Why Russia's military isn't quite as powerful as it seems - Sandboxx


https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/3-advanced-russian-weapons-that-turned-out-to-be-science-fiction/

Russia can't compete with the U.S. militarily but is engaged in other forms of asymmetrical warfare like information warfare, see DiabloWigs.

Naturally, the article has no relevance to the issue that Russia is going to invade the Ukraine if they want to. Let'em.

Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

The old Soviet Union sold a bunch of their weapons and equipment to Nicholas Cage.

MinotStateBeav said:

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Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

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Though that would be small comfort to the people currently living in the path of the blitzkreig.

Putin like Biden has problems at home. He is unpopular so restoring Greater Russia may have appeal especially since neither the US or NATO is going to war over this but it's still a potential disaster because he could be trapped into counter insurgency war. In addition though he may benefit short term from an energy spike the Europeans will also move to other alternatives. It's no accident that France announced a major expansion of nuclear power plants after Macron went to Moscow. My guess- he invades but stops short of seizing all of Ukraine, just bolsters what he already owns

sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

---

Though that would be small comfort to the people currently living in the path of the blitzkreig.

---

Look, Ukraine didn't defend Crimea or Donetsk. Its on them to defend their territory. The United States even told Ukraine, you gave up Crimea so fast, there was no way we could have helped. This is the same thing I would say to Europeans. Outside of Poland, Hungary and the baltic nations nobody in Europe (minus Britain) spends jack sheet on defense. France couldn't even deal with Libya, they had to beg the US to help, the 2nd most powerful Euro nation...

Some say the Ukrainians have it coming.

By the end of 1942, in Reichskommissariat Ukraine alone, the SS employed 238,000 Ukrainians and only 15,000 Germans, a ratio of 1 to 16. Wikipedia

14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)

bearister said:

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Some say the Ukrainians have it coming.

By the end of 1942, in Reichskommissariat Ukraine alone, the SS employed 238,000 Ukrainians and only 15,000 Germans, a ratio of 1 to 16. Wikipedia

14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)

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Sorry this correlation is just stupid. The current generation of Ukrainians have nothing to do with the generation of wwii Ukrainians, therefore should not be held responsible for their actions. No child should ever have to pay for the crimes of their parents or grandparents.

The best argument I heard from a geopolitical strategist for why russia will not invade is that surprise is a key element in combat and telegraphing an invasion as russia is doing is just tactically dumb.

Russia wants talks and to negotiate to obtain something without having to fight for it.

MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

---

Though that would be small comfort to the people currently living in the path of the blitzkreig.

---

Look, Ukraine didn't defend Crimea or Donetsk. Its on them to defend their territory. The United States even told Ukraine, you gave up Crimea so fast, there was no way we could have helped. This is the same thing I would say to Europeans. Outside of Poland, Hungary and the baltic nations nobody in Europe (minus Britain) spends jack sheet on defense. France couldn't even deal with Libya, they had to beg the US to help, the 2nd most powerful Euro nation...

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So your stance is that the US should be isolationist.

golden sloth said:

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The best argument I heard from a geopolitical strategist for why russia will not invade is that surprise is a key element in combat and telegraphing an invasion as russia is doing is just tactically dumb.

Russia wants talks and to negotiate to obtain something without having to fight for it.

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Two weeks ago, a friend of mine (also a Cal alum) and born and raised in the Ukraine thinks that Putin is bluffing and simply trying to jack up energy prices. Given what has transpired in the last week in Belarus and the specific kinds of military equipment being transported over vast distances, I'm inclined to disagree.

Actual CNN headline pic.twitter.com/FEsZH3rz5p

— Honkmaster Poso 🎺 (@JackPosobiec) February 11, 2022

My sources at CNN tell me Putin is waiting until the goods are delivered.

sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

---

Though that would be small comfort to the people currently living in the path of the blitzkreig.

---

Look, Ukraine didn't defend Crimea or Donetsk. Its on them to defend their territory. The United States even told Ukraine, you gave up Crimea so fast, there was no way we could have helped. This is the same thing I would say to Europeans. Outside of Poland, Hungary and the baltic nations nobody in Europe (minus Britain) spends jack sheet on defense. France couldn't even deal with Libya, they had to beg the US to help, the 2nd most powerful Euro nation...

---

So your stance is that the US should be isolationist.

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I think a general rule should be, did we get attacked? Yes or no. Did an ally get attacked? Yes or No.

That's a good litmus test for getting involved.

MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

---

Though that would be small comfort to the people currently living in the path of the blitzkreig.

---

Look, Ukraine didn't defend Crimea or Donetsk. Its on them to defend their territory. The United States even told Ukraine, you gave up Crimea so fast, there was no way we could have helped. This is the same thing I would say to Europeans. Outside of Poland, Hungary and the baltic nations nobody in Europe (minus Britain) spends jack sheet on defense. France couldn't even deal with Libya, they had to beg the US to help, the 2nd most powerful Euro nation...

---

So your stance is that the US should be isolationist.

---

I think a general rule should be, did we get attacked? Yes or no. Did an ally get attacked? Yes or No.

That's a good litmus test for getting involved.

---

So Ukraine would not count as an ally?

golden sloth said:

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bearister said:

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Some say the Ukrainians have it coming.

By the end of 1942, in Reichskommissariat Ukraine alone, the SS employed 238,000 Ukrainians and only 15,000 Germans, a ratio of 1 to 16. Wikipedia

14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician) - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)

---

Sorry this correlation is just stupid. The current generation of Ukrainians have nothing to do with the generation of wwii Ukrainians, therefore should not be held responsible for their actions. No child should ever have to pay for the crimes of their parents or grandparents.

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If the Israelis are cool wit'em, I'm cool wit'em:


How free is Ukraine of antisemitism? - The Jerusalem Post


https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-692443

It appears the pro Russian Ukrainians are the anti Semites.

sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

---

Though that would be small comfort to the people currently living in the path of the blitzkreig.

---

Look, Ukraine didn't defend Crimea or Donetsk. Its on them to defend their territory. The United States even told Ukraine, you gave up Crimea so fast, there was no way we could have helped. This is the same thing I would say to Europeans. Outside of Poland, Hungary and the baltic nations nobody in Europe (minus Britain) spends jack sheet on defense. France couldn't even deal with Libya, they had to beg the US to help, the 2nd most powerful Euro nation...

---

So your stance is that the US should be isolationist.

---

I think a general rule should be, did we get attacked? Yes or no. Did an ally get attacked? Yes or No.

That's a good litmus test for getting involved.

---

So Ukraine would not count as an ally?

---

As Obama said, Ukraine is not part of our vital interests. However, Russia considers Ukraine part of their vital interests.

This is not one of those Hitler-and-the-Sudetenland deals. If Russia attacks Ukraine, let's use international diplomacy and sanctions against them. Nothing more. Ultimately, Putin would be making a dumb-ass mistake.

We are bound by alliance to defend Poland and Hungary. We have no strategic alliance with Ukraine.

Big C said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

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sycasey said:

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MinotStateBeav said:

---

Russia's military is really meant for defense, they have a lot of tanks. But their air force is a shambles. They could probably blitzkreig a neighbor before pulling back. But they would be overwhelmed in the sky by the US/Nato. I'm not that concerned about russia invading tbh.

---

Though that would be small comfort to the people currently living in the path of the blitzkreig.

---

Look, Ukraine didn't defend Crimea or Donetsk. Its on them to defend their territory. The United States even told Ukraine, you gave up Crimea so fast, there was no way we could have helped. This is the same thing I would say to Europeans. Outside of Poland, Hungary and the baltic nations nobody in Europe (minus Britain) spends jack sheet on defense. France couldn't even deal with Libya, they had to beg the US to help, the 2nd most powerful Euro nation...

---

So your stance is that the US should be isolationist.

---

I think a general rule should be, did we get attacked? Yes or no. Did an ally get attacked? Yes or No.

That's a good litmus test for getting involved.

---

So Ukraine would not count as an ally?

---

As Obama said, Ukraine is not part of our vital interests. However, Russia considers Ukraine part of their vital interests.

This is not one of those Hitler-and-the-Sudetenland deals. If Russia attacks Ukraine, let's use international diplomacy and sanctions against them. Nothing more. Ultimately, Putin would be making a dumb-ass mistake.

---

Obviously a direct attack on Russia would not be advisable. They have lots of nukes. "Getting involved" would include a lot of things, though, like sanctions or selling arms to the Ukrainians. It can be hard to get a handle on just how much people think we should "get involved."

Good test for entering a war:

Is the war worth fighting and dying for by all citizens of the country or just the volunteer army?

I don't see anybody advocating for war with Russia. The response would involve strong sanctions against Putin's oligarchs which could be pretty damaging to Putin.

Putin is counting on his servants in American media and government to protect him while he teams with them to cause discontent in America. He's been at this playbook for many years now. If you haven't figured it out yet, you may be too dumb to save America.

Does America's debt to China have any bearing on how things may or not go down ?

going4roses said:

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Does America's debt to China have any bearing on how things may or not go down ?

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No. China buys U.S. debt because they have dollars from selling goods to America. If China sold the dollars for their currency the U.S. dollar would devalue and we'd be more competitive with China and that would wreck the Chinese economy. They buy our debt because it's good for them, not because it's good for us.

😂😂😂 pic.twitter.com/IW73M9l8uT

— il Donaldo Trumpo (@PapiTrumpo) February 11, 2022

He just talking out his arse ?

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdBP1Hqh/

BearForce2 said:

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Actual CNN headline pic.twitter.com/FEsZH3rz5p

— Truckistani Underground Poso 🚛 (@JackPosobiec) February 11, 2022

My sources at CNN tell me Putin is waiting until the goods are delivered.

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I wouldn't believe anything that CNN or MSNBC are saying about Ukraine/Russia.

For the Ukraine-Russia issue, I strongly encourage you to limit your weighting of U.S. legacy/corporate/mainstream media to 15% or less.

Yes, Putin put lots of troops at Ukraine's border. No, Putin has no interest in an invasion of Ukraine. He does, however, have an interest in

• letting the U.S. do what it does -- threaten, posture, and escalate;
• revealing how little the U.S. actually cares about its European allies and their interests;
• revealing how much more the U.S. cares about using its military might to bully other nations;
• revealing the degree to which the U.S. war hawks and defense industry titans drive an aggressive, belligerent U.S. foreign policy;
• driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies in Europe;
• showing that the U.S. & NATO are the aggressor in Eastern Europe -- not [so much] Russia;
• strengthening economic bonds between Russia and Europe... and China, and... ROW;
• revealing to the ROW that the U.S. is in steep decline as a nation, and no longer capable of being a responsible leader;
• making the case against the USD remaining as the world's reserve currency, just as the U.S. is in the terminal phase of a massive credit bubble.

If you read through the Joint Statement between the Russian Federation & China from a few days ago, it's clear that everything Putin & Xi are aiming for evaporates if Russia invades Ukraine.

Biden is, predictably, trying to bolster his approval ratings by hoping to do a modern version of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and trying to do what everyone thought JFK did in 1962 -- escalate, show strength, and get Kruschev to back down. [The reality was that installing Russian missiles in Cuba wasn't Kruschev's aggression -- it was a response to the U.S. previously installing Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey. The crisis ended when JFK & Kruschev both agreed to remove their missiles from each other's doorsteps.]

Former U.S. Intelligence Officer & Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter has a compelling article on what's happening. I think it's worth adding to your Foreign Policy reading list.
The Ultimate End of NATO

If I were Joe, I'd take the deal -- promise that NATO won't include Ukraine, and send everyone home to watch the rest of the Olympics in peace. But that's just me, apparently.

dajo9 said:

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going4roses said:

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Does America's debt to China have any bearing on how things may or not go down ?

---

No. China buys U.S. debt because they have dollars from selling goods to America. If China sold the dollars for their currency the U.S. dollar would devalue and we'd be more competitive with China and that would wreck the Chinese economy. They buy our debt because it's good for them, not because it's good for us.

---

China is holding about $1.05 trillion in U.S. Treasuries. For quite a while, China was purchasing Treasuries with its USD, but not so much now.

With CPI at ~7%, U.S. Treasuries are not a great deal, adjusted for inflation. That's why foreign purchases of Treasuries have leveled off. Direct purchases of U.S. real estate, equities, and other assets are more popular, and a much better deal... for now...
https://aheadoftheherd.com/foreign-treasury-buyers-take-pause-a-story-told-in-charts/

cbbass1 said:

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For the Ukraine-Russia issue, I strongly encourage you to limit your weighting of U.S. legacy/corporate/mainstream media to 15% or less.

Yes, Putin put lots of troops at Ukraine's border. No, Putin has no interest in an invasion of Ukraine. He does, however, have an interest in

• letting the U.S. do what it does -- threaten, posture, and escalate;
• revealing how little the U.S. actually cares about its European allies and their interests;
• revealing how much more the U.S. cares about using its military might to bully other nations;
• revealing the degree to which the U.S. war hawks and defense industry titans drive an aggressive, belligerent U.S. foreign policy;
• driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies in Europe;
• showing that the U.S. & NATO are the aggressor in Eastern Europe -- not [so much] Russia;
• strengthening economic bonds between Russia and Europe... and China, and... ROW;
• revealing to the ROW that the U.S. is in steep decline as a nation, and no longer capable of being a responsible leader;
• making the case against the USD remaining as the world's reserve currency, just as the U.S. is in the terminal phase of a massive credit bubble.

If you read through the Joint Statement between the Russian Federation & China from a few days ago, it's clear that everything Putin & Xi are aiming for evaporates if Russia invades Ukraine.

Biden is, predictably, trying to bolster his approval ratings by hoping to do a modern version of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and trying to do what everyone thought JFK did in 1962 -- escalate, show strength, and get Kruschev to back down. [The reality was that installing Russian missiles in Cuba wasn't Kruschev's aggression -- it was a response to the U.S. previously installing Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey. The crisis ended when JFK & Kruschev both agreed to remove their missiles from each other's doorsteps.]

Former U.S. Intelligence Officer & Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter has a compelling article on what's happening. I think it's worth adding to your Foreign Policy reading list.
The Ultimate End of NATO

If I were Joe, I'd take the deal -- promise that NATO won't include Ukraine, and send everyone home to watch the rest of the Olympics in peace. But that's just me, apparently.

---

No, its not just you. Most conservatives today have also decided that what's most important is that Putin's view of the world be put forward and that we all appease Putin.

Nevermind that Putin has invaded 2 neighbors already and interfered in our election. Nevermind that even if we took the appeasement deal, as you suggest and which our ally Ukraine is opposed, Putin would continue his campaign to control Ukraine through a proxy, just as he does Belarus and other neighbors.

We need to stop appeasing Putin. We need to draw a hard line through sanctions and other financial means. We need to start supporting American interests and not white nationalist oligarch interests.

cbbass1 said:

---

For the Ukraine-Russia issue, I strongly encourage you to limit your weighting of U.S. legacy/corporate/mainstream media to 15% or less.

Yes, Putin put lots of troops at Ukraine's border. No, Putin has no interest in an invasion of Ukraine. He does, however, have an interest in

• letting the U.S. do what it does -- threaten, posture, and escalate;
• revealing how little the U.S. actually cares about its European allies and their interests;
• revealing how much more the U.S. cares about using its military might to bully other nations;
• revealing the degree to which the U.S. war hawks and defense industry titans drive an aggressive, belligerent U.S. foreign policy;
• driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies in Europe;
• showing that the U.S. & NATO are the aggressor in Eastern Europe -- not [so much] Russia;
• strengthening economic bonds between Russia and Europe... and China, and... ROW;
• revealing to the ROW that the U.S. is in steep decline as a nation, and no longer capable of being a responsible leader;
• making the case against the USD remaining as the world's reserve currency, just as the U.S. is in the terminal phase of a massive credit bubble.

If you read through the Joint Statement between the Russian Federation & China from a few days ago, it's clear that everything Putin & Xi are aiming for evaporates if Russia invades Ukraine.

Biden is, predictably, trying to bolster his approval ratings by hoping to do a modern version of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and trying to do what everyone thought JFK did in 1962 -- escalate, show strength, and get Kruschev to back down. [The reality was that installing Russian missiles in Cuba wasn't Kruschev's aggression -- it was a response to the U.S. previously installing Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey. The crisis ended when JFK & Kruschev both agreed to remove their missiles from each other's doorsteps.]

Former U.S. Intelligence Officer & Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter has a compelling article on what's happening. I think it's worth adding to your Foreign Policy reading list.
The Ultimate End of NATO

If I were Joe, I'd take the deal -- promise that NATO won't include Ukraine, and send everyone home to watch the rest of the Olympics in peace. But that's just me, apparently.

---

So how are you so sure Putin doesn't want to invade Ukraine when he already invaded Ukraine once before?

sycasey said:

---

cbbass1 said:

---

For the Ukraine-Russia issue, I strongly encourage you to limit your weighting of U.S. legacy/corporate/mainstream media to 15% or less.

Yes, Putin put lots of troops at Ukraine's border. No, Putin has no interest in an invasion of Ukraine. He does, however, have an interest in

• letting the U.S. do what it does -- threaten, posture, and escalate;
• revealing how little the U.S. actually cares about its European allies and their interests;
• revealing how much more the U.S. cares about using its military might to bully other nations;
• revealing the degree to which the U.S. war hawks and defense industry titans drive an aggressive, belligerent U.S. foreign policy;
• driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies in Europe;
• showing that the U.S. & NATO are the aggressor in Eastern Europe -- not [so much] Russia;
• strengthening economic bonds between Russia and Europe... and China, and... ROW;
• revealing to the ROW that the U.S. is in steep decline as a nation, and no longer capable of being a responsible leader;
• making the case against the USD remaining as the world's reserve currency, just as the U.S. is in the terminal phase of a massive credit bubble.

If you read through the Joint Statement between the Russian Federation & China from a few days ago, it's clear that everything Putin & Xi are aiming for evaporates if Russia invades Ukraine.

Biden is, predictably, trying to bolster his approval ratings by hoping to do a modern version of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and trying to do what everyone thought JFK did in 1962 -- escalate, show strength, and get Kruschev to back down. [The reality was that installing Russian missiles in Cuba wasn't Kruschev's aggression -- it was a response to the U.S. previously installing Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey. The crisis ended when JFK & Kruschev both agreed to remove their missiles from each other's doorsteps.]

Former U.S. Intelligence Officer & Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter has a compelling article on what's happening. I think it's worth adding to your Foreign Policy reading list.
The Ultimate End of NATO

If I were Joe, I'd take the deal -- promise that NATO won't include Ukraine, and send everyone home to watch the rest of the Olympics in peace. But that's just me, apparently.

---

So how are you so sure Putin doesn't want to invade Ukraine when he already invaded Ukraine once before?

---

Putin media said so. Duh.

dajo9 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

cbbass1 said:

---

For the Ukraine-Russia issue, I strongly encourage you to limit your weighting of U.S. legacy/corporate/mainstream media to 15% or less.

Yes, Putin put lots of troops at Ukraine's border. No, Putin has no interest in an invasion of Ukraine. He does, however, have an interest in

• letting the U.S. do what it does -- threaten, posture, and escalate;
• revealing how little the U.S. actually cares about its European allies and their interests;
• revealing how much more the U.S. cares about using its military might to bully other nations;
• revealing the degree to which the U.S. war hawks and defense industry titans drive an aggressive, belligerent U.S. foreign policy;
• driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies in Europe;
• showing that the U.S. & NATO are the aggressor in Eastern Europe -- not [so much] Russia;
• strengthening economic bonds between Russia and Europe... and China, and... ROW;
• revealing to the ROW that the U.S. is in steep decline as a nation, and no longer capable of being a responsible leader;
• making the case against the USD remaining as the world's reserve currency, just as the U.S. is in the terminal phase of a massive credit bubble.

If you read through the Joint Statement between the Russian Federation & China from a few days ago, it's clear that everything Putin & Xi are aiming for evaporates if Russia invades Ukraine.

Biden is, predictably, trying to bolster his approval ratings by hoping to do a modern version of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and trying to do what everyone thought JFK did in 1962 -- escalate, show strength, and get Kruschev to back down. [The reality was that installing Russian missiles in Cuba wasn't Kruschev's aggression -- it was a response to the U.S. previously installing Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey. The crisis ended when JFK & Kruschev both agreed to remove their missiles from each other's doorsteps.]

Former U.S. Intelligence Officer & Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter has a compelling article on what's happening. I think it's worth adding to your Foreign Policy reading list.
The Ultimate End of NATO

If I were Joe, I'd take the deal -- promise that NATO won't include Ukraine, and send everyone home to watch the rest of the Olympics in peace. But that's just me, apparently.

---

So how are you so sure Putin doesn't want to invade Ukraine when he already invaded Ukraine once before?

---

Putin media said so. Duh.

---

That "Ultimate End of NATO" article reads like pure propaganda, pushing the Russian interest. The 2014 Ukrainian revolution was a "coup" by the US? What? Seems more like the Ukrainian population themselves were dissatisfied with the current government and overthrew it.

He also says "the Russian military would defeat any force NATO can assemble in a stand-up conventional fight." Again, what? Either NATO is the big bully or it isn't.

dajo9 said:

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cbbass1 said:

---

For the Ukraine-Russia issue, I strongly encourage you to limit your weighting of U.S. legacy/corporate/mainstream media to 15% or less.

Yes, Putin put lots of troops at Ukraine's border. No, Putin has no interest in an invasion of Ukraine. He does, however, have an interest in

• letting the U.S. do what it does -- threaten, posture, and escalate;
• revealing how little the U.S. actually cares about its European allies and their interests;
• revealing how much more the U.S. cares about using its military might to bully other nations;
• revealing the degree to which the U.S. war hawks and defense industry titans drive an aggressive, belligerent U.S. foreign policy;
• driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies in Europe;
• showing that the U.S. & NATO are the aggressor in Eastern Europe -- not [so much] Russia;
• strengthening economic bonds between Russia and Europe... and China, and... ROW;
• revealing to the ROW that the U.S. is in steep decline as a nation, and no longer capable of being a responsible leader;
• making the case against the USD remaining as the world's reserve currency, just as the U.S. is in the terminal phase of a massive credit bubble.

If you read through the Joint Statement between the Russian Federation & China from a few days ago, it's clear that everything Putin & Xi are aiming for evaporates if Russia invades Ukraine.

Biden is, predictably, trying to bolster his approval ratings by hoping to do a modern version of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and trying to do what everyone thought JFK did in 1962 -- escalate, show strength, and get Kruschev to back down. [The reality was that installing Russian missiles in Cuba wasn't Kruschev's aggression -- it was a response to the U.S. previously installing Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey. The crisis ended when JFK & Kruschev both agreed to remove their missiles from each other's doorsteps.]

Former U.S. Intelligence Officer & Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter has a compelling article on what's happening. I think it's worth adding to your Foreign Policy reading list.
The Ultimate End of NATO

If I were Joe, I'd take the deal -- promise that NATO won't include Ukraine, and send everyone home to watch the rest of the Olympics in peace. But that's just me, apparently.

---

No, its not just you. Most conservatives today have also decided that what's most important is that Putin's view of the world be put forward and that we all appease Putin.

Nevermind that Putin has invaded 2 neighbors already and interfered in our election. Nevermind that even if we took the appeasement deal, as you suggest and which our ally Ukraine is opposed, Putin would continue his campaign to control Ukraine through a proxy, just as he does Belarus and other neighbors.

We need to stop appeasing Putin. We need to draw a hard line through sanctions and other financial means. We need to start supporting American interests and not white nationalist oligarch interests.

---

The Ukraine is a white nationalist oligarch regime, rated as the second most corrupt regime in Europe after Russia, which is why it is not being admitted to NATO. What you call is appeasement is the reality of the US and European alliance- nobody is fighting for Ukraine or admitting them to NATO. Working out some guarantee of sovereignty while admitting this is the goal of the French, Germans and Ukrainians. Let them do it.

Sanctions have been useless as a deterrent since Obama.The real leverage against Putin will only happen with energy politics. Germany- which has to be the only country in the world that put climate interests above its own interests- shut down their nuclear plants and stopped burning their coal. This was a mortal wound and a boon to Putin that now holds them hostage. The Nord pipeline only extends this dependence. They need to do something contrary.

Anarchistbear said:

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dajo9 said:

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cbbass1 said:

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For the Ukraine-Russia issue, I strongly encourage you to limit your weighting of U.S. legacy/corporate/mainstream media to 15% or less.

Yes, Putin put lots of troops at Ukraine's border. No, Putin has no interest in an invasion of Ukraine. He does, however, have an interest in

• letting the U.S. do what it does -- threaten, posture, and escalate;
• revealing how little the U.S. actually cares about its European allies and their interests;
• revealing how much more the U.S. cares about using its military might to bully other nations;
• revealing the degree to which the U.S. war hawks and defense industry titans drive an aggressive, belligerent U.S. foreign policy;
• driving a wedge between the U.S. and its NATO allies in Europe;
• showing that the U.S. & NATO are the aggressor in Eastern Europe -- not [so much] Russia;
• strengthening economic bonds between Russia and Europe... and China, and... ROW;
• revealing to the ROW that the U.S. is in steep decline as a nation, and no longer capable of being a responsible leader;
• making the case against the USD remaining as the world's reserve currency, just as the U.S. is in the terminal phase of a massive credit bubble.

If you read through the Joint Statement between the Russian Federation & China from a few days ago, it's clear that everything Putin & Xi are aiming for evaporates if Russia invades Ukraine.

Biden is, predictably, trying to bolster his approval ratings by hoping to do a modern version of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and trying to do what everyone thought JFK did in 1962 -- escalate, show strength, and get Kruschev to back down. [The reality was that installing Russian missiles in Cuba wasn't Kruschev's aggression -- it was a response to the U.S. previously installing Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey. The crisis ended when JFK & Kruschev both agreed to remove their missiles from each other's doorsteps.]

Former U.S. Intelligence Officer & Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter has a compelling article on what's happening. I think it's worth adding to your Foreign Policy reading list.
The Ultimate End of NATO

If I were Joe, I'd take the deal -- promise that NATO won't include Ukraine, and send everyone home to watch the rest of the Olympics in peace. But that's just me, apparently.

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No, its not just you. Most conservatives today have also decided that what's most important is that Putin's view of the world be put forward and that we all appease Putin.

Nevermind that Putin has invaded 2 neighbors already and interfered in our election. Nevermind that even if we took the appeasement deal, as you suggest and which our ally Ukraine is opposed, Putin would continue his campaign to control Ukraine through a proxy, just as he does Belarus and other neighbors.

We need to stop appeasing Putin. We need to draw a hard line through sanctions and other financial means. We need to start supporting American interests and not white nationalist oligarch interests.

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The Ukraine is a white nationalist oligarch regime, rated as the second most corrupt regime in Europe after Russia, which is why it is not being admitted to NATO. What you call is appeasement is the reality of the US and European alliance- nobody is fighting for Ukraine or admitting them to NATO. Working out some guarantee of sovereignty while admitting this is the goal of the French, Germans and Ukrainians. Let them do it.

Sanctions have been useless as a deterrent since Obama.The real leverage against Putin will only happen with energy politics. Germany- which has to be the only country in the world that put climate interests above its own interests- shut down their nuclear plants and stopped burning their coal. This was a mortal wound and a boon to Putin that now holds them hostage. The Nord pipeline only extends this dependence. They need to do something contrary.

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Thank you for sharing more Putin propaganda with us. You are describing Ukraine before their 2014 revolution and before their democratic election of 2019. Not saying Ukraine is perfect but it is making huge strides towards openness and freedom.

Putin does not get a say on who is in and who is out of NATO. There is no guarantee of sovereignty from this deal. Putin will continue to try to insert a proxy into Ukraine. The U.S. and NATO need to be firm with Putin who has already invaded neighbors twice and interfered in our elections. The reason why Putin is vulnerable to sanctions is because he runs his country as an oligarchy. This isn't about sanctioning Russia. It's about sanctioning Putin and his oligarch friends. No appeasement.