There's a good reason why they're called Donorcycles.

As a sport bike owner (Yamaha YZF-600) who gave up riding on the street after 15 years, I'm not so sure why this mortality rate is that surprising. The odds are so stacked against you, it's not even worth taking the chance anymore.

And believe it or not, there are a ton of States where you are not required to wear a helmet if you are 18 and older. That's probably a factor as well. I got away with that while riding back in CT for several years when my buddies and I would take a short trip over to the beach.

I used to ride over to Cal for football games on my bike so I could enjoy the free parking.
The only "enjoyable" part of the ride was going up and over the tunnel on Fish Ranch Rd to Claremont Ave.

Motorcycle helmet laws by state (iihs.org)

smh said:

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many decades ago on many weekends my chula vista vista neighbors, parents, brother and myself enjoyed recreational dirt biking in the local hills, or further east in the desert. sometimes we spilled, but never got seriously hurt. until the time a helmetless buddy died rounding a corner w/o a helmet.
# live and learn

I'm never getting on a ferry again pic.twitter.com/v5RN57VYZw

— Ashlee Vance (@ashleevance) May 23, 2022

^ pic inside

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Nothing new. During my driver's education class in 1975 my crusty old teacher, basketball coach blurted out, "if you ever have a kid, and you want to kill him, buy him a motorcycle". He wasn't joking, he was giving us fatherly advice. He was an ass. Jerry Phillips. Maybe some of you have heard of him. SH basketball coach of many years.

82gradDLSdad said:

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smh said:

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many decades ago on many weekends my chula vista vista neighbors, parents, brother and myself enjoyed recreational dirt biking in the local hills, or further east in the desert. sometimes we spilled, but never got seriously hurt. until the time a helmetless buddy died rounding a corner w/o a helmet.
# live and learn

I'm never getting on a ferry again pic.twitter.com/v5RN57VYZw

— Ashlee Vance (@ashleevance) May 23, 2022

^ pic inside

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Nothing new. During my driver's education class in 1975 my crusty old teacher, basketball coach blurted out, "if you ever have a kid, and you want to kill him, buy him a motorcycle". He wasn't joking, he was giving us fatherly advice. He was an ass. Jerry Phillips. Maybe some of you have heard of him. SH basketball coach of many years.

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The dude who taught my driver's training course had previously suffered a nasty fall on his bike. He taught driver safety in part to help protect motorcyclists and in part to convince people never to ride motorcycles. I love cycling and would love to get a motorcycle but can't get over the fact that any accident/mistake is one you may not walk away from.

Unit2Sucks said:

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The dude who taught my driver's training course had previously suffered a nasty fall on his bike. He taught driver safety in part to help protect motorcyclists and in part to convince people never to ride motorcycles. I love cycling and would love to get a motorcycle but can't get over the fact that any accident/mistake is one you may not walk away from.

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I grew up with mini-bikes and dirt bikes in the 70's in the East Bay.
Even used to attend the Trans-AMA MX races at Carnegie Cycle Park in Livermore and then up at Sears Pt.

Swore that I'd never ever get a street bike, but I did when I lived in CT in my late 30's.
Rode in all kinds of conditions and got away with "it" because there wasnt the volume of cars that we have here in the Bay Area.

Like I mentioned before, I would ride over to CAL for football games and water polo matches and enjoyed the easy free parking on Bancroft. But invariably, by the time I got home I was exhausted and part of that was because riding defensively (always being in the right gear, checking blind spots, riding aggressively to stay out of bad situations, etc.) can take a mental and physical toll on you.

My younger brother has 4 KTM's including a 1290.
The key is to always ride with someone and get away from the congestion in the Bay Area.
That way, you have half a chance of not going down.

A cousin was an ER nurse in a city in the Midwest for several years. She said during night shifts, most of the cases were motorcycle accidents or gunshot wounds.

During Covid, I had someone build me a 1981 Maico 490 from the ground up so that I could "revisit" my younger days . . .
This was the 2-stroke King back in 1981.

smh said:

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many decades ago on weekends my chula vista neighbors, parents, brother and myself enjoyed recreational dirt biking in the local hills, or further east in the desert. sometimes we spilled, but never got seriously hurt. until the time a helmetless buddy died rounding a corner ~20mph w/o a helmet.
# live and learn

I'm never getting on a ferry again pic.twitter.com/v5RN57VYZw

— Ashlee Vance (@ashleevance) May 23, 2022

^ pic inside

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Would be interesting to see this data per trip. I feel like airplanes get are getting a free pass here because they fly a lot of miles but the real danger is in takeoff and landing.

That's awesome. I had some friends with access to a dirt bike I rode briefly when I was a kid. Would love to try it again. I mountain bike as much as I can and would probably enjoy a dirt bike ride once in a while!

From the actual WaPo article:

"A motorcyclist who traveled 15 miles every day for a year, had an astonishing 1 in 860 chance of dying," Savage wrote. "The rate per passenger mile was 29 times that for automobiles and light trucks." By contrast, "A person who took a 500 mile flight every single day for a year would have a fatality risk of 1 in 85,000."

One more important finding from Savage's research: Fatality rates across all modes of transport have fallen considerably in recent decades. "By almost any measure, transportation is considerably safer now than it was in the mid 1970s," he concludes. "The improvement is especially noticeable for commercial modes such as aviation, railroads and maritime. Even the risks of private highway driving have halved during the past thirty-five years."

Unit2Sucks said:

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That's awesome. I had some friends with access to a dirt bike I rode briefly when I was a kid. Would love to try it again. I mountain bike as much as I can and would probably enjoy a dirt bike ride once in a while!

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There's been a revival over the last 15 years of guys in their 50's and 60's when it comes to 2-stroke motocross bikes.

There are even races organized and designed for the Vintage Class for these bikes. The Vintage Class is for everything year 1974 and earlier. There's also a class called Evo for bikes built after that. In fact, one of the tracks that hosts vintage races is up in Marysville right next to the Yuba River. You can see it when you drive by on HWY 70. It's prepared really nice by a great group of people who have everyone's safety as their #1 interest.

Sadly, there's no such thing as a Green Sticker CARB compliant 2-stroke in California these days.
They've literally been outlawed, except for use on a private track.
4-strokes only.

I started out with this Italian beauty in high school:



This was the 1982 model, I had a late 70s version with Marzochi springs and a slightly shorter fork

Had that while in grad schools at Cal circa early 90s:

Cal88 said:

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I started out with this Italian beauty in high school:



This was the 1982 model, I had a late 70s version with Marzochi springs and a slightly shorter fork

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Is that a Fantic?

Yes, Fantic Motor Caballero enduro. 125cc body, but with an 80cc, you had to be 18 to ride a semi-street-legal 125cc.

That Maico looks great!

Cal88 said:

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Yes, Fantic Motor Caballero enduro. 125cc body, but with an 80cc, you had to be 18 to ride a semi-street-legal 125cc.

That Maico looks great!

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Growing up, I started out on a Taco 22 mini-bike that my Dad bought from our local lawnmower shop. It had a Briggs & Stratton 3 horsepower engine. From that, I would ride my best friend's Honda XR-75. He lived up the street and we had a small track in his backyard. We would ride lap after lap and never get tired or bored. I dont know if you could have more fun for only $310 back in 1973. It was incredible!

After that, I bought a 1975 Honda CR-125 Elsinore and then a 1977 Suzuki RM-125.

I raced the RM-125 up at Argyll Cycle Park in Dixon. I got the "holeshot" in the first moto and wound up running in 3rd or 4th position until I crashed. I was parked on the side of the track trying to re-start my bike with my bike in the opposite direction when another guy was heading straight for me totally out of control. He clipped my right leg and I wound up with a broken first metatarsal on my right foot. - - - When I got home, my Mom said "No more Racing!"

The 125 Novice Class was literally the most "unsafe" class at the track.
28 kids completely out of control.
lol




Taco 22

DiabloWags said:

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Cal88 said:

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Yes, Fantic Motor Caballero enduro. 125cc body, but with an 80cc, you had to be 18 to ride a semi-street-legal 125cc.

That Maico looks great!

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Growing up, I started out on a Taco 22 mini-bike that my Dad bought from our local lawnmower shop. It had a Briggs & Stratton 3 horsepower engine. From that, I would ride my best friend's Honda XR-75. He lived up the street and we had a small track in his backyard. We would ride lap after lap and never get tired or bored. I dont know if you could have more fun for only $310 back in 1973. It was incredible!

After that, I bought a 1975 Honda CR-125 Elsinore and then a 1977 Suzuki RM-125.

I raced the RM-125 up at Argyll Cycle Park in Dixon. I got the "holeshot" in the first moto and wound up running in 3rd or 4th position until I crashed. I was parked on the side of the track trying to re-start my bike with my bike in the opposite direction when another guy was heading straight for me totally out of control. He clipped my right leg and I wound up with a broken first metatarsal on my right foot. - - - When I got home, my Mom said "No more Racing!"

The 125 Novice Class was literally the most "unsafe" class at the track.
28 kids completely out of control.
lol




Taco 22

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I guess you weren't wearing steel-toed MX boots when you broke your toe? Must have been painful.

I was lucky enough to never have a serious crash, but got into a few hairy situations, once coming down a bit too fast on the right turn from Euclid onto Hearst, slipped on an oil patch, jammed my right ankle pretty hard between the XL600R and the pavement. The driver behind me barely avoided me swerving away and driving right past me, as did the next few cars... Thankfully my ankle wasn't broken, just badly injured, thanks to the Durango boots purchased from that shoe store on Telegraph.

Believe it or not Cal-88, I was decked out in full MX gear with Lancer leathers and top of the line steel toe boots.
It didnt matter, because the guy that hit me wound up clipping me and pressing my foot into the side-case of my engine.

Ouch!

DiabloWags said:

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From the actual WaPo article:

"A motorcyclist who traveled 15 miles every day for a year, had an astonishing 1 in 860 chance of dying," Savage wrote. "The rate per passenger mile was 29 times that for automobiles and light trucks." By contrast, "A person who took a 500 mile flight every single day for a year would have a fatality risk of 1 in 85,000."

One more important finding from Savage's research: Fatality rates across all modes of transport have fallen considerably in recent decades. "By almost any measure, transportation is considerably safer now than it was in the mid 1970s," he concludes. "The improvement is especially noticeable for commercial modes such as aviation, railroads and maritime. Even the risks of private highway driving have halved during the past thirty-five years."

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1) anyone know what these new 3-wheel bikes are like safety/injury-wise?

2) maybe motorcycles should be looked at in same light as guns in terms of causing death.

Sophomore year high school. Max speed 30 mph.
I crashed one time when my binder was blowing in the wind in the basket. I looked down to fix and hit a storm drain curb. Over handlebars. Not hurt.

Long before that, I used to ride my bmx bike all over Montclair.

Years later, I have a step-nephew who was riding his bike to soccer practice in Boulder and was killed by an SUV.

I'd never ride a motorcycle, no longer enjoy riding my bike, and would not let my kids ride bikes to school.

I was amazed that bikes were not on the opening stats graphic.

concordtom said:

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DiabloWags said:

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From the actual WaPo article:

"A motorcyclist who traveled 15 miles every day for a year, had an astonishing 1 in 860 chance of dying," Savage wrote. "The rate per passenger mile was 29 times that for automobiles and light trucks." By contrast, "A person who took a 500 mile flight every single day for a year would have a fatality risk of 1 in 85,000."

One more important finding from Savage's research: Fatality rates across all modes of transport have fallen considerably in recent decades. "By almost any measure, transportation is considerably safer now than it was in the mid 1970s," he concludes. "The improvement is especially noticeable for commercial modes such as aviation, railroads and maritime. Even the risks of private highway driving have halved during the past thirty-five years."

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1) anyone know what these new 3-wheel bikes are like safety/injury-wise?

2) maybe motorcycles should be looked at in same light as guns in terms of causing death.

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1) The 3-wheel bikes like the CanAm Spyder combine the worst of both worlds, all the inconveniences of motorcycles without any of the conveniences of a car (that includes safety). They're an overpriced product for a specific market, boomers who are no longer fit or hardy enough to enjoy riding a regular bike.

2) Insurance rates do reflect the higher risks associated with riding, and that is good enough.

Cal88 said:

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concordtom said:

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DiabloWags said:

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From the actual WaPo article:

"A motorcyclist who traveled 15 miles every day for a year, had an astonishing 1 in 860 chance of dying," Savage wrote. "The rate per passenger mile was 29 times that for automobiles and light trucks." By contrast, "A person who took a 500 mile flight every single day for a year would have a fatality risk of 1 in 85,000."

One more important finding from Savage's research: Fatality rates across all modes of transport have fallen considerably in recent decades. "By almost any measure, transportation is considerably safer now than it was in the mid 1970s," he concludes. "The improvement is especially noticeable for commercial modes such as aviation, railroads and maritime. Even the risks of private highway driving have halved during the past thirty-five years."

---

1) anyone know what these new 3-wheel bikes are like safety/injury-wise?

2) maybe motorcycles should be looked at in same light as guns in terms of causing death.

---

1) The 3-wheel bikes like the CanAm Spyder combine the worst of both worlds, all the inconveniences of motorcycles without any of the conveniences of a car (that includes safety). They're an overpriced product for a specific market, boomers who are no longer fit or hardy enough to enjoy riding a regular bike.

2) Insurance rates do reflect the higher risks associated with riding, and that is good enough.

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Te three wheel bikes have more stability, no?

I learned to ride a motorcycle, took the required training classes, got my license and would ride my friend's at Berkeley from time to time. There is just an amazing sense of closeness to the road and freedom that cannot be replicated with any other vehicle. But as I got older and moved to Cambridge, the risk just outweighed the joy. But I get why some people of passionate about it. I am just more risk averse than I was in college.

Unit2Sucks said:

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That's awesome. I had some friends with access to a dirt bike I rode briefly when I was a kid. Would love to try it again. I mountain bike as much as I can and would probably enjoy a dirt bike ride once in a while!

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If you want to get back into it, I would recommend getting a new Honda CRF300 or a Suzuki DRS400, both cheap, very hardy, low maintenance, light, easy to ride dual-sport street legal bikes that are also well-suited for inexperienced riders.

Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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That's awesome. I had some friends with access to a dirt bike I rode briefly when I was a kid. Would love to try it again. I mountain bike as much as I can and would probably enjoy a dirt bike ride once in a while!

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If you want to get back into it, I would recommend getting a new Honda CRF300 or a Suzuki DRS400, both cheap, very hardy, low maintenance, light, easy to ride dual-sport street legal bikes that are also well-suited for inexperienced riders.

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The last time I rode was when I was in the Bay Area visiting and I took my friend's Ducati Monster. Went pretty slowly and had to remember how to change gears. Almost dropped it when I stopped. That was more than enough for me. Not sure how adept Unit2 is but it is a bit hard to pick it up again.

Definitely not a beginner's bike, your friend is a pretty good friend to let you near it!

Cal88 said:

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Definitely not a beginner's bike, your friend is a pretty good friend to let you near it!

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It is a beautiful bike, and he has a collection. I didn't want to risk it, but he said if I crashed it, he will just convince his wife to let him get a new bike since she likes my wife and me and so she can't get mad at me.

Cal88 said:

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Unit2Sucks said:

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That's awesome. I had some friends with access to a dirt bike I rode briefly when I was a kid. Would love to try it again. I mountain bike as much as I can and would probably enjoy a dirt bike ride once in a while!

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If you want to get back into it, I would recommend getting a new Honda CRF300 or a Suzuki DRS400, both cheap, very hardy, low maintenance, light, easy to ride dual-sport street legal bikes that are also well-suited for inexperienced riders.

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Excellent suggestions!

The Honda CRF-300 and Suzuki DR-Z400 are great dual sport machines for beginners.
I would also recommend the KTM 390 Adventure.

2022 KTM 390 ADVENTURE - TAKE THE LONG WAY HOME - KTM

smh said:

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many decades ago on weekends my chula vista neighbors, parents, brother and myself enjoyed recreational dirt biking in the local hills, or further east in the desert. sometimes we spilled, but never got seriously hurt. until the time a buddy died rounding a corner ~20mph w/o a helmet.
# live and learn

I'm never getting on a ferry again pic.twitter.com/v5RN57VYZw

— Ashlee Vance (@ashleevance) May 23, 2022

^ pic inside

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Instead of per deaths miles traveled I'd like to see deaths per hour spent traveling.