I was looking at Arizona's recruiting class for this year and was surprised at how Miller was able to pull in six highly rated international players (Canada, Turkey, France, and three from Lithuania). Obviously Arizona has a draw from a basketball standpoint, but I remember how we were recruiting players like Poetl, Sarr, Yurtseven in years past. I know Fox is open to recruiting international players (Lars, Klonaras, etc) but what separates us from finding these other gems and would/should we focus on recruiting more of these players in the future? I look at a program who has thrived with this model, being Gonzaga who has at least a third of their roster with foreign students who they've developed into high round picks (Sabonis, Hachimura, Tillie, Petrusev, Ayayi). We should be able to pitch our university given the diverse student body and draw of the Bay Area demographic.

Chunger89 said:

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I was looking at Arizona's recruiting class for this year and was surprised at how Miller was able to pull in six highly rated international players (Canada, Turkey, France, and three from Lithuania). Obviously Arizona has a draw from a basketball standpoint, but I remember how we were recruiting players like Poetl, Sarr, Yurtseven in years past. I know Fox is open to recruiting international players (Lars, Klonaras, etc) but what separates us from finding these other gems and would/should we focus on recruiting more of these players in the future? I look at a program who has thrived with this model, being Gonzaga who has at least a third of their roster with foreign students who they've developed into high round picks (Sabonis, Hachimura, Tillie, Petrusev, Ayayi). We should be able to pitch our university given the diverse student body and draw of the Bay Area demographic.

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As well, our much smaller neighbor St. Mary's has had a continual pipeline, particularly from Australia.

The appeal of schools like St. Mary's, Gonzaga, Arizona, etc. is completely different.

Until we are in the dance consistently, and consistently making it to the second weekend, hard to expect us to be able to attract the NBA level talent.

91Cal said:

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Chunger89 said:

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I was looking at Arizona's recruiting class for this year and was surprised at how Miller was able to pull in six highly rated international players (Canada, Turkey, France, and three from Lithuania). Obviously Arizona has a draw from a basketball standpoint, but I remember how we were recruiting players like Poetl, Sarr, Yurtseven in years past. I know Fox is open to recruiting international players (Lars, Klonaras, etc) but what separates us from finding these other gems and would/should we focus on recruiting more of these players in the future? I look at a program who has thrived with this model, being Gonzaga who has at least a third of their roster with foreign students who they've developed into high round picks (Sabonis, Hachimura, Tillie, Petrusev, Ayayi). We should be able to pitch our university given the diverse student body and draw of the Bay Area demographic.

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As well, our much smaller neighbor St. Mary's has had a continual pipeline, particularly from Australia.

The appeal of schools like St. Mary's, Gonzaga, Arizona, etc. is completely different.

Until we are in the dance consistently, and consistently making it to the second weekend, hard to expect us to be able to attract the NBA level talent.

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I think all that is less a factor for international players. It did not make sense for Fox to recruit internationally at Georgia, he just needed to recruit Georgia. That was where his efforts were best spent. When he was hired at Cal he had a one year gap since being fired at Georgia so he was not then currently recruiting anyone and was coming in late in the recruiting cycle. He did identify international players as a key source of players for Cal, brought in three (essentially). As he develops international connections he will identify top players earlier (what Braun did well) and Cal's international reputation and area will help seal the deal.

we have been successful with Canadian players, and some from europe

but so far, have not signed the top overseas players that AZ and Zags have (or even St Mary's as pointed out above)

so we have some success but aren't yet Euro West

the WBB team have done a solid job with pulling in some Euros

HoopDreams said:

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we have been successful with Canadian players, and some from europe

but so far, have not signed the top overseas players that AZ and Zags have (or even St Mary's as pointed out above)

so we have some success but aren't yet Euro West

the WBB team have done a solid job with pulling in some Euros

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The key is putting a coach in charge of recruiting internationally and giving them budget to make the trips. Here is Miller on the subject:
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2020/5/7/21251439/arizona-basketball-recruiting-2020-international-sean-miller-comments-kriisa-gorener-mathurin-batcho

calumnus said:

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The key is putting a coach in charge of recruiting internationally and giving them budget to make the trips. Here is Miller on the subject:
https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2020/5/7/21251439/arizona-basketball-recruiting-2020-international-sean-miller-comments-kriisa-gorener-mathurin-batcho

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I thought this was an interesting quote ...

when I think of my fav cal players, I think about those who put it all out there ... Jorge was the gold standard, but many other players also fall in that group, including Bradley

"Do they play with great effort, spirit and energy? Those types of players continue to get better. And I think that our McKale crowd and the people who love and invest in our program, you fall in love with them as players because you know they're always giving you their heart and soul. "

calumnus said:

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91Cal said:

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Chunger89 said:

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I was looking at Arizona's recruiting class for this year and was surprised at how Miller was able to pull in six highly rated international players (Canada, Turkey, France, and three from Lithuania). Obviously Arizona has a draw from a basketball standpoint, but I remember how we were recruiting players like Poetl, Sarr, Yurtseven in years past. I know Fox is open to recruiting international players (Lars, Klonaras, etc) but what separates us from finding these other gems and would/should we focus on recruiting more of these players in the future? I look at a program who has thrived with this model, being Gonzaga who has at least a third of their roster with foreign students who they've developed into high round picks (Sabonis, Hachimura, Tillie, Petrusev, Ayayi). We should be able to pitch our university given the diverse student body and draw of the Bay Area demographic.

---

As well, our much smaller neighbor St. Mary's has had a continual pipeline, particularly from Australia.

The appeal of schools like St. Mary's, Gonzaga, Arizona, etc. is completely different.

Until we are in the dance consistently, and consistently making it to the second weekend, hard to expect us to be able to attract the NBA level talent.

---

I think all that is less a factor for international players. It did not make sense for Fox to recruit internationally at Georgia, he just needed to recruit Georgia. That was where his efforts were best spent. When he was hired at Cal he had a one year gap since being fired at Georgia so he was not then currently recruiting anyone and was coming in late in the recruiting cycle. He did identify international players as a key source of players for Cal, brought in three (essentially). As he develops international connections he will identify top players earlier (what Braun did well) and Cal's international reputation and area will help seal the deal.

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Why would it not make sense to recruit internationally at Georgia, especially when competition for Georgia recruits was intense, and Fox, even though the vast majority of players he signed were from Georgia, still he was not landing the best ones, except maybe for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Why not look everywhere you can for recruits? Except for Caldwell-Pope, Fox's best recruit was perhaps Yante Maten, from Michigan, who had an excellent 4-year career at Georgia.

Fox did recruit internationally while at Georgia. His first international recruit was from Montenegro, 6-9 Dusan Djurisic, who played one season of high school ball in Connecticut, and who had a good 4-year career at Georgia, improving each year, to become a starter in his senior year, averaging 11 points and 5 rebbounds. Another of Fox's recruits who had a good career at Georgia was 6-9 Derek Obeide. Obeide was a 3-year starter at Georgia, averaging 9 points and 4-5 rebounds his last year. Fox also signed 6-10 Osahen Iduwe from Nigeria, 6-7 Pape Diatta from Sengal, and 6-4 Dusan Langura from Switzerland, all of whom played fewer minutes with minimal success at Georgia. So he did recruit interantionally, with some success, just not great success getting great players or getting a lot of players from overseas. Personally, I feel we should still be mainly a public school for kids from California, and I like players from overseas, I just don't think we should concentrate heavily on them, like Gonzaga does.

So I think Fox had some experience with signing international players, and probably already had some connections when he arrived at Cal. I also remember reading that one of his Cal assistants had been successful in international recruiting. Kuany, Lars, and Klonaras are perhaps the result of Fox's previous connections. All raw, but there is some potential there, especially with Kuany.

SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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91Cal said:

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Chunger89 said:

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I was looking at Arizona's recruiting class for this year and was surprised at how Miller was able to pull in six highly rated international players (Canada, Turkey, France, and three from Lithuania). Obviously Arizona has a draw from a basketball standpoint, but I remember how we were recruiting players like Poetl, Sarr, Yurtseven in years past. I know Fox is open to recruiting international players (Lars, Klonaras, etc) but what separates us from finding these other gems and would/should we focus on recruiting more of these players in the future? I look at a program who has thrived with this model, being Gonzaga who has at least a third of their roster with foreign students who they've developed into high round picks (Sabonis, Hachimura, Tillie, Petrusev, Ayayi). We should be able to pitch our university given the diverse student body and draw of the Bay Area demographic.

---

As well, our much smaller neighbor St. Mary's has had a continual pipeline, particularly from Australia.

The appeal of schools like St. Mary's, Gonzaga, Arizona, etc. is completely different.

Until we are in the dance consistently, and consistently making it to the second weekend, hard to expect us to be able to attract the NBA level talent.

---

I think all that is less a factor for international players. It did not make sense for Fox to recruit internationally at Georgia, he just needed to recruit Georgia. That was where his efforts were best spent. When he was hired at Cal he had a one year gap since being fired at Georgia so he was not then currently recruiting anyone and was coming in late in the recruiting cycle. He did identify international players as a key source of players for Cal, brought in three (essentially). As he develops international connections he will identify top players earlier (what Braun did well) and Cal's international reputation and area will help seal the deal.

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Why would it not make sense to recruit internationally at Georgia, especially when competition for Georgia recruits was intense, and Fox, even though the vast majority of players he signed were from Georgia, still he was not landing the best ones, except maybe for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Why not look everywhere you can for recruits? Except for Caldwell-Pope, Fox's best recruit was perhaps Yante Maten, from Michigan, who had an excellent 4-year career at Georgia.

Fox did recruit internationally while at Georgia. His first international recruit was from Montenegro, 6-9 Dusan Djurisic, who played one season of high school ball in Connecticut, and who had a good 4-year career at Georgia, improving each year, to become a starter in his senior year, averaging 11 points and 5 rebbounds. Another of Fox's recruits who had a good career at Georgia was 6-9 Derek Obeide. Obeide was a 3-year starter at Georgia, averaging 9 points and 4-5 rebounds his last year. Fox also signed 6-10 Osahen Iduwe from Nigeria, 6-7 Pape Diatta from Sengal, and 6-4 Dusan Langura from Switzerland, all of whom played fewer minutes with minimal success at Georgia. So he did recruit interantionally, with some success, just not great success getting great players or getting a lot of players from overseas. Personally, I feel we should still be mainly a public school for kids from California, and I like players from overseas, I just don't think we should concentrate heavily on them, like Gonzaga does.

So I think Fox had some experience with signing international players, and probably already had some connections when he arrived at Cal. I also remember reading that one of his Cal assistants had been successful in international recruiting. Kuany, Lars, and Klonaras are perhaps the result of Fox's previous connections. All raw, but there is some potential there, especially with Kuany.

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Yes, thanks of course he had overseas connections, and recruited foreign players at Georgia. Let me clarify: Georgia is not as attractive a destination for overseas recruits as Cal is for a whole host of reasons. A coach at Georgia has to recruit Georgia successfully to be successful. Whatever recruiting Fox had done, foreign or domestic, he had a one year gap, so he was late on the top recruits. That includes foreign recruits. Still Fox brought in foreign recruits in his first class and clearly recognizes it as a comparative advantage for Cal. As he starts identifying and recruiting top foreign players to Cal earlier in the cycle he will land some, based on the attractiveness of Cal as a destination independent of success in the Tournament.

calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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91Cal said:

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Chunger89 said:

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I was looking at Arizona's recruiting class for this year and was surprised at how Miller was able to pull in six highly rated international players (Canada, Turkey, France, and three from Lithuania). Obviously Arizona has a draw from a basketball standpoint, but I remember how we were recruiting players like Poetl, Sarr, Yurtseven in years past. I know Fox is open to recruiting international players (Lars, Klonaras, etc) but what separates us from finding these other gems and would/should we focus on recruiting more of these players in the future? I look at a program who has thrived with this model, being Gonzaga who has at least a third of their roster with foreign students who they've developed into high round picks (Sabonis, Hachimura, Tillie, Petrusev, Ayayi). We should be able to pitch our university given the diverse student body and draw of the Bay Area demographic.

---

As well, our much smaller neighbor St. Mary's has had a continual pipeline, particularly from Australia.

The appeal of schools like St. Mary's, Gonzaga, Arizona, etc. is completely different.

Until we are in the dance consistently, and consistently making it to the second weekend, hard to expect us to be able to attract the NBA level talent.

---

I think all that is less a factor for international players. It did not make sense for Fox to recruit internationally at Georgia, he just needed to recruit Georgia. That was where his efforts were best spent. When he was hired at Cal he had a one year gap since being fired at Georgia so he was not then currently recruiting anyone and was coming in late in the recruiting cycle. He did identify international players as a key source of players for Cal, brought in three (essentially). As he develops international connections he will identify top players earlier (what Braun did well) and Cal's international reputation and area will help seal the deal.

---

Why would it not make sense to recruit internationally at Georgia, especially when competition for Georgia recruits was intense, and Fox, even though the vast majority of players he signed were from Georgia, still he was not landing the best ones, except maybe for Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. Why not look everywhere you can for recruits? Except for Caldwell-Pope, Fox's best recruit was perhaps Yante Maten, from Michigan, who had an excellent 4-year career at Georgia.

Fox did recruit internationally while at Georgia. His first international recruit was from Montenegro, 6-9 Dusan Djurisic, who played one season of high school ball in Connecticut, and who had a good 4-year career at Georgia, improving each year, to become a starter in his senior year, averaging 11 points and 5 rebbounds. Another of Fox's recruits who had a good career at Georgia was 6-9 Derek Obeide. Obeide was a 3-year starter at Georgia, averaging 9 points and 4-5 rebounds his last year. Fox also signed 6-10 Osahen Iduwe from Nigeria, 6-7 Pape Diatta from Sengal, and 6-4 Dusan Langura from Switzerland, all of whom played fewer minutes with minimal success at Georgia. So he did recruit interantionally, with some success, just not great success getting great players or getting a lot of players from overseas. Personally, I feel we should still be mainly a public school for kids from California, and I like players from overseas, I just don't think we should concentrate heavily on them, like Gonzaga does.

So I think Fox had some experience with signing international players, and probably already had some connections when he arrived at Cal. I also remember reading that one of his Cal assistants had been successful in international recruiting. Kuany, Lars, and Klonaras are perhaps the result of Fox's previous connections. All raw, but there is some potential there, especially with Kuany.

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Yes, thanks of course he had overseas connections, and recruited foreign players at Georgia. Let me clarify: Georgia is not as attractive a destination for overseas recruits as Cal is for a whole host of reasons. A coach at Georgia has to recruit Georgia successfully to be successful. Whatever recruiting Fox had done, foreign or domestic, he had a one year gap, so he was late on the top recruits. That includes foreign recruits. Still Fox brought in foreign recruits in his first class and clearly recognizes it as a comparative advantage for Cal. As he starts identifying and recruiting top foreign players to Cal earlier in the cycle he will land some, based on the attractiveness of Cal as a destination independent of success in the Tournament.

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OK, thanks, I wasn't clear on what you were saying, and now I understand. I wonder if Fox passed or lost out on any international recruits in the current cycle. He will get another chance with the up coming class, with Anticevich graduating and Betley and Foreman using up their eligibilty at the end of this season. He has at least 3 scholarships to play with.

91Cal said:

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Chunger89 said:

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I was looking at Arizona's recruiting class for this year and was surprised at how Miller was able to pull in six highly rated international players (Canada, Turkey, France, and three from Lithuania). Obviously Arizona has a draw from a basketball standpoint, but I remember how we were recruiting players like Poetl, Sarr, Yurtseven in years past. I know Fox is open to recruiting international players (Lars, Klonaras, etc) but what separates us from finding these other gems and would/should we focus on recruiting more of these players in the future? I look at a program who has thrived with this model, being Gonzaga who has at least a third of their roster with foreign students who they've developed into high round picks (Sabonis, Hachimura, Tillie, Petrusev, Ayayi). We should be able to pitch our university given the diverse student body and draw of the Bay Area demographic.

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As well, our much smaller neighbor St. Mary's has had a continual pipeline, particularly from Australia.

The appeal of schools like St. Mary's, Gonzaga, Arizona, etc. is completely different.

Until we are in the dance consistently, and consistently making it to the second weekend, hard to expect us to be able to attract the NBA level talent.

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If you want NBA level talent, then you must back that up with class after class after class of NBA level talent, and that is very hard to do when you are starting at the bottom, the basement of Division One college basketball. The signing of NBA level talents Brown and Rabb, combined with their leaving after one year and two years, combined with Cuonzo leaving Cal for a ton of money, and further combined with the disaster of hiring a coach like Wyking Jones, without an iota of head coaching experience at any level, is what sent us directly to the trash bin, only a few years after we had won the PAC10 Championship. But it all started with the signing of one and dones. I'm glad I saw Brown and Rabb play for Cal, but in the end their time here was wasted, as far as program success was concerned, IMO

First, once you sign NBA level talent, you must begin figuring out what to do after next season, when they leave. Cuonzo must have known this, and he must have tried to find bodies of equal ability, but he basically came up empty, and then he left. It is so hard to win these recruiting battles for the stars. But you must keep winning them, or you will fail to sustain success. I much prefer the 3 or 4 year player, maybe not quite NBA level, maybe like Fox's Yante Maten at Georgia. Solid 4-year player, SEC POY. Put say, 3 of those guys on the floor with 2 players who work well with them, and you might have something. And you won't have to win as many recruiting battles the NBA level players.

I wonder why we pay so much attention to Sean Miller. Montgomery didn't worry about him too much. He beat him 3 times out of 8, with far less talented players overall. Miller has yet to reach a Final Four at Arizona. His ceiling appears to be losing in the Regional Final, which he has done twice. He is in the middle of the latest recruiting scandal, so you know what he has had to do to recruit his players. Why not rather ask Lute Olson the formula for success? At Arizona for 24 years, Lute went to the Final Four 4 times, lost twice in the semi-final, lost once in the final, and won the Championship in 1997. He went to 6 Regional Finals and won 4 of them. He went to 10 Regional Semi-finals and won 6 of them. Like Miller, he also had loads of NBA level talent. The difference was that on all his best NCAA tournament teams, he did it with nearly all 4-year players. Of those tournament teams only Mike Bibby and Gilbert Arenas left for the NBA after 2 years, and Will Bynum transferred after 2 years. Wright and Richard Jefferson left for the NBA after 3 years. The rest of Olson's players in these tournament games who eventually played in the NBA stayed at Arizona for 4 years.

Basketball is not plug and play. The value of having mostly the same rotation intact, playing for one coach for 3 or 4 years is immeasurable. We can't just lose a 5 star player to the NBA, and expect to replace him with equal talent, and even if the new freshman is equal or better talent, there is no guarantee or probability he will mesh and have chemistry with his new teammates, resulting in team success. Better to have players who will stick around for 3 or 4 years, playing for one coach in one system. Maybe with the rules and the attraction of the NBA now, maybe it can't be done any more. If not, that is tragic.

we had a loaded team with Brown, Rabb, Wallace, Bird, Mathew, and sixth man Singer, and post defender King

after that, the talent dropped off fast

That was a very successful regular season, sweeping the home slate, and earning a number 4 seed. The problem is we didn't cash in on that season due to a series of unfortunate events.

That team could have reached the sweet sixteen with two very beatable teams in the region. Many teams before went from obscruity to a perennial contender with just one successful NCAA run. A recent example is Texas Tech after one good NCAA run.

The problem is the only thing that matters is what you do in the tournament. If you don't advance, you are invisible in the college basketball world.

HoopDreams said:

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we had a loaded team with Brown, Rabb, Wallace, Bird, Mathew, and sixth man Singer, and post defender King

after that, the talent dropped off fast

That was a very successful regular season, sweeping the home slate, and earning a number 4 seed. The problem is we didn't cash in on that season due to a series of unfortunate events.

That team could have reached the sweet sixteen with two very beatable teams in the region. Many teams before went from obscruity to a perennial contender with just one successful NCAA run. A recent example is Texas Tech after one good NCAA run.

The problem is the only thing that matters is what you do in the tournament. If you don't advance, you are invisible in the college basketball world.

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Story of Cal