FT shooting is horrendous. My god.

MoragaBear said:

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On the other hand, Thiemann's horrendous ft shooting tonight demands criticism...

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We didnt have much choice today with Bradley out.

NYCGOBEARS said:

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FT shooting is horrendous. My god.

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14-28 isn't going to get it done

MoragaBear said:

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On the other hand, Thiemann's horrendous ft shooting tonight demands criticism...

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On the OTHER other hand, he was in the thick of the action like never before. If he had hit some FTs and we had won today, people would be calling him Detlef Schrempf II.

MoragaBear said:

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On a brighter note than the game itself, I LOVE getting to see these box scores like this, Moraga! Thanks!

IssyBear said:

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Sorry, but we got out hustled, out quicked, and out coached. They were short handed and in foul trouble, yet we kept throwing lazy passes, and never tried to set up our remaining shooters with screens. If your game plan is to push the ball down low to Lars and Kelly, neither of whom can make free throws, and neither of whom can react quick enough on D, you have a problem. OSU just kept the pressure on and we made one mistake after another, and I saw no adjustments by our coaches. Very ugly.

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Agree.

tequila4kapp said:

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The roster is what the roster is but we are going down the stretch of a tight game with 3 -4 guys who shoot less than 50% from the FT line.

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This has to be the worst Cal free-throw shooting team ever. The team shot only 50% from the line tonight, with Thiemann going 3 for 11, Hyder going 2 for 5, and Brown 0 for 1. Hard to believe that a Pac-12 team could be this bad.

Golden One said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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The roster is what the roster is but we are going down the stretch of a tight game with 3 -4 guys who shoot less than 50% from the FT line.

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This has to be the worst Cal free-throw shooting team ever. The team shot only 50% from the line tonight, with Thiemann going 3 for 11, Hyder going 2 for 5, and Brown 0 for 1. Hard to believe that a Pac-12 team could be this bad.

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They lost it at the free throw line tonight, but I disagree that this is the worst free throw shooting team. Within the last 10 years there have been several Cal teams where no one could hit free throws. Brown is bad but Thiemann has shot 69% this year, just not tonight. Having said that, shooting 50% is not acceptable. But to put it in perspective, remember also that we were missing Anticevich for the whole game and Bradley for over half. In basketball the loss of even one key player can make a huge difference unless you're loaded with top talent - which Cal isn't.

Who says Cal isn't competitive?

Checked the box score, not surprised - it's Mark Fox

IssyBear said:

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Sorry, but we got out hustled, out quicked, and out coached. They were short handed and in foul trouble, yet we kept throwing lazy passes, and never tried to set up our remaining shooters with screens. If your game plan is to push the ball down low to Lars and Kelly, neither of whom can make free throws, and neither of whom can react quick enough on D, you have a problem. OSU just kept the pressure on and we made one mistake after another, and I saw no adjustments by our coaches. Very ugly.

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maybe so, but our team leaders were both on the sidelines injured

a team needs leadership, and there were just too many role players on the court in the second half

Kelly was our last remaining team leader, and he did everything he could

I can't blame the players

The reason I said the loss was on coach (probably an over statement) is the LAST thing we wanted was to give Calloo a freaking wide open 3

But we lost our poise at the end and it was like sharks seeing blood

When you don't have your leaders to stabilize the team and punch back things go south in a hurry, including at the FT line with the pressure up to 100

Wasn't able to watch the game so I recorded it. I haven't watched the game yet but I looked at the box score just now. Was surprised to see we took 14 fewer shots than OSU.

Not going to blame Fox entirely for this one. But they never adjusted to Calloo coming back into the game and left him open too many times on the pick-and-roll with Thompson. A couple of times Kelly just left him alone to cover Thompson and he hit every open 3. But Lars missed eight free throws, including two that would have tied the game late. Also, Cal is going to struggle to score without Matt or Anticevich and the only hope was Foreman shooting 3's and that became predictable.

What hurts Cal is Brown's lack of shooting. He's usually the fastest player on the floor but doesn't shoot well and doesn't hit free throws, so he isn't an offensive threat. It's a shame because he can get to the rack anytime he wants but he isn't a good finisher and won't hit free throws when he's fouled. The fact he's a 40 percent free throw shooter affects his aggressiveness and limits Cal offensively.

I see progress and they're playing better but this is a game they lost starting at about the 12-minute mark when they stopped scoring and then allowed OSU to get second-chance points.

I think the Bears played almost as well as they can tonight especially when Bradley was in the game in the first half. It's evident that Brown is an atrocious free throw shooter but I didn't realize how bad a free throw shooter Hyder would be (albeit with a small sample size). I thought that Lars was overachieving at the foul line earlier this season.. He seems to lack both focus and touch and I doubt he will be even a 50% shooter by the end of the season. Andre is the most disappointing to me so far this season though. He was around a 75% foul shooter last season and was really good at the end of games. Now he seems to be lacking focus and touch just like Lars.

I am not sure how long Bradley is going to be out but I don't believe that we will any conference games that he misses. I don't think Fox should get grief for how this conference season is going to go without his two best players. I think that he is a really good coach who needs to get a few more bullets in his gun. I like the players coming in next year especially the Bishop O'Dowd point guard. He is a special player. Really hoping the recruit from San Diego can get fully healthy because he will be a really good player as a freshman as well. KK has a really good looking 3 point shot and it was shame that both of his went in and out tonight. We really needed them to drop for us. I will continue to watch our basketball version of the Titanic this season because I enjoy watching player development and i think there will be some before the end of the year. Go Bears.

Every coach is better when their best players are on the floor. Coaches really earn their money when they have to do more with less. My beef is that the offense didn't do anything to create opportunities. At any given point we had Foreman and Betley on the floor. Both are good catch and shoot guys. Neither got good looks out of the O sets. That's just not good enough.

tequila4kapp said:

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Every coach is better when their best players are on the floor. Coaches really earn their money when they have to do more with less. My beef is that the offense didn't do anything to create opportunities. At any given point we had Foreman and Betley on the floor. Both are good catch and shoot guys. Neither got good looks out of the O sets. That's just not good enough.

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Fox is not really creative on offensive. That's not his strength. You better believe Monty would be getting looks for Betley and Foreman off screens. Also I don't understand that we didn't once go at Callou when he had 4 fouls. Coaching.

I believe Washington is the weakest of the teams we play from now on, and we'll be at home, so even without Matt and Grant, we have a chance.

Wazzu on the other hand I don't know. Kyle Smith has them playing high level ball. They nearly beat Arizona going down after 3 OTs for their first loss of the year.

regarding 2K's two close misses... the first thing I look at when I see a player who shoots well, but the balls rim out, I look at their shot arc.

hard to tell on TV, but I bet both shots go down if he increased his arc


regarding the missed FTs in that situation, it has as much to do with confidence under pressure than it does about FT shooting ability. that's why players like Tyrone Wallace hit most of his clutch FT shots despite being a poor FT shooting.

Neither Lars nor Brown are confident in their FT shot, and in that pressure situation they shot worse than their normal percent

tequila4kapp said:

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Every coach is better when their best players are on the floor. Coaches really earn their money when they have to do more with less. My beef is that the offense didn't do anything to create opportunities. At any given point we had Foreman and Betley on the floor. Both are good catch and shoot guys. Neither got good looks out of the O sets. That's just not good enough.

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Agree - Along with many of you who support the program, I have seen/observed the players and All are really respectful good young men. We now have their housing situation in great shape, wish we could put together the funds for a needed practice gym. Bottom line we currently need a more effective recruiting staff. We are the least athletic team in the conference and it hurts in many areas. The post play development though slightly better, is no where near what the team needs. The overall toughness is lacking, along with explosiveness and ability to create an open shot when the defense tightens up. To fairly assess the coach - a 3 year period should be given, however the trend thus far is not positive and not acceptable.

Only Foreman and Bradley can create their own shot. K2 , once in a great while. Brown sometimes.

When we beat Stanford in the conference tournament last March, the general consensus was that things were definitely looking up (a fair amount). Since then, as in, the very day after that, there have been a series of unfortunate circumstances, all the way through Bradley's injury yesterday. While every program has had to deal with the pandemic, it seems to be especially hard for a second-year coach with a number of second-year players.

While I'm not in the business of excuse-making, let's see what Fox can do over the next fourteen months. Coincidentally, that will be about the time we no longer need to pay buy-out money to Wyking Jones.

Referencing another thread, fans can see Cal Basketball as a glass 1/4 full, or 3/4 empty in the meantime. I personally prefer to remain optimistic, especially since we are still playing the hand that was dealt us. Being a Cal Football and Basketball fan has always been a passion centered around hope.

Big C said:

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When we beat Stanford in the conference tournament last March, the general consensus was that things were definitely looking up (a fair amount). Since then, as in, the very day after that, there have been a series of unfortunate circumstances, all the way through Bradley's injury yesterday. While every program has had to deal with the pandemic, it seems to be especially hard for a second-year coach with a number of second-year players.

While I'm not in the business of excuse-making, let's see what Fox can do over the next fourteen months. Coincidentally, that will be about the time we no longer need to pay buy-out money to Wyking Jones.

Referencing another thread, fans can see Cal Basketball as a glass 1/4 full, or 3/4 empty in the meantime. I personally prefer to remain optimistic, especially since we are still playing the hand that was dealt us. Being a Cal Football and Basketball fan has always been a passion centered around hope.

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Well put and I remain passionate and hopeful. We can and should be "competitive" in conference (defined as upper half consistenly and every few years right there for a conf title. There are hurdles which we all have chimed in ad nauseum: The city of Berkeley and the out of control homelessness (does impact parent's input in college selection sometimes, lack of a practice facility, academic constraints, donor funding support levels etc. All very valid and mostly pose more hurdles than our conference members.
Thus we need a staff that has a tireless, ethical, charismatic recruiter that relates to the quality prospect both on and off the court.
Next year's recruits have promise and we have to get the two key local HS studs at point and the post position. Right now its a tough sell with a 10-12th place team. Regardless i will always support the program with time, support and dollars.

calumnus said:

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4thGenCal said:

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Big C said:

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When we beat Stanford in the conference tournament last March, the general consensus was that things were definitely looking up (a fair amount). Since then, as in, the very day after that, there have been a series of unfortunate circumstances, all the way through Bradley's injury yesterday. While every program has had to deal with the pandemic, it seems to be especially hard for a second-year coach with a number of second-year players.

While I'm not in the business of excuse-making, let's see what Fox can do over the next fourteen months. Coincidentally, that will be about the time we no longer need to pay buy-out money to Wyking Jones.

Referencing another thread, fans can see Cal Basketball as a glass 1/4 full, or 3/4 empty in the meantime. I personally prefer to remain optimistic, especially since we are still playing the hand that was dealt us. Being a Cal Football and Basketball fan has always been a passion centered around hope.

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Well put and I remain passionate and hopeful. We can and should be "competitive" in conference (defined as upper half consistenly and every few years right there for a conf title. There are hurdles which we all have chimed in ad nauseum: The city of Berkeley and the out of control homelessness (does impact parent's input in college selection sometimes, lack of a practice facility, academic constraints, donor funding support levels etc. All very valid and mostly pose more hurdles than our conference members.
Thus we need a staff that has a tireless, ethical, charismatic recruiter that relates to the quality prospect both on and off the court.
Next year's recruits have promise and we have to get the two key local HS studs at point and the post position. Right now its a tough sell with a 10-12th place team. Regardless i will always support the program with time, support and dollars.

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Maybe an issue for some suburban and rural recruits, but I doubt any recruit from LA, Oakland, Seattle or any big city thinks the "city of Berkeley" or "homelessness" is a reason not to go to Cal since most major cities have it worse. In fact for many (Jaylen Brown, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitski, Shareef Abdul Rahim, Jason Kidd....) Cal's location In Berkeley and/or progressive reputation and the campus vibe was a MAJOR selling point. LeBron still visits Berkeley when he is in town.

You might be surprised at the depth of commitment to social activism among young people these days. Note that for most NBA players, the Black Lives Matter movement is incredibly positive. Honestly, if our "leaders" loved our history, reputation and urban reality as much as the kids do, they could do a much better job selling it to recruits, many of whom are looking for exactly what we have to offer.

The biggest detriment Cal has for top recruits is that they don't just want to go to a "cool" location, they want to play in front of crowds, play in the NCAA Tournament and go to the NBA. Cal just doesn't offer much prospect of that right now. This is why people saying having a practice facility, or just a place the players can go to shoot around at will, seems reasonable. The other issue, the time requirement due to academic load, will always be there, but for a few (Shareef, Jaylen Brown) that was a plus too.

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No doubt its a combination of the factors u and i mentioned and with emphasis on likelihood to play in the tournament, large crowds of support, absence of a practice facility and the fairly heavy academic load (minimal light load classes and stiff peer competition as well). My comment about Berkeley and homelessness was not perception based - its based on what 2 separate parents (urban based) mentioned as a factor in choosing competing Conf schools (granted within past 5 years so hardly an alarming pattern). Over the past year homelessness/street people trespassing/crime has occurred at the Housing site of the players and has concerned both players and a parent. This has been addressed with prompt action and we believe with diligent weekly observation the situation is much safer now. Safety of the young adults is an factor that parents take notice of.
But yes a winning program and thus the advantage of increased exposure is at the top of recruits list.

Hyder had a very good stat line . This is encouraging.

helltopay1 said:

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Hyder had a very good stat line . This is encouraging.

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According to the advanced stats, Hyder is our best player.

I'd go with
Foreman
Hyder
Kuany
Thorpe
Kelly
With Lars, Betely and Brown off the bench.