BearGoggles said:
Unit2Sucks said:
BearGoggles said:
Unit2Sucks said:
BearGoggles said:
sycasey said:
Unit2Sucks said:
sycasey said:
BearGoggles said:
sycasey said:
BearGoggles said:
Kaepernick calling the 4th of July a celebration of white supremacy strikes me as racist. So does calling the killing of Soleimani a terrorist attack "against Black and Brown people for the expansion of American imperialism"
What? How?
If I said people singing Lift Every Voice and Sing or celebrating MLK day were celebrating black supremacy (or black supremacists/separatists), would you consider that racist? I would. Seems to be painting with a pretty big racial brush. Similar to what Unit2 loves to do, it is taking something that is universally celebrated for certain stated and shared ideals (in the case of the 4th, the foundation of an imperfect but great (and truly unique) country, or in the case of MLK, an imperfect but great person) and telling anyone who is celebrating they are racist/white supremacist.
And trying to make the killing of a terrorist about race is equally repugnant. Do you think Soleimani was black or brown? Lots of people do not. Even if he was, was he targeted because he was black or brown, or perhaps because he killed thousands of people? Viewing everything through the lens of race is pretty much what white supremacists do. It seems pretty racist to me.
So your working definition of "racism" is "viewing everything through the lens of race." I always thought it was about seeing one race as superior to another, or discriminating based on race. The above is very broad and basically says that anyone who calls out racism is racist.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
Republicans have no problem calling Kaep racist for his anti-racist message and miraculously have no comment when neo-nazis are literally gaining influence within their party. Good luck with that BG - you will be voting for Trump in 2024 along side people who want you exterminated.
I also find this argument from BearGoggle pretty weird, that since white supremacists are obsessed with race, BLM type activists (like Kaepernick) must also be racist because they are also obsessed with race.
White supremacists are indeed obsessed with race, but that's not what makes them racist. It's that they think white people are better than everyone else. I haven't seen any statements from Kaepernick in that vein. He might be wrong about some things, but that's not the same as being racist. It's very convenient for right-wingers to conflate these two concepts.
Reducing everything to race is racist.
White supremacists think white (non-jewish) people are better, simply because they're white.
Some of the BLM types think white people are bad or deserving of worse treatment, simply because they're white. That is equally racist.
I reject determining people's rights or obligations based on race or religion - that is bigoted/racist.
And to be clear, that is not a rejection of the vestiges of slavery/jim crow or a denial that there are systemic problems - those are in some cases real (though much less so than 60 years ago). It is a rejection of any argument that says all or most disparate outcomes today are the result of systemic racism or other forms of racism.
You just have no idea what you are talking about. The false equivalence between actual racism and this bizarre notion that "BLM types" have harsh words for white people makes me wonder whether you've ever really considered why racism is problematic in our society. It's not just about hurt feelings.
The fact that successful, educated white people can be so fragile as to complain about the sorts of things they do, while voicing that they believe actual racism has decreased over the past few decades is still astonishing to me. It's like comparing a paper cut (those can really hurt!) to being maimed.
Only a person who is completely devoid of historical knowledge or delusional could assert that actual racism hasn't been reduced since 1960 (which was my claim). That is a historical fact.
There is no false equivalency being drawn - I'm not comparing events. I'm simply saying that racism is bad no matter what the context.
You are drawing an equivalence between actual racism and white fragility. All of your hypotheticals are evidence that you don't have a clue.
Racism has impacted the lives of all black and brown people for centuries. What you are complaining about is just fuel for the right wing outrage machine. None of it has impacted your life in any way. It's meaningless and any attempt to draw a comparison to actual racism makes you look like, well, the clueless person that you obviously are with respect to these topics. Every time you respond to one of these topics you look even more ridiculous so keep it coming.
All of my responses include examples and explanations of my thinking. They are opinions or arguments and I'm happy to engage those who respond on the merits. I don't expect people to agree with me - certainly not here on the Cal echo chamber liberal board. But I'm happy to engage, if for no other reason than to have back and forth with some of the progressives here that argue in good faith (sycasey, Dajo, among others, but certainly but not you). There have been times where I've reconsidered my position or modified my thinking based on things written on this board.
And even when I feel strongly about an issue, I acknowledge that the other side has a view that makes sense to them, based on different values/priorities, not because they're bad people. You, on the other hand, simply launch ad hominem and assume that there can't possibly be a good faith view different than your own - it is childish and shows either bad faith or a lack of intellect.
Your responses are full of woke terms like "white fragility" and literally no actual argument on the merits. You don't address the actual examples I provided and explain why, contrary to my position, it is not racist to: (i) impugn/blame white/black/brown people simply because they're white/black/brown; and/or (ii) view every issue through a prism of race. Telling me racism has impacted the lives of "all black and brown people" is not a response to those questions.
I'm not the one looking ridiculous here. You're the one claiming Biden has no signs of senility/dementia and that there has been no racial progress in the last 60 years.
Look who's playing the victim card again. You seem very keen on picking up ad hominem attacks but mysteriously don't realize when you are making them.
Nowhere have I stated that there hasn't been any progress dealing with racism over the last 60 years. It's not relevant to this discussion nor to the false equivalence you've made between racism and whatever it is that you think counts as racism against white people.
You've made a number of arguments and it's been helpful to combat your arguments when you've given your reasons because your reasons in this thread have generally been very poor to go along with weak arguments. There is no participation prize for making poor, if genuine, arguments.
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You don't address the actual examples I provided and explain why, contrary to my position, it is not racist to: (i) impugn/blame white/black/brown people simply because they're white/black/brown; and/or (ii) view every issue through a prism of race. Telling me racism has impacted the lives of "all black and brown people" is not a response to those questions.
You like to talk about "racism" in the abstract but the way you are viewing it isn't relevant. I would say it's academic but it's not academic either because no one cares about your formulation. The idea that anyone who says anything about any race is racist is frankly pointless to discuss. Out here in the real world, we address racism because it impacts people's lives. You assiduously avoid the topic of impact for reasons only you can know and that we can surmise. Anti-racism is not racism and white people are not a marginalized group in this country. Racism matters at a macro level and at a micro level. Whether you want to challenge the description of macro level concerns as institutional is up to you, but the point remains that racism is woven throughout the fabric of our society, and many others. You can't simply wipe it away because some people claim to be "color blind" or because we as a society have made some strides. Nor can you pretend that a small number of immaterial micro events somehow arise to the same macro concerns of racism that people of color still face in this country.
And lol for bringing up Biden. I have been saying from day one that he is a gaffe machine and doesn't meet my intelligence bar for presidency. To my mind, the only presidents who have met the bar in the last 50 years are Nixon, Clinton and Obama. Biden is a good worker and he does his best, but he's never been an exemplary mind. In a country that has become hostile to intelligence, this is what we've come to. I have seen nothing that would make me think that he is as incapable as Trump so obviously was or that Biden is suffering from senility rather than just being who he's always been. Republicans will continue to happily vote for people dumber than Biden while still pretending like Biden's intelligence is a problem.
