In the early years of Trump, I was horrified, but thought if he were to suddenly die, things would go back to normal.

But now I think the Deplorables movement is vast - wide and deep. I think it's hot legs and there's a decent chance we are in for it for decades.
I am entirely uninspired by the idiot MAGAs who post here, the voter polls, and are elected officials on Capitol Hill who look truth in the face and say "alternative facts". It's like "WOW!" I simply can't believe what I'm seeing, hearing and reading. Shocking!

* Is it race based?
Obama's election as the first non-white seems to be a foundation here. The most obvious thing is Birtherism, but it's beyond that lie.

* Is it Conservative Christians and the taking over the Supreme Court?
Victory at all costs, despite the utter hypocrisy. Well done Mitch McConnell and those secret financial backers.

* Is it the new brazen nature of media?
Foxnews used to be much more tame. Now it's just a salacious entertainment show of outrage and misinformation. Viewers like! We are entertaining ourselves to death. Rush Limbaugh showed everyone else how to behave, and now Fox has competition with OAN and Newsmax on they're right. Journalistic decency and accuracy are a thing of the past.

* Is it the economy, stupid?
Hardly, the economy has been doing just fine, despite the '08 mortgage meltdown and Covid shutdown. See:
-moderate interest rates/inflation.
-near full employment.
-stock market.
-ever improving worker productivity.

* is it the Cult of Personality: Trump?
Again, I've decided he's less of a factor than I previously thought.


Certainly, there must be a book that explains all of it.
Anyone?

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

concordtom said:

---

* is it the Cult of Personality: Trump?



Certainly, there must be a book that explains all of it.
Anyone?

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

This is rich coming from the man who's put out the Twitter welcome mat for the white supremacists and fringe conspiracy theory nutjobs.

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Before: gays should be allowed to marry or at least have the benefits heterosexual married couples have.

After: boys who identify as girls should be allowed to use the girl's bathroom at school while teachers foster this identity without any consultation or notification of the boy's parents while the local public library sponsors events with men dressed as ****ty women making sexual gestures and reading children's books. Pushing back against this is bigoted and non-inclusive.

oski003 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Before: gays should be allowed to marry or at least have the benefits heterosexual married couples have.

After: boys who identify as girls should be allowed to use the girl's bathroom at school while teachers foster this identity without any consultation or notification of the boy's parents while the local public library sponsors events with men dressed as ****ty women making sexual gestures and reading children's books. Pushing back against this is bigoted and non-inclusive.

---

Well, if we're allowing gross exaggerations and representing weird isolated cases as the mainstream political gospel, wait until we get done explaining how the right has gotten more extreme.

You sound like one of those who were saying in 1970 that "(redacted)" should have their asses kicked if they kissed in public. Or, at least, keep that behind closed doors, and don't talk about it.

Maybe in 30 more years you won't find yourself exaggerating like it's some national affliction, either.

Okay, so what else?
You only gave me 1 item. There's gotta be more, right?

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Crime
Wherever we want to say Ds started they are recently at defund the police and no bail for violent crimes.

Abortion
Roe > "abortion should safe, legal and rare" (Clinton) > abortion without limit

Race
Civil Rights Movement > CRT/DEI

LGBT rights
Clinton: "Don't ask, don't tell" > Obama: opposed to gay marriage > the boys bathroom at my kids school have maxi pads in them.

Bill Clinton was a Blue Dog D > Numerous D Congress-persons are self described Socialists.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-democrats-have-shifted-left-over-the-last-30-years/
"First, the data shows that Democrats have indeed become more liberal over time, particularly on questions related to race and immigration."

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/both-white-and-nonwhite-democrats-are-moving-left/#:~:text=Democratic%20voters%20moved%20sharply%20to,it%20is%20among%20Republican%20voters.
"While white Democrats have moved more to the left than nonwhite Democrats have on some issues, both groups have become more liberal since 2012."

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

---

oski003 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Before: gays should be allowed to marry or at least have the benefits heterosexual married couples have.

After: boys who identify as girls should be allowed to use the girl's bathroom at school while teachers foster this identity without any consultation or notification of the boy's parents while the local public library sponsors events with men dressed as ****ty women making sexual gestures and reading children's books. Pushing back against this is bigoted and non-inclusive.

---

Well, if we're allowing gross exaggerations and representing weird isolated cases as the mainstream political gospel, wait until we get done explaining how the right has gotten more extreme.

---

See my 2nd link, above. The Right has moved right; The Left has moved even more to the left

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

This is only accurate if it is meant to represent the skin tones of the candidates of the political parties

tequila4kapp said:

---

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Crime
Wherever we want to say Ds started they are recently at defund the police and no bail for violent crimes.

Abortion
Roe > "abortion should safe, legal and rare" (Clinton) > abortion without limit

Race
Civil Rights Movement > CRT/DEI

LGBT rights
Clinton: "Don't ask, don't tell" > Obama: opposed to gay marriage > the boys bathroom at my kids school have maxi pads in them.

Bill Clinton was a Blue Dog D > Numerous D Congress-persons are self described Socialists.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-democrats-have-shifted-left-over-the-last-30-years/
"First, the data shows that Democrats have indeed become more liberal over time, particularly on questions related to race and immigration."

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/both-white-and-nonwhite-democrats-are-moving-left/#:~:text=Democratic%20voters%20moved%20sharply%20to,it%20is%20among%20Republican%20voters.
"While white Democrats have moved more to the left than nonwhite Democrats have on some issues, both groups have become more liberal since 2012."

---

Much of this is a case of taking the most extreme position from the most low profile Democrats nationally and trying to make hay out of it nationally. The rest of it is just wrong.

Bill Clinton ran and won in 1992 as a Social Democrat, using the current vernacular. He ran on implementing national healthcare and higher taxes on the rich. His abortion position is the same as Democrats have today - safe, rare, and legal.

In the meantime, the Republican Speaker of the House wants to criminalize homosexuality. A city in Tennessee made public gay kissing illegal (since rescinded). Republicans want to shrink Social Security and Medicare. Republicans want illegal immigrants (even Dreamers) rounded up nationally and put in massive camps. They want illegal immigrant children separated from their parents. A sizeable number of Republicans want to defund the FBI and DHS. Many Republicans believe state legislatures solely can choose their Electors for President. Republicans have campaigned on extreme and new campaigns on book banning in schools. Republicans cheer on rhetoric from their leader that calls me vermin and that "liberal Jews voted to destroy America". On foreign policy, Republicans now support autocracies like Russia. They deny climate change exists and they support overturning elections they lose. Republicans support people that attacked our Capitol and undermine our security by releasing video that jeopardizes the safety of Congress. Because if you fail once and aren't punished, you plan better for your 2nd attempt.

I could go on.

You could go on, but I think he presented a list of issues that bother him, from his perspective, and I appreciated that.

Of course, we don't agree, but…

The thread was created to understand the rise of the Deplorables - I think we're getting somewhere:
*Race
*Sex
*Crime
*Immigration
*Identify labels

These aren't economic issues or national defense issues of yesteryear.

concordtom said:

---

You could go on, but I think he presented a list of issues that bother him, from his perspective, and I appreciated that.

Of course, we don't agree, but…

The thread was created to understand the rise of the Deplorables - I think we're getting somewhere:
*Race
*Sex
*Crime
*Immigration
*Identify labels

These aren't economic issues or national defense issues of yesteryear.

---

I think Hillary explained it well in 2016. These racist, sexist, xenophobes were always there but Trump gave them voice and brought them in from the sidelines.

I think a lot of us were surprised by how many there are and by mainstream Republicans being ok with teaming up with them.

But keep in mind, Trump has never won a popular vote and his movement has repeatedly gotten thrashed at the polls.

Once more unto the breach. . .

dajo9 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Crime
Wherever we want to say Ds started they are recently at defund the police and no bail for violent crimes.

Abortion
Roe > "abortion should safe, legal and rare" (Clinton) > abortion without limit

Race
Civil Rights Movement > CRT/DEI

LGBT rights
Clinton: "Don't ask, don't tell" > Obama: opposed to gay marriage > the boys bathroom at my kids school have maxi pads in them.

Bill Clinton was a Blue Dog D > Numerous D Congress-persons are self described Socialists.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-democrats-have-shifted-left-over-the-last-30-years/
"First, the data shows that Democrats have indeed become more liberal over time, particularly on questions related to race and immigration."

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/both-white-and-nonwhite-democrats-are-moving-left/#:~:text=Democratic%20voters%20moved%20sharply%20to,it%20is%20among%20Republican%20voters.
"While white Democrats have moved more to the left than nonwhite Democrats have on some issues, both groups have become more liberal since 2012."

---

Much of this is a case of taking the most extreme position from the most low profile Democrats nationally and trying to make hay out of it nationally. The rest of it is just wrong.

Bill Clinton ran and won in 1992 as a Social Democrat, using the current vernacular. He ran on implementing national healthcare and higher taxes on the rich. His abortion position is the same as Democrats have today - safe, rare, and legal.

In the meantime, the Republican Speaker of the House wants to criminalize homosexuality. *That's terrible.

A city in Tennessee made public gay kissing illegal (since rescinded). *This isn't a movement. Stuff like this has existed for a long time.

Republicans want to shrink Social Security and Medicare. *Not sure how this relates to society not moving further left.

Republicans want illegal immigrants (even Dreamers) rounded up nationally and put in massive camps. *Illegal immigration is a major national issue.

They want illegal immigrant children separated from their parents. *This is way more complicated than simply separating children from parents.

A sizeable number of Republicans want to defund the FBI and DHS. *This resulted from "illegal" wiretaps of trump and his team.


Many Republicans believe state legislatures solely can choose their Electors for President. *resulted from election interference and massive influx of votes counted well after reasonable time-frames which also impacts view of FBI.

Republicans have campaigned on extreme and new campaigns on book banning in schools. *Democrats act like banning a book from an elementary school is akin to outright banning it everywhere. The book is still easily available outside the school.

Republicans cheer on rhetoric from their leader that calls me vermin and that "liberal Jews voted to destroy America". *Democrats cheer on antifa spray-painting antifa everywhere while GFR writes racist stuff which is supposedly justified because he isn't allowed to be racist.


On foreign policy, Republicans now support autocracies like Russia. *They don't. They get accused of supporting Russia by the bullying left if they oppose support of Ukraine.

They deny climate change exists and they support overturning elections they lose. *It exists. They just deny the impact of man's role and question why the us is so constrained while other countries increase emissions.

Republicans support people that attacked our Capitol and undermine our security by releasing video that jeopardizes the safety of Congress. Because if you fail once and aren't punished, you plan better for your 2nd attempt. *The videos they release purport to show that the event wasnt an insurrection as there were no guns, no leader, no organization, no "marching orders," no plan, no junta etc. and there is also evidence that undercover agents worked to escalate the event. Calling it an insurrection and making trump responsible gives the government a weapon against their opponent.

I could go on.

---

oski003 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Crime
Wherever we want to say Ds started they are recently at defund the police and no bail for violent crimes.

Abortion
Roe > "abortion should safe, legal and rare" (Clinton) > abortion without limit

Race
Civil Rights Movement > CRT/DEI

LGBT rights
Clinton: "Don't ask, don't tell" > Obama: opposed to gay marriage > the boys bathroom at my kids school have maxi pads in them.

Bill Clinton was a Blue Dog D > Numerous D Congress-persons are self described Socialists.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-democrats-have-shifted-left-over-the-last-30-years/
"First, the data shows that Democrats have indeed become more liberal over time, particularly on questions related to race and immigration."

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/both-white-and-nonwhite-democrats-are-moving-left/#:~:text=Democratic%20voters%20moved%20sharply%20to,it%20is%20among%20Republican%20voters.
"While white Democrats have moved more to the left than nonwhite Democrats have on some issues, both groups have become more liberal since 2012."

---

Much of this is a case of taking the most extreme position from the most low profile Democrats nationally and trying to make hay out of it nationally. The rest of it is just wrong.

Bill Clinton ran and won in 1992 as a Social Democrat, using the current vernacular. He ran on implementing national healthcare and higher taxes on the rich. His abortion position is the same as Democrats have today - safe, rare, and legal.

In the meantime, the Republican Speaker of the House wants to criminalize homosexuality. *That's terrible.

A city in Tennessee made public gay kissing illegal (since rescinded). *This isn't a movement. Stuff like this has existed for a long time.

Republicans want to shrink Social Security and Medicare. *Not sure how this relates to society not moving further left.

Republicans want illegal immigrants (even Dreamers) rounded up nationally and put in massive camps. *Illegal immigration is a major national issue.

They want illegal immigrant children separated from their parents. *This is way more complicated than simply separating children from parents.

A sizeable number of Republicans want to defund the FBI and DHS. *This resulted from "illegal" wiretaps of trump and his team.


Many Republicans believe state legislatures solely can choose their Electors for President. *resulted from election interference and massive influx of votes counted well after reasonable time-frames which also impacts view of FBI.

Republicans have campaigned on extreme and new campaigns on book banning in schools. *Democrats act like banning a book from an elementary school is akin to outright banning it everywhere. The book is still easily available outside the school.

Republicans cheer on rhetoric from their leader that calls me vermin and that "liberal Jews voted to destroy America". *Democrats cheer on antifa spray-painting antifa everywhere while GFR writes racist stuff which is supposedly justified because he isn't allowed to be racist.


On foreign policy, Republicans now support autocracies like Russia. *They don't. They get accused of supporting Russia by the bullying left if they oppose support of Ukraine.

They deny climate change exists and they support overturning elections they lose. *It exists. They just deny the impact of man's role and question why the us is so constrained while other countries increase emissions.

Republicans support people that attacked our Capitol and undermine our security by releasing video that jeopardizes the safety of Congress. Because if you fail once and aren't punished, you plan better for your 2nd attempt. *The videos they release purport to show that the event wasnt an insurrection as there were no guns, no leader, no organization, no "marching orders," no plan, no junta etc. and there is also evidence that undercover agents worked to escalate the event. Calling it an insurrection and making trump responsible gives the government a weapon against their opponent.

I could go on.

---

---

I want to thank oski003 for confirming all the shifts in Republican policy I have alleged

dajo9 said:

---

oski003 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

tequila4kapp said:

---

concordtom said:

---

oski003 said:

---

pic.twitter.com/Q9OjlJhi7f

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) April 28, 2022

---

I'd love for you to describe for me the policy positions of "the left" which have shifted further left.
Please, because I think it's the right which has done the opposite.

Feel free to make a list with brief descriptions of Before and Now, as you see it.

Thank you in advance.

---

Crime
Wherever we want to say Ds started they are recently at defund the police and no bail for violent crimes.

Abortion
Roe > "abortion should safe, legal and rare" (Clinton) > abortion without limit

Race
Civil Rights Movement > CRT/DEI

LGBT rights
Clinton: "Don't ask, don't tell" > Obama: opposed to gay marriage > the boys bathroom at my kids school have maxi pads in them.

Bill Clinton was a Blue Dog D > Numerous D Congress-persons are self described Socialists.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-the-democrats-have-shifted-left-over-the-last-30-years/
"First, the data shows that Democrats have indeed become more liberal over time, particularly on questions related to race and immigration."

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/both-white-and-nonwhite-democrats-are-moving-left/#:~:text=Democratic%20voters%20moved%20sharply%20to,it%20is%20among%20Republican%20voters.
"While white Democrats have moved more to the left than nonwhite Democrats have on some issues, both groups have become more liberal since 2012."

---

Much of this is a case of taking the most extreme position from the most low profile Democrats nationally and trying to make hay out of it nationally. The rest of it is just wrong.

Bill Clinton ran and won in 1992 as a Social Democrat, using the current vernacular. He ran on implementing national healthcare and higher taxes on the rich. His abortion position is the same as Democrats have today - safe, rare, and legal.

In the meantime, the Republican Speaker of the House wants to criminalize homosexuality. *That's terrible.

A city in Tennessee made public gay kissing illegal (since rescinded). *This isn't a movement. Stuff like this has existed for a long time.

Republicans want to shrink Social Security and Medicare. *Not sure how this relates to society not moving further left.

Republicans want illegal immigrants (even Dreamers) rounded up nationally and put in massive camps. *Illegal immigration is a major national issue.

They want illegal immigrant children separated from their parents. *This is way more complicated than simply separating children from parents.

A sizeable number of Republicans want to defund the FBI and DHS. *This resulted from "illegal" wiretaps of trump and his team.


Many Republicans believe state legislatures solely can choose their Electors for President. *resulted from election interference and massive influx of votes counted well after reasonable time-frames which also impacts view of FBI.

Republicans have campaigned on extreme and new campaigns on book banning in schools. *Democrats act like banning a book from an elementary school is akin to outright banning it everywhere. The book is still easily available outside the school.

Republicans cheer on rhetoric from their leader that calls me vermin and that "liberal Jews voted to destroy America". *Democrats cheer on antifa spray-painting antifa everywhere while GFR writes racist stuff which is supposedly justified because he isn't allowed to be racist.


On foreign policy, Republicans now support autocracies like Russia. *They don't. They get accused of supporting Russia by the bullying left if they oppose support of Ukraine.

They deny climate change exists and they support overturning elections they lose. *It exists. They just deny the impact of man's role and question why the us is so constrained while other countries increase emissions.

Republicans support people that attacked our Capitol and undermine our security by releasing video that jeopardizes the safety of Congress. Because if you fail once and aren't punished, you plan better for your 2nd attempt. *The videos they release purport to show that the event wasnt an insurrection as there were no guns, no leader, no organization, no "marching orders," no plan, no junta etc. and there is also evidence that undercover agents worked to escalate the event. Calling it an insurrection and making trump responsible gives the government a weapon against their opponent.

I could go on.

---

---

I want to thank oski003 for confirming all the shifts in Republican policy I have alleged

---

Many of your examples, such as Republicans not wanting to cripple U.S. production to battle fears of man-made global warming while other countries are allowed to expand emissions, are not examples of the right moving right.

The first time I watched one of Leno's JayWalking bits on TV was at least 15 years ago. As the studio audience was belly laughing, I said to my wife, "This isn't funny. Our country is f@ucked." At the time, I didn't realized just how f@ucked.



*….but you can rest assured everyone in that video knew what color the Kardashians bleach their cloacae.

I'd also like to point out that oski003 didn't bat an eye at the Trumper plan of massive camps for illegal immigrants, including Dreamers.

Reagan passed amnesty but tell me more about how the Democratic Party has changed.

dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

You could go on, but I think he presented a list of issues that bother him, from his perspective, and I appreciated that.

Of course, we don't agree, but…

The thread was created to understand the rise of the Deplorables - I think we're getting somewhere:
*Race
*Sex
*Crime
*Immigration
*Identify labels

These aren't economic issues or national defense issues of yesteryear.

---

I think Hillary explained it well in 2016. These racist, sexist, xenophobes were always there but Trump gave them voice and brought them in from the sidelines.

I think a lot of us were surprised by how many there are and by mainstream Republicans being ok with teaming up with them.

But keep in mind, Trump has never won a popular vote and his movement has repeatedly gotten thrashed at the polls.

Once more unto the breach. . .

---

Then how come Republicans are in the majority in the House and 50-50 in the Senate???

bearister said:

---

The first time I watched one of Leno's JayWalking bits on TV was at least 15 years ago. As the studio audience was belly laughing, I said to my wife, "This isn't funny. Our country is f@ucked." At the time, I didn't realized just how f@ucked.



*….but you can rest assured everyone in that video knew what color the Kardashians bleach their cloacae.

---

Think about it.
Americans are as stupid as the above video, but do you think our enemies are any better informed???

It's a miracle humanity is still here!
We elect despots, believe their lies, let them brainwash us into war.

concordtom said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

concordtom said:

---

You could go on, but I think he presented a list of issues that bother him, from his perspective, and I appreciated that.

Of course, we don't agree, but…

The thread was created to understand the rise of the Deplorables - I think we're getting somewhere:
*Race
*Sex
*Crime
*Immigration
*Identify labels

These aren't economic issues or national defense issues of yesteryear.

---

I think Hillary explained it well in 2016. These racist, sexist, xenophobes were always there but Trump gave them voice and brought them in from the sidelines.

I think a lot of us were surprised by how many there are and by mainstream Republicans being ok with teaming up with them.

But keep in mind, Trump has never won a popular vote and his movement has repeatedly gotten thrashed at the polls.

Once more unto the breach. . .

---

Then how come Republicans are in the majority in the House and 50-50 in the Senate???

---

The Senate doesn't reflect popular will. That's not a controversial statement - it's by design of the founders, many of whom owned slaves.

2022 was the first election since 1934 (FDR) that the President's party did not lose a Senate seat or governorship or state legislature.

Republicans won only a slight majority of the House in 2022 which is actually a historical success for the President's party in a midterm. Only 3 other times in the past century has the President's party lost less than 10 House seats and no Senate seats. 1934, 1962, 2002, and now 2022.

And then there are just the shifts of the Republican Party on matters of character
https://www.threads.net/@wyatttomlin07/post/CzzWfZTxvrF/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

> Who can explain the Rise Of The Deplorables?

concordtom said:

---

In the early years of Trump, I was horrified, but thought if he were to suddenly die, things would go back to normal.

But now I think the Deplorables movement is vast - wide and deep. I think it's hot legs and there's a decent chance we are in for it for decades.
I am entirely uninspired by the idiot MAGAs who post here, the voter polls, and are elected officials on Capitol Hill who look truth in the face and say "alternative facts". It's like "WOW!" I simply can't believe what I'm seeing, hearing and reading. Shocking!

* Is it race based?
Obama's election as the first non-white seems to be a foundation here. The most obvious thing is Birtherism, but it's beyond that lie.

* Is it Conservative Christians and the taking over the Supreme Court?
Victory at all costs, despite the utter hypocrisy. Well done Mitch McConnell and those secret financial backers.

* Is it the new brazen nature of media?
Foxnews used to be much more tame. Now it's just a salacious entertainment show of outrage and misinformation. Viewers like! We are entertaining ourselves to death. Rush Limbaugh showed everyone else how to behave, and now Fox has competition with OAN and Newsmax on they're right. Journalistic decency and accuracy are a thing of the past.

* Is it the economy, stupid?
Hardly, the economy has been doing just fine, despite the '08 mortgage meltdown and Covid shutdown. See:
-moderate interest rates/inflation.
-near full employment.
-stock market.
-ever improving worker productivity.

* is it the Cult of Personality: Trump?
Again, I've decided he's less of a factor than I previously thought.


Certainly, there must be a book that explains all of it.
Anyone?

---

ConcordTom,

If you want to understand the Rise of the "Deplorables," I encourage you to read the Substack page of Chris Hedges:

Here's the best article to start with:
The Forgotten Victims of America's Class War

Quote:

---

We cannot dismiss and demonize rural white Americans. The class war waged by corporations and the ruling oligarchs has devastated their lives and communities. They have been betrayed. They have every right to be angry. That anger can sometimes be expressed in inappropriate ways, but they are not the enemy. They too are victims. In my case, they are family. I come from here. Our fight for economic justice must include them. We will wrest back control of our nation together or not at all.

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The divide in America is NOT between "Right" and "Left," nor between Republicans & Democrats. It's between Capital and Labor. The Republicans represent the interests of Capital, and the Democrats, OTOH, represent the interests of... Capital. Who represents the interests of the majority of Working Americans? No one.

Obama promised to bring "Hope and Change," but delivered neither. He promised to make the economy "Work for Main Street, not Wall Street." Instead, he responded to the 2008 crash by bailing out the newly-deregulated banks that caused the crash to begin with.



Remember also that the big issue in the 2016 election was "free trade" and the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). BOTH the corporate Dems AND the corporate Repubs were all-in on TPP, which would've accelerated the collapse of U.S. manufacturing AND put even more downward pressure on U.S. wages & salaries.

The numbers that you cite on the condition of the economy are true. However, these are also true:

• 60% of all U.S. households are now living paycheck-to-paycheck, unable to accumulate wealth;
• Just under 50% of all U.S. households could not afford to pay a $400 emergency expense;
• U.S. Consumer Debt reached $1 Trillion a few weeks ago;
• If productivity = (work output) / ($ worker pay), then increased productivity means that workers are being paid less for the same unit of work output. That's great if you're a CEO or a shareholder; but it sucks if you're a Worker/Customer, or a small business that depends on a community of Worker/Customers having disposable income, and time to spend it.

Corporate media also exacerbates The Divide by focusing on social and cultural differences between "Right" and "Left." This helps to ensure that Capital remains more organized, and more powerful, than Labor. Capital's greatest fear is that Labor might overlook these social & cultural differences, ignore the corporate media narratives, and unite to demand a return to the New Deal / Anti-Fascist policies that made the U.S. Middle Class the most prosperous & powerful in world history; that is, the policies that Made America Great.

Trump came in as a figurative wrecking ball to demolish the failed & unsustainable corporate / Neoliberal / Milton Friedman / militarist status quo of both parties. He provided the illusion of someone who would fight against all those policies, but knew so little about civics and governance that he was unable to affect economic change; and despite his populist rhetoric, he had zero interest in pushing for any economic improvement in the lives of his followers.


Chris Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, and the former Middle East Bureau Chief for the NYTimes. His degrees are from Colgate (BA) and Harvard Divinity School (MDiv), and he's an ordained Presbyterian Minister.
https://chrishedges.substack.com

Also, if you really want to understand the appeal of Trump, AND the unpopularity of the corporate factions of both parties, AND the unpopularity of corporate media, you'll have to go outside the corporate media bubble.

https://www.youtube.com/@breakingpoints/videos

Proposals ?

Higher taxes on capital? What

cbbass1 said:

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concordtom said:

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In the early years of Trump, I was horrified, but thought if he were to suddenly die, things would go back to normal.

But now I think the Deplorables movement is vast - wide and deep. I think it's hot legs and there's a decent chance we are in for it for decades.
I am entirely uninspired by the idiot MAGAs who post here, the voter polls, and are elected officials on Capitol Hill who look truth in the face and say "alternative facts". It's like "WOW!" I simply can't believe what I'm seeing, hearing and reading. Shocking!

* Is it race based?
Obama's election as the first non-white seems to be a foundation here. The most obvious thing is Birtherism, but it's beyond that lie.

* Is it Conservative Christians and the taking over the Supreme Court?
Victory at all costs, despite the utter hypocrisy. Well done Mitch McConnell and those secret financial backers.

* Is it the new brazen nature of media?
Foxnews used to be much more tame. Now it's just a salacious entertainment show of outrage and misinformation. Viewers like! We are entertaining ourselves to death. Rush Limbaugh showed everyone else how to behave, and now Fox has competition with OAN and Newsmax on they're right. Journalistic decency and accuracy are a thing of the past.

* Is it the economy, stupid?
Hardly, the economy has been doing just fine, despite the '08 mortgage meltdown and Covid shutdown. See:
-moderate interest rates/inflation.
-near full employment.
-stock market.
-ever improving worker productivity.

* is it the Cult of Personality: Trump?
Again, I've decided he's less of a factor than I previously thought.


Certainly, there must be a book that explains all of it.
Anyone?

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ConcordTom,

If you want to understand the Rise of the "Deplorables," I encourage you to read the Substack page of Chris Hedges:

Here's the best article to start with:
The Forgotten Victims of America's Class War

Quote:

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We cannot dismiss and demonize rural white Americans. The class war waged by corporations and the ruling oligarchs has devastated their lives and communities. They have been betrayed. They have every right to be angry. That anger can sometimes be expressed in inappropriate ways, but they are not the enemy. They too are victims. In my case, they are family. I come from here. Our fight for economic justice must include them. We will wrest back control of our nation together or not at all.

---

The divide in America is NOT between "Right" and "Left," nor between Republicans & Democrats. It's between Capital and Labor. The Republicans represent the interests of Capital, and the Democrats, OTOH, represent the interests of... Capital. Who represents the interests of the majority of Working Americans? No one.

Obama promised to bring "Hope and Change," but delivered neither. He promised to make the economy "Work for Main Street, not Wall Street." Instead, he responded to the 2008 crash by bailing out the newly-deregulated banks that caused the crash to begin with.



Remember also that the big issue in the 2016 election was "free trade" and the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). BOTH the corporate Dems AND the corporate Repubs were all-in on TPP, which would've accelerated the collapse of U.S. manufacturing AND put even more downward pressure on U.S. wages & salaries.

The numbers that you cite on the condition of the economy are true. However, these are also true:

• 60% of all U.S. households are now living paycheck-to-paycheck, unable to accumulate wealth;
• Just under 50% of all U.S. households could not afford to pay a $400 emergency expense;
• U.S. Consumer Debt reached $1 Trillion a few weeks ago;
• If productivity = (work output) / ($ worker pay), then increased productivity means that workers are being paid less for the same unit of work output. That's great if you're a CEO or a shareholder; but it sucks if you're a Worker/Customer, or a small business that depends on a community of Worker/Customers having disposable income, and time to spend it.

Corporate media also exacerbates The Divide by focusing on social and cultural differences between "Right" and "Left." This helps to ensure that Capital remains more organized, and more powerful, than Labor. Capital's greatest fear is that Labor might overlook these social & cultural differences, ignore the corporate media narratives, and unite to demand a return to the New Deal / Anti-Fascist policies that made the U.S. Middle Class the most prosperous & powerful in world history; that is, the policies that Made America Great.

Trump came in as a figurative wrecking ball to demolish the failed & unsustainable corporate / Neoliberal / Milton Friedman / militarist status quo of both parties. He provided the illusion of someone who would fight against all those policies, but knew so little about civics and governance that he was unable to affect economic change; and despite his populist rhetoric, he had zero interest in pushing for any economic improvement in the lives of his followers.


Chris Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, and the former Middle East Bureau Chief for the NYTimes. His degrees are from Colgate (BA) and Harvard Divinity School (MDiv), and he's an ordained Presbyterian Minister.
https://chrishedges.substack.com

Also, if you really want to understand the appeal of Trump, AND the unpopularity of the corporate factions of both parties, AND the unpopularity of corporate media, you'll have to go outside the corporate media bubble.

https://www.youtube.com/@breakingpoints/videos

---

Economic disadvantages are not a valid excuse for racism, sexism, and xenophobia

concordtom said:

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Proposals ?

Higher taxes on capital? What

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Go back to the taxation, regulatory, trade, and Labor policies of the New Deal -- especially the 35% to 45% tax on corporate earnings. Restore the widely-distributed wealth of the Middle Classes of the U.S. & Europe.

In other words, make Capitalism work for nearly everyone. Then y'all won't have to worry about Socialism, or Communism, or Fascism. We've done this before, and we can do it again.

The economic "Far Left" in U.S politics is *still* to the economic Right of FDR and Dwight Eisenhower. THAT'S how far we've come in the last 60 years.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I've watched Hedges before, and am listening again to this talk from two years ago

https://www.youtube.com/live/69pEzsfX8Aw

He's extremely critical and dour and revolutionary. Maybe it's because he covered so many revolutions as a journalist. I think he said it's the eventual way out of the failing system he sees in the US now.

dajo9 said:

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Economic disadvantages are not a valid excuse for racism, sexism, and xenophobia

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Perhaps a reasonable explanation is the flight or fight science experiment of rats in a cage that are given a shock.

Hedges started out the talk by saying whites have been deceived by the idea of meritocracy where if you put in a solid day's work you'll get a certain level of reward. (Blacks, he says, never bought into that notion.)

So, now many aren't getting what they think they deserve, and so they are fighting against the other rats in the cage, and in this analogy the "others" are the immigrants and trans and nonchristians.

It's funny, because if SF has an earthquake, everyone is going to pull together, even risking life and limb for strangers. But in the slow bleed, we turn against each other.

dajo9 said:

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I'd also like to point out that oski003 didn't bat an eye at the Trumper plan of massive camps for illegal immigrants, including Dreamers.

Reagan passed amnesty but tell me more about how the Democratic Party has changed.

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Reagan didn't advocate amnesty, then an open border, then amnesty again like the Easter Bunny seems to be doing. Apparently, being against an open border makes you a radical conservative. If we could actually control immigration instead of importing MS-13 and anyone else who walks, runs or swims in, we could them provide amnesty and citizenship to those who want to be citizens. Deport those who don't want to be American citizens.

.

oski003 said:

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dajo9 said:

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I'd also like to point out that oski003 didn't bat an eye at the Trumper plan of massive camps for illegal immigrants, including Dreamers.

Reagan passed amnesty but tell me more about how the Democratic Party has changed.

---

Reagan didn't advocate amnesty, then an open border, then amnesty again like the Easter Bunny seems to be doing. Apparently, being against an open border makes you a radical conservative. If we could actually control immigration instead of importing MS-13 and anyone else who walks, runs or swims in, we could them provide amnesty and citizenship to those who want to be citizens. Deport those who don't want to be American citizens.

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Enjoy your bubble of disinformation

oski003 said:

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dajo9 said:

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I'd also like to point out that oski003 didn't bat an eye at the Trumper plan of massive camps for illegal immigrants, including Dreamers.

Reagan passed amnesty but tell me more about how the Democratic Party has changed.

---

Reagan didn't advocate amnesty, then an open border, then amnesty again like the Easter Bunny seems to be doing. Apparently, being against an open border makes you a radical conservative. If we could actually control immigration instead of importing MS-13 and anyone else who walks, runs or swims in, we could them provide amnesty and citizenship to those who want to be citizens. Deport those who don't want to be American citizens.

---

I think it's easy - grant citizenship to dreamers: kids who were brought here by adults, and raised as Americans.

Then Dems would work with Republicans on how to secure the border.

But Rs won't do it.

oski003 said:

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dajo9 said:

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I'd also like to point out that oski003 didn't bat an eye at the Trumper plan of massive camps for illegal immigrants, including Dreamers.

Reagan passed amnesty but tell me more about how the Democratic Party has changed.

---

Reagan didn't advocate amnesty, then an open border, then amnesty again like the Easter Bunny seems to be doing. Apparently, being against an open border makes you a radical conservative. If we could actually control immigration instead of importing MS-13 and anyone else who walks, runs or swims in, we could them provide amnesty and citizenship to those who want to be citizens. Deport those who don't want to be American citizens.

---

Long before Reagan passed Amnesty, he started a huge wave of immigration from Mexico & Central America by declaring to the nation's employers that his administration would NOT enforce the existing laws against hiring undocumented workers. It was still illegal for the undocumented workers to be in the U.S., but employers could hire them. And they did.

The Reagan administration's effort from the start was to lower the wages of U.S. Workers at the lower end of the wage scale, and to make it much more difficult for unions to organize. For Republicans and employers, this strategy worked spectacularly well. But for U.S. Workers, it was the first in a series of policy disasters designed to kill the U.S. Middle Class.

As a Progressive / New Deal Democrat, I'm 100% against the Neoliberal / Milton Friedman concept of "open borders," and the "free flow of Capital and Labor across international borders." It's a concept that has never worked because it's unsustainable. The rise of racism and right-wing Fascism are directly attributable to the large-scale replacement of largely unionized/organized white European Workers with non-union immigrants. The economic impact, and the backlash, are understandable, and no amount of Race Sensitivity Training or DEI powerpoints are going to make that reality go away.

The most important thing that the U.S. can do to address the current border crisis is to end our egregious and anti-democratic policies of overthrowing democratically-elected leaders in other countries, propping up leaders who are willing to "play ball" with multinational corporations. Our borders are overwhelmed because we have so many failed states, especially in the Western Hemisphere, and our meddling in their affairs has made those states unlivable.

We're now seeing the consequences of decades of foreign policy failures, combined with climate change (which is yet another policy failure). After aggressively pursuing an unsustainable foreign policy and unsustainable economic & environmental policies, we're at the breaking point.

And instead of rolling up our sleeves & trying to solve our many problems, it looks like we're going to do what we usually do -- go to war.