Valkyrie's Offense

971 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 54 min ago by stu
annarborbear
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The Vakaries would be a great offensive system to look to emulate. High assists, low TO's, constant ball movement, great mix of inside and outside games.
stu
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I like the low TO part. Is that from finding low TO players or running low TO schemes or something else?
Woodacre
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Let's just say the name Veronica Burton…perhaps she has a year of eligibility left and would like to play for Cal (jk, of course) She finished with 13 points, 12 assists and 0 turnovers, the third time she's had a points-assists double-double without a giveaway over the last two seasons. Only three other WNBA players have had three 10/10/0 games in their careers, including playoffs, and they're all among the best point guards ever: Sue Bird (five such games), Ticha Penicheiro and Courtney Vandersloot (three each)
SFCALBear72
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Charmin has a courtside seat, I believe. Perhaps she's been taking "notes" on what she's seeing on the court.

Cal WBB players will be back for summer workouts in June.
annarborbear
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Woodacre said:

Let's just say the name Veronica Burton…perhaps she has a year of eligibility left and would like to play for Cal (jk, of course) She finished with 13 points, 12 assists and 0 turnovers, the third time she's had a points-assists double-double without a giveaway over the last two seasons. Only three other WNBA players have had three 10/10/0 games in their careers, including playoffs, and they're all among the best point guards ever: Sue Bird (five such games), Ticha Penicheiro and Courtney Vandersloot (three each)

Burton is terrific. But everyone else is passing the ball as well. No dribbling around. No staring into the post. It is also fun to watch. However, I would also settle for Columbia's system.

Also, Burton was cut by Dallas after two years, and then let go by Connecticut in the expansion draft. So I think that the Valkyries coaching and system is bringing out the best in her.
RedlessWardrobe
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Since we're talking WNBA I've caught a few games. Evidently the league said they were going to call the games tighter to cut down the rugby effect, and it seems they have done so. The games I watched were much more enjoyable now, less hands on defense. Anyone else notice it?
HoopDreams
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Does that mean they might actually call a charge on Angel Reece?

RedlessWardrobe said:

Since we're talking WNBA I've caught a few games. Evidently the league said they were going to call the games tighter to cut down the rugby effect, and it seems they have done so. The games I watched were much more enjoyable now, less hands on defense. Anyone else notice it?
gljone
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During Burton's postgame comments, she mentioned (in the half court) she looks to break the paint first and foremost then look for shooters. If the defense does not sag, she will look to finish.

Couple that with the shooters the Valkyries have and that is a good formula.

I also believe that these are types of players you should recruit (Cal) or sign (GSV).

It leads to many catch-and-shoot 3s and 3FG% goes up.

I'm pretty sure the GSV staff has looked at the GSW system and has taken pieces from that.

But it all starts with the defense and the rebound.
HoopDreams
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gljone said:

During Burton's postgame comments, she mentioned (in the half court) she looks to break the paint first and foremost then look for shooters. If the defense does not sag, she will look to finish.

Couple that with the shooters the Valkyries have and that is a good formula.

I also believe that these are types of players you should recruit (Cal) or sign (GSV).

It leads to many catch-and-shoot 3s and 3FG% goes up.

I'm pretty sure the GSV staff has looked at the GSW system and has taken pieces from that.

But it all starts with the defense and the rebound.

penetrate and kick is certainly not a coaching secret ... it's used by just about every coach to some extent that has outside shooting
ClayK
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One of the absolutely hardest things to teach as a basketball coach is passing.

First, it starts with vision of the court -- the ability to see, or know, where multiple players are on the court all at once. This is part of the processing issue that separates elite players from physically talented ones.

Next, once you see the court, you have to immediately decide what the best option is, given the situation. That situation, of course, is complicated by defensive reactions, which are a) part of the defensive scheme that's unique to every team, and b) the individual abilities of the defenders, which was noted in the scouting report.

Then and only then does the physical ability to deliver a pass come into play. But that too is a processing issue,, as the execution has to be immediate.

Elite passers, like Burton and Draymond Green, not only analyze the situation as it is, but what it will be in two passes -- assuming that the next player with the ball can make the right decision.

Players who can operate at this level, who have that rare combination of processing speed and passing skills, are extremely valuable and hard to find. It's easy to say "Oh, Charmin should get more of those," but that's like saying "Oh, Charmin should just recruit Kaleena Smith." Or like saying "Charmin should teach that," which is like saying "My kid's piano teacher should teach her to wind up in the San Francisco Symphony orchestra."

Now certain skills can be taught, and certain schemes can be implemented, that limit turnovers, but most of them slow the pace and often make it harder to score because the slower pace gives the defense more time to react.
wvitbear
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The Warriors almost led the league in turnovers when they won the NBA championship. Kerr has a lot of fast passing and that creates turnovers. Buit creates a a lot of points too.
annarborbear
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Good to know that coaching has nothing to do with the outcome of any of these games or the development of any of these players.
annarborbear
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I have previously posted the key TO number for our team - Points Given Up Off of Turnovers. Against good teams, that is frequently the losing scoring margin for us in those games. If the Warriors were giving up double digits in Points Off of Turnovers versus their opponents. they would also not have had the same record.
CalWSportsFan
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VB's 12 assists with zero TOs was glorious. Gabby Williams seems to have found her groove and is such a threat in so many ways too. Needless to say the entire team was a joy to watch. Just Jocyt is arriving this week only adding to the talent.
ClayK
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annarborbear said:

Good to know that coaching has nothing to do with the outcome of any of these games or the development of any of these players.

Coaching has a lot to do with it -- beginning and pretty much ending with recruiting, recruiting and more recruiting.

Institutional support has a lot to do with it -- facilities, mainly, but also the administration's willingness to remove roadblocks.

But recruiting, recruiting and recruiting. You win with talent. When two teams have equal talent, coaching matters a lot. For the most part, though, the team with a significant edge in talent is going to win most of the games.

annarborbear
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Went back and looked. The Warriors have consistently had a yearly positive Assist/TO ratio of around 2.0.

In Charmin's seven years, her teams have had a positive Assist/TO ratio only twice. And the highest was 1.05.

In our best season under Charmin, we put up 5 assists and 24 TO's in our NCAA tournament game against Mississippi State. And in a must-win game this past season, we had 5 TO's in the first five minutes against Syracuse, and then 10 in the first quarter.

Yes, recruiting is important. But we obviously have bigger problems than most teams.

And if you do not admit that you have a problem, you will never solve the problem.
annarborbear
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Here are the Points Off of Turnovers numbers from key games this past year that I have posted before. We are spotting good teams a winning margin before we have even taken the court:

Points Off of Turnovers

Vandy 19, Cal 13

Auburn 19, Cal 13

Syracuse (1) 27, Cal 17

North Carolina 19, Cal 13

NC State 23, Cal 7

Duke 24, Cal 13

Va Tech 22, Cal 15

Miami 12, Cal 5

Clemson 24, Cal 13

Syracuse (2) 20, Cal 15
ClayK
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This is great data, and an important point -- but I would love to see a comparison to other college programs at Cal's level.

The biggest difference between the men's and women's game is, and always has been, ballhandling. People talk about dunks, but they are immaterial.

If you strip off the names and teams from college box scores and team stats, you can always tell the women's games and stats by looking at the A/TO. Men are much better at handling the ball and making decisions, and that has been a constant in the sport.

My theory has always been that guys play pickup and girls only practice and play, but I was told by a high school coach that that's no longer as true as it once was. Still, girls never play pickup down at the park, or wherever, but sometimes young guys will.

Otherwise, I have no explanation.

All that said, if Cal's A/TO is consistently worse than similar college women's programs, then there's a problem with the scheme or the talent or the direction the coaches are giving players. The best way, of course, to limit turnovers is to slow the pace of the game and take fewer risks. But the result of that is often forced shots -- but still, that might be something Charmin has to look at.

And recruiting better passers -- which means players who can process quickly on the court -- maybe should be a priority. But great passers are hard to find in the girls' and women's game, so the competition is fierce.

HoopDreams
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I never contemplated the thought that playing pickup in any way contributes to the difference between men and women's hoops.

I think about the difference between men's and women's game is that the the women play a more fundamental

In pickup I'm always weary when a woman steps on the court because they are always have good fundamental skills of handling, passing and shooting

Most pickup guys just iso, make a single pass, over dribble, and don't move without the ball

stu
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Quote:

In pickup I'm always weary when a woman steps on the court because they are always have good fundamental skills of handling, passing and shooting

Did you mean wary? If she's good you might be weary by the time she steps off.
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