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Please stop! This thread is supposed to be about Marta, who is from Spain, not politics from America.

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Relax. The political stuff will die it out of its own volition. Meanwhile just skip posts you don't like. There have been some silly arguments on this forum and I've founded easy enough to ignore them and focus on comments that interest me.

Pay her $75,000, which puts her near the top of the.WNBA rookie salaries.

Her money will be made in Europe. She's not a WNBA-level player.

And she might make more than $75,000 in Europe.

Maybe after another year at Cal she might be a WNBA level player.

clay, there's zero chance marta will make US dollars 75,000 in a minor league women's euro league

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I love what Charmin has done with this team, but my one criticism has been the propensity to not give some of the younger players more playing time. The obvious example is to have allowed Abigor, who is a talented player, to play more earlier in games for two reasons:

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I agree completely. Zahara in particular could have used more minutes. Charmin tends to wait too long to sub after building a big lead. I've noticed over the years that veteran coaches use their benches more. I wonder if this is a matter of confidence in yourself as a coach. When I coached (soccer) I trusted my bench players more and more as I got older.

Sofia Bowes is a preferred walk-on. It will be up to her whether or not she chooses to return.

Shocky1 said:

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clay, there's zero chance marta will make US dollars 75,000 in a minor league women's euro league

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You know, of course, that Euro salaries are much higher than WNBA salaries, and that the only reason many players play in the W is to have a good year and up their salaries overseas.

Diana Taurasi was paid $500,000 to play in Russia when she was making $125,000 in the W. A WNBA starter generally makes about double her W salary in Europe.

And yes, the WNBA has more talent than European leagues, but due to subsidies and a different financial structure, the money in women's basketball is overseas. So the W is a major league in talent, but the Euro is the major league in money.

ClayK said:

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Shocky1 said:

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clay, there's zero chance marta will make US dollars 75,000 in a minor league women's euro league

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You know, of course, that Euro salaries are much higher than WNBA salaries, and that the only reason many players play in the W is to have a good year and up their salaries overseas.

Diana Taurasi was paid $500,000 to play in Russia when she was making $125,000 in the W. A WNBA starter generally makes about double her W salary in Europe.

And yes, the WNBA has more talent than European leagues, but due to subsidies and a different financial structure, the money in women's basketball is overseas. So the W is a major league in talent, but the Euro is the major league in money.

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I thought the new TV deal changed this for the WNBA?

Finnish Oski said:

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I love what Charmin has done with this team, but my one criticism has been the propensity to not give some of the younger players more playing time. The obvious example is to have allowed Abigor, who is a talented player, to play more earlier in games for two reasons:

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I agree completely. Zahara in particular could have used more minutes. Charmin tends to wait too long to sub after building a big lead. I've noticed over the years that veteran coaches use their benches more. I wonder if this is a matter of confidence in yourself as a coach. When I coached (soccer) I trusted my bench players more and more as I got older.

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I have asked big time coaches(including a late Hall of Famer) about this (didn't ask Charmin)....usually comes down to "so you want so and so on the court/field over so so" and most of the time you can't answer yes.
The "with a big lead": again, this is a fan thing, not a coach thing. Coaches are waaaay conservative on this issue-pick a sport, a time, a place, and the coaches will have starters still in way past what some of us think, including the biggest event of all, the recent Super Bowl.
The idea that every and all freshmen are going to be ready, that they don't need time to develop is also a fan thing, not a coach thing-Cooper Flagg plays because he is ready to. And if it's not a "freshman/youth" thing, there can be a drop off issue-I don't disagree with the "Abigor is going to be good" theory, but who really wanted to play Michelle less??! OR fine, who you sitting if you were doing Abigor and Michelle together, (which wasn't really in play, but again, to humor the issue, I ask the question.)
"Oh but they would be better with more rest" is certainly not the case with every starter, and for basketball in particular, that was worried about way too much here-I laugh about minutes played vs. the AAU schedule they grew up with, or the playing all day literally in the gym...I did that with some of the women's hoops players, and that was a very long time ago-everything about conditioning, nutrition and overall body health is so much better now. But fine, yeah, depth is never a bad thing, but it doesn't happen just because you give someone more minutes...there can be a risk/reward to this going on....

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I have asked big time coaches(including a late Hall of Famer) about this (didn't ask Charmin)....usually comes down to "so you want so and so on the court/field over so so" and most of the time you can't answer yes.

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I've read this paragraph several times and can't make heads or tails of if although I get that you've talked to "big time coaches. In any case you're right that some coaches are very conservative. Others aren't. I think when you don't put reserves in when you've got a 25 point lead with four minutes to go you're telling those players, "if I put you in you might blow this huge lead." Finding minutes for players builds their confidence. One "big time" coach I talked to said that you might lose a game early in the season by using a reserve player too early in a game, but that player's experience that day may help you win a game later in the season when you really need it.

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"Oh but they would be better with more rest" is certainly not the case with every starter, and for basketball in particular, that was worried about way too much here-I laugh about minutes played vs. the AAU schedule they grew up with, or the playing all day literally in the gym..

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I also couldn't make sense of this. Maybe proofread before you post.

Kayla's returning?!

one factor about putting subs in games is the NET ranking. Beating (or losing) by 10+ impacts your net ranking

unfortunately some of Cal's wins were by 9

BearBint-where did you see or hear that about Kayla Williams? Her freshman season was Covid-19 year, but she has already played a 5th extra season. I don't see how it's possible but I'm open to it happening.

Finnish Oski said:

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I have asked big time coaches(including a late Hall of Famer) about this (didn't ask Charmin)....usually comes down to "so you want so and so on the court/field over so so" and most of the time you can't answer yes.

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I've read this paragraph several times and can't make heads or tails of if although I get that you've talked to "big time coaches. In any case you're right that some coaches are very conservative. Others aren't. I think when you don't put reserves in when you've got a 25 point lead with four minutes to go you're telling those players, "if I put you in you might blow this huge lead." Finding minutes for players builds their confidence. One "big time" coach I talked to said that you might lose a game early in the season by using a reserve player too early in a game, but that player's experience that day may help you win a game later in the season when you really need it.

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"Oh but they would be better with more rest" is certainly not the case with every starter, and for basketball in particular, that was worried about way too much here-I laugh about minutes played vs. the AAU schedule they grew up with, or the playing all day literally in the gym..

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I also couldn't make sense of this. Maybe proofread before you post.

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An argument was made in this forum several times that the players were tired from too many minutes. I was saying it was way overstated, worried about more than necessary.
As to my "neither heads or tails" first part:
fan: "hey play so and so more."
coach: "and sit who? Are we a better team with so and so on the court vs the starter "?
Okay, better?
Bench players come in all level of experiences and developed talent, obviously. Are they months away, or a year away from contributing? Are they a very slight drop off, so getting them 20-25 minutes off the bench is a great rotation? I suggest your coach is talking about a player who they believed from the get-go could help really soon...fair?
I don't believe fans know what coaches are seeing in practice to be able to say "I don't know why she didn't play her more." Just my opinion.
I get that it was important to call me out on referencing "big time coaches." That's fine, and I didn't mean to come across as being "elitist" in some way. I have been fortunate in my experiences, and my opinions molded (okay, shot down lol) by some of these folks... failed citation by me obviously.
I think some of these philosophical questions could be asked of Charmin by those who go to the invited events...we know she will be around awhile.

It looks like Bearbint asked if Kayla was returning in reference to Calbear93 commenting about Coach Smith playing Zahra more (NOW during the rest of the season to spell Kayla -- not that Kayla was returning next year)

From my experience, playing a young player for a couple minutes at the end of a blowout doesn't really mean much in terms of development. It's nice to reward the player for the practice time, meetings, etc., but really, learning to function in pressure situations is what players need -- and I don't think many coaches are going to put a borderline player in a pressure situation to "develop her."

I've seen situations where a coach will put a bench player in at the end of a quarter to defend and make sure the starter doesn't get another foul. That bench player makes a mistake on an assignment and the other team scores -- and the final margin was two points.

The first thing a bench player has to do is play well in practice, making the starters work hard. That might get you into the bottom of the rotation. Then you get into a close game in the first half, and you have to be mentally on point, make no mistakes and maybe make a good play (surrounded by starters on both sides). That might earn some minutes in the third quarter of a close game. And so on ...

Playing the other team's subs in the last three minutes of a 20-point game doesn't reveal much. Practice is where you prove you deserve some rotation minutes.

mbBear said:

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Finnish Oski said:

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I love what Charmin has done with this team, but my one criticism has been the propensity to not give some of the younger players more playing time. The obvious example is to have allowed Abigor, who is a talented player, to play more earlier in games for two reasons:

---

I agree completely. Zahara in particular could have used more minutes. Charmin tends to wait too long to sub after building a big lead. I've noticed over the years that veteran coaches use their benches more. I wonder if this is a matter of confidence in yourself as a coach. When I coached (soccer) I trusted my bench players more and more as I got older.

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I have asked big time coaches(including a late Hall of Famer) about this (didn't ask Charmin)....usually comes down to "so you want so and so on the court/field over so so" and most of the time you can't answer yes.
The "with a big lead": again, this is a fan thing, not a coach thing. Coaches are waaaay conservative on this issue-pick a sport, a time, a place, and the coaches will have starters still in way past what some of us think, including the biggest event of all, the recent Super Bowl.
The idea that every and all freshmen are going to be ready, that they don't need time to develop is also a fan thing, not a coach thing-Cooper Flagg plays because he is ready to. And if it's not a "freshman/youth" thing, there can be a drop off issue-I don't disagree with the "Abigor is going to be good" theory, but who really wanted to play Michelle less??! OR fine, who you sitting if you were doing Abigor and Michelle together, (which wasn't really in play, but again, to humor the issue, I ask the question.)
"Oh but they would be better with more rest" is certainly not the case with every starter, and for basketball in particular, that was worried about way too much here-I laugh about minutes played vs. the AAU schedule they grew up with, or the playing all day literally in the gym...I did that with some of the women's hoops players, and that was a very long time ago-everything about conditioning, nutrition and overall body health is so much better now. But fine, yeah, depth is never a bad thing, but it doesn't happen just because you give someone more minutes...there can be a risk/reward to this going on....

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As I said, I am a Charming fan and I believe she does a good job overall. Very happy for her success this year. I'm also not a professional basketball coach, but I have coached at the high school level in baseball and football and as a coach I know that players need to be developed. I have several examples of players who are now playing in the NFL or MLB who had to be developed before they could hit their full potential.

All 15 players on the roster were recruited by Charmin because she felt they had the ability to play the game. We all understand that going from high school to college competition is a huge jump and young players usually have to learn how to play at the next level and that comes with time. Very few of them have the ability as freshman that Cooper Flagg or Jeremiah Wilkinson have demonstrated this year. Certainly practice helps develop the needed skills to become a starter and not every player is going to be a starter and only 5 players can be on the court at the same time.

But I also believe that players need to play and put into some game situations in order to learn to compete at this level. The Cal women had 9 games that they won by 19 or more points and in the first 5 games of the year the margin of victory was between 21 - 50 points. I know that a coaches job is to win, but they also have an obligation to develop players so their team can be more competitive as the season progresses. Having "experienced" depth later in the season or in a post season tournament can be invaluable if & when you need help off the bench.

I don't think a coach should make wholesale changes just for change sake, but should be evaluating where help is needed most. On this year's team Michelle Onyiah is/was definitely a strength as a 5th year senior. That said, her weakness is that she is foul prone & she often picks up early fouls which leads to her having to sit on the bench at important times in the game. Knowing that is an issue, inserting a player like Abigor who is a talented freshman, would have been a good way to help her develop while protecting Onyiah from having to sit late in a game because of foul trouble. Not talking about long runs, but inserting Abigor for 10 - 12 minutes a game could help.

I think the same can be said for Kayla Williams, not because she's foul prone, but because it takes a lot of energy to run the point all game long. Although I understand these players are in great shape, even the best can use a couple of minutes rest 1-3 times a game to make sure they continue to play at their peak when on the floor.

Using and developing depth is part of the equation of building an effective team, not only for this season but for seasons ahead. If I'm a talented high school senior, I want to know that I'm going to have the chance to play and develop if I come to your school.

Just my two cents and I understand that coaches need to run their teams as they see fit, but there is a range of strategies here and I believe it's important to win now while also building to win in the year(s) ahead.

Go Bears!

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From my experience, playing a young player for a couple minutes at the end of a blowout doesn't really mean much in terms of development.

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Maybe not but it means a helluva lot to the player. And it does them more good than sitting on the bench.

There is always injuries and if you don't "prep" a bench player enough they may get into a game unable to really contribute during critical times. This is especially true for teams anticipating a late season run. Playing tournament games on consecutive days mean all starters will wear down and need subs more often and for longer.

Not all bench players should be painted with the same broad brush and considerered to be inferior than a starter. There is big difference in talent between a 5 star freshman and a walkon senior that just fills the roster. Coaches tends to be conservative and plays the ones who they "trust" even tho they may not be the most talented and makes just as much errors as the freshman.

The issue about Gabi's minutes this year really had nothing to do with taking Michelle out. Reality was with Michelle's foul issues, quite often Charmin would still go with either Marta at the post, or sometimes use Tali. I'm not criticizing Charmin, she's with this group every day and did a great job, but there was definitely more minutes available for Gabi if Charmin wanted to use her more often.

mbBear said:

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Schroeder71 said:

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Uncertainty is what is happening with the stock market extreme volatility that everyone is experiencing right now.
I believe in Trump's plan and policies but they haven't been put in place yet. When people can't see it, they tend to believe that "the sky is falling."

You're correct that Charmin may be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat but only time will tell. Suarez really needs to return to give Cal two double-digit scorers as a base to build upon. Also, Suarez will give the Bears one post player that the team can plan around...The head coach doesn't need to bring in quite so many guards and concentrate more on a couple of frontline players to help balance the team.

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Good to know you aren't pro choice and anti gay marriage. But no one ****ing cares....
Spare me the "I know the ACC"... just like those who picked Cal 14th? You have no idea about transfers ..

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I know the ACC too S71. I know that we're kicking their ass in softball and we did kick their ass in gymnastics going undefeated. Blew them out of the water in men's swimming too.

Finnish Oski said:

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Uncertainty is what is happening with the stock market extreme volatility that everyone is experiencing right now.

I believe in Trump's plan and policies but they haven't been put in place yet. When people can't see it, they tend to believe that "the sky is falling."

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Let's keep politics and especially references to that racist, narcissistic, whining, lying, insensitive, ignorant blowhard off this forum. This is an escape from the decline and fall of the American empire.

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Wow finish you're being pretty tough on S71. Seems like he canceled himself pretty thoroughly on the womans hoops board.

I think she also has to get stronger.