What's the price tag going to be on this event vs a bad hurricane?
SoCal fires thread
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Last: 1 hr ago by movielover
Biden just announced another $500 million to Ukraine while California burns.
— Mostly Peaceful Memes (@MostlyPeacefull) January 8, 2025
I would not give Governor Newsom $$$ unless he committed up front to processing several projects - end the minimalism.
- build Sites Reservoir
- expand Los Vaqueros Reservoir?
- expand some SoCal reservoirs
- expand San Luis Reservoir
- change water storage practices
- dramatically expand controlled burns, and fire trails
And I think I would only give them money on the backend as I know they'll play games. We don't trust them.
- build Sites Reservoir
- expand Los Vaqueros Reservoir?
- expand some SoCal reservoirs
- expand San Luis Reservoir
- change water storage practices
- dramatically expand controlled burns, and fire trails
And I think I would only give them money on the backend as I know they'll play games. We don't trust them.
concordtom said:
What's the price tag going to be on this event vs a bad hurricane?
ChatGPT:
In recent years, hurricanes and wildfires in the U.S. have caused massive economic damage, but their impacts differ in scale and scope.
### **Hurricanes:**
The most costly hurricanes in U.S. history include Katrina (2005, $190 billion adjusted for inflation), Harvey (2017, $152 billion), and Ian (2022, $113 billion). Recent hurricanes like Idalia in 2023 caused over $12 billion in damages. Hurricane-related costs typically arise from physical destruction of infrastructure, loss of life, economic disruptions, and insurance payouts, with damages often concentrated in coastal areas.
### **Wildfires:**
Wildfires are increasingly costly due to climate change and urban expansion into fire-prone areas. Annual damages range from $78 billion to over $300 billion. For example:
- The 2018 Camp Fire in California caused $16.5 billion in damages.
- Wildfire-related costs include destruction of property, reduced real estate values, health impacts from smoke (up to $200 billion annually), and disruptions to labor and income (over $147 billion annually). Insurance claims for wildfire damage alone range from $8 billion to $15 billion annually.
### **Comparison:**
- **Frequency and Scale**: Hurricanes typically cause higher single-event costs, while wildfires create recurring and compounding economic impacts over time.
- **Geographic Distribution**: Hurricanes primarily affect coastal and Gulf regions, while wildfires hit Western states like California, Oregon, and Washington.
- **Health and Environmental Impacts**: Wildfires cause extensive air pollution and long-term health issues, while hurricanes contribute to flooding and water contamination.
Both disasters reflect the growing costs of climate-related events, emphasizing the need for investments in mitigation strategies like resilient infrastructure and improved land management.
Sources:
- National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
- Congressional Research Service
- Joint Economic Committee analysis678.
movielover said:
I would not give Governor Newsom $$$ unless he committed up front to processing several projects - end the minimalism.
- build Sites Reservoir
- expand Los Vaqueros Reservoir?
- expand some SoCal reservoirs
- expand San Luis Reservoir
- change water storage practices
- dramatically expand controlled burns, and fire trails
And I think I would only give them money on the backend as I know they'll play games. We don't trust them.
..Every year, as the fire’s rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor. You don’t see close to the level of burn in other states...But our teams are working well together in.....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 3, 2019
Are the "environmentalists" and the climate change cultists in California preventing the governor from doing the required work necessary to prevent and manage these fires? Or is it just different priorities?
List of costliest fires in California history
Here is a list of the costliest wildfires in California history, based on damages (adjusted for inflation where noted):
1. **Camp Fire (2018)**
- **Cost**: $16.5 billion
- **Details**: Destroyed 18,804 structures and resulted in 85 fatalities. It is the deadliest and most destructive wildfire in California history.
2. **Tubbs Fire (2017)**
- **Cost**: $8.7 billion
- **Details**: Burned through Napa and Sonoma Counties, destroying over 5,600 structures and causing 22 deaths.
3. **North Bay Fires (2017)**
- **Cost**: $14.5 billion (combined with Tubbs Fire)
- **Details**: A series of fires including the Nuns, Atlas, and Tubbs Fires, collectively causing widespread destruction in wine country.
4. **Dixie Fire (2021)**
- **Cost**: $620 million
- **Details**: Burned nearly 1 million acres and destroyed more than 1,300 structures across five counties.
5. **Thomas Fire (2017)**
- **Cost**: $2.2 billion
- **Details**: Burned 281,893 acres and destroyed over 1,000 structures in Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties.
6. **Woolsey Fire (2018)**
- **Cost**: $6 billion
- **Details**: Burned nearly 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,600 structures in Los Angeles and Ventura Counties.
7. **Carr Fire (2018)**
- **Cost**: $1.659 billion
- **Details**: Burned 229,651 acres and destroyed over 1,600 structures in Shasta and Trinity Counties.
8. **Glass Fire (2020)**
- **Cost**: $2.9 billion
- **Details**: Burned over 67,484 acres in Napa and Sonoma Counties, destroying hundreds of structures [oai_citation:1,Ashes to Action: Rebuilding After the Tubbs Fire - After the Fire USA](https://afterthefireusa.org/ashes-to-action-rebuilding-after-the-tubbs-fire/) [oai_citation:2,Tubbs Fire (Central LNU Complex) | CAL FIRE](https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/2017/10/8/tubbs-fire-central-lnu-complex/) [oai_citation:3,2017 Tubbs Wildfire](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/83be0f46a12b40fa950af212e3e7141e#:~:text=URL%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fstorymaps.arcgis.com%2Fstories%2F83be0f46a12b40fa950af212e3e7141e%0AVisible%3A%200%25%20).
These figures reflect the increasing financial and human toll of wildfires in California, driven by changing climate conditions, prolonged droughts, and urban expansion into fire-prone areas.
Here is a list of the costliest wildfires in California history, based on damages (adjusted for inflation where noted):
1. **Camp Fire (2018)**
- **Cost**: $16.5 billion
- **Details**: Destroyed 18,804 structures and resulted in 85 fatalities. It is the deadliest and most destructive wildfire in California history.
2. **Tubbs Fire (2017)**
- **Cost**: $8.7 billion
- **Details**: Burned through Napa and Sonoma Counties, destroying over 5,600 structures and causing 22 deaths.
3. **North Bay Fires (2017)**
- **Cost**: $14.5 billion (combined with Tubbs Fire)
- **Details**: A series of fires including the Nuns, Atlas, and Tubbs Fires, collectively causing widespread destruction in wine country.
4. **Dixie Fire (2021)**
- **Cost**: $620 million
- **Details**: Burned nearly 1 million acres and destroyed more than 1,300 structures across five counties.
5. **Thomas Fire (2017)**
- **Cost**: $2.2 billion
- **Details**: Burned 281,893 acres and destroyed over 1,000 structures in Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties.
6. **Woolsey Fire (2018)**
- **Cost**: $6 billion
- **Details**: Burned nearly 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,600 structures in Los Angeles and Ventura Counties.
7. **Carr Fire (2018)**
- **Cost**: $1.659 billion
- **Details**: Burned 229,651 acres and destroyed over 1,600 structures in Shasta and Trinity Counties.
8. **Glass Fire (2020)**
- **Cost**: $2.9 billion
- **Details**: Burned over 67,484 acres in Napa and Sonoma Counties, destroying hundreds of structures [oai_citation:1,Ashes to Action: Rebuilding After the Tubbs Fire - After the Fire USA](https://afterthefireusa.org/ashes-to-action-rebuilding-after-the-tubbs-fire/) [oai_citation:2,Tubbs Fire (Central LNU Complex) | CAL FIRE](https://www.fire.ca.gov/incidents/2017/10/8/tubbs-fire-central-lnu-complex/) [oai_citation:3,2017 Tubbs Wildfire](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/83be0f46a12b40fa950af212e3e7141e#:~:text=URL%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fstorymaps.arcgis.com%2Fstories%2F83be0f46a12b40fa950af212e3e7141e%0AVisible%3A%200%25%20).
These figures reflect the increasing financial and human toll of wildfires in California, driven by changing climate conditions, prolonged droughts, and urban expansion into fire-prone areas.
How much dollar damage did the 1992 Oakland hills fire cost?
The 1991 Oakland Hills fire, also known as the Tunnel Fire, caused significant devastation in the East Bay region of California. It destroyed over 3,400 homes and apartment units, burned approximately 1,600 acres, and resulted in 25 fatalities. The total cost of the damage was estimated at $1.5 billion in 1991 dollars, equivalent to about $3.9 billion today when adjusted for inflation [oai_citation:1,The Oakland Hills Firestorm | Forward | East Bay Parks](https://www.ebparks.org/about-us/stories/oakland-hills-firestorm-forward) [oai_citation:2,NFPA - Oakland Berkeley Hills Fire Investigation - Oct1991 - *HISTORICAL*](https://www.caloes.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/Fire-Rescue/Documents/NFPA-Oakland-Berkeley-Hills-Fire-Report.pdf).
The 1991 Oakland Hills fire, also known as the Tunnel Fire, caused significant devastation in the East Bay region of California. It destroyed over 3,400 homes and apartment units, burned approximately 1,600 acres, and resulted in 25 fatalities. The total cost of the damage was estimated at $1.5 billion in 1991 dollars, equivalent to about $3.9 billion today when adjusted for inflation [oai_citation:1,The Oakland Hills Firestorm | Forward | East Bay Parks](https://www.ebparks.org/about-us/stories/oakland-hills-firestorm-forward) [oai_citation:2,NFPA - Oakland Berkeley Hills Fire Investigation - Oct1991 - *HISTORICAL*](https://www.caloes.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/Fire-Rescue/Documents/NFPA-Oakland-Berkeley-Hills-Fire-Report.pdf).
With proper Forest Management, we can stop the devastation constantly going on in California. Get Smart!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 11, 2018
Unfortunately yes. In 2007 the Sierra Club successfully sued the Forest Service to prevent them from creating a Categorical Exclusion (CE) to NEPA for controlled burns (the technical term is "fuel reduction"). The CE would have allowed the forest service to conduct burns without…
— Isaiah Taylor - making nuclear reactors (@isaiah_p_taylor) January 8, 2025
Biden cuts off the fire briefing: "The good news is that I became a great grandpa"
— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) January 8, 2025
Press is kicked out. 0 questions. pic.twitter.com/GjFYy7qUhv
This is why I despise you. You post nonsensical stuff meant only to agitate.
The Coffey Park fire in Santa Rosa had NOTHING to do with forests. Trump is a blow hard.
These fires are the result of arid conditions and high winds, primarily.
It's like someone says, how can we improve schools and you and trump will say Gavin Newsom sucks.
Or isn't it great that the Dodgers won the WS and you and trump will say "Too bad they have so many fans who don't pay taxes because they are illegally here."
What's most despicable is that you know exactly what you are doing, and you literally get off on it. You love agitating others.
In this way, you are psychologically damaged.
And this is why I generally never read your garbage.
Both. The priorities are FAT Union wages, perks, DEI, open wonton public-subsidized drug bazaars (aka homeless), and open.borders.
Early spring and late fall controlled burns should be frequent, and easy. Bring out local fire teams and their $500,000 salaries to provide assistance. They don't. They prioritize firefighter personal trainers, fire house BBQs, etc, over preventing fires.
WHAT WERE THE FIRE PREVENTION RECOMMENDATIONS OF LOCAL FIRE LEADERSHIP?
If their plans were insufficient, fire them.
Early spring and late fall controlled burns should be frequent, and easy. Bring out local fire teams and their $500,000 salaries to provide assistance. They don't. They prioritize firefighter personal trainers, fire house BBQs, etc, over preventing fires.
WHAT WERE THE FIRE PREVENTION RECOMMENDATIONS OF LOCAL FIRE LEADERSHIP?
If their plans were insufficient, fire them.
concordtom said:
These fires are the result of arid conditions and high winds, primarily.
Our hearts go out to those who have lost their homes and are seeking shelter. Fires in LA are sadly no surprise, yet the Mayor cut LA Fire Department’s budget by $23M. And reports of empty fire hydrants raise serious questions. Competence matters… Follow @latimes for live…
— Dr. Pat Soon-Shiong (@DrPatSoonShiong) January 8, 2025
But there are real questions with no answers at this point.
Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?
Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.
Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.
It's an amazing physics equation.
And at the heart of the equation are a pair of Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines each capable of 1,775 kW of thrust.
bear2034 said:..Every year, as the fire’s rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor. You don’t see close to the level of burn in other states...But our teams are working well together in.....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 3, 2019
Everyone take a deep breath.
The Fire "genius" is speaking about things that he doesn't have a clue about.
Wow, it took you 17 replies to politicize this. Either you were in a long business meeting or you RWNJs are losing your edge.movielover said:
Liberal policies, Liberal.consequences.
Meanwhile, LA Mayor glad handing in Africa.
If you live in Oakland, watch the footage out of LA and then consider that this city just suspended operations at two fire stations and is reducing services at four more.
— Leighton 明 Woodhouse (@lwoodhouse) January 8, 2025
DiabloWags said:Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?
Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.
Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.
Probably in the summer, not now.
Fifth largest economy in the world can't buy 1-2 critical planes?
chazzed goes ad hominem in her first post in the thread?chazzed said:
Wow, it took you 17 replies to politicize this. Either you were in a long business meeting or you RWNJs are losing your edge.
The hilarity does not stem from Trump talking out of nether regions--we all know how childlike he is--but that bear2034 chose to quote him.DiabloWags said:bear2034 said:..Every year, as the fire’s rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor. You don’t see close to the level of burn in other states...But our teams are working well together in.....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 3, 2019
Everyone take a deep breath.
The Fire "genius" is speaking about things that he doesn't have a clue about.
DiabloWags said:
Everyone take a deep breath.
The Fire "genius" is speaking about things that he doesn't have a clue about.
This is the fire chief, assistant chief, and training commander in Los Angeles Fire Department pic.twitter.com/GLkHT7pg18
— End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) January 8, 2025
"Firefighting in California is mostly white and male. A California program aims to help change that.". - NPR
I'm trying to find a quote from LA's mayor but she's in Africa right now.chazzed said:The hilarity does not stem from Trump talking out of nether regions--we all know how childlike he is--but that bear2034 chose to quote him.DiabloWags said:bear2034 said:..Every year, as the fire’s rage & California burns, it is the same thing-and then he comes to the Federal Government for $$$ help. No more. Get your act together Governor. You don’t see close to the level of burn in other states...But our teams are working well together in.....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 3, 2019
Everyone take a deep breath.
The Fire "genius" is speaking about things that he doesn't have a clue about.
Logging? Have you ever been to LA numb nutz?movielover said:
Fire prevention works. How many controlled burns have been conducted in these areas the past five years?
How many fire trails were removed in this area bc of the lawsuit from the Sierra Club?
How much logging / trail clearing has happened here the past ten years?
Were grazing sheep or cattle ever allowed in the area?
VOTE BLUE
Go Bears Forever
Trump is an idiot, this further proves the pointbear2034 said:With proper Forest Management, we can stop the devastation constantly going on in California. Get Smart!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 11, 2018
VOTE BLUE
Go Bears Forever
movielover said:DiabloWags said:Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?
Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.
Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.
Probably in the summer, not now.
Fifth largest economy in the world can't buy 1-2 critical planes?
You have no idea what you're talking about.
No surprise there.
The two CL-415's that have been fighting the fire since Tuesday are sent to California EACH FALL as part of an annual contract that has existed for more than 30 years.
The Santa Ana's typically kick up categorical wind "events" in the Fall thru January.
In fact, in December of 2011 the Santa Ana's were the strongest recorded when sustained winds at 97 mph and gusts up to 167 hit Pasadena and Altadena.
Apparently, you and the Orange Man have never heard of the Santa Ana's.
They've been around for over 5,000 years and been recognized and reported in English language records as a weather phenomenon in SoCal dating back to at least the mid-19th century.
Did you really go to CAL?
'On the frontline': Quebec planes and B.C. firm's helicopters battle L.A. wildfires - MooseJawToday.com
SBGold said:Logging? Have you ever been to LA numb nutz?movielover said:
Fire prevention works. How many controlled burns have been conducted in these areas the past five years?
How many fire trails were removed in this area bc of the lawsuit from the Sierra Club?
How much logging / trail clearing has happened here the past ten years?
Were grazing sheep or cattle ever allowed in the area?
VOTE BLUE
Go Bears Forever
Are you kidding?
He's never been outside of his parents basement.
DiabloWags said:Cal88 said:
Does CA have Canadair water bombers?
Those planes would pay for themselves with a single 6hr mission over LA, the cost of a couple dozen houses.
Yes.
Quebec sends two CL-415's and their crews to LA each year as part of a contract dating back to 1994.
It's an amazing physics equation.
And at the heart of the equation are a pair of Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines each capable of 1,775 kW of thrust.
2 planes really doesn't cut it, in comparison Greece and Italy each have fleets of two dozen Canadairs. California is equally prone to fires with its mediterranean weather and Santa Ana wind patterns. A dozen Canadairs would have knocked down the fires over Pacific Palisades, each plane being capable of up to 20 runs scooping up water from the ocean without refueling.
You might want to take a moment to familiarize yourself with the fleet at CAL FIRE.
It will help you make a much more informed post instead of sounding like a noob.
CAL FIRE's fleet of more than 60 fixed and rotary wing aircraft make it the largest civil aerial firefighting fleet in the world.
Aviation Program | CAL FIRE
It will help you make a much more informed post instead of sounding like a noob.
CAL FIRE's fleet of more than 60 fixed and rotary wing aircraft make it the largest civil aerial firefighting fleet in the world.
Aviation Program | CAL FIRE
Joe Rogan knew.
"...one day there’s going to be the right wind, and the fire is going to start in the right place, and it’s going to burn through LA all the way to the ocean and there’s not a thing we can do about it." https://t.co/8P5OfTWP8y
— Paul Furlong (@MDMPaul) January 8, 2025
concordtom said:
Stucco
Brick
New construction practices need to be mandated in California.
I think this event has convinced me. If I ever build anything, I'm not doing wood.
Wood is best for earthquakes, bricks, not so much.
If you have space, straw bale or rammed earth are fire resistant and also have the best insulation and lowest ecological footprint. Straw bale is highly compressed and coated with a stucco finish, so it is highly fire resistant, counterintuitively so. Rammed earth is a modern take on traditional adobe houses used in older Spanish construction across the West, they knew what they were doing back then.
DiabloWags said:
You might want to take a moment to familiarize yourself with the fleet at CAL FIRE.
It will help you make a much more informed post instead of sounding like a noob.
CAL FIRE's fleet of more than 60 fixed and rotary wing aircraft make it the largest civil aerial firefighting fleet in the world.
Aviation Program | CAL FIRE
As explained in the video I've posted above, a CL-415 can scoop up 1,600 gallons of water in 12 seconds skimming the surface of the ocean or lake without having to land, contrary to every plane on the current Cal Fire fleet. It can operate up to 5-6 hours without refueling.
In the time it takes for a Hercules or all the other Cal Fire planes to fly to a nearby airport after dropping their water load, reload and take off again, a CL-415 Canadair would have made 10 to 20 full runs on a fire that's near the water.
That is why a fleet of a dozen Canadair water bombers dwarfs the Cal Fire fleet in fire suppression capacity, and why countries that are prone to fires in Europe rely almost exclusively on the CL-415. The fleets of Italy or Spain with 24 CL-415 would be the equivalent of hundreds of the fixed wing and helicopters used by Cal Fire.
concordtom said:
Stucco
Brick
New construction practices need to be mandated in California.
I think this event has convinced me. If I ever build anything, I'm not doing wood.
Tom, I hate to break this to you but in the City of Los Angeles (like a lot of areas) all wood shake or wood shingle roof covering is prohibited.
Z:\ADG\LADBS Web Site\LADBSWeb\WebContent\LADBS_Forms\To do sorting backup files\IB-P-BC 2017-013 Roofing Requirements.wpd
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
What I have learned about this from Twitter:
1. It's conservatives' fault because of climate change.
2. It's liberals' fault because of bad California government.
I see the latter position has already been spammed to death here by the usual suspects.
1. It's conservatives' fault because of climate change.
2. It's liberals' fault because of bad California government.
I see the latter position has already been spammed to death here by the usual suspects.
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