the conference moved up anyway, showing that this season's games are still a small part of the formula, relative to last season's.

Today's rankings:

83.21 (1) Big 12
82.70 (2) ACC
82.65 (3) Pac-12
81.98 (4) SEC
81.46 (5) Big East
79.08 (6) Big 10

Cal moved up from 91 to 83.

7 games involve Pac-12 teams tonight.

too early for sagarin info

calgo430 said:

---

too early for sagarin info

---

Actually it isn't.

You may not agree with his methodology, but it is what it is.

bearup said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

too early for sagarin info

---

Actually it isn't.

You may not agree with his methodology, but it is what it is.

---

It may be what it is, but what it is is meaningless this early into the season.

Civil Bear said:

---

bearup said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

too early for sagarin info

---

Actually it isn't.

You may not agree with his methodology, but it is what it is.

---

It may be what it is, but what it is is meaningless this early into the season.

---

The Coaches Poll is a non-random-sample survey of a few hundred guys.
.....in which Jim-Bob might put Ray-Boy's team in his top 10 because they're drinking buddies and vice versa. What happens if Jolene comes between them?

(If you find my use of southern stereotypes offensive, using Italian names and mafia references would work really well also)


Sagarin, Kenpom, Torvik, polls etc. are meaningful now because:

* They each provide a frame of reference for chit-chat
* We all can look longingly at them wishing and hoping that CAL will appear in the top 50 or so.

bearup said:

---

Sagarin, Kenpom, Torvik, polls etc. are meaningful now because:

* They each provide a frame of reference for chit-chat
* We all can look longingly at them wishing and hoping that CAL will appear in the top 50 or so.

---

They have some significance now. They'll be a lot more significant later, with more data. Today's 7 games featuring Pac-12 teams will have an impact.

The big point I'm making is that our conference's performance now determines how many teams will likely get into the tournament at the end of the season. We're off to a good start, and the impact can be seen in the Sagarin ratings. We'll see who drops the ball tonight. Hopefully not us.

R90 said:

---

bearup said:

---

Sagarin, Kenpom, Torvik, polls etc. are meaningful now because:

* They each provide a frame of reference for chit-chat
* We all can look longingly at them wishing and hoping that CAL will appear in the top 50 or so.

---

They have some significance now. They'll be a lot more significant later, with more data. Today's 7 games featuring Pac-12 teams will have an impact.

The big point I'm making is that our conference's performance now determines how many teams will likely get into the tournament at the end of the season. We're off to a good start, and the impact can be seen in the Sagarin ratings. We'll see who drops the ball tonight. Hopefully not us.

---

I know that. I wasn't at all clear. Sorry

BTW: on the Premium Board staff writer Nathan Allen bases his previews on KenPom metrics

Thank you for the time and effort.

Civil Bear said:

---

bearup said:

---

calgo430 said:

---

too early for sagarin info

---

Actually it isn't.

You may not agree with his methodology, but it is what it is.

---

It may be what it is, but what it is is meaningless this early into the season.

---

Not entirely meaningless. It's clear even this early on the Pac 12 is a lot stronger (at least at this early point) than last season, when the conference had pretty much played itself out of relevance halfway through the OOC schedule. Heck, Cal had a lock on the 200+ spot after two games IIRC.