concordtom said:wifeisafurd said:concordtom said:
Maybe they could go after Big Oil for hiding data that indicated storms would be getting worse through global warming, that the west would become dryer.
Maybe they could go after god for making there be 70 mph hot winds so when any of 20B people living with the region of Santa Anas lit a match it wouldn't spread.
Maybe they could go after matchmakers and lighter manufacturers.
Or the home building industry for using combustible materials like wood siding instead of stucco.
I think maybe there must have been a few cars illegally parked that blocked fire trucks.
Meteorologists on the news also failed to properly inform the citizenry.
Come to think of it, I'm going to Pre-File a claim against whatever agency for not more accurately informing me of earthquake risk at my residence.
And I'm going to file a lawsuit against Trump for not better protecting me from retaliation gunfire when I go speak publicly against him (see the article about the judge's home in Edisto SC). I mean, the government exists to protect my rights and if they don't then they are all collectively responsible.
I need someone to sue for every last thing that could happen to me.
This is a response to the several posts.
The gross negligence standard in California is "gross negligence" is an extreme failure to exercise care, demonstrating a "want of even scant care" or an "extreme departure from the ordinary standard of conduct" that shows a reckless disregard for the safety of others. That obviously is a question of fact, and in theory is supposed to be a much higher barrier for plaintiffs to overcome. Would not following protocols rise to that level?Depends. Not following protocols can rise to the level of gross negligence if the failure constitutes an "extreme departure from the ordinary standard of conduct". Being practical, I would think a finding of gross negligence would depend on how pissed off a jury got based on my limited exposure as having been the real estate lawyer for various governmental agencies with jurisdiction in Los Angeles County. Now a Judge could throw out the case on that standard before it goes to a jury, based on facts presented.
There are actually a large number of judges who were impacted by the fire not to mention potential jurors in the same boat. Most people here in the greater Los Angeles area have family members and friends who lost their homes in one or both of the two large fires earlier in the year. Economically, property damage estimates are as high as $53.8 billion, with broader economic losses of up to $8.9 billion for business disruptions in Los Angeles County per UCLA Anderson. There are environmental impacts, some of them long terms, such as to the coastlines, which has consequences to the quality of life, such as beach closures. And I could go on, but the upshot is that people down here are furious. So my guess is if a Judge lets this go to a jury, it will not take much to demonstrate gross negligence.
As to Tom's comments about blaming meteorologists, etc., there is the legal concept of proximate cause, which provides that an event that is sufficiently related to an injury to be considered its legal cause, even if it's not the sole cause, is actionable. It's determined generally by the foreseeability of the harm; that is, a reasonable person could have foreseen the harm caused by the event as a consequence of their action. That also is a question of fact, and essentially all reasonable people would find the hypotheticals poised by Tom and Movielover to be so remote as to not qualify as the proximate causes of the damages to our friends and relatives caused by the fires. My sense is even Tom would not so silly if the fires had happened in Concord has impacted his relatives or friends. That said, while the claimed misconduct or malfeasance of government officials makes a lot of headlines that is different than proving bad conduct to higher standards at a trial or demonstrating proximate cause, but I think if the $ Billions in claims gets to a Los Angeles County jury, many of the plaintiff private and governmental entities will seek bankruptcy court protection.
A very excellent post!
I had assumed that my including meteorologists would reveal my attempts at humor. Farce. And I apologize if the style I employed was inappropriate or insensitive. I can see that.
I confess I have not at all followed the stories. I DO know the areas that burned and it is incredible. Shocking and sad.
I just ran a compare as referenceQuote:
Fire Name / Area
Date
Location
Deaths
Structures Destroyed
Notes
Camp Fire (Paradise)
Nov 2018
Paradise, Butte County
85
18,804
Most destructive fire in CA history; entire town of Paradise largely destroyed
Palisades Fire
Jan 2025
Pacific Palisades, Los Angeles County
12
~6,837
Part of 2025 LA fire complex; fast-moving urban-interface blaze
Eaton Fire (Altadena)
Jan 2025
Altadena / Pasadena area
18
~9,418
Burned through foothill communities; caused heavy structure losses
Combined (Palisades + Eaton)
Jan 2025
Los Angeles County
28 total
~16,000 total
So, I actually thought LA was bigger. In dollars, yes, I assume!!!
Santa Rosa, Napa, SCU Complex…. We've had SO Many fires up here. It's horrible. Everywhere!
I've accepted that once they start going, if the wind is blowing, forget about it!!!
It was absurd to read your post suggesting (as many whackos on here did endlessly) that the actions of anyone could have stopped it.
The wind blow embers many miles, sideways. Nothing you can do!
I agree with you that a jury can decide ANYTHING! Doesn't mean they find the truth or fairness. OJ Simpson?
Further to that - it's been proven to me that people can be convinced of ANYTHING:
Jesus miracles
Mohammed, martyr virgins.
Trump is innocent.
Frosted Flakes are Greeeaaaattttt!
Jews were the cause of German suffering.
Propaganda, marketing, brainwashing, the power of suggestion, group affiliation, repetition of ideas….. these things all trump (no pun) logic. And a jury system, election, consumer spending dollars - all depends on matters of emotion, no fact and logic.
My sincere condolences to all who suffered. And I don't know the facts of how anyone might have stopped these fires. I am admittedly uninformed. I was expressing my general opinion.
I know which side wants to draw me onto that jury. And I'd listen intently.
NorCal has suffered some horrible wildfires as well. The cost of these fires throughout the state is just brutal in terms of loss of life and property, health and economics. Just the cost and unavailability of insurance should make all understand that the cost of wildfires is a burden on all Californians.
