don't remember which thread we were talking about whether Paris's high dribble was a carry (it wasn't), but how about this...

Not sure it's a carry, but assuming no major, career damaging injury, am sure Morant is going to be almost unguardable in his many NBA prime years of which this is the start.

I dunno. Does a bear live in the woods?

HoopDreams said:

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don't remember which thread we were talking about whether Paris's high dribble was a carry (it wasn't), but how about this...

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That is a carry. Can you imagine what Maravich would have done with todays rules?

I think I noticed for the first time in the $C game that Joel Brown brazenly palms the ball.

GUNNERMATE said:

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HoopDreams said:

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don't remember which thread we were talking about whether Paris's high dribble was a carry (it wasn't), but how about this...

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That is a carry. Can you imagine what Maravich would have done with todays rules?

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Maravich? Heck, anyone who played before today's rules would have been a better player in his day.
As Dr. J said, "Today's players are allowed to do some things that we weren't allowed to do."

a ton of players carry the ball, but it's so rarely called in college that I'm surprised when it is.

although I think the clip above is technically a carry, I'm not sure I've ever seen a whistle blown for a carry in the nba.

HoopDreams said:

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a ton of players carry the ball, but it's so rarely called in college that I'm surprised when it is.

although I think the clip above is technically a carry, I'm not sure I've ever seen a whistle blown for a carry in the nba.

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When I was in high school, in our games, it was called 2 or 3 times a game. Traveling was called a little more often, as I remember. Most players rarely did either one. First time I noticed a player getting away with carrying a ball in the NBA was Magic Johnson. Many players of his day, 6-9 and taller, had difficulty dribbling and especially changing hands on the dribble. I went to the public library, where they had a copy of the NBA rule book. I could find no rule at that time in the NBA against carrying the ball, or palming. I don't know if there is a rule against palming now.

HoopDreams said:

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don't remember which thread we were talking about whether Paris's high dribble was a carry (it wasn't), but how about this...

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I think it's a carry at the point where he reaches back with the ball up high behind him, before the inside out move. I don't think the inside out part is a carry.

bluesaxe said:

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HoopDreams said:

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don't remember which thread we were talking about whether Paris's high dribble was a carry (it wasn't), but how about this...

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I think it's a carry at the point where he reaches back with the ball up high behind him, before the inside out move. I don't think the inside out part is a carry.

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Exactly right. The carry occurs when he has the ball behind him. Once the hand gets below the horizontal equator of the ball, it is a carry. During the inside out part, he is placing his hand under the ball while ending his dribble and is part of preparing to shoot his shot, which was an underhanded shot.

Agree with both of you

SFCityBear said:

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bluesaxe said:

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HoopDreams said:

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don't remember which thread we were talking about whether Paris's high dribble was a carry (it wasn't), but how about this...

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I think it's a carry at the point where he reaches back with the ball up high behind him, before the inside out move. I don't think the inside out part is a carry.

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Exactly right. The carry occurs when he has the ball behind him. Once the hand gets below the horizontal equator of the ball, it is a carry. During the inside out part, he is placing his hand under the ball while ending his dribble and is part of preparing to shoot his shot, which was an underhanded shot.

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SFCityBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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a ton of players carry the ball, but it's so rarely called in college that I'm surprised when it is.

although I think the clip above is technically a carry, I'm not sure I've ever seen a whistle blown for a carry in the nba.

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When I was in high school, in our games, it was called 2 or 3 times a game. Traveling was called a little more often, as I remember. Most players rarely did either one. First time I noticed a player getting away with carrying a ball in the NBA was Magic Johnson. Many players of his day, 6-9 and taller, had difficulty dribbling and especially changing hands on the dribble. I went to the public library, where they had a copy of the NBA rule book. I could find no rule at that time in the NBA against carrying the ball, or palming. I don't know if there is a rule against palming now.

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Here's the NBA rule, and it's why I don't think the Jah Morant video is a carry:

Quote:

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[ol]

A player who is dribbling may not put any part of his hand under the ball and (1) carry it from one point to another or (2) bring it to a pause and then continue to dribble again.

[/ol]

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Rule 10(II)(d).

https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/

His hand is not "under" the ball, so there's no "carry."

The NCAA rule is a little more complicated, but I think you could still make the case Morant's dribble was legal.

Quote:

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Section 13. Dribble

Art. 1. A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats, pushes or taps the ball to the playing court once or several times.

Art. 4. The dribble ends when: a. The dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands;

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You could argue that the ball "comes to a rest" in Morant's hand. But in conjunction with Article 1, which allows a "push" of the ball, I don't think Article 4 is meant to be so strict regarding "come to rest."

If you believe the Mean Value Theorem then the ball must come to rest in the vertical direction, however briefly, at the top and bottom of each bounce.