Unit2Sucks said:

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Pretending like you are all of the sudden interested in having an honest discussion is risible. You can't have a real discussion when one side is divorced from reality. This isn't a "split the difference" type situation. One side is spreading false and dangerous misinformation and it's contributing to the thousands of daily suicides in this country. That's what is actually happening. We don't have an overcounting problem we have a magical thinking by the do your own research crowd.

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True.

And the more and more time I spend at Bearinsider, the more I realize that my degree from CAL isnt worth as much as I thought. The amount of "twisted" logic that I've read here since Christmas is so stunning, that I cant believe these people actually got through the admissions office, let alone graduated.

DiabloWags said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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Pretending like you are all of the sudden interested in having an honest discussion is risible. You can't have a real discussion when one side is divorced from reality. This isn't a "split the difference" type situation. One side is spreading false and dangerous misinformation and it's contributing to the thousands of daily suicides in this country. That's what is actually happening. We don't have an overcounting problem we have a magical thinking by the do your own research crowd.

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True.

And the more and more time I spend at Bearinsider, the more I realize that my degree from CAL isnt worth as much as I thought. The amount of "twisted" logic that I've read here since Christmas is so stunning, that I cant believe these people actually got through the admissions office, let alone graduated.

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Your and USuck's condescending elitist attitude makes it impossible to have dialog such that someone can be persuaded. It is easy to be skeptical of US health agencies, and my hope was to simply say that they should take action to try to get the covid skeptics on board, as opposed to your slash and burn attitudes. The link below is a discussion on over-counting child covid hospitalizations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/now-he-tells-us-11641237684

"The true number of deaths from the Covid pandemic in the US is probably being undercounted, due to the long-lasting and little-understood effects of Covid infection and other deadly complications that surged during the past two years.

"We are seeing right now the highest death rates we have ever seen in the history of this business," J Scott Davison, CEO of insurance company OneAmerica, told journalists on 30 December.

Death rates are up 40% over what they were pre-pandemic," he said, among working-age people between 18 and 64. Deaths among older Americans have also increased, with one in 100 Americans over the age of 65.

There have been an estimated 942,431 excess deaths in the US since February 2020, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Hispanic, Black and Native American and Alaska Native populations have been disproportionately affected with high death rates, research shows.


Many of the deaths aren't counted in the official Covid tally, he said, because they happen months after Covid infections. "The deaths that are being reported as Covid deaths greatly understate the actual death losses among working-age people from the pandemic. It may not all be Covid on their death certificates, but deaths are up in just huge, huge numbers."

True number of Covid deaths in the US probably undercounted, experts say

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/07/true-number-covid-deaths-us-likely-undercounted-experts?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

oski003 said:

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Wow, more tribal fallacies. You certainly are persuasive. SARCASM. We know that Covid deaths and hospitalizations are overcounted.

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Covid deaths are overcounted?
Says who?

Analysis: Half of Global Coronavirus Deaths Unreported | Health News | US News

oski003 said:

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Your and USuck's condescending elitist attitude makes it impossible to have dialog such that someone can be persuaded.

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I'm sorry, but I find many of your posts to be filled with nothing other than misinformation.

DiabloWags said:

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oski003 said:

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Your and USuck's condescending elitist attitude makes it impossible to have dialog such that someone can be persuaded.

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I'm sorry, but I find many of your posts to be filled with nothing other than misinformation.

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If you'd like to argue specifics in the vaccine focused thread, be my guest.

DiabloWags said:

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oski003 said:

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Wow, more tribal fallacies. You certainly are persuasive. SARCASM. We know that Covid deaths and hospitalizations are overcounted.

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Covid deaths are overcounted?
Says who?

Analysis: Half of Global Coronavirus Deaths Unreported | Health News | US News

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I definitely agree that deaths were undercounted at the beginning of the pandemic.

Rapid nasal coronavirus tests may not be as reliable with Omicron variant - Axios


https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-testing-omicron-rapid-tests-0d3841b3-88e2-4efa-be6e-3b9a437948c1.html


COVID cases soar by over 200%, fueled by Omicron - Axios


https://www.axios.com/covid-cases-hospitals-omicron-wave-less-severe-ac81dd8b-082d-4f06-bff8-93825a0ce9a5.html

"In previous waves, a sharp increase in cases would translate into a similar increase in hospitalizations, then deaths. Omicron, however, appears to cause severe illness at a much lower rate."

2 attorney's presenting their case against Biden's Vaccine Mandate to the Supreme Court have tested positive for Covid. - - - Shocker!

Brian Tyler Cohen on Twitter: "BREAKING: Two of the lawyers presenting arguments to the Supreme Court to block Biden's vaccine mandate have tested positive for COVID. Because of course." / Twitter

DiabloWags said:

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2 attorney's presenting their case against Biden's Vaccine Mandate to the Supreme Court have tested positive for Covid. - - - Shocker!

Brian Tyler Cohen on Twitter: "BREAKING: Two of the lawyers presenting arguments to the Supreme Court to block Biden's vaccine mandate have tested positive for COVID. Because of course." / Twitter

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Are the attorneys vaccinated?

Secondly, you realize that our current vaccines only give decent protection against omicron infection for about three months, right?

Focusing on scenarios where COVID deaths were overcounted is missing the point. Yes, surely this does happen at times (someone died from something that would have killed them anyway, but they also had COVID so it's recorded that way). But how do you know this isn't more than balanced out by people who died of COVID but never visited a hospital and so never got recorded at all?

The trends are what you want to look at. Assuming these factors remain roughly the same, you can still accurately determine if COVID deaths are rising or falling. Thankfully, they have been decoupling from case counts since the vaccines were introduced. The vaccines work.

Beyond that, if you look at the amount of "excess death" in the US over the last two years (meaning additional deaths beyond the expected historical average), it comes pretty close to the recorded numbers of COVID deaths. So we're probably in the ballpark on that number anyway. There's not a lot of use to obsessing over the minutiae.