dan1997 said:

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Stu Gordon will not allow baseball to be cut.

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Baseball has not won a conference title in over 66 years. Does Gordon know that. Does he Donate $ just so he can hang around the practices with the guys?

Ccajon2 said:

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CalFanatic said:

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Me thinks we are going to the ACC, no?

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Funny how nobody on this board ever mentioned one word about ACC until about a week ago, then all of a sudden, they are our new best friend throwing us a lifeline-NOT! Thank the Lord there are some cooler heads over there saying NO! As those Clemson fans like to say: we don't need another bottom feeder FB program feeding off us.

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Cajon - What do you propose then?

juarezbear said:

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Ccajon2 said:

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CalFanatic said:

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Me thinks we are going to the ACC, no?

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Funny how nobody on this board ever mentioned one word about ACC until about a week ago, then all of a sudden, they are our new best friend throwing us a lifeline-NOT! Thank the Lord there are some cooler heads over there saying NO! As those Clemson fans like to say: we don't need another bottom feeder FB program feeding off us.

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Cajon - What do you propose then?

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Invite the MWC to merge into the remaining P-12. Or try to join the AAC.

Jeff82 said:

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BayAreaClubCoach said:

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Thanks for informing me better. My point is that hard decisions are going to be made and it's going to piss a lot of interest groups off…but now it's coming. 100%. Even considering if the ACC let's us beg our way in, the travel expenses alone and TV money won't even come close to the other Power Conferences. So considering the endowed sports, football reality and increased Title IX scrutiny, my updated proposal for the restructured athletic department is:
Keep -
Men's Football
Men's Basketball
Men's Golf
Men's Rowing
Men's Water Polo
Men's Swimming and Diving
(Because the NCAA minimum is 6 men's sports)
Women's Basketball
Women's Golf
Women's Crew
Women's Water Polo
Women's Swimming and Diving
Women's Gymnastics
Women's Volleyball
Women's Track and Field (indoor and outdoor) and women's cross country

That keeps the endowed sports, successful women's sports (even if barely anyone competes in the sport), politically impossible sports to cut, and should satisfy Title IX requirements given football (13 women's sports with a distance focused track squad counting those women 3 times and not needing a track).

Cut everyone else. This allows us to turn Edwards and the baseball complex, tennis complex & the fields above/around Memorial and Clark Kerr into student housing and shed dead weight. I'm sure I'm still pissing other sports interests off (sorry Tennis)…but the latest reports are indicating the ACC does not want us. We will not recognize Cal athletics in a couple years one way or the other.

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Probably can't cut field hockey, as the coaching position is endowed.

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so is mens tennis but not womens.

Ccajon2 said:

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CalFanatic said:

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Me thinks we are going to the ACC, no?

---

Funny how nobody on this board ever mentioned one word about ACC until about a week ago, then all of a sudden, they are our new best friend throwing us a lifeline-NOT! Thank the Lord there are some cooler heads over there saying NO! As those Clemson fans like to say: we don't need another bottom feeder FB program feeding off us.

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What "cooler heads" do you think are saying no?
It's going to be the ACC.

Ccajon2 said:

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juarezbear said:

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Ccajon2 said:

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CalFanatic said:

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Me thinks we are going to the ACC, no?

---

Funny how nobody on this board ever mentioned one word about ACC until about a week ago, then all of a sudden, they are our new best friend throwing us a lifeline-NOT! Thank the Lord there are some cooler heads over there saying NO! As those Clemson fans like to say: we don't need another bottom feeder FB program feeding off us.

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Cajon - What do you propose then?

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Invite the MWC to merge into the remaining P-12. Or try to join the AAC.

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Either of those would be devastating.
Massive transfers of players and reduced donations would bring the financial house of cards down.

Cal will be in the ACC. And sports are being cut finally.

Ccajon2 said:

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Invite the MWC to merge into the remaining P-12. Or try to join the AAC.

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A horrible idea for obvious reasons.

In fact, a MWC TV payout would barely pay our football coach's salary.
Not going to happen.

https://www.si.com/college/cal/news/acc-cal-stanford-football-hoops-only
Right, ACC appears to be happening so all this MWC talk is moot. I also don't think there will be massive sports cuts, not with even a small piece of ACC pie. Future attempted cuts will probably follow the baseball model, threatening extinction for a few high-cost sports and then rich donors swoop in to save the day.

barsad said:

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https://www.si.com/college/cal/news/acc-cal-stanford-football-hoops-only
Right, ACC appears to be happening so all this MWC talk is moot. I also don't think there will be massive sports cuts, not with even a small piece of ACC pie. Future attempted cuts will probably follow the baseball model, threatening extinction for a few high-cost sports and then rich donors swoop in to save the day.

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Still trying to verify that baseball is actually saved?

dan1997 said:

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Stu Gordon will not allow baseball to be cut.

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Why won't he allow it to be relevant?

Interestingly enough, (like the former Pac12), the ACC is filled with massive Olympic sport exposure as well as sports featuring very competitive women's teams like soccer, x-country, tennis, golf, and field hockey.

This olympic sport "fit" would work well for Cal and Standford given our shared values.

The previous school year saw Championships in mens soccer (Syracuse), mens tennis (Virginia), womens x-country (NC State), field hockey (North Carolina), womens golf (Wake Forest), womens swimming (Virginia), and womens tennis (North Carolina).

Problem is, the travel expense.

A tidbit I offered on a Woman's Gymnastics thread is that the ACC only recently became an officially recognized Gymnastics conference. The requirement is to have 4 universities which are Pitt, NC, and NC State. Clemson started their program only a couple of years ago. But they recruited Suni Lee, the 2020 Olympic All-Around champ and current Team USA member. Adding Cal & Furd would be huge for them. Both are strong programs. Cal would be the top dog right now. Suni Lee is on leave for the Olympics but could be back in time for the 2025 season right when Cal & Furd join. So I would assume, the ACC would ask Cal & Furd to bring their women gymnastics' programs to the ACC. Women's Gymnastics gets pretty decent ratings enough for the finals to be broadcast on ABC every year and ratings have gone up each year. It is very much a star driven sport (Olympians and Instagram) Suni Lee qualifies as that. Cal has some really good gymnasts not sure any of them reach the star level yet. But overall it is a very attractive program that the ACC would want.

Thought Suni Lee was at Auburn. Did she switch?

oh yeah you are right! Clemson is a new program but has plenty of buzz. the point being if Clemson bolts, they would be under the 4 school requirement. Cal & Furd would put them one above limit.

OBear073akaSMFan said:

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Thought Suni Lee was at Auburn. Did she switch?

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You are correct.
Suni was with Auburn 2022-2023.
Her Final Season.

juarezbear said:

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Shocky1 said:

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rugby would be the 1st sport to cut (reclassified to club status) along with baseball

clubguy, title ix is contingent upon "counters" (the number of athletes on a roster), your comment about the # of mens and women's sports is not factual in the real world

reality is that nobody gives a **** about rugby other than jack clark & the 200+ people that show up for matches against life university...how many fans will be at memorial stadium for the auburn game on september 9th

football makes tens of millions of dollars a year & basically subsidizes the entire knowlton led bureaucracy, if you knew how to read financial statements u would already know that

but agreed that a great purge is coming & the number of teams will be rightsized to 16

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Totally agree. Rugby to club sport.

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Rugby is already a Club Sport.
But it has scholarships.

dan1997 said:

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Stu Gordon will not allow baseball to be cut.

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Baseball will be cut.
It's funded by the Cal Athletic Department.

No, it's funded by the Cal Baseball Foundation in partnership with the Athletic Department.

Saw a quote from Christ that no sports will be cut while she's here

HoopDreams said:

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Saw a quote from Christ that no sports will be cut while she's here

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it's a safe bet this year but she does plan to retire at the end of This sporting year. Who knows next year when we officially join the ACC.

Here's a gift link for today's SF Chronicle story re: Will Cal, Stanford face sports cuts after making big sacrifices to join ACC?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-cal-sports-acc-18343327.php?utm_source=marketing&utm_medium=copy-url-link&utm_campaign=article-share&hash=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc2ZjaHJvbmljbGUuY29tL3Nwb3J0cy9jb2xsZWdlL2FydGljbGUvc3RhbmZvcmQtY2FsLXNwb3J0cy1hY2MtMTgzNDMzMjcucGhw&time=MTY5MzY3MTQzMjUxOA==&rid=MDAyMjUwYmQtNGY5Ni00OWJkLThkODgtYTNiMDBlNTNkMWI2&sharecount=Ng==

dan1997 said:

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No, it's funded by the Cal Baseball Foundation in partnership with the Athletic Department.

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Understood.

But the Baseball Foundation appears to chip in a $250,000 share and the rest of the bill is footed by the athletic department.

DiabloWags said:

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Interestingly enough, (like the former Pac12), the ACC is filled with massive Olympic sport exposure as well as sports featuring very competitive women's teams like soccer, x-country, tennis, golf, and field hockey.

This olympic sport "fit" would work well for Cal and Standford given our shared values.

The previous school year saw Championships in mens soccer (Syracuse), mens tennis (Virginia), womens x-country (NC State), field hockey (North Carolina), womens golf (Wake Forest), womens swimming (Virginia), and womens tennis (North Carolina).

Problem is, the travel expense.

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Get to know Dallas a lot, which is where a lot of the non-revenue teams will meet.

Let's try this looking at what it means to be part of the ACC: Required: basketball both genders and either women's soccer or volleyball. If Cal holds all the money football and basketball make to be more competitive in those sports, money will have to be made-up for existing deficits, which is hard when your media money has taken a temporary, but significant hit. Now Calimony, Campus, and maybe even UC provide some relief, especially on the debt. But let's say there still is not enough money left to support all teams and NIL canalizes some donations to athletic department giving - what happens? Let's speculate:

Women's Soccer is huge in conference. The ACC will be put pressure on Cal to retain teams in big ACC sports. My guess is that Cal will cut volleyball which has bottomed-out, and put beach volleyball, which will not be sponsored by the ACC, in the MPSF if they will take it. Beach has had success and doesn't require huge investment required by a conference sponsored team. Women's volleyball has bottomed-out and I can see it being cut if not needed for Title 9. Golf and Tennis are very big in the ACC, and tennis at Cal at both genders is well funded and there has been a track record of success in women's, tennis and men's golf probably is self-sustained or close, and also has a good track record. I just don't think cutting theses sports provides much financial benefit and does provide athletic benefit being in the ACC. Not sure about women's golf. My uninformed guess is maybe men's soccer is cut off this group.

Rugby won't be a sponsored sport a will stay in its current conference. This begs the issues of how does Cal Title 9 compliance with roster spaces work? Rugby's play would be totally unaffected by macro level conference affiliation and variety status. My guess is they are a casualty of Title 9, despite probably being the most successful program on campus. They become a club sport with a lot of funding that comes with special privileges like Cal hall of fame nominations.

Baseball: there are 14 men's baseball teams now in the ACC. It is a popular sport in conference. It is important to Clemson. It has a big roster. Cal has had some recent success. May be on the cutting board. Hard to say. Women's softball has to stay if baseball does for Title 9. Both stadiums take up important real estate on campus, that UC could use as a trade to wipe off the entire debt. This is a hard one. I could see both programs cut or both stay.

Water polo will not change and will stay in the MPSF
Swimming and crew are the crown jewels that always will be kept IMO

Women's gymnastics has 4 women's teams in the ACC. The men will not be sponsored in conference. Not sure there is much money savings in terminating the team. I suspect the girls on the team will have the same west coast events and find out where you can get good barbecue in Dallas.

Which brings another real hard one: Track and Field, Indoor and Outdoor. The ACC fields 15 teams and appaers to be pretty serious about T&F and X-country. T&F is a big roster sport with deficits, has a lot of minority participants, and always is on everyone's kill list. Clearly a candidate. My sense is it survives, unless deep cuts are needed. X-country may be a surprising exception. They likely will continue in the same events, except conference wide event likely are in the midwest/SMU and not a lot of cost savings for cutting, though someone who knows the program better can opine.

Lacrosse and field hockey are big in the ACC. Is that enough to justify these programs? Are they well funded? hard to say. They may get cut - someone closer to the programs that can speak to same? .

So IMO (which is an amateur look):

Untouchable: football, basketball (both genders), women's soccer, water polo (both genders), swimming, crew, men's golf, women's tennis.

Probably stays: women X-country, women's gymnastics, men's tennis, women's golf, beach volleyball (if they can move to another conference with UCLA, SC and Furd beach volleyball)

Unique: Rugby ends with quasi varsity status.

Maybe is cut: women's golf, lacrosse and field hockey, men's X - country. baseball, softball, with the last two in the hot seat to be moved to the cutting block

On the cutting block: T&F (both genders), volleyball, men's soccer, but see my qualifications on T&F.

Not sure how this all completely balances out Title 9 wise. Good luck on figuring that out.

Thoughts?

CalWSportsFan said:

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Here's a gift link for today's SF Chronicle story re: Will Cal, Stanford face sports cuts after making big sacrifices to join ACC?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/stanford-cal-sports-acc-18343327.php?utm_source=marketing&utm_medium=copy-url-link&utm_campaign=article-share&hash=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuc2ZjaHJvbmljbGUuY29tL3Nwb3J0cy9jb2xsZWdlL2FydGljbGUvc3RhbmZvcmQtY2FsLXNwb3J0cy1hY2MtMTgzNDMzMjcucGhw&time=MTY5MzY3MTQzMjUxOA==&rid=MDAyMjUwYmQtNGY5Ni00OWJkLThkODgtYTNiMDBlNTNkMWI2&sharecount=Ng==

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The answer of Furd is no cuts. Campus will fund all deficits. Any new unrestricted donations to athletics will go to football and basketball.

Cal will not cut sports under Chancellor Christ's tenure, but that tenure is scheduled to end in July 2024

I would largely agree with your assessment of which Cal non-revenue sports are at risk.

Baseball is unquestionably on the chopping block.

A large roster that plays 53 games on the season with half on the road.
It is the single biggest expense of any non-revenue team at Cal and that's why Sandy Barbour proposed cutting it back in 2010.

Not sure about Track & Field.
It has never been fully-funded, The budget is relatively small. The team can compete in invitationals here in the Bay Area and California and only have to travel back to the ACC for the Conference Meet once a year. We're talking about a grand total of 6 teams (men's and women's, indoor/outdoor, and x-country) that help the school meet Title IX as well as diversity goals.

Not sure what happens to Women's Volleyball.
I'm inclined to give them another season before making a decision.

They've had a lousy coach the last couple of years and (without him) they are already off to a 5-0 start which is the best start since 2019. Coming up, matches against Saint Mary's, Southeastern Louisiana, and especially Texas State will be good tests for our Bears, Outside hitter Maggie Li appears to be the REAL deal and has garnered two consecutive Pac-12 Freshman of the Week awards.

Next up: St. Mary's at Haas tonight at 7pm.

DiabloWags, I agree about keeping women's volleyball, especially since "All current and future ACC members sponsor all five of the named sports except Georgia Tech, which sponsors women's volleyball but not women's soccer" according to Wikipedia.

Also, D1 volleyball has 334 teams according to this link, which indicates its popularity.

DiabloWags said:

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I would largely agree with your assessment of which Cal non-revenue sports are at risk.

Baseball is unquestionably on the chopping block.

A large roster that plays 53 games on the season with half on the road.
It is the single biggest expense of any non-revenue team at Cal and that's why Sandy Barbour proposed cutting it back in 2010.

Not sure about Track & Field.
It has never been fully-funded, The budget is relatively small. The team can compete in invitationals here in the Bay Area and California and only have to travel back to the ACC for the Conference Meet once a year. We're talking about a grand total of 6 teams (men's and women's, indoor/outdoor, and x-country) that help the school meet Title IX as well as diversity goals.

Not sure what happens to Women's Volleyball.
I'm inclined to give them another season before making a decision.

They've had a lousy coach the last couple of years and (without him) they are already off to a 5-0 start which is the best start since 2019. Coming up, matches against Saint Mary's, Southeastern Louisiana, and especially Texas State will be good tests for our Bears, Outside hitter Maggie Li appears to be the REAL deal and has garnered two consecutive Pac-12 Freshman of the Week awards.

Next up: St. Mary's at Haas tonight at 7pm.

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Volleyball is a required sport in a lot of conferences. Unsure about ACC.

wifeisafurd said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Interestingly enough, (like the former Pac12), the ACC is filled with massive Olympic sport exposure as well as sports featuring very competitive women's teams like soccer, x-country, tennis, golf, and field hockey.

This olympic sport "fit" would work well for Cal and Standford given our shared values.

The previous school year saw Championships in mens soccer (Syracuse), mens tennis (Virginia), womens x-country (NC State), field hockey (North Carolina), womens golf (Wake Forest), womens swimming (Virginia), and womens tennis (North Carolina).

Problem is, the travel expense.

---

Get to know Dallas a lot, which is where a lot of the non-revenue teams will meet.

Let's try this looking at what it means to be part of the ACC: Required: basketball both genders and either women's soccer or volleyball. If Cal holds all the money football and basketball make to be more competitive in those sports, money will have to be made-up for existing deficits, which is hard when your media money has taken a temporary, but significant hit. Now Calimony, Campus, and maybe even UC provide some relief, especially on the debt. But let's say there still is not enough money left to support all teams and NIL canalizes some donations to athletic department giving - what happens? Let's speculate:

Women's Soccer is huge in conference. The ACC will be put pressure on Cal to retain teams in big ACC sports. My guess is that Cal will cut volleyball which has bottomed-out, and put beach volleyball, which will not be sponsored by the ACC, in the MPSF if they will take it. Beach has had success and doesn't require huge investment required by a conference sponsored team. Women's volleyball has bottomed-out and I can see it being cut if not needed for Title 9. Golf and Tennis are very big in the ACC, and tennis at Cal at both genders is well funded and there has been a track record of success in women's, tennis and men's golf probably is self-sustained or close, and also has a good track record. I just don't think cutting theses sports provides much financial benefit and does provide athletic benefit being in the ACC. Not sure about women's golf. My uninformed guess is maybe men's soccer is cut off this group.

Rugby won't be a sponsored sport a will stay in its current conference. This begs the issues of how does Cal Title 9 compliance with roster spaces work? Rugby's play would be totally unaffected by macro level conference affiliation and variety status. My guess is they are a casualty of Title 9, despite probably being the most successful program on campus. They become a club sport with a lot of funding that comes with special privileges like Cal hall of fame nominations.

Baseball: there are 14 men's baseball teams now in the ACC. It is a popular sport in conference. It is important to Clemson. It has a big roster. Cal has had some recent success. May be on the cutting board. Hard to say. Women's softball has to stay if baseball does for Title 9. Both stadiums take up important real estate on campus, that UC could use as a trade to wipe off the entire debt. This is a hard one. I could see both programs cut or both stay.

Water polo will not change and will stay in the MPSF
Swimming and crew are the crown jewels that always will be kept IMO

Women's gymnastics has 4 women's teams in the ACC. The men will not be sponsored in conference. Not sure there is much money savings in terminating the team. I suspect the girls on the team will have the same west coast events and find out where you can get good barbecue in Dallas.

Which brings another real hard one: Track and Field, Indoor and Outdoor. The ACC fields 15 teams and appaers to be pretty serious about T&F and X-country. T&F is a big roster sport with deficits, has a lot of minority participants, and always is on everyone's kill list. Clearly a candidate. My sense is it survives, unless deep cuts are needed. X-country may be a surprising exception. They likely will continue in the same events, except conference wide event likely are in the midwest/SMU and not a lot of cost savings for cutting, though someone who knows the program better can opine.

Lacrosse and field hockey are big in the ACC. Is that enough to justify these programs? Are they well funded? hard to say. They may get cut - someone closer to the programs that can speak to same? .

So IMO (which is an amateur look):

Untouchable: football, basketball (both genders), women's soccer, water polo (both genders), swimming, crew, men's golf, women's tennis.

Probably stays: women X-country, women's gymnastics, men's tennis, women's golf, beach volleyball (if they can move to another conference with UCLA, SC and Furd beach volleyball)

Unique: Rugby ends with quasi varsity status.

Maybe is cut: women's golf, lacrosse and field hockey, men's X - country. baseball, softball, with the last two in the hot seat to be moved to the cutting block

On the cutting block: T&F (both genders), volleyball, men's soccer, but see my qualifications on T&F.

Not sure how this all completely balances out Title 9 wise. Good luck on figuring that out.

Thoughts?

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Our softball program has played in 14 World Series, played in 3 national championships, 1 won and has the right former player/National Champion as coach. She will lead us back to a WCWS in the next 1-2 years. If we cut softball, Cal is dead to me.

(okay not really)... but any financial support or attendance in any other sports? Forget about it.

secondtrybear said:

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rugby does not have scholarships
it also raises most if not all of the money it needs for it's expenses.
ask any of the women's sports if they do that?

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Rugby has no scholarships but is a club sport-it is what it is. It also claims real estate that was intended primarily for a football practice facility which is what it's primary use should be.

secondtrybear said:

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rugby does not have scholarships
it also raises most if not all of the money it needs for it's expenses.
ask any of the women's sports if they do that?

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Doesn't matter.
Title IX.