To SFCB: You went to Dudley Stone. I remember two things about Dudley Stone.
1) our lightweight team ( grant School) lost to Dudley Stone
2) The outdoor court at Dudley was slightly uphill & had several cracks--so you spent the entire game running uphill & downhill while trying to avoid the cracks. Let';s have a rematch--

helltopay1 said:

---

To SFCB: You went to Dudley Stone. I remember two things about Dudley Stone.
1) our lightweight team ( grant School) lost to Dudley Stone
2) The outdoor court at Dudley was slightly uphill & had several cracks--so you spent the entire game running uphill & downhill while trying to avoid the cracks. Let';s have a rematch--

---

Helltopay1 - You must be bored to challenge me. It takes me an hour to get out of bed in the morning.

I never went to Dudley Stone. Except once a week for a wood shop class. I went to Grattan. I only knew one kid who went to Dudley Stone, Steve Gray. He was about 6-2 or 6-3 in those days, and he grew to 6-6 by the time he played for St Marys College, and was WAC player of the year. We did think about challenging them to a game, but I think we thought it wasn't a good idea, and the game never happened. We never played Grant either. I never even knew there was a Grant School, until I became a freshman at Lowell, and there were several of my classmates who had come from Grant. By the way, Dudley Stone is no more. In 1980, it was renamed William R. De Avila School, after a former Principal, and now it is called the "Chinese Immersion School at De Avila" I haven't been there in many years, but I bet there is no basketball court, or if there is no one will be playing basketball on it. They will all be on their phones.

Worst floors I ever played on:

1. San Francisco Boys' Club Branch, originally located in Hamilton Methodist Church on Waller St. The walls had rusty nails sticking out, and you had to be careful not to get near a wall.

2. Lowell High Gym. Hayes St. The floor was so old, worn out and rough, if you hit the floor, you'd likely get the worst floor burn you ever had. Not much space between the walls and the court, maybe 2 feet max.

3. St Agnes youth Center, Page St. The walls were about a foot from the sideline. They had bench seats there, and anyone who sat on the benches had their feet inside the court. So you had to stay away from the sideline to avoid stepping on a foot, or getting tripped by a supporter of the visiting team. About 3 feet behind the far basket, was the auditorium's raised stage, so for layups you had to take them at a wide angle, so you wouldn't crash into the stage.

4. Richmond Boys' Club. The floor was made of linoleum. The court was so short, that once you dribbled past the free throw line, you were deemed as having crossed the mid court line and were now in the front court. The refs never bothered starting a 10 second clock with such a short distance.

In case the Mods think this is off topic, I will fix it now:

Go Bears!

bearister said:

---

"It takes me an hour to get out of bed in the morning."

What's her name, SFCB?

---

That's the thing about it. That's just from waking up stiff as a board. Not only can I not remember her name, I'm not even sure she was here at all.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2019/07/08/sofia-vergara-shows-off-bikini-body-ahead-her-47th-birthday/1680015001/

Maybe

SFCB: Funny you should mention Grattan. We played them the same year we played Dudley Stone. Their best player was Bill Phengston. He was three years older than you. He went to Poly. He scored 18 points that day.

said:

---

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2019/07/08/sofia-vergara-shows-off-bikini-body-ahead-her-47th-birthday/1680015001/

Maybe

---

I would remember her if she'd been here. I guess the virus panic is over in Italy, if this chick is hitting the Italian beaches. So much for sheltering in place.


Well, my telephone rang it would not stop
It's President Kennedy callin' me up
He said, "My friend, Bob, what do we need to make the country grow"?
I said, "My friend, John, "Brigitte Bardot
Anita Ekberg
Sophia Loren"
Country'll grow

Bob Dylan - I Shall Be Free, 1963 or thereabouts

bearister said:

---

"It takes me an hour to get out of bed in the morning."

What's her name, SFCB?

---

Actually, the problem is a back that I injured in a weightlifting class at Harmon, trying to bulk up and have a better chance of making the Cal basketball team. It was the military press that did it. I went up to Cowell Hospital to get therapy from a young Swedish nurse who put heat on it, and then oil, with a wonderful massage. The pain went away after a couple weeks, but I kept going up to Cowell to get those massages every week for the rest of the semester. A few months ago, the back problem returned. A buddy of mine gave me a "memory foam" mattress, so I got rid of my old mattress. This memory foam mattress is the worst mattress I ever owned. And the imitation Governator and the Stalinist we have for a Mayor have shut down all the mattress stores, so I can't go in and try out any mattresses to buy. The moral: Don't lift more weight than you are capable of lifting, and never throw out your old mattress without giving the new one a good trial run.

helltopay1 said:

---

SFCB: Funny you should mention Grattan. We played them the same year we played Dudley Stone. Their best player was Bill Phengston. He was three years older than you. He went to Poly. He scored 18 points that day.

---

I went to Grattan for 7 years, so I should know him, but don't. I do vaguely remember the name though. When I was 3, I spent almost a whole year in bed with TB. My mother taught me to read, so by the time I was ready to begin kindergarten, I was already reading at about a 6th grade level, and so the school put me into first grade. I was younger than all my classmates, so maybe Phengston was 4 years older than me, and had graduated by the time I started playing basketball, which was in the 5th grade.

SFCB, your story reminds me of my grandparents. All 4 immigrated to America from Ireland as teenagers shortly after the turn of the century. None had education past the 8th grade and all were taught by nuns. They could could read and write better than most college grads today and all had intellectual curiosity. There is a lesson to be learned about educational systems and philosophies in there somewhere.*

*One of my sister in laws teaches 1st grade in a private school. She says the kids spend half the day going to the bathroom (and you have to let them go under threat of litigation) and their parents are real pieces of work.

SFCityBear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

To SFCB: You went to Dudley Stone. I remember two things about Dudley Stone.
1) our lightweight team ( grant School) lost to Dudley Stone
2) The outdoor court at Dudley was slightly uphill & had several cracks--so you spent the entire game running uphill & downhill while trying to avoid the cracks. Let';s have a rematch--

---

Helltopay1 - You must be bored to challenge me. It takes me an hour to get out of bed in the morning.

I never went to Dudley Stone. Except once a week for a wood shop class. I went to Grattan. I only knew one kid who went to Dudley Stone, Steve Gray. He was about 6-2 or 6-3 in those days, and he grew to 6-6 by the time he played for St Marys College, and was WAC player of the year. We did think about challenging them to a game, but I think we thought it wasn't a good idea, and the game never happened. We never played Grant either. I never even knew there was a Grant School, until I became a freshman at Lowell, and there were several of my classmates who had come from Grant. By the way, Dudley Stone is no more. In 1980, it was renamed William R. De Avila School, after a former Principal, and now it is called the "Chinese Immersion School at De Avila" I haven't been there in many years, but I bet there is no basketball court, or if there is no one will be playing basketball on it. They will all be on their phones.

Worst floors I ever played on:

1. San Francisco Boys' Club Branch, originally located in Hamilton Methodist Church on Waller St. The walls had rusty nails sticking out, and you had to be careful not to get near a wall.

2. Lowell High Gym. Hayes St. The floor was so old, worn out and rough, if you hit the floor, you'd likely get the worst floor burn you ever had. Not much space between the walls and the court, maybe 2 feet max.

3. St Agnes youth Center, Page St. The walls were about a foot from the sideline. They had bench seats there, and anyone who sat on the benches had their feet inside the court. So you had to stay away from the sideline to avoid stepping on a foot, or getting tripped by a supporter of the visiting team. About 3 feet behind the far basket, was the auditorium's raised stage, so for layups you had to take them at a wide angle, so you wouldn't crash into the stage.

4. Richmond Boys' Club. The floor was made of linoleum. The court was so short, that once you dribbled past the free throw line, you were deemed as having crossed the mid court line and were now in the front court. The refs never bothered starting a 10 second clock with such a short distance.

In case the Mods think this is off topic, I will fix it now:

Go Bears!

---

I both went to Grant and knew Steve Grey. The 49ers used to have their training camp at Saint Mary's and Steve drove a few of us Washington High students (his high school) over to Moraga to watch a scrimmage in a new Chevy that he some how started driving right after he signed with Saint Mary's (wink - wink). BTW, Grant didn't have any teams when I was there. It was a grammar school that went through the eighth grade, and was a feeder school for Lowell.

Go Bears!

My dad graduated SMC in '42 and was very devoted to The College, as he called it. As a kid he took me to Gaels' games, so I saw Steve Grey play. My dad went to USF Law School so he also took me to USF games (Joe Ellis/Ollie Johnson era). He took me to St. Mary's vs Santa Clara games at the Richmond Auditorium during the Bronco era of Dennis Awtrey and Bud Ogden.

I remember the Gaels having a game at the Oakland Arena in '69 or '70 when the Black Student Union at SMC was on strike so the team only fielded 5 or 6 players. My memory is that Ron Montoya was the last man standing for the Gaels at the end of the game after all his teammates had fouled out and that the refs let him inbound the ball and play 1 vs 5 (however I think that is supposed to be a forfeit situation but I swear I remember it).

IssyBear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

To SFCB: You went to Dudley Stone. I remember two things about Dudley Stone.
1) our lightweight team ( grant School) lost to Dudley Stone
2) The outdoor court at Dudley was slightly uphill & had several cracks--so you spent the entire game running uphill & downhill while trying to avoid the cracks. Let';s have a rematch--

---

Helltopay1 - You must be bored to challenge me. It takes me an hour to get out of bed in the morning.

I never went to Dudley Stone. Except once a week for a wood shop class. I went to Grattan. I only knew one kid who went to Dudley Stone, Steve Gray. He was about 6-2 or 6-3 in those days, and he grew to 6-6 by the time he played for St Marys College, and was WAC player of the year. We did think about challenging them to a game, but I think we thought it wasn't a good idea, and the game never happened. We never played Grant either. I never even knew there was a Grant School, until I became a freshman at Lowell, and there were several of my classmates who had come from Grant. By the way, Dudley Stone is no more. In 1980, it was renamed William R. De Avila School, after a former Principal, and now it is called the "Chinese Immersion School at De Avila" I haven't been there in many years, but I bet there is no basketball court, or if there is no one will be playing basketball on it. They will all be on their phones.

Worst floors I ever played on:

1. San Francisco Boys' Club Branch, originally located in Hamilton Methodist Church on Waller St. The walls had rusty nails sticking out, and you had to be careful not to get near a wall.

2. Lowell High Gym. Hayes St. The floor was so old, worn out and rough, if you hit the floor, you'd likely get the worst floor burn you ever had. Not much space between the walls and the court, maybe 2 feet max.

3. St Agnes youth Center, Page St. The walls were about a foot from the sideline. They had bench seats there, and anyone who sat on the benches had their feet inside the court. So you had to stay away from the sideline to avoid stepping on a foot, or getting tripped by a supporter of the visiting team. About 3 feet behind the far basket, was the auditorium's raised stage, so for layups you had to take them at a wide angle, so you wouldn't crash into the stage.

4. Richmond Boys' Club. The floor was made of linoleum. The court was so short, that once you dribbled past the free throw line, you were deemed as having crossed the mid court line and were now in the front court. The refs never bothered starting a 10 second clock with such a short distance.

In case the Mods think this is off topic, I will fix it now:

Go Bears!

---

I both went to Grant and knew Steve Grey. The 49ers used to have their training camp at Saint Mary's and Steve drove a few of us Washington High students (his high school) over to Moraga to watch a scrimmage in a new Chevy that he some how started driving right after he signed with Saint Mary's (wink - wink). BTW, Grant didn't have any teams when I was there. It was a grammar school that went through the eighth grade, and was a feeder school for Lowell.

Go Bears!

---

I used to think Grant was a private school, because most of the kids who went from Grant to Lowell that I knew were rich.

I knew Steve Gray pretty well, but didn't like him much. I used to kill him in games of horse at St Agnes, because he couldn't make shots outside 12 feet, and I shot all my shots from 20-30 feet. I took all his money, except he would never pay up, ever. He said he'd have the money for me next time he saw me. He used to ask if he could borrow my bike so he could ride home, which was about 4-5 blocks away, and then not bring it back for several hours. I let him have his way, as he was way bigger than me. Tom Meschery got the Warriors to sign him, but he was an in-between player at 6-6 or so. Too short to play inside in the NBA, and not a good enough shot outside or good enough ball handler to play guard in the NBA.

Did you know John Murio at Washington? He played football, basketball, and swam for Washington. He was leading the AAA in rushing, and blew out a knee halfway through the season. He made small college AA at Whitworth up the state of Washington, and then played DB in the NFL for the Colts, Packers and Vikings, I think. He was my best friend growing up at Grattan, and we got into a lot of trouble together. He got along well with Steve Gray, maybe because they were the two best athletes in the Haight Ashbury at the time. John's father, John Sr., was a national class tennis player who came from Hawaii. He won almost every tournament he entered, the Pacific Coast and the Canadian championships. The USLTA wouldn't let him play in the US Open at Forest Hills, because they thought he was a Negro, when he was actually a Polynesian. He would have won the tournament, I believe. He was that good, according to my dad who played on the Cal tennis team. He owned a bar called Murio's Trophy Room on Haight Street, which is still there. Maybe the trophies are still there. John jr and his brother and sister grew up in a little apartment above the bar. John coached high school championship football teams at Mission Viejo, and then moved back to Washington where he coached and taught math in college there.

Did you know Lorrel Anderson and Art Yoshihara at Washington? Great light weight team players. Lorrel played for SF State. Or Norman Owyoung? He came from Chinatown, and made All-City at Washington. Quickest player I ever played against. Left me in the dust, every time. Only 5'-4" tall. His girlfriend got pregnant, so Norman had to go to work and not go to college. A few years later, Tom Meschery got him a tryout with the Warriors. He was tearing up the scrimmages, but the owner sent him a letter telling him the team and the NBA wasn't ready for a player that short. Norman was really ticked off, and so were his fans. He played in the Asian leagues until he was 74.

SFCityBear said:

---

IssyBear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

helltopay1 said:

---

To SFCB: You went to Dudley Stone. I remember two things about Dudley Stone.
1) our lightweight team ( grant School) lost to Dudley Stone
2) The outdoor court at Dudley was slightly uphill & had several cracks--so you spent the entire game running uphill & downhill while trying to avoid the cracks. Let';s have a rematch--

---

Helltopay1 - You must be bored to challenge me. It takes me an hour to get out of bed in the morning.

I never went to Dudley Stone. Except once a week for a wood shop class. I went to Grattan. I only knew one kid who went to Dudley Stone, Steve Gray. He was about 6-2 or 6-3 in those days, and he grew to 6-6 by the time he played for St Marys College, and was WAC player of the year. We did think about challenging them to a game, but I think we thought it wasn't a good idea, and the game never happened. We never played Grant either. I never even knew there was a Grant School, until I became a freshman at Lowell, and there were several of my classmates who had come from Grant. By the way, Dudley Stone is no more. In 1980, it was renamed William R. De Avila School, after a former Principal, and now it is called the "Chinese Immersion School at De Avila" I haven't been there in many years, but I bet there is no basketball court, or if there is no one will be playing basketball on it. They will all be on their phones.

Worst floors I ever played on:

1. San Francisco Boys' Club Branch, originally located in Hamilton Methodist Church on Waller St. The walls had rusty nails sticking out, and you had to be careful not to get near a wall.

2. Lowell High Gym. Hayes St. The floor was so old, worn out and rough, if you hit the floor, you'd likely get the worst floor burn you ever had. Not much space between the walls and the court, maybe 2 feet max.

3. St Agnes youth Center, Page St. The walls were about a foot from the sideline. They had bench seats there, and anyone who sat on the benches had their feet inside the court. So you had to stay away from the sideline to avoid stepping on a foot, or getting tripped by a supporter of the visiting team. About 3 feet behind the far basket, was the auditorium's raised stage, so for layups you had to take them at a wide angle, so you wouldn't crash into the stage.

4. Richmond Boys' Club. The floor was made of linoleum. The court was so short, that once you dribbled past the free throw line, you were deemed as having crossed the mid court line and were now in the front court. The refs never bothered starting a 10 second clock with such a short distance.

In case the Mods think this is off topic, I will fix it now:

Go Bears!

---

I both went to Grant and knew Steve Grey. The 49ers used to have their training camp at Saint Mary's and Steve drove a few of us Washington High students (his high school) over to Moraga to watch a scrimmage in a new Chevy that he some how started driving right after he signed with Saint Mary's (wink - wink). BTW, Grant didn't have any teams when I was there. It was a grammar school that went through the eighth grade, and was a feeder school for Lowell.

Go Bears!

---

I used to think Grant was a private school, because most of the kids who went from Grant to Lowell that I knew were rich.

I knew Steve Gray pretty well, but didn't like him much. I used to kill him in games of horse at St Agnes, because he couldn't make shots outside 12 feet, and I shot all my shots from 20-30 feet. I took all his money, except he would never pay up, ever. He said he'd have the money for me next time he saw me. He used to ask if he could borrow my bike so he could ride home, which was about 4-5 blocks away, and then not bring it back for several hours. I let him have his way, as he was way bigger than me. Tom Meschery got the Warriors to sign him, but he was an in-between player at 6-6 or so. Too short to play inside in the NBA, and not a good enough shot outside or good enough ball handler to play guard in the NBA.

Did you know John Murio at Washington? He played football, basketball, and swam for Washington. He was leading the AAA in rushing, and blew out a knee halfway through the season. He made small college AA at Whitworth up the state of Washington, and then played DB in the NFL for the Colts, Packers and Vikings, I think. He was my best friend growing up at Grattan, and we got into a lot of trouble together. He got along well with Steve Gray, maybe because they were the two best athletes in the Haight Ashbury at the time. John's father, John Sr., was a national class tennis player who came from Hawaii. He won almost every tournament he entered, the Pacific Coast and the Canadian championships. The USLTA wouldn't let him play in the US Open at Forest Hills, because they thought he was a Negro, when he was actually a Polynesian. He would have won the tournament, I believe. He was that good, according to my dad who played on the Cal tennis team. He owned a bar called Murio's Trophy Room on Haight Street, which is still there. Maybe the trophies are still there. John jr and his brother and sister grew up in a little apartment above the bar. John coached high school championship football teams at Mission Viejo, and then moved back to Washington where he coached and taught math in college there.

Did you know Lorrel Anderson and Art Yoshihara at Washington? Great light weight team players. Lorrel played for SF State. Or Norman Owyoung? He came from Chinatown, and made All-City at Washington. Quickest player I ever played against. Left me in the dust, every time. Only 5'-4" tall. His girlfriend got pregnant, so Norman had to go to work and not go to college. A few years later, Tom Meschery got him a tryout with the Warriors. He was tearing up the scrimmages, but the owner sent him a letter telling him the team and the NBA wasn't ready for a player that short. Norman was really ticked off, and so were his fans. He played in the Asian leagues until he was 74.

---

Most of the guys you mentioned were a little older than me, but I did know some of them, although I don't remember Anderson. Frankly, you nailed Steve Grey. That's just how I remember him. Murio was just a great and shifty running back, and I remember his dad's bar next to the Bowling Alley on Haight near the Panhandle. I didn't know he made it to the NFL. I remember Norm Owyoung very well. If I remember correctly, he had a funky jump shot similar to Rusty Critchfield's at Cal. Great to hear he kept playing that long. Mine was the Everett Addams era at Washington, who was also a star at SF State and got a tryout with the Warriors. He lived close to Saint Agnes, so you might have played with him. Good memories.