The Official Russian Invasion of Ukraine Thread

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oski003
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In reply to blungld • 6:54a, 4/23/24
blungld said:
Palestinian Chicken said:
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
He thinks he gets to assert a bunch of unnamed experts that he "knows" and then demand other people's credentials
How about this. Let's ignore all my nonexistent make believe experts. They don't exist.

I'm only asking what your expertise and experience is so that we know how credible YOU are and why we should take YOUR opinions seriously. The fact that you don't want to answer and have dodged this now 4 times says a lot. But other than keyboard warrior, what is your educational degree and career experience in history, political science, foreign relations, etc? I would think you would want to tell us so that we knew how well informed you were and so that when you contradict people like Dr. Snyder we have reason to listen and understand that you know more than he does.

Going to answer or just keeping being a big baby?


Wow, a name caller. How appropriate of you.

Over the course of this thread, the NATO experts and Bidenistas have been proven wrong again and again. Multiple times, after being wrong over and over again, they simply assert, "Russia lost when they got stopped marching on Kyiv and repeatedly mock Russia for not winning the war immediately as some sort of trump card that negates the fact that Ukraine has been getting its butt kicked ever since and has suffered immensely because of this war. Remember the 49ers traded the 12th overall pick in 2021, a third-round pick in 2022, a first-round pick in 2022 and a first-round pick in 2023 to get Trey Lance who is struggling to be a backup. They drafted Pro Bowl QB Purdy in the 7th round in 2022. People get it wrong.
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Eastern Oregon Bear
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In reply to oski003 • 9:00a, 4/23/24
oski003 said:
blungld said:
Palestinian Chicken said:
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
He thinks he gets to assert a bunch of unnamed experts that he "knows" and then demand other people's credentials
How about this. Let's ignore all my nonexistent make believe experts. They don't exist.

I'm only asking what your expertise and experience is so that we know how credible YOU are and why we should take YOUR opinions seriously. The fact that you don't want to answer and have dodged this now 4 times says a lot. But other than keyboard warrior, what is your educational degree and career experience in history, political science, foreign relations, etc? I would think you would want to tell us so that we knew how well informed you were and so that when you contradict people like Dr. Snyder we have reason to listen and understand that you know more than he does.

Going to answer or just keeping being a big baby?


Wow, a name caller. How appropriate of you.

Over the course of this thread, the NATO experts and Bidenistas have been proven wrong again and again. Multiple times, after being wrong over and over again, they simply assert, "Russia lost when they got stopped marching on Kyiv and repeatedly mock Russia for not winning the war immediately as some sort of trump card that negates the fact that Ukraine has been getting its butt kicked ever since and has suffered immensely because of this war. Remember the 49ers traded the 12th overall pick in 2021, a third-round pick in 2022, a first-round pick in 2022 and a first-round pick in 2023 to get Trey Lance who is struggling to be a backup. They drafted Pro Bowl QB Purdy in the 7th round in 2022. People get it wrong.
This war has been like Michigan versus Portland State going to 4 overtimes.
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Cal88
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9:36a, 4/23/24
It's more like a game where the scoreboard is hidden, 500k-600k Ukrainian KIAs vs 50k-75k Russians.
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dajo9
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In reply to Cal88 • 9:50a, 4/23/24
Cal88 said:
It's more like a game where the scoreboard is hidden, 500k-600k Ukrainian KIAs vs 50k-75k Russians.
I guess you are a big believer that the U.S. won the Iraq War.
American Vermin
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Cal88
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In reply to dajo9 • 10:28a, 4/23/24
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
It's more like a game where the scoreboard is hidden, 500k-600k Ukrainian KIAs vs 50k-75k Russians.
I guess you are a big believer that the U.S. won the Iraq War.

I am also a big believer that Putin is still alive.
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oski003
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In reply to dajo9 • 10:30a, 4/23/24
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
It's more like a game where the scoreboard is hidden, 500k-600k Ukrainian KIAs vs 50k-75k Russians.
I guess you are a big believer that the U.S. won the Iraq War.


Iraq certainly didn't win it. Maybe we should direct the computer to play tic tac toe against itself.
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oski003
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In reply to Eastern Oregon Bear • 10:32a, 4/23/24
Eastern Oregon Bear said:
oski003 said:
blungld said:
Palestinian Chicken said:
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
He thinks he gets to assert a bunch of unnamed experts that he "knows" and then demand other people's credentials
How about this. Let's ignore all my nonexistent make believe experts. They don't exist.

I'm only asking what your expertise and experience is so that we know how credible YOU are and why we should take YOUR opinions seriously. The fact that you don't want to answer and have dodged this now 4 times says a lot. But other than keyboard warrior, what is your educational degree and career experience in history, political science, foreign relations, etc? I would think you would want to tell us so that we knew how well informed you were and so that when you contradict people like Dr. Snyder we have reason to listen and understand that you know more than he does.

Going to answer or just keeping being a big baby?


Wow, a name caller. How appropriate of you.

Over the course of this thread, the NATO experts and Bidenistas have been proven wrong again and again. Multiple times, after being wrong over and over again, they simply assert, "Russia lost when they got stopped marching on Kyiv and repeatedly mock Russia for not winning the war immediately as some sort of trump card that negates the fact that Ukraine has been getting its butt kicked ever since and has suffered immensely because of this war. Remember the 49ers traded the 12th overall pick in 2021, a third-round pick in 2022, a first-round pick in 2022 and a first-round pick in 2023 to get Trey Lance who is struggling to be a backup. They drafted Pro Bowl QB Purdy in the 7th round in 2022. People get it wrong.
This war has been like Michigan versus Portland State going to 4 overtimes.


If Portland state borrowed free players from Alabama and Ohio State who are starting to need their players back because they have games to play themselves.
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bearister
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12:50p, 4/23/24
Iran was the biggest beneficiary of the Iraq Invasion because it effectively castrated the country in the Middle East that was an effective counterweight to Iran's power and ambition.*

*I suppose Israeli German made Dolphin Class subs chock full of cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads qualifies as a counterweight as well.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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dajo9
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In reply to Palestinian Chicken • 12:53p, 4/23/24
Palestinian Chicken said:
dajo9 said:
Cal88 said:
It's more like a game where the scoreboard is hidden, 500k-600k Ukrainian KIAs vs 50k-75k Russians.
I guess you are a big believer that the U.S. won the Iraq War.
Is this what you admitting you were wrong looks like?


What was I wrong about?
American Vermin
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Cal88
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2:50p, 4/23/24




"WARSAW - PANIC AT THE UKRAINIAN CONSULATE.
Ukrainians storm the Warsaw consulate.

There are huge queues at the Warsaw passport center after the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry's decision to stop providing consular services to men.

Men do not receive ready-made passports, under the pretext that "the system does not work". Everything works for children and women.

Earlier, the Ukrainian consulate in Poland confirmed that it had suspended the provision of services to men of conscription age.

Isn't democracy magnificent? Governments force their citizens to go and be massacred to defend the interests of the ruling oligarchy. Nothing has changed since the Middle Ages..."
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cbbass1
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In reply to blungld • 3:03p, 4/23/24
blungld said:
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
Again, let's review. The question is what are YOUR credentials. Try and follow.
My applicable qualification for this discussion is that I can recognize when I'm being propagandized, and when Consent is being Manufactured.


Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media, by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky

In this pathbreaking work, now with a new introduction, Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky show that, contrary to the usual image of the news media as cantankerous, obstinate, and ubiquitous in their search for truth and defense of justice, in their actual practice they defend the economic, social, and political agendas of the privileged groups that dominate domestic society, the state, and the global order.

Based on a series of case studies - including the media's dichotomous treatment of "worthy" versus "unworthy" victims, "legitimizing" and "meaningless" Third World elections, and devastating critiques of media coverage of the US wars against Indochina - Herman and Chomsky draw on decades of criticism and research to propose a Propaganda Model to explain the media's behavior and performance. Their new introduction updates the Propaganda Model and the earlier case studies, and it discusses several other applications.


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Unit2Sucks
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3:45p, 4/23/24
Today marks the 20th anniversary of the "Treaty between Ukraine and the Russian Federation on the Ukrainian-Russian State border" was ratified.

Despite Putin signing the treaty, he never had any intention of abiding by it.

The natural response for people who amplify Putin's propaganda is to point to the Minsk agreements, which they also claim to bind Ukraine but not Russia (which is false) and that Ukraine and the west violated it but Russia didn't (also false) because they claim Russia didn't sign it (which is false).

A ceasefire or treaty with Putin is meaningless. Ukraine has had plenty of them but it didn't stop Putin's criminal invasion and it wouldn't stop a future one if Putin decided he wanted to get something that wasn't his.
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sycasey
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In reply to cbbass1 • 4:16p, 4/23/24
cbbass1 said:
blungld said:
Zippergate said:
Who are these experts of yours? Are we supposed to just take your word for it?
Many publicly-recognized foreign policy experts warned against the exact policies the US/NATO have pursued and it has played out as they predicted: conflict. On the other side, the neocons have been given carte blanche to dictate our foreign policy and gotten us into one hot mess after another. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps your prejudices have caused you to support actions that in the end have been catastrophic for the Ukrainian people? The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.
Again, let's review. The question is what are YOUR credentials. Try and follow.
My applicable qualification for this discussion is that I can recognize when I'm being propagandized, and when Consent is being Manufactured.
Propaganda and manufacturing consent doesn't only happen in Western media.
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blungld
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In reply to Palestinian Chicken • 4:51p, 4/23/24
Palestinian Chicken said:
I already established why I knew more than him cause I said before the war that Ukraine had no chance to win and he insisted that they were winning. He lied about Nazis to Congress. He lied about Russiagate. All the pieces of paper can't change that, no matter how much you think they trump a guy being wrong and a liar.
Take #5: The question is what is YOUR level of education and career experience in history, foreign relations, diplomacy etc and NOT do you think in your head that you know more than other people or do you believe you have owned people you call "so-called experts" or how awesome are you or how smart do you think you are or have you ever been right about something.

Are you going to answer the question or keep pretending that you don't know how questions work?
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movielover
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7:37p, 4/24/24
The good professor makes a few points I haven't heard before. Short & sweet video, to the point, 5 minutes.

- Biden was a well-known Ukraine hawk
- Dec 17, 2021 - two months before war broke out, Putin penned a letter to NATO & USA proposing ways to avoid war. We were uninterested
- We have the Monroe Doctine, why wouldn't similiar logic apply to Russia, a great power?
- Russia had no interest in Ukraine or Crimea prior to 2014



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Cal88
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In reply to blungld • 8:10p, 4/24/24
blungld said:
Palestinian Chicken said:
I already established why I knew more than him cause I said before the war that Ukraine had no chance to win and he insisted that they were winning. He lied about Nazis to Congress. He lied about Russiagate. All the pieces of paper can't change that, no matter how much you think they trump a guy being wrong and a liar.
Take #5: The question is what is YOUR level of education and career experience in history, foreign relations, diplomacy etc and NOT do you think in your head that you know more than other people or do you believe you have owned people you call "so-called experts" or how awesome are you or how smart do you think you are or have you ever been right about something.

Are you going to answer the question or keep pretending that you don't know how questions work?

None of the people you follow "outrank" a Mearsheimer or a Jeffrey Sachs in terms of professional competence, experience and expertise.

But more importantly, your main guy has been completely wrong on nearly all aspects of this war, almost comically so, while Mearsheimer and co have been proven right.

Furthermore, your experts are part of the military-industrial complex and as proponents of endless war, have little concern for human life.
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blungld
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:31a, 4/25/24
Cal88 said:
blungld said:
Palestinian Chicken said:
I already established why I knew more than him cause I said before the war that Ukraine had no chance to win and he insisted that they were winning. He lied about Nazis to Congress. He lied about Russiagate. All the pieces of paper can't change that, no matter how much you think they trump a guy being wrong and a liar.
Take #5: The question is what is YOUR level of education and career experience in history, foreign relations, diplomacy etc and NOT do you think in your head that you know more than other people or do you believe you have owned people you call "so-called experts" or how awesome are you or how smart do you think you are or have you ever been right about something.

Are you going to answer the question or keep pretending that you don't know how questions work?

None of the people you follow "outrank" a Mearsheimer or a Jeffrey Sachs in terms of professional competence, experience and expertise.

But more importantly, your main guy has been completely wrong on nearly all aspects of this war, almost comically so, while Mearsheimer and co have been proven right.

Furthermore, your experts are part of the military-industrial complex and as proponents of endless war, have little concern for human life.
Oh look, another person who doesn't understand questions. I didn't ask can you discredit a person whose opinion I referenced or tell me whose opinion you prefer. I asked for the sock puppet to say what his/hers personal education and experience is in politics, foreign relations, Ukraine, history, etc. This is always the pattern, those on the right on these boards seem entirely incapable of directly answering a question.
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Zippergate
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In reply to blungld • 4:42p, 4/25/24
Masters degree in International Relations but not involved in the field. Hardly qualifies me for anything but then again neither I nor any of the neocon skeptics here are asking anyone to believe us because of our credentials. Speaking of which, what are YOUR credentials? Sorry, having relatives there means nothing. Knowing someone regardless of their credentials means nothing. Less than nothing actually since you are obviously biased and blinded by anti-Russian animus.

The real experts, the ones you have no use for, have had it right. Meanwhile, your neocons get it wrong again and again. It's called SCOREBOARD.



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Big C
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In reply to Zippergate • 5:23p, 4/25/24
Zippergate said:
Masters degree in International Relations but not involved in the field. Hardly qualifies me for anything but then again neither I nor any of the neocon skeptics here are asking anyone to believe us because of our credentials. Speaking of which, what are YOUR credentials? Sorry, having relatives there means nothing. Knowing someone regardless of their credentials means nothing. Less than nothing actually since you are obviously biased and blinded by anti-Russian animus.

The real experts, the ones you have no use for, have had it right. Meanwhile, your neocons get it wrong again and again. It's called SCOREBOARD.




"Knowing someone" can absolutely mean something, although it doesn't necessarily, in and of itself.

I feel like my perspective on this situation was absolutely broadened and enriched by the Ukrainian immigrants to the US that I have known for over 25 years. Just knowing about their ethnic mix alone (Ukranian vs. Russian) has given me a lot of insight into the situation there (which Cal88 talks about a lot).
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Cal88
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12:34p, 4/26/24



In English:

"There are observers who have been warning for months and pointing out again and again that Ukraine cannot win the war militarily, but that its position will continue to deteriorate over time. Most of these warning voices did not do so out of sympathy for Putin, but out of compassion for the suffering of ordinary soldiers who are being senselessly sacrificed and whose families are being destroyed.

I am firmly convinced of that. The MSM did not want to hear it. Even the many "real" experts among these voices, i.e. historians, political scientists, sociologists, some of whom have very good knowledge of the country and also speak Ukrainian/Russian very well, some even as native speakers, were largely ignored. There was radio silence, many were completely ignored. A failure of the major media that leaves one speechless."
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 1:05p, 4/26/24
A vastly outnumbered Ukranian brigade retreated from a battle.

And Russia will add 200K new soldiers this summer for a new offensive?

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bear2034
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1:27p, 4/26/24


Looks like Ukraine has enough able-bodied men to fight the war.
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blungld
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In reply to Zippergate • 7:54a
Zippergate said:
Masters degree in International Relations but not involved in the field. Hardly qualifies me for anything but then again neither I nor any of the neocon skeptics here are asking anyone to believe us because of our credentials. Speaking of which, what are YOUR credentials? Sorry, having relatives there means nothing. Knowing someone regardless of their credentials means nothing. Less than nothing actually since you are obviously biased and blinded by anti-Russian animus.

The real experts, the ones you have no use for, have had it right. Meanwhile, your neocons get it wrong again and again. It's called SCOREBOARD.


I have zero professional or educational credentials in politics and never claimed to. I have reported information told to me by experts in the field who are family and close friends who work in US government and Polish government. As it relates to Ukraine, I am half Ukrainian and followed their politics my entire adult life, have travelled there and have many family members living there.
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movielover
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In reply to blungld • 9:32a
Do any of them speak glowingly of Banderas?
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Cal88
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In reply to movielover • 9:55a
movielover said:
Do any of them speak glowingly of Banderas?

I suspect none of these experts or state operatives came anywhere close to correctly predicting the outcome of this war either.

Some however like the Kagans, Grahams and Snyders knew all along the damage their neocon policies would inflict on Ukraine, but they only see that country as a tool to weaken or dismantle Russia, and even there that policy has been an abject failure.

Once again, the tl;dr of this whole 250 page thread:
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movielover
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In reply to Cal88 • 10:01a
Most probably know now the war is lost.

Even more sick and sinister is that these cheerleaders will sacrifice another 100K or 200K men, and more of Ukraine's territory, for what purposes?

For Biden's hopeful re-election, money for the military industrial complex, a percentage for graft in Ukraine, and lobbyist dollars here.
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DiabloWags
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In reply to movielover • 11:29a
Where's Cricket?
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
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The Ghoul
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In reply to sycasey • 12:06p
sycasey said:
Navalny being a good or bad person is immaterial. The issue is that Putin has any and all political opposition killed.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/8mddYUccA9cAAAAC/wrong-drumpf.gif



Actually the issue is that once again, the pro-war Dumbocrats have shown us yet again that they will fall for any bit of pro-war propaganda no matter how little evidence is behind the claim.

I'll never understand how a guy can be so consistently wrong about this war and yet so completely arrogant at the same time despite every single thing he's said about the war being wrong.
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