Anyone want to take a stab at it?

Okay, thanks.
Sueing left the season before.

I get that Paris and South graduated.
But what happened to Juhwan Harris-Dyson and Gordon?

article on
https://www.si.com/college/cal/basketball/grad-transfer-betley-from-penn

Oh wow - I didn't even realize that JHD had this happen to him last season.

"But he missed the second half of the season. On February 1, in a postgame press conference following a victory over Oregon State, Cal head coach Mark Fox announced that Harris-Dyson would be out indefinitely for academic reasons."

I don't see articles saying he was picked up anywhere...
Maybe he's not playing at all. Did he leave Cal or is he a student still?

Gordon, I guess at least partly based on his injury, was never able to be much of a factor at this level. He transferred to a smaller program, in or closer to his native Texas (forget which school).

Re Harris-Dyson, I don't know what he's up to this year, but I think it would be really cool if he ended up with a Cal degree. Or some basketball success and a degree if he goes elsewhere.


These two guys came to Cal and really tried to make things work. Sometimes, with early departures, it's like "don't let the door hit you on the butt, on your way out", but I sincerely wish Gordon and Harris-Dyson the very best.

Also of note, CT, are where some of the transfers have gone:

Connor Vanover and Justice Sueing have started out as big contributors at Arkansas and Ohio St, respectively.

Darius McNeill is at SMU, where Cal decommit Charles Smith IV also is (and even former Cuonzo recruit Tyson Jolly). Of course, that is where Sonny Dykes is, too.

concordtom said:

---

Okay, thanks.
Sueing left the season before.

I get that Paris and South graduated.
But what happened to Juhwan Harris-Dyson and Gordon?

---

He hasnt signed anywhere else.

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Basketball/TransferPortal/

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Rosters are up to date. In terms of regular rotation . . .

Paris, South, Harris-Dyson & Gordon are replaced by . . .

Betley, Freeman, Bowser & Celestine

Slight upgrade IMHO

---

Makele Foreman. He can shoot, solid with the ball and has some veteran experience. Betley gets off his shot from long distance as fast as anyone at Cal in recent memory. Bowser looks like a high flyer, but he landed on his head yesterday and had to go to the hospital. He Tweeted that he's OK though. Celestine looks like he has a D-1 physique already but he only recently has practiced after being injured. We have a lot more depth this year. Sueing, McNeil and Vanover leaving before last season really hurt our depth. Not only that they left but it gave us no real time to replenish. I think we should be a little better than last year. Losing Paris hurts though. We really need Joel to play confidently and strong with the ball.

---

I am going to argue that there is no depth. There is a starting 5 of Foreman, Betley, Bradley, GA, and Kelly. After that, lots of questions. Thorpe gets some minutes behind Kelly. He should be able to defend but his offense is basic. I am a Thiemann believer, but not this year. KK looks like a player but lacks instincts and skills. I think he should move closer to the basket. Bowser is a great athlete with lots of future potential but does not appear to be there yet. Brown can defend but nothing else. As Cal only barely runs an offense, the lack of a second creator that Austin was last year will make this season even more difficult. Should be better next year. I like the Irish guy and hopefully Celestine regains his form.

Sluggo

I added Arkansas to my ESPN app favorites so I can track Vanover's progress. He had 16 boards the other night. Perhaps he will bring me back from the "It will never fly, Wilbur," dark side.

Big C said:

---

Also of note, CT, are where some of the transfers have gone:

Connor Vanover and Justice Sueing have started out as big contributors at Arkansas and Ohio St, respectively.

Darius McNeill is at SMU, where Cal decommit Charles Smith IV also is (and even former Cuonzo recruit Tyson Jolly). Of course, that is where Sonny Dykes is, too.

---

Charles Smith has shot very well in two games vs mid-majors

sluggo said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Rosters are up to date. In terms of regular rotation . . .

Paris, South, Harris-Dyson & Gordon are replaced by . . .

Betley, Freeman, Bowser & Celestine

Slight upgrade IMHO

---

Makele Foreman. He can shoot, solid with the ball and has some veteran experience. Betley gets off his shot from long distance as fast as anyone at Cal in recent memory. Bowser looks like a high flyer, but he landed on his head yesterday and had to go to the hospital. He Tweeted that he's OK though. Celestine looks like he has a D-1 physique already but he only recently has practiced after being injured. We have a lot more depth this year. Sueing, McNeil and Vanover leaving before last season really hurt our depth. Not only that they left but it gave us no real time to replenish. I think we should be a little better than last year. Losing Paris hurts though. We really need Joel to play confidently and strong with the ball.

---

I am going to argue that there is no depth. There is a starting 5 of Foreman, Betley, Bradley, GA, and Kelly. After that, lots of questions. Thorpe gets some minutes behind Kelly. He should be able to defend but his offense is basic. I am a Thiemann believer, but not this year. KK looks like a player but lacks instincts and skills. I think he should move closer to the basket. Bowser is a great athlete with lots of future potential but does not appear to be there yet. Brown can defend but nothing else. As Cal only barely runs an offense, the lack of a second creator that Austin was last year will make this season even more difficult. Should be better next year. I like the Irish guy and hopefully Celestine regains his form.

Sluggo

---

Generally agree, especially based on last year and what we've seen from the newcomers, but I don't think it is so clear cut. Thorpe was really productive in limited play as was Bowser. Anticevich has not been shooting well so far , but hopefully turns it around. Kelly has yet to start.

The season is young but here is the team ranked in Win Shares per 40:
1. Welle*
2. Thorpe*
3. Bradley
4. Bowser*
5. Betley
6. Thiemann
7. Foreman
8. Kelly
9. Kuany*
10. Brown
11. Anticevich
12. Klonaras*
13. Celestine*
14. Alters*
*limited minutes

I agree that Foreman, Betley and Bradley are clearly our backcourt and we should maximize their minutes. I also think Kelly should start. That is our best 4 at the moment. Lars/Grant/Thorpe depending on who is playing well for the other starter and front court depth. Brown at PG only to give Foreman a breather.

Right now Bowser and Kuany for back up minutes at the 3 when Bradley or Betley need a rest.

Jacobi transferred to the U of Louisiana at Lafayette. Still no news as to where JHD has transferred...

https://ragincajuns.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/jacobi-gordon/7538

calumnus said:

---

sluggo said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Rosters are up to date. In terms of regular rotation . . .

Paris, South, Harris-Dyson & Gordon are replaced by . . .

Betley, Freeman, Bowser & Celestine

Slight upgrade IMHO

---

Makele Foreman. He can shoot, solid with the ball and has some veteran experience. Betley gets off his shot from long distance as fast as anyone at Cal in recent memory. Bowser looks like a high flyer, but he landed on his head yesterday and had to go to the hospital. He Tweeted that he's OK though. Celestine looks like he has a D-1 physique already but he only recently has practiced after being injured. We have a lot more depth this year. Sueing, McNeil and Vanover leaving before last season really hurt our depth. Not only that they left but it gave us no real time to replenish. I think we should be a little better than last year. Losing Paris hurts though. We really need Joel to play confidently and strong with the ball.

---

I am going to argue that there is no depth. There is a starting 5 of Foreman, Betley, Bradley, GA, and Kelly. After that, lots of questions. Thorpe gets some minutes behind Kelly. He should be able to defend but his offense is basic. I am a Thiemann believer, but not this year. KK looks like a player but lacks instincts and skills. I think he should move closer to the basket. Bowser is a great athlete with lots of future potential but does not appear to be there yet. Brown can defend but nothing else. As Cal only barely runs an offense, the lack of a second creator that Austin was last year will make this season even more difficult. Should be better next year. I like the Irish guy and hopefully Celestine regains his form.

Sluggo

---

Generally agree, especially based on last year and what we've seen from the newcomers, but I don't think it is so clear cut. Thorpe was really productive in limited play as was Bowser. Anticevich has not been shooting well so far , but hopefully turns it around. Kelly has yet to start.

The season is young but here is the team ranked in Win Shares per 40:
1. Welle*
2. Thorpe*
3. Bradley
4. Bowser*
5. Betley
6. Thiemann
7. Foreman
8. Kelly
9. Kuany*
10. Brown
11. Anticevich
12. Klonaras*
13. Celestine*
14. Alters*
*limited minutes

I agree that Foreman, Betley and Bradley are clearly our backcourt and we should maximize their minutes. I also think Kelly should start. That is our best 4 at the moment. Lars/Grant/Thorpe depending on who is playing well for the other starter and front court depth. Brown at PG only to give Foreman a breather.

Right now Bowser and Kuany for back up minutes at the 3 when Bradley or Betley need a rest.

---

I agree that it is not clear. Because of the strange offseason players will probably reach their levels at different times. I am giving GA the benefit of the doubt because he was good last year. But there is clearly no depth if there are not even five clear starters. And other than Bradley which Cal player starts for any team in the top half of the conference? Probably none. The rebuild is going slowly and its ultimate success is far from guaranteed.

Sluggo

sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sluggo said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Rosters are up to date. In terms of regular rotation . . .

Paris, South, Harris-Dyson & Gordon are replaced by . . .

Betley, Freeman, Bowser & Celestine

Slight upgrade IMHO

---

Makele Foreman. He can shoot, solid with the ball and has some veteran experience. Betley gets off his shot from long distance as fast as anyone at Cal in recent memory. Bowser looks like a high flyer, but he landed on his head yesterday and had to go to the hospital. He Tweeted that he's OK though. Celestine looks like he has a D-1 physique already but he only recently has practiced after being injured. We have a lot more depth this year. Sueing, McNeil and Vanover leaving before last season really hurt our depth. Not only that they left but it gave us no real time to replenish. I think we should be a little better than last year. Losing Paris hurts though. We really need Joel to play confidently and strong with the ball.

---

I am going to argue that there is no depth. There is a starting 5 of Foreman, Betley, Bradley, GA, and Kelly. After that, lots of questions. Thorpe gets some minutes behind Kelly. He should be able to defend but his offense is basic. I am a Thiemann believer, but not this year. KK looks like a player but lacks instincts and skills. I think he should move closer to the basket. Bowser is a great athlete with lots of future potential but does not appear to be there yet. Brown can defend but nothing else. As Cal only barely runs an offense, the lack of a second creator that Austin was last year will make this season even more difficult. Should be better next year. I like the Irish guy and hopefully Celestine regains his form.

Sluggo

---

Generally agree, especially based on last year and what we've seen from the newcomers, but I don't think it is so clear cut. Thorpe was really productive in limited play as was Bowser. Anticevich has not been shooting well so far , but hopefully turns it around. Kelly has yet to start.

The season is young but here is the team ranked in Win Shares per 40:
1. Welle*
2. Thorpe*
3. Bradley
4. Bowser*
5. Betley
6. Thiemann
7. Foreman
8. Kelly
9. Kuany*
10. Brown
11. Anticevich
12. Klonaras*
13. Celestine*
14. Alters*
*limited minutes

I agree that Foreman, Betley and Bradley are clearly our backcourt and we should maximize their minutes. I also think Kelly should start. That is our best 4 at the moment. Lars/Grant/Thorpe depending on who is playing well for the other starter and front court depth. Brown at PG only to give Foreman a breather.

Right now Bowser and Kuany for back up minutes at the 3 when Bradley or Betley need a rest.

---

I agree that it is not clear. Because of the strange offseason players will probably reach their levels at different times. I am giving GA the benefit of the doubt because he was good last year. But there is clearly no depth if there are not even five clear starters. And other than Bradley which Cal player starts for any team in the top half of the conference? Probably none. The rebuild is going slowly and its ultimate success is far from guaranteed.

Sluggo

---

I think KAB's depth comment was in relation to last year. Cleary not great, but likely improved once the returning players get their feet under them.

Civil Bear said:

---

sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sluggo said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Rosters are up to date. In terms of regular rotation . . .

Paris, South, Harris-Dyson & Gordon are replaced by . . .

Betley, Freeman, Bowser & Celestine

Slight upgrade IMHO

---

Makele Foreman. He can shoot, solid with the ball and has some veteran experience. Betley gets off his shot from long distance as fast as anyone at Cal in recent memory. Bowser looks like a high flyer, but he landed on his head yesterday and had to go to the hospital. He Tweeted that he's OK though. Celestine looks like he has a D-1 physique already but he only recently has practiced after being injured. We have a lot more depth this year. Sueing, McNeil and Vanover leaving before last season really hurt our depth. Not only that they left but it gave us no real time to replenish. I think we should be a little better than last year. Losing Paris hurts though. We really need Joel to play confidently and strong with the ball.

---

I am going to argue that there is no depth. There is a starting 5 of Foreman, Betley, Bradley, GA, and Kelly. After that, lots of questions. Thorpe gets some minutes behind Kelly. He should be able to defend but his offense is basic. I am a Thiemann believer, but not this year. KK looks like a player but lacks instincts and skills. I think he should move closer to the basket. Bowser is a great athlete with lots of future potential but does not appear to be there yet. Brown can defend but nothing else. As Cal only barely runs an offense, the lack of a second creator that Austin was last year will make this season even more difficult. Should be better next year. I like the Irish guy and hopefully Celestine regains his form.

Sluggo

---

Generally agree, especially based on last year and what we've seen from the newcomers, but I don't think it is so clear cut. Thorpe was really productive in limited play as was Bowser. Anticevich has not been shooting well so far , but hopefully turns it around. Kelly has yet to start.

The season is young but here is the team ranked in Win Shares per 40:
1. Welle*
2. Thorpe*
3. Bradley
4. Bowser*
5. Betley
6. Thiemann
7. Foreman
8. Kelly
9. Kuany*
10. Brown
11. Anticevich
12. Klonaras*
13. Celestine*
14. Alters*
*limited minutes

I agree that Foreman, Betley and Bradley are clearly our backcourt and we should maximize their minutes. I also think Kelly should start. That is our best 4 at the moment. Lars/Grant/Thorpe depending on who is playing well for the other starter and front court depth. Brown at PG only to give Foreman a breather.

Right now Bowser and Kuany for back up minutes at the 3 when Bradley or Betley need a rest.

---

I agree that it is not clear. Because of the strange offseason players will probably reach their levels at different times. I am giving GA the benefit of the doubt because he was good last year. But there is clearly no depth if there are not even five clear starters. And other than Bradley which Cal player starts for any team in the top half of the conference? Probably none. The rebuild is going slowly and its ultimate success is far from guaranteed.

Sluggo

---

I think KAB's depth comment was in relation to last year. Cleary not great, but likely improved once the returning players get their feet under them.

---

Yes, but I don't see it. I prefer South/Austin to Foreman/Betley. The wildcard is Bowser and possibly Celestine, but it is a bad sign that Celestine is not in the rotation.

Sluggo

Quote:

---

The wildcard is Bowser and possibly Celestine, but it is a bad sign that Celestine is not in the rotation.

---

I read somewhere that Celestine is coming off an injury and we all saw Bowser almost fall through the floor. Between injuries and the strange non-preseason I'm not expecting either to contribute a lot early in the season.

It could be worse - after 2 games our women's team has lost 3 of their 5 scholarship guards for the season, leaving 1 soph PG, 1 freshie SG, 2 former walk-on SGs, and 1 freshie SF/PF to play on the perimeter.

sluggo said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

sluggo said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sluggo said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Rosters are up to date. In terms of regular rotation . . .

Paris, South, Harris-Dyson & Gordon are replaced by . . .

Betley, Freeman, Bowser & Celestine

Slight upgrade IMHO

---

Makele Foreman. He can shoot, solid with the ball and has some veteran experience. Betley gets off his shot from long distance as fast as anyone at Cal in recent memory. Bowser looks like a high flyer, but he landed on his head yesterday and had to go to the hospital. He Tweeted that he's OK though. Celestine looks like he has a D-1 physique already but he only recently has practiced after being injured. We have a lot more depth this year. Sueing, McNeil and Vanover leaving before last season really hurt our depth. Not only that they left but it gave us no real time to replenish. I think we should be a little better than last year. Losing Paris hurts though. We really need Joel to play confidently and strong with the ball.

---

I am going to argue that there is no depth. There is a starting 5 of Foreman, Betley, Bradley, GA, and Kelly. After that, lots of questions. Thorpe gets some minutes behind Kelly. He should be able to defend but his offense is basic. I am a Thiemann believer, but not this year. KK looks like a player but lacks instincts and skills. I think he should move closer to the basket. Bowser is a great athlete with lots of future potential but does not appear to be there yet. Brown can defend but nothing else. As Cal only barely runs an offense, the lack of a second creator that Austin was last year will make this season even more difficult. Should be better next year. I like the Irish guy and hopefully Celestine regains his form.

Sluggo

---

Generally agree, especially based on last year and what we've seen from the newcomers, but I don't think it is so clear cut. Thorpe was really productive in limited play as was Bowser. Anticevich has not been shooting well so far , but hopefully turns it around. Kelly has yet to start.

The season is young but here is the team ranked in Win Shares per 40:
1. Welle*
2. Thorpe*
3. Bradley
4. Bowser*
5. Betley
6. Thiemann
7. Foreman
8. Kelly
9. Kuany*
10. Brown
11. Anticevich
12. Klonaras*
13. Celestine*
14. Alters*
*limited minutes

I agree that Foreman, Betley and Bradley are clearly our backcourt and we should maximize their minutes. I also think Kelly should start. That is our best 4 at the moment. Lars/Grant/Thorpe depending on who is playing well for the other starter and front court depth. Brown at PG only to give Foreman a breather.

Right now Bowser and Kuany for back up minutes at the 3 when Bradley or Betley need a rest.

---

I agree that it is not clear. Because of the strange offseason players will probably reach their levels at different times. I am giving GA the benefit of the doubt because he was good last year. But there is clearly no depth if there are not even five clear starters. And other than Bradley which Cal player starts for any team in the top half of the conference? Probably none. The rebuild is going slowly and its ultimate success is far from guaranteed.

Sluggo

---

I think KAB's depth comment was in relation to last year. Cleary not great, but likely improved once the returning players get their feet under them.

---

Yes, but I don't see it. I prefer South/Austin to Foreman/Betley. The wildcard is Bowser and possibly Celestine, but it is a bad sign that Celestine is not in the rotation.

Sluggo

---

Fair enough. I think I prefer the new guys for scoring and rebounding, but that assumes Brown steps up to run the point at least as well as Austin, which shouldn't be that big of a leap but remains to be seen.

sluggo said:

---

Yes, but I don't see it. I prefer South/Austin to Foreman/Betley. The wildcard is Bowser and possibly Celestine, but it is a bad sign that Celestine is not in the rotation.

Sluggo

---

I prefer South/Austin at end of last year to Foreman/Betley at week 3. However, I think F/B at week 3 is better than South/Austin was at week 3 last year. But we should probably comparing Austin/South/Brown to Brown/Betley/Foreman - and that comparison is all about Brown Soph vs Frosh. I'm hoping Brown can step it up a bit and become a reliable starting PG.

stu said:

---

Quote:

---

The wildcard is Bowser and possibly Celestine, but it is a bad sign that Celestine is not in the rotation.

---

I read somewhere that Celestine is coming off an injury and we all saw Bowser almost fall through the floor. Between injuries and the strange non-preseason I'm not expecting either to contribute a lot early in the season.

It could be worse - after 2 games our women's team has lost 3 of their 5 scholarship guards for the season, leaving 1 soph PG, 1 freshie SG, 2 former walk-on SGs, and 1 freshie SF/PF to play on the perimeter.

---

The women's team is in deep doo doo. I feel so badly for Jazlen, Alma & Cailyn. All three were poised to have a good year. If I know Charmin, our young team will fight with grace & poise.

BeachedBear said:

---

I prefer South/Austin at end of last year to Foreman/Betley at week 3. However, I think F/B at week 3 is better than South/Austin was at week 3 last year.

---

It looks like Fox can coach so I expect to see Foreman and Betley improve through the season. But either way I prefer Betley to South, the tiebreaker being Betley can rebound from the guard position.

Foremans shooting has not been stellar.