I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

Nah

Different players, different eras. Both players can make viable arguments as the greatest. MJ will stay the greatest in most peoples mind (especially those over 40) because of the 6-0 in finals and he had this coolness that LBJ simply doesn't have.

Used to love LeBron as a player and a person, not so much anymore with his on and off the floor antics and posturing.

hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

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Different players in different eras. Both dynamic leaders and ferocious competitors though LeBron probably does more things well (edge as a passer, rebounder, position versatility). Personally, I prefer Jordan's elegantly fluid style to LeBron's brute power but that reflects my general distaste for the physicality of the NBA. The number of rings may ultimately tip the scale on this debate.

dimitrig said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Lebron: Great player <xxx xxx xxx> ..actions always speak louder than words.

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^ political content deleted by moderators, cool. quotes of the offense.. not so much.

hmmmmmmmmmmm.

helltopay1 said:

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hmmmmmmmmmmm.

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Source and citations please.

dimitrig said:

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I must have missed when Lebron faced Shaq and Kobe in the playoffs.

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I must have missed when Kobe was better than Shaq

hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

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Okay, Hanky - you are relatively new around these parts, so I'll reintroduce a long time thread that's been visited many times.

Your assignment is the fill out 8 positions for your all-time fantasy NBA team. You must pick your team to beat all other all-star fantasy teams.

If an opponent is a BIG team, you need to match up that way (like the Lakers this year, eg).
If an opponent is a 3 point shooting bonanza, or a running fast break squad, you need to match up that way.
You've got 5 starters and 3 off the bench.

Which direction do you go?
Who is your point guard? Curry has size issues. Magic can't shoot. You get the idea...
You must defend your picks. Have at it.

Lebron just walked off the court before the game was over for the second time in his career. Great player--great jerk..

helltopay1 said:

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Lebron just walked off the court before the game was over for the second time in his career. Great player--great jerk..

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Yup

hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

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It is impossible to compare eras objectively or honestly. And what meaning does it have to compare players who play different positions with each other.

I've seen them all play in their primes, and for me, Wilt or Russell would stuff Jordan or LeBron any day of the week. Most if not all the baskets Lebron or Jordan would get against Wilt or Russ would be threes. Inside, forget it. Wilt and Russell were way better defenders than either Jordan or LeBron. Way better rebounders as well.

I did not watch the NBA this year, but when was the last time we saw LeBron called for a charge, a travel, or a palm? The rules of today permit all of that, and the rules today also forbid hand-checking, which Jordan, Russell and Wilt all had to deal with.

59bear said:

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hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

---

Different players in different eras. Both dynamic leaders and ferocious competitors though LeBron probably does more things well (edge as a passer, rebounder, position versatility). Personally, I prefer Jordan's elegantly fluid style to LeBron's brute power but that reflects my general distaste for the physicality of the NBA. The number of rings may ultimately tip the scale on this debate.

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If it comes down to number of rings, Bill Russell has 11. Eight players have more rings than Jordan, and 26 players have more rings than LeBron.

SFCityBear said:

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hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

---

It is impossible to compare eras objectively or honestly. And what meaning does it have to compare players who play different positions with each other.

I've seen them all play in their primes, and for me, Wilt or Russell would stuff Jordan or LeBron any day of the week. Most if not all the baskets Lebron or Jordan would get against Wilt or Russ would be threes. Inside, forget it. Wilt and Russell were way better defenders than either Jordan or LeBron. Way better rebounders as well.

I did not watch the NBA this year, but when was the last time we saw LeBron called for a charge, a travel, or a palm? The rules of today permit all of that, and the rules today also forbid hand-checking, which Jordan, Russell and Wilt all had to deal with.

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Interestingly enough, I have been watching the playoffs and Lebron was called for traveling two possessions in a row in Game Three so that would be the last time. It helps to watch the games.

SFCityBear said:

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59bear said:

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hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

---

Different players in different eras. Both dynamic leaders and ferocious competitors though LeBron probably does more things well (edge as a passer, rebounder, position versatility). Personally, I prefer Jordan's elegantly fluid style to LeBron's brute power but that reflects my general distaste for the physicality of the NBA. The number of rings may ultimately tip the scale on this debate.

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If it comes down to number of rings, Bill Russell has 11. Eight players have more rings than Jordan, and 26 players have more rings than LeBron.

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I'm guessing the increase in the number of teams and league parity (salary caps, etc.) come into play at least a little bit.

SFCityBear said:

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59bear said:

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hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

---

Different players in different eras. Both dynamic leaders and ferocious competitors though LeBron probably does more things well (edge as a passer, rebounder, position versatility). Personally, I prefer Jordan's elegantly fluid style to LeBron's brute power but that reflects my general distaste for the physicality of the NBA. The number of rings may ultimately tip the scale on this debate.

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If it comes down to number of rings, Bill Russell has 11. Eight players have more rings than Jordan, and 26 players have more rings than LeBron.

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How many of those eight rode the coattails of Russell (who, I agree, deserves a category of his own)? One thing in LeBron's favor is that he's won his titles with 2 going on 3 teams. Many "GOAT" candidates have benefited from the quality of the organization in which they flourished.

Diversion: the lovely fantasy that had Braun signing James to a Cal scholarship..... One version of the story....

Civil Bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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59bear said:

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hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

---

Different players in different eras. Both dynamic leaders and ferocious competitors though LeBron probably does more things well (edge as a passer, rebounder, position versatility). Personally, I prefer Jordan's elegantly fluid style to LeBron's brute power but that reflects my general distaste for the physicality of the NBA. The number of rings may ultimately tip the scale on this debate.

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If it comes down to number of rings, Bill Russell has 11. Eight players have more rings than Jordan, and 26 players have more rings than LeBron.

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I'm guessing the increase in the number of teams and league parity (salary caps, etc.) come into play at least a little bit.

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You are right. I also made a mistake in that there are 37 players who have more rings than LeBron, not 26. If and when the Lakers win it this year, LeBron will move up the list. And if the Miami Heat should happen to win the NBA title this year, none other than our own (or my own) favorite, Andre Iguodala, would win his 4th championship and 4th ring, putting him ahead of LeBron on the list. When it comes to NBA Finals, Iggy has been a gamer.

59bear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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59bear said:

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hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

---

Different players in different eras. Both dynamic leaders and ferocious competitors though LeBron probably does more things well (edge as a passer, rebounder, position versatility). Personally, I prefer Jordan's elegantly fluid style to LeBron's brute power but that reflects my general distaste for the physicality of the NBA. The number of rings may ultimately tip the scale on this debate.

---

If it comes down to number of rings, Bill Russell has 11. Eight players have more rings than Jordan, and 26 players have more rings than LeBron.

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How many of those eight rode the coattails of Russell (who, I agree, deserves a category of his own)? One thing in LeBron's favor is that he's won his titles with 2 going on 3 teams. Many "GOAT" candidates have benefited from the quality of the organization in which they flourished.

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True enough. I am reminded of the conversation between Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain, perhaps in their 50s, when Wilt said that Russell was the better player of the two, and he said the reason was that Russell always played to make his teammates better, while Wilt said his own teammates always played to make him better.

This Lakers team is more talented than the Cleveland teams Lebron played for and yet they lost twice to a young and scrappy Miami team with no superstars except for Jimmy Butler on a good day. Erik Spoelstra is a genius.

BearForce2 said:

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This Lakers team is more talented than the Cleveland teams Lebron played for and yet they lost twice to a young and scrappy Miami team with no superstars except for Jimmy Butler on a good day. Erik Spoelstra is a genius.

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Jimmy Butler has really upped his game. He is the 2nd best player on either team this series. They beat a talented Boston team and Milwaukee, too. This Heat team is no joke. They deserve to be where they are.

dimitrig said:

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BearForce2 said:

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This Lakers team is more talented than the Cleveland teams Lebron played for and yet they lost twice to a young and scrappy Miami team with no superstars except for Jimmy Butler on a good day. Erik Spoelstra is a genius.

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Jimmy Butler has really upped his game. He is the 2nd best player on either team this series. They beat a talented Boston team and Milwaukee, too. This Heat team is no joke. They deserve to be where they are.

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He was the difference maker on the Timberwolves. KAT is soft and Wiggins was not that good.

dimitrig said:

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BearForce2 said:

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This Lakers team is more talented than the Cleveland teams Lebron played for and yet they lost twice to a young and scrappy Miami team with no superstars except for Jimmy Butler on a good day. Erik Spoelstra is a genius.

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Jimmy Butler has really upped his game. He is the 2nd best player on either team this series. They beat a talented Boston team and Milwaukee, too. This Heat team is no joke. They deserve to be where they are.

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agree re: butler. I didn't think much of him going into this series, but he has really got it done on both ends of the court

for a SF to play that well without a 3 point shot in this era is pretty amazing

HoopDreams said:

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dimitrig said:

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BearForce2 said:

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This Lakers team is more talented than the Cleveland teams Lebron played for and yet they lost twice to a young and scrappy Miami team with no superstars except for Jimmy Butler on a good day. Erik Spoelstra is a genius.

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Jimmy Butler has really upped his game. He is the 2nd best player on either team this series. They beat a talented Boston team and Milwaukee, too. This Heat team is no joke. They deserve to be where they are.

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agree re: butler. I didn't think much of him going into this series, but he has really got it done on both ends of the court

for a SF to play that well without a 3 point shot in this era is pretty amazing

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He has had an obvious impact on the floor if you've watched, but his stats are crazy!

23 points, 2 rebound, 5 assists, 2 steals was his WORST game (Game One)

Since then:

25/8/13/1
40/11/13/2
22/10/9/3
35/12/11/5

Also averaging almost a block a game!

He is only 3-11 from 3PT, but one of the ones he made was a very tough shot showing he does have some touch.

He is shooting 56% overall.

It also deserves mentioning that in The Finals he has played huge minutes:

33, 44, 44, 43, 47

I always thought of him as overrated, but he has come through Big Time.

Definitely the NBA Finals MVP if the Heat pull it out! One of the best performances I have seen.

dimitrig said:

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SFCityBear said:

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hanky1 said:

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I lived through Jordan's prime years. I saw all of it. Bron is better. He goes up against legends like Durant, Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Gian, etc to win his championships.

Who the hell did MJ beat? An aging Magic? Bird with a broken back? Brad Daugherty and Craig Ehlo? LOL.

Wake up and accept the truth.

---

It is impossible to compare eras objectively or honestly. And what meaning does it have to compare players who play different positions with each other.

I've seen them all play in their primes, and for me, Wilt or Russell would stuff Jordan or LeBron any day of the week. Most if not all the baskets Lebron or Jordan would get against Wilt or Russ would be threes. Inside, forget it. Wilt and Russell were way better defenders than either Jordan or LeBron. Way better rebounders as well.

I did not watch the NBA this year, but when was the last time we saw LeBron called for a charge, a travel, or a palm? The rules of today permit all of that, and the rules today also forbid hand-checking, which Jordan, Russell and Wilt all had to deal with.

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Interestingly enough, I have been watching the playoffs and Lebron was called for traveling two possessions in a row in Game Three so that would be the last time. It helps to watch the games.

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Well, glory be! Good to hear that there is some enforcement of the old rules. Actually, it is not LeBron's traveling or palming that I mind, because he doesn't really need to do either one to score. It is the charging that I dislike. He doesn't make many trips to the hoop without initiating contact that isn't called, unless he has changed his style. I've often felt the refs protected him. I felt the same way about Shaq, and Kareem to a lesser degree. Wilt never fouled out of a single game, but he was quicker and more agile, so maybe was able to avoid initiating much contact. Plus Wilt played in an era when the NBA was struggling financially, and Chamberlain was one of the biggest attractions in the sport, so to foul him out would have disappointed many fans in those days and maybe affected ticket sales. Fans came to see him play, just as they come to see Kareem, Shaq, or today, LeBron.

GOAT

hanky1 said:

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GOAT

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IYD