Jimmy Carter dead at 100

1,488 Views | 53 Replies | Last: 5 days ago by bear2034
bearister
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What did he say?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Eastern Oregon Bear
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bearister said:

What did he say?
Blah blah blah
Dismantled New Deal regulations
Blah blah blah
Father of Neoliberalism
Blah blah blah
Walked away from the Salt II talks
Blah blah blah
Evil proxy wars
Blah blah blah
Supported evil opposition groups
Blah blah blah
Supported evil dictators
Blah blah blah

A fairly predictable look at the late 1970s through the lens of 2024 Yogi political writer heroes. He did say Carter was a decent man in other respects.
Cal88
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Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.
BearGoggles
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Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was an apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Eastern Oregon Bear
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For some reason, I was just scrolling through the entire list of 2025 Grammy nominees and was surprised to see that Jimmy Carter is up for a Grammy in the Best Audio Book, Narration, and Storytelling Recording category. He's up against George Clinton, Dolly Parton, Barbra Streisand and The Beatles (and various artists, it says). I'm betting the winner will be over 75, since Dolly Parton is the only one under 80 and she's 78.. Kind of sad to see that the hard working career voice over talents failed to gain even one nomination.

Bonus trivia: Best song title of the year is from the Best Instrumental Composition category. "I Swear, I Really Wanted To Make A "Rap" Album But This Is Literally The Way The Wind Blew Me This Time" by Andre 3000 and associates. Andre 3000 also has a nomination for Best Alternative Jazz Album for New Blue Sun. This surprises me, but I confess I haven't followed his career since Outkast broke up.
Eastern Oregon Bear
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BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
dimitrig
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My bologna has a first name...

BearGoggles
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.
BearGoggles
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dimitrig said:


My bologna has a first name...


Brandon?
Eastern Oregon Bear
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BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.

When someone starts calling people he's never met a cuck, I generally don't pay much attention to what they have to say.
concordtom
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BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.



I'm not clicking links and researching all this the way you apparently have. I think what's being said here is Scott Jennings is accusing Carter of treason for his communications with foreign governments before the gulf war. Is this the one following Kuwait or following 9/11 that we are talking about? I think 9/11.

Well, that's interesting. Because it turns out that the invasion into Iraq was an illegal stunt by the bush Jr administration.
And second, Scott Jennings is a total Turd who should be removed from CNN's desk. He defends the indefensible and I understand what he's doing. The grand turd DID commit treason when he held that rally 4 years ago, and Scott now wants to soften the accusations of treason by throwing it around to others.

I've seen Jennings in action for far too long. I hate him. And I no longer listen to him. He upsets me too much, so I don't watch a panel that he's on.

I don't watch any news anymore. It's too painful.

I have been to the mountaintop and seen the truth, come to understand to nature if man and the nature of the USA. I'm not a believer anymore. We have lost our way. It's going to be what it's going to be.



Ray Dalio might suggest that we are merely fighting internally over the remains of the declining empire.

You ever watch a crew race? Maybe tug of war is a better example.
When one boat begins to take over the other one, there can be a surge of adrenaline. They are all in, focused, and crush the losers, who scatter and bicker over strategy. The end happens fast.




BearGoggles
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concordtom said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.



I'm not clicking links and researching all this the way you apparently have. I think what's being said here is Scott Jennings is accusing Carter of treason for his communications with foreign governments before the gulf war. Is this the one following Kuwait or following 9/11 that we are talking about? I think 9/11.

Well, that's interesting. Because it turns out that the invasion into Iraq was an illegal stunt by the bush Jr administration.
And second, Scott Jennings is a total Turd who should be removed from CNN's desk. He defends the indefensible and I understand what he's doing. The grand turd DID commit treason when he held that rally 4 years ago, and Scott now wants to soften the accusations of treason by throwing it around to others.

I've seen Jennings in action for far too long. I hate him. And I no longer listen to him. He upsets me too much, so I don't watch a panel that he's on.

I don't watch any news anymore. It's too painful.

I have been to the mountaintop and seen the truth, come to understand to nature if man and the nature of the USA. I'm not a believer anymore. We have lost our way. It's going to be what it's going to be.

[img]<br /><br />[/img]

Ray Dalio might suggest that we are merely fighting internally over the remains of the declining empire.

You ever watch a crew race? Maybe tug of war is a better example.
When one boat begins to take over the other one, there can be a surge of adrenaline. They are all in, focused, and crush the losers, who scatter and bicker over strategy. The end happens fast.





The Carter actions in question occurred in connection with the original Gulf War resulting from Sadam's unprovoked invasion of Kuwait - the war that the entire world viewed as just. And I'm not aware of any prevalent view that the military action was a mistake.

I find it odd a person is unwilling to click a link to a well known mainstream conservative website and read for two minutes, but then is willing to type such a long response predicated on a basic misunderstanding of the original point.
BearGoggles
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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.

When someone starts calling people he's never met a cuck, I generally don't pay much attention to what they have to say.
My use of the word was meant to convey subservience to a political position/politician, not a wide attack on the person. I think it is used that way pretty commonly. If someone accused me of being a cuck for Israel or Trump, I would understand the context and wouldn't be offended at all (though I'd disagree with the characterization and explain why). However, I've since learned that some find the use of the word offensive, I apologize for using it here and won't use it here in the future.
BearGoggles
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concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearGoggles said:

concordtom said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.



I'm not clicking links and researching all this the way you apparently have. I think what's being said here is Scott Jennings is accusing Carter of treason for his communications with foreign governments before the gulf war. Is this the one following Kuwait or following 9/11 that we are talking about? I think 9/11.

Well, that's interesting. Because it turns out that the invasion into Iraq was an illegal stunt by the bush Jr administration.
And second, Scott Jennings is a total Turd who should be removed from CNN's desk. He defends the indefensible and I understand what he's doing. The grand turd DID commit treason when he held that rally 4 years ago, and Scott now wants to soften the accusations of treason by throwing it around to others.

I've seen Jennings in action for far too long. I hate him. And I no longer listen to him. He upsets me too much, so I don't watch a panel that he's on.

I don't watch any news anymore. It's too painful.

I have been to the mountaintop and seen the truth, come to understand to nature if man and the nature of the USA. I'm not a believer anymore. We have lost our way. It's going to be what it's going to be.

[img]<br /><br />[/img]

Ray Dalio might suggest that we are merely fighting internally over the remains of the declining empire.

You ever watch a crew race? Maybe tug of war is a better example.
When one boat begins to take over the other one, there can be a surge of adrenaline. They are all in, focused, and crush the losers, who scatter and bicker over strategy. The end happens fast.





The Carter actions in question occurred in connection with the original Gulf War resulting from Sadam's unprovoked invasion of Kuwait - the war that the entire world viewed as just. And I'm not aware of any prevalent view that the military action was a mistake.

I find it odd a person is unwilling to click a link to a well known mainstream conservative website and read for two minutes, but then is willing to type such a long response predicated on a basic misunderstanding of the original point.


That's a good point!

Sometimes I read and research.
Sometimes I like to talk.

Like right now. The game is on, so the input line is already occupied.

Happy new year!
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.

When someone starts calling people he's never met a cuck, I generally don't pay much attention to what they have to say.
My use of the word was meant to convey subservience to a political position/politician, not a wide attack on the person. I think it is used that way pretty commonly. If someone accused me of being a cuck for Israel or Trump, I would understand the context and wouldn't be offended at all (though I'd disagree with the characterization and explain why). However, I've since learned that some find the use of the word offensive, I apologize for using it here and won't use it here in the future.

Wow!
A mature and humble response on BI.
Amazing!!
Big C
How long do you want to ignore this user?
concordtom said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.

When someone starts calling people he's never met a cuck, I generally don't pay much attention to what they have to say.
My use of the word was meant to convey subservience to a political position/politician, not a wide attack on the person. I think it is used that way pretty commonly. If someone accused me of being a cuck for Israel or Trump, I would understand the context and wouldn't be offended at all (though I'd disagree with the characterization and explain why). However, I've since learned that some find the use of the word offensive, I apologize for using it here and won't use it here in the future.

Wow!
A mature and humble response on BI.
Amazing!!

Amazing but not surprising on this forum. Chapman should admit that we are winners!
concordtom
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Big C said:

concordtom said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

BearGoggles said:

Cal88 said:

Hedge's critique was pretty solid I thought, better than the usual critiques of Carter from the right.

Carter was still the best of the lot the last half century plus, but he still had his flaws.

I've been observing the 24 hour rule. With the passage of time, I can now say that Carter was a terrible president and even worse ex president.

The reality is he was terribly destructive of ex-presidential norms and often directly undercut then-current US poliy of BOTH parties. No other ex-president has behaved in such an improper manner - even Obama has mostly kept his mouth shut.

Read the tweet/article linked below.



I note with no small irony that if Trump (as an ex president) did some of the things Carter did, Trump would have been arrested under the Logan Act among other things.

We understand why you would be a supporter of Jimmy Carter. He shared many of your misguided antisemitic views and was a cuck/apologist for the USSR (now Russia).
Wow. You really have wandered into the Steve Bannon Q-Anon rabbit hole judging by your language.

The Logan Act criminalizes the negotiation of a dispute between the United States and a foreign government by an unauthorized American citizen. Carter brokered negotiations between foreign countries. I'm not aware that he ever negotiated on the behalf of the United States without the permission of the sitting President at the time.

Israel didn't seem to think Carter was anti-semitic when he brokered the Camp David Accords between Israel and Egypt.
Your post make it clear you didn't bother to read the linked tweets and article. Either that, or you lack reading comprehension. So lazy or stupid? You pick which one.

As reported in the article, When the current President Bush was engaged in intense diplomacy at the UN and with Arab countries:

"Carter wrote to key Arab leaders urging them to abandon their support for the U.S., undermining months of careful diplomacy by the Bush administration. "You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive," Carter advised them."

On CNN tonight, Carter apologists acknowledge this was true. Literally no one disputes he did this.



More from the NR article:

"Carter's meddling was not limited to the first Iraq War or to Republican administrations. In 1994, there was a standoff between the U.S., its allies, and North Korea over the communist country's nuclear program. The U.S. was floating the idea of sanctions at the United Nations. Over the years, Carter had received multiple invitations to visit North Korea from Kim Il-sung and was eager to fly over and defuse the situation with an ultimate goal of convening a NorthSouth peace summit and unifying the peninsula. Begrudgingly, the Clinton administration agreed to let Carter meet with Kim as long as Carter made clear that he was a private citizen and that he was merely gathering information on the North Korean perspective, which he would then report back to the Clinton administration.

Without telling the Clinton administration, however, Carter flew to North Korea with a CNN film crew and proceeded to negotiate the framework of an agreement. He then informed the Clinton team after the fact, with little warning, that he was about to go on CNN to announce the deal. This infuriated the Clinton administration, and according to Brinkley's account, one cabinet member called the former president a "treasonous *****." To make matters worse, Carter then accepted a dinner invitation from Kim, at which point Carter claimed on camera that the U.S. had stopped pursuing sanctions at the U.N., which was untrue. Nevertheless, once Carter went on television to announce all this, Clinton felt completely boxed in, and he was forced to accept the deal and abandon sanction efforts."

The article details why many Israelis, many Jews, and other supporters of Israel despise Carter. Among other things, it was his embrace of Hamas and its violent tactics. None of this is new.

When someone starts calling people he's never met a cuck, I generally don't pay much attention to what they have to say.
My use of the word was meant to convey subservience to a political position/politician, not a wide attack on the person. I think it is used that way pretty commonly. If someone accused me of being a cuck for Israel or Trump, I would understand the context and wouldn't be offended at all (though I'd disagree with the characterization and explain why). However, I've since learned that some find the use of the word offensive, I apologize for using it here and won't use it here in the future.

Wow!
A mature and humble response on BI.
Amazing!!

Amazing but not surprising on this forum. Chapman should admit that we are winners!


Good point!
Advise GregBear along the way. Maybe he'll keep the hoard open a bit longer.
bear2034
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19 Days Until No Joe said:



Maybe we'll see Carter attend Trump's inauguration?
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