Either that, the Border Patrol or the FBI Child Trafficking Task Force. Or Elon Musk's personal man servant.concordtom said:Eastern Oregon Bear said:Your 20/20 hindsight works wonders after the fact, but before the fires, how do you know to deploy 1,000 fire fighters in Pacific Palisades versus a whole list of other locations at risk of having fires burning downhill into residential areas? Places at the base of area mountains and wilderness like Chatsworth, La Cañada-Flintridge, Azusa, Glendora and all the way out to San Bernardino. Not to mention that fires can start inside of the inner cities with winds of that strength. Do you want to gamble all 1,000 at one spot or spread them out among other locations, which would reduce their effectiveness at any one place? Also, why put all 1,000 at Pacific Palisades instead of Altadena?movielover said:
Did you ever listen to Cal alum and West Coast legend Dr. Bill Wattenburg on KGO radio? What a brilliant man, book and real-world smarts. He was an acquired taste due to his temper and serious topics... he didn't spend time fawning over Brittany Spears (Ronn Owens). He became a contemporary of Dr. Glenn Seaborg and Berkeley's world-renowned scientists.
Dr. Bill - who taught physics at Cal, worked on the Apollo Mission, was an inventor, and conducted research at Lawrence Livermore Labs - also fought fires on the down low every summer with his fleet of yellow iron (Caterpillar dozers and heavy equipment). He even ran his bulldozers at night fighting fires even in his mid 60s, cutting fire breaks.
At the end of the Gulf War, more than 550 Kuwaiti oil wells and were ignited by retreating Iraqi troops. Experts said it would take 4, 5 years to put out the fires. Instead of long-term, structured, guaranteed contracts that were being negotiated for fat terms, Dr. Bill claimed to spearhead a different strategy. Companies would be given x number of well fires (say, 5) to put out; when completed, they'd receive x million dollars, and 5 more wells. This incentivized production over Insider deals. The oil well fires were put out in eight months.
Dr. Bill gave the West Coast an education on the airwaves about nuclear power, common sense, and our beloved forests. He grew up in Plumas County, and educated his listeners on maintaining healthy forests and fighting forest fires. He spoke for decades about how our forests are out of "equilibrium". The self-appointed experts let Yellowstone burn, and 1.4 million acres burned. Idiots. We used to have forests in equilibrium with smaller manageable fires, but with decades of mismanagement we now have super fires.
The chapparel in Los Angeles is a little different, but we still have similiar components: excess fuel, poor planning, less firemen and volunteers, few fire breaks or controlled burns. The fuel builds up, which creates bigger problems. L.A. had crazy wind, two wet years (fuel), followed by drought, so fires were expected. But they failed to deploy 1,000 available fire personnel, or equipment to Pacific Palisades. It was a real sh-t show. And to think that LA had dozens of fire personnel probably making $500,000 or more per year. A 117-million-gallon reservoir was left empty, and some out-of-state fire rigs had to pass through Sacramento for certification? Water pumps couldn't run because if kooky Progressive policies (generators would cause pollution). LA County had months to prepare, but multiple LAFD and LADWP leaders stressed DEI was their top priority.
As for Bill Wattenburg, he was a bright man, but he's been dead since 2018, off KGO since 2011 (which is where I suspect you picked up his thoughts) and off the air entirely for over 10 years . His knowledge is becoming more and more out of date all the time.
Movielover is stumping for Special Envoy to SoCal firefighting agencies status in the Trump Administration.
SoCal fires thread
22,927 Views |
647 Replies |
Last: 1 hr ago by movielover
concordtom said:
PS: it's time to underground all electrical lines in fire zone geographies.
Is this economically feasible? No. Not really. But it's necessary.
It's economically feasible to do basic fire prevention, brush removal, fire breaks, etc., we did for decades before California became a Liberal dystopian nightmare. These wounds are self inflicted.
It doesn't take years to create new fire codes or designs. I saw a video on a new house design with a novel approach - only one air duct acccess into the home. That access point prevents embers from entering the attic area and quickly engulfing the home.
Not cutting fire trails in the 1980s because allegedly a mouse couldn't get over the path is beyond absurd, and said mouse isn't an endangered species. A herd of goats is cheap, so are fire inspectors, fines, prison fire fighters and volunteers.
A robust, serious, adult, comprehensive, repetitive fire prevention plan - agressively implemented - would gradually bring insurers back pre Pacific Palisades. The Newsom Administration instead lied, exaggerating fire prevention efforts by over 600%.
Now insane Liberal extremism has dumped millions of tons of chemicals, pollution, and CO2 into the environment.
State Farm canceled 30,000 policies last year because of wildfire risk in these specific areas.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEoETGMSHSj/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEoETGMSHSj/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
Neighbors help fire victims move out belongings.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEpyYyzucwo/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEpyYyzucwo/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==
40-year resident Michael Valentine, a former attorney under Kamala Harris, and timeline, confirm it took 55 MINUTES for the fire department to respond with on-the-ground crew to PP fire.
Resident said he's seen fires before, never such slow response.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE1gSqhxFnk/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Resident said he's seen fires before, never such slow response.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE1gSqhxFnk/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
"But while catastrophe should change how we plan for cities, structures and risk, US history holds few examples of that kind of follow-through, writes Eating Smoke author Mark Tebeau. Calamities are more often forgotten, and bad practices unaltered."
DiabloWags said:
"But while catastrophe should change how we plan for cities, structures and risk, US history holds few examples of that kind of follow-through, writes Eating Smoke author Mark Tebeau. Calamities are more often forgotten, and bad practices unaltered."
Yup, unfortunately California government used bad practices that destroyed the environment, destroyed homes and schools, and left many dead. It is sad.
It is interesting how people here on opposite sides want to focus on only limited facts while ignoring those that don't support their political views.Eastern Oregon Bear said:Indeed. fires like the recent ones in LA have happened in California throughout history. It's only when we started building homes on the edge of wilderness areas that neighborhoods lost to wildfires became more common and widespread. Building at the urban-rural interface started with our grandfathers and great grand fathers, if not earlier, and continues to this day. It's the payback for the growth of cities beyond what reasonably available resources there are to fight wildfires that start in or near these rural-urban areas.sycasey said:They are not great points. He's citing a time when there were a lot fewer people living in the L.A. basin, so it was easier to protect from fires. The rest is old-man-yells-at-cloud stuff. Just blaming everything everywhere on the younger generation and the "libs" without any further analysis.oski003 said:movielover said:AunBear89 said:No, I don't think anyone thinks the scope (or, SCOPE) of the tragedy could have prevented anything. I don't understand the question.oski003 said:
So you don't think the SCOPE of this tragedy could have prevented?
Ignorance is bliss. Our grandfathers and great grandfather's had no problems limiting fires, covering the basics, or working hard. Liberals created a Tinder Box in a desert and then blame fires on LNG.
Now we have soft individuals sitting behind computers, pampered, delusional, just like the UCLA basketball team (successful HC rant today calling then all delusional). These pretend professionals lecture us on DEI or global warming while some are morbidly obese.
Modern Liberals created Super-fires, not the Global Warming hypothesis. It's a destructive idealogy. Look at Germany (de industrializing), Britain (hiding mass racist rape and torture gangs for three plus decades), Sweden (now a leading rape Capitol), France, etc.
Great points movielover. Unfortunately, they fall on insanely partisan, deaf ears.
- Fires (and drought) have always been a problem in California.
- That was true before what we now call climate change. So those seeking to blame climate change (or claim it is the primary cause) are coopting this issue to advance a different political goal. Climate change is one factor - not the only one.
- In comparison to the past, more homes are being built close to high fire hazard zones (a term I prefer over wilderness areas, but I'll use them interchangeably for this conversation). However, that is only part of the story.
- California has actually created more fire hazard zones through a variety of polices.
- For example, I live adjacent to a County regional park which is now a high fire zone. 35 years ago, that was private land maintained and cultivated by a large land owner (the Irvine Company) that was charged with preventing fires. The County/City required the creation of the regional park/wildfire area as a condition to development of homes. So, in effect, the County/City created (or at least significantly increased) the fire hazard risk to the newly built homes by requiring the creation of an adjacent park. Is that a good thing? Maybe . . . but only if the park is properly maintained.
- This reflects an overall trend in California and really the US. There is significantly more dedicated public space, regional parks, national parks, etc. than there was 30+ years ago. Obviously, more "wildlife" areas = more wildlife fires.
- In the case of my community, there is a homeowners association area between homes and the regional park. The fire authority makes the HOA aggressively implement fuel modification zones (i.e., clearing). Every year there's a full inspection and the fire authority has significantly increased the clearing requirements. The HOA gets fined if we don't comply. In the immediately adjacent regional park, they do seemingly nothing (and for sure far less) to mitigate fire. It is completely overgrown.
- Having created these additional wilderness areas, the government has utterly failed to effectively implement fire protection plans/clearing.
- One of the reasons there has not been clearing is that environmental groups have weaponized state and federal laws to prevent it (including fewer controlled burns). Lots of links in this thread about red tape and litigation hindering clearing efforts. We need to change the laws.
- Your assertion of "growth of cities beyond what reasonably available resources" is just a complete cop out. The primary obligation of cities is to protect health and safety which most notably includes fire and police. In the case of LA, the city also provides water and power, so we can add those essential services impacting fire risk. Cities (and in particular the city of LA) have plenty of resources to address the increased fire risks (including the resources for fire clearing). They choose not to allocate the resources.
The solutions to increased fire risk are fairly obvious. More fire fighting capabilities. Much much more fire prevention/clearing with corresponding changes in law. Better water infrastructure and advance planning. Perhaps less open space. It is a lack of will, largely driven by politics. Some conservatives don't want to acknowledge climate change or perhaps support increased spending; some liberals won't acknowledge the role of environmental laws/groups/litigation and/or the abject negligence of liberal controlled government.
Great points. Every President, especially Democrat Presidents, seek to add more national parks. But they don't maintain what they already have.
This includes California, where 60% of forests are Federal lands. Why don't we push President Trump to clean those ASAP.
Los Angeles Largest Wildfires
Pacific Palisades- 2025 - 23,700 - 5,000 struct, 24 deaths
Johnston - 1960 - 23,200 - 4 structures
Canyon - 1968 - 22,200 acres - 0
Marple 1996 - 21,500 - 1 structure
Curve - 2002 - 20,850 - 72 structures
Old Topanga - 1993 - 18,500 - 350 structures, 3 deaths
Liberty - 1958 - 17,860 - 107 structures, 1 death
Pine - 2004 - 17,400 - 15 structures, 1 death
Trippet - 1938 - 16,500 - 350 structures
Creek - 2017 - 15,600 - 123 structures
Woodland Hills - 1943 - 15,300 - 0 structures
Potrero - 1930 - 15,000 - 0 structures
Ploecat - 1960 - 14,737 - 0 structures
Porter Rnh - 2007 - 14,700 - 78 structures, 1 death
Monrovia - 1953 - 14,135 - N/A
Eaton - 2025 - 14,100 - 7,000 structures, 17 deaths
https://www.wildfirela.org/history/
It's notable that most of the larger fires are in modern times.
* Acreage and death tolls haven't been updated in several days.
This includes California, where 60% of forests are Federal lands. Why don't we push President Trump to clean those ASAP.
Los Angeles Largest Wildfires
Pacific Palisades- 2025 - 23,700 - 5,000 struct, 24 deaths
Johnston - 1960 - 23,200 - 4 structures
Canyon - 1968 - 22,200 acres - 0
Marple 1996 - 21,500 - 1 structure
Curve - 2002 - 20,850 - 72 structures
Old Topanga - 1993 - 18,500 - 350 structures, 3 deaths
Liberty - 1958 - 17,860 - 107 structures, 1 death
Pine - 2004 - 17,400 - 15 structures, 1 death
Trippet - 1938 - 16,500 - 350 structures
Creek - 2017 - 15,600 - 123 structures
Woodland Hills - 1943 - 15,300 - 0 structures
Potrero - 1930 - 15,000 - 0 structures
Ploecat - 1960 - 14,737 - 0 structures
Porter Rnh - 2007 - 14,700 - 78 structures, 1 death
Monrovia - 1953 - 14,135 - N/A
Eaton - 2025 - 14,100 - 7,000 structures, 17 deaths
https://www.wildfirela.org/history/
It's notable that most of the larger fires are in modern times.
* Acreage and death tolls haven't been updated in several days.
movielover said:
40-year resident Michael Valentine, a former attorney under Kamala Harris, and timeline, confirm it took 55 MINUTES for the fire department to respond with on-the-ground crew to PP fire.
Resident said he's seen fires before, never such slow response.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE1gSqhxFnk/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
"According to most records, the largest wildfire in history occurred in Russia, specifically in Eastern Siberia during 2003, known as the "Siberian Taiga Fires," which burned an estimated 55 million acres of land across the region; making it the largest wildfire ever recorded."
-Google AI Overview
*To get a perspective of the scale of that: California contains 100 million acres
-Google AI Overview
*To get a perspective of the scale of that: California contains 100 million acres
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Blowtorch, and no charges for arson?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEp-9jISOIG/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEp-9jISOIG/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Short clip here of a new modern house which survived the PP fire: tempered glass, metal roof, stark eves, only one air intake (prevents embers being sucked inside the attic), limited landscaping.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE7hbfRxEph/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE7hbfRxEph/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
bearister said:
"According to most records, the largest wildfire in history occurred in Russia, specifically in Eastern Siberia during 2003, known as the "Siberian Taiga Fires," which burned an estimated 55 million acres of land across the region; making it the largest wildfire ever recorded."
-Google AI Overview
*To get a perspective of the scale of that: California contains 100 million acres
That fire was roughly the size of the area burned on an average year in the US a century ago.
Update: Assorted fact checkers deem these claims false. Generally, their companies combine to use less than 1% of CA water.DiabloWags said:MinotStateBeav said:
Worth a watch on this video.One billionaire couple owns almost all the water in California.
— More Perfect Union (@MorePerfectUS) January 8, 2025
In 1994, the Resnicks secretly seized control of California’s public water supply.
Now their companies use 150 billion gallons every year while working class people suffer under drought conditions. pic.twitter.com/1xu1LzvJYS
I once read about the Resnick's in the following article from Mother Jones, August of 2016.
It's an amazing article if you have time to read it.
They own quite the Agricultural Empire. They are the world's biggest producers of pistachios and almonds.
They also own Fiji Water, Teleflora, and the iconic pomegranate juice brand, POM.
All told, they own America's second largest produce company, worth well over $4 Billion.
Meet the California Couple Who Uses More Water Than Every Home in Los Angeles Combined Mother Jones
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/jan/14/more-perfect-union/does-a-billionaire-couple-own-almost-all-the-water/
I am a big believer in chemtrails and Alaska Airlines, and I find it awful how emboldened they've become ever since the fires broke out, although it seems like it's been more like yellow planes rather than Alaska lately. That stuff is not good for you.
Why are you referencing an article from Mother Jones when your link to politifact is referencing a post on Instagram from a media outfit called a More Perfect Union which you fail to highlight.
Your reading comprehension is poor.
Conflate much?
Your reading comprehension is poor.
Conflate much?
Forest from trees.DiabloWags said:
Why are you referencing an article from Mother Jones when your link to politifact is referencing a post on Instagram from a media outfit called a More Perfect Union which you fail to highlight.
Your reading comprehension is poor.
Conflate much?
The point was the fact check of the claims about billionaires owning excess water, which is apparently false.
Last I read, almonds, pistachios, and pomegranates are pretty healthy.
Gavin Newsom has implied many times that the 2018 Paradise fire was the result of climate change. It wasn't. It was the result of the utility company being negligent and too cheap to replace a 97 year old metal hook that cost less than a dollar. The specific hook that failed is… pic.twitter.com/Ubf730KfjU
— MAZE (@mazemoore) January 19, 2025
It didn't have to burn 153,000 acres if we maintained our forests. The extremists prevent all useful activities.
And we have another battery fire.
New York State and California are Hell-bent on building massive
— Patrick Moore (@EcoSenseNow) January 18, 2025
Lithium-ion batteries to supply the vast majority of their electricity when the wind and sun are not available. This despite the fact that massive battery fires are becoming a regular feature. https://t.co/dEEVY5qdDe
LAFD Expose: Fire houses neglected, massive mold, equipment shortages, Union rules
LAFD: The situation inside Los Angeles’ fire department is worse than you can imagine. Watch… pic.twitter.com/U3HlUSRSFH
— @amuse (@amuse) January 19, 2025
I remember the guy who called me Newscum in 7th grade. I can handle that. This isn’t about me. It’s about the people we represent -- and the aid they deserve. pic.twitter.com/GgoUc0TSYB
— Gavin Newsom (@GavinNewsom) January 15, 2025
One challenge of being a Democratic politician in a Democratic stronghold is that there are no Republicans to blame.
movielover said:
Last I read, almonds, pistachios, and pomegranates are pretty healthy.
Last I heard, pistachios and almonds require a ton more water to grow compared to other crops.
It takes 1.1 gallons to grow a single almond.
Never mind that most of the almond crop in California gets exported to Asia-Pacific.
In fact, the Central Valley produces about 75% of the global crop.
I bet those Farmers who voted for Trump can't wait for those TARIFFS to kick in.
movielover said:
It didn't have to burn 153,000 acres if we maintained our forests. The extremists prevent all useful activities.
Why would you care?
What forest do you live near?
JUST IN: A couple from Oregon were arrested in Los Angeles after impersonating firefighters and attempting to enter an evacuation zone. ONE OF THEM SERVED 5 YEARS IN PRISON FOR ARSON.
— Libs of TikTok (@libsoftiktok) January 20, 2025
They claimed to be from the "Roaring River Fire Dept" which doesn't exist. they reportedly… pic.twitter.com/mlUW9aif6Q
Arsonists?
WATER PLANE LOADS UP AT RESERVOIR
20 seconds
20 seconds
bear2034 said:I remember the guy who called me Newscum in 7th grade. I can handle that. This isn’t about me. It’s about the people we represent -- and the aid they deserve. pic.twitter.com/GgoUc0TSYB
— Gavin Newsom (@GavinNewsom) January 15, 2025
One challenge of being a Democratic politician in a Democratic stronghold is that there are no Republicans to blame.
There are many problems, including lack of logic, ethics, work ethic and basic math. Local government employees and policies are often driven by whacky local politics, like 'DEI' or hiring a no-water-experience CEO for double her predecessor ($750,000).
In the case of LAFD and LADWP, there were dozens of errors, including:
- no fire engine at PP fire for 55 minutes
- limited water
- didn't follow their own policy to pre-position assets
- couldn't use diesel-powered pumps for water (south bay air quality regs)
- didn't use 1,000 firemen already on hand (sent home)
- gadfly mayor in Africa; deputy mayor on leave, suspected by FBI for possibly making a bomb threat
- 117-million-gallon reservoir empty for 10 months
And Newsom still thinks he can be POTUS...
As my LEO friend (Sheriff) told me a week ago, assets should have been pre positioned, and a LOT MORE assets should have been called in. (A few assets were in Hollywood and the Valley?)
Second, a few days later I discovered their actual department policies - in writing - say to pre position assets in extreme fire conditions. They didn't.
As my LEO friend (Sheriff) told me a week ago, assets should have been pre positioned, and a LOT MORE assets should have been called in. (A few assets were in Hollywood and the Valley?)
Second, a few days later I discovered their actual department policies - in writing - say to pre position assets in extreme fire conditions. They didn't.
LA Arson suspect an lllegal immigrant, in trouble w law 17 times in 8 years.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE3O3HOyvYe/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE3O3HOyvYe/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
You are an information arsonist.
On Friday, President Trump will visit Los Angeles.
Hopefully he will dispatch the Army Corps of Engineers and the Navy Seabees to aid infrastructure recovery and debris removal.
I would also hope that he gets Governor Newsom to immediately commit to large-scale forest maintenance, where Newsom could also ask President Trump for the same commitment on California Federal lands.
Hopefully he will dispatch the Army Corps of Engineers and the Navy Seabees to aid infrastructure recovery and debris removal.
I would also hope that he gets Governor Newsom to immediately commit to large-scale forest maintenance, where Newsom could also ask President Trump for the same commitment on California Federal lands.
movielover said:
On Friday, President Trump will visit Los Angeles.
Hopefully he will dispatch the Army Corps of Engineers and the Navy Seabees to aid infrastructure recovery and debris removal.
I would also hope that he gets Governor Newsom to immediately commit to large-scale forest maintenance, where Newsom could also ask President Trump for the same commitment on California Federal lands.
I'm surprised you didn't propose we cut down the entire Sierra and Cascadia forests. That would lower price of lumber, right?
You think it's a wise idea to not maintain our forests for 4-5 decades?
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