Is it time to expand the playbook?

1,154 Views | 16 Replies | Last: 26 days ago by RedlessWardrobe
RedlessWardrobe
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23 games into the season, and a 19-4 record is hard to find much fault with. And yes, yesterday was a 31 point against a conference opponent, (although not a very good one.) But despite all of this, as the games pile up it feels like the book is out for opposing teams on how to go about defending our half court offense. Because of our 3 point success, teams (especially in recent games) are extending on us more and more, making it a point to do everything they can in order to keep Ioanna and Lulu from getting open three point looks. It's becoming almost impossible for Ioanna to get off a 3 point shot off of a ball screen. Most of her threes are a result of transition offense or offensive rebound kickouts. Same goes for Lulu. As a result, our over the top lobs into Michelle and Marta's play inside are becoming more and more crucial in determining our success.

I'm not a coach (Clay is, right? Maybe he can chime in.) But it feels like we've hit that point of the season in which it might be time for Charmin to add some new offensive sets, or some additional options off the stuff we're already running. Something extra for opponents to think about. I also suggest this because in most occasions the players we have this year appear to be very intelligent and very coachable. I would think they could handle a little bit more added to our offensive repertoire. I would think this would be about the right time of the season to do this. Not sure if what I'm thinking is reasonable, but I'm wondering if anybody else here is having the same gut feelings that I am. I would really appreciate responses/comments here, both pro and con.

wvitbear
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When do they have time to do this. On the road the next 5 days. I think that by going to Michele and Marta, they are doing this. And if Michele can stay in the game it might work. I don't think Lulu going to her left will happen over night.
RedlessWardrobe
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wvitbear said:

When do they have time to do this. On the road the next 5 days. I think that by going to Michele and Marta, they are doing this. And if Michele can stay in the game it might work. I don't think Lulu going to her left will happen over night.
The team practices every day. I don't see why adding at least one new option causes a time problem. And with all due respect, I was talking about something new as a team, nothing about "Lulu going to her left", which is an individual player issue.
HoopDreams
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I think all college coaches work on new actions, plays, options every week
annarborbear
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I would spend most of the prep time thinking about the defensive end based on what they see in the Louisville tapes and on how to handle full court pressure if it comes. (Walz put a press on us all the way back in the second half of the 2013 Final Four, and we couldn't handle it then.)
RedlessWardrobe
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HoopDreams said:

I think all college coaches work on new actions, plays, options every week
I agree with you. But it seems like we're running the same stuff. Again, I'm not a coach so there's a definite chance I missed it. Just hope that we see something new.
HoopDreams
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2 games ago I actually saw a guard attempting a pick n roll pass to Mady

Unfortunately one was a bounce pass at his knees resulting in a turnover

One was a over the top pass that resulted in an easy layup

Then there was a third successful PnR by Rytis I think it was a pocket pass

I don't remember any attempts last game which makes sense as it was against a zone

I know coaches have been trying to install this since the pre-season but I don't think our players are good at it

Last season Aimaq and Tyson ran it all day and all night

RedlessWardrobe said:

HoopDreams said:

I think all college coaches work on new actions, plays, options every week
I agree with you. But it seems like we're running the same stuff. Again, I'm not a coach so there's a definite chance I missed it. Just hope that we see something new.
RedlessWardrobe
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HoopDreams said:

2 games ago I actually saw a guard attempting a pick n roll pass to Mady

Unfortunately one was a bounce pass at his knees resulting in a turnover

One was a over the top pass that resulted in an easy layup

Then there was a third successful PnR by Rytis I think it was a pocket pass

I don't remember any attempts last game which makes sense as it was against a zone

I know coaches have been trying to install this since the pre-season but I don't think our players are good at it

Last season Aimaq and Tyson ran it all day and all night

RedlessWardrobe said:

HoopDreams said:

I think all college coaches work on new actions, plays, options every week
I agree with you. But it seems like we're running the same stuff. Again, I'm not a coach so there's a definite chance I missed it. Just hope that we see something new.

Uh, Hoop Dreams, accurate points, but this is the women's board (I think.)
ClayK
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It's a tough time of year. Teams have done some serious scouting by now, and players' strengths and weaknesses are obvious to all.

So yes, you could add a wrinkle but the player has to be able to execute it. (For example, some players can shoot threes and go right but really can't go left. You can add something that makes her go left, but if she can't execute, the play doesn't matter.)

Also, part of coaching is anticipating adjustments. So we play a team tonight we played a couple weeks ago. We took away something they do offensively, so I'm assuming they'll counter our adjustment -- which means we're going to try to be ready for the counter. And since we did well against their 1-3-1, I don't expect to see that.

Yes, it sounds simple to "put in some options" and "change things up," but things are never as simple as they seem. And you can look at it this way too: We're ranked in the top 25 doing what we do -- and now you want us to do something else?
RedlessWardrobe
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ClayK said:

It's a tough time of year. Teams have done some serious scouting by now, and players' strengths and weaknesses are obvious to all.

So yes, you could add a wrinkle but the player has to be able to execute it. (For example, some players can shoot threes and go right but really can't go left. You can add something that makes her go left, but if she can't execute, the play doesn't matter.)

Also, part of coaching is anticipating adjustments. So we play a team tonight we played a couple weeks ago. We took away something they do offensively, so I'm assuming they'll counter our adjustment -- which means we're going to try to be ready for the counter. And since we did well against their 1-3-1, I don't expect to see that.

Yes, it sounds simple to "put in some options" and "change things up," but things are never as simple as they seem. And you can look at it this way too: We're ranked in the top 25 doing what we do -- and now you want us to do something else?
Thanks for your input Clay. No, by no means did I suggest that we start to "do something else", my suggestion was at this point we add another offensive rotation to the playbook in order to diversify what we do. Some additional wrinkle that my help us compete with teams like Louisville and Georgia Tech (not sure if anything will help against Notre Dame.) For me, the Duke and UNC games sent a message that our ceiling is limited. And again, not sure why I'm getting the "player goes left" response. That was someone else's reference to Lulu, not mine. I'm just referring to a new wrinkle, and I really think this year's players would be able to learn quickly. Not an overhaul, just a little something more.
wvitbear
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I questioned whether Lulu could go left this year. i think she needs to work on that in the off season. Kelsey Plum used to go left all the time but she learned that when she went right ashe would do a pivot and go left again. My Lulu point was that you are limited in what can put into the system as your players may not be able to do it.

I personally think that travel has a lot to do with it. No one answered my question about which day the team travels back for their Thursday game.
HoopDreams
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Agree with this

But to clarify my points, I said add an action, option or play…

We would build on a play by adding a new option, so over the season the players would learn the full play.

We would also add out of bounds plays, especially because teams scout those

ClayK said:

It's a tough time of year. Teams have done some serious scouting by now, and players' strengths and weaknesses are obvious to all.

So yes, you could add a wrinkle but the player has to be able to execute it. (For example, some players can shoot threes and go right but really can't go left. You can add something that makes her go left, but if she can't execute, the play doesn't matter.)

Also, part of coaching is anticipating adjustments. So we play a team tonight we played a couple weeks ago. We took away something they do offensively, so I'm assuming they'll counter our adjustment -- which means we're going to try to be ready for the counter. And since we did well against their 1-3-1, I don't expect to see that.

Yes, it sounds simple to "put in some options" and "change things up," but things are never as simple as they seem. And you can look at it this way too: We're ranked in the top 25 doing what we do -- and now you want us to do something else?
RedlessWardrobe
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wvitbear said:

I questioned whether Lulu could go left this year. i think she needs to work on that in the off season. Kelsey Plum used to go left all the time but she learned that when she went right ashe would do a pivot and go left again. My Lulu point was that you are limited in what can put into the system as your players may not be able to do it.

I personally think that travel has a lot to do with it. No one answered my question about which day the team travels back for their Thursday game.
I completely agree that Lulu's handle going left needs work. But there are certainly additional options that you can use that are NOT dependent on Lulu going left.

To your point about travel I also agree that it limits the time to work on something new. But working on a new option could have easily been done last week when the team was home and had a 7 day layoff after the Furd game. I'm just fearful that Louisville will basically know everything we do before we do it. If I'm mistaken, I will GLADLY admit it.
ClayK
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I wasn't referring to Lulu directly as few players are the complete package. You can force them to do what they do relatively poorly.

I also think there's an overemphasis on plays and motions and strategy. Yes, they're helpful, but the key is to have good players who are effective against other good players -- that is, they can do what they do (score, rebound, defend) in almost all situations.

Also, remember that once you run a play, the other coach knows what it is and will react. If you add an option going into a game, it might work once, could work twice but won't be any better than what you already have after that.

RedlessWardrobe
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ClayK said:

I wasn't referring to Lulu directly as few players are the complete package. You can force them to do what they do relatively poorly.

I also think there's an overemphasis on plays and motions and strategy. Yes, they're helpful, but the key is to have good players who are effective against other good players -- that is, they can do what they do (score, rebound, defend) in almost all situations.

Also, remember that once you run a play, the other coach knows what it is and will react
. If you add an option going into a game, it might work once, could work twice but won't be any better than what you already have after that.


Honestly Clay, that's the whole point of my post. As we run the same rotations we've run in previous games, the opposing coaches will have ALREADY prepared for it. So how about running something a bit different a few times? And, sure the key is to have good players who are effective against other good players, but at this point if that's how it's going to be approached then it really sounds like the effect of any before game strategy becomes almost irrelevant. I hate to be negative, but there's NO WAY we beat Notre Dame if the mindset is, that our players have to be good against other players. Pretty sure that won't be happening.
wvitbear
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One more thing. We have scouted our opponent too. We spend a lot of practice defensing them. That doesn't leave a lot of time for new offense. But we can practice the mistakes we have been making on say turnovers.

From watching practices, there are plays we haven't used much. Plus we practice our 1-3-1 zone and it has gotten better. We always use Jayda at the top but we don't use it for long as the other team will eventually pick it apart.
RedlessWardrobe
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wvitbear said:

One more thing. We have scouted our opponent too. We spend a lot of practice defensing them. That doesn't leave a lot of time for new offense. But we can practice the mistakes we have been making on say turnovers.

From watching practices, there are plays we haven't used much. Plus we practice our 1-3-1 zone and it has gotten better. We always use Jayda at the top but we don't use it for long as the other team will eventually pick it apart.
Sorry for not letting this go, but I never suggested "new offense." Just some add ons. Big difference.
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