I recently watched a long video interview with Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google. He apparently spoke on this issue to Congress, which I'll look for, but he said that the race with China is not going to be about military or supercomputers or trade - it's going to be ENERGY.

And China is winning.
That has stuck with me.

I'm going to post the story in pieces in my head.

China's turnaround on air pollution and solar energy is one of the most dramatic environmental pivots in modern historydriven by necessity, political will, and sheer scale.

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How China Cleaned Up Its Urban Air

Key Strategies

Air Pollution Action Plan (2013): This was the cornerstone policy targeting PM2.5 (fine particulate matter). It mandated: Coal plant shutdowns in major cities
Cleaner industrial processes
Vehicle emission controls
Expansion of natural gas infrastructure

Low Emission Zones (LEZs): Cities like Beijing and Shenzhen restricted high-emission vehicles and promoted electric fleets.
Electrification of Transit: Shenzhen became the first city globally to fully electrify its bus fleet (16,000+ buses).
Beijing followed with over 6,500 electric buses.

Monitoring & Enforcement: Real-time air quality data and satellite tracking
Local officials held accountable for pollution metrics



Results

PM2.5 Reduction: From 72 g/m in 2013 to 29 g/m in 2022a 60% drop
Health Impact: Estimated to increase life expectancy by 2.2 years if sustained
"Beijing Blue": Once mocked as temporary, now a symbol of lasting improvement


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China's Photovoltaic (PV) Expansion Model

Scale & Speed

Installed Capacity: Surpassed 1,100 GW by mid-2025
Annual Additions: 150200 GW per year since 2024
Global Share: Over 1/3 of the world's solar panels are installed in China


Strategic Moves

Five-Year Plans: Every plan since the 1980s has supported solar manufacturing and deployment
Desert Solar Parks: Tengger Desert Solar Park: 1.5 GW
Huanghe Hydropower Hainan Solar Park: 2.2 GW

Floating Solar: Deployed on reservoirs and industrial ponds to conserve land and water
Hydro-Solar Hybrids: Sichuan's massive hydro-solar plant balances intermittent solar with steady hydro output


Manufacturing Dominance

China leads in every part of the solar supply chain: Polysilicon
Wafers
Cells
Modules



Export & Influence

Produces 600700 GW of PV annually, with ~40% exported
Drives global price reductions and accessibility


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Interconnection: Air & Solar

China's PV boom isn't just about climateit's a direct response to its air pollution crisis. By replacing coal with solar and electrifying transport, it tackled both emissions and public health. The synergy between environmental cleanup and renewable energy deployment is now a blueprint for other nations.

The American mindset?

Good thread.

This is what Schmidt is referring to:


The problem in the US is that solar and alternative energy have been framed in narrow ideological terms, not in utilitarian, practical terms, which make energy policy captive to partisan politics.

Excellent post and more excellent chart. A podcast I was listening to referenced those stats and I was shocked. I paused and rewound it to hear it again, twice! But the graphic shows it more clearly.
Thank you!

Your conclusion is spot on! US mindset is messed up on this.

I'm acquiring used solar panels at $10 each. Building my own solar farm. Inverters(s) will cost a couple grand, but I'll never have to pay for PG&E again. They want to charge me 62 cents per kWh. I'm building for 5.

But drill baby drill.

I'm gonna have my own EV charger, too.
Photon Food is what I call it. AKA Free energy!

Yes, I heard that China was adding the power equivalent of an Italy or France to their energy production grid every year, a shocking number. As a result they also have very low energy costs, the variable production costs on renewable (including nuclear) being very low.

They're building 26 nuclear plants and are planning hundreds more. A lot of interesting data here:
https://x.com/search?q=china%20energy%20production%20growth&src=typed_query&f=top

We can concede on solar power where they have been way ahead for over a decade now, but should try to catch up on key industries like nuclear energy, fusion research, and through technology transfers taking out a page from China's playbook, EVs.

Quote:

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China has a lot more motivation- energy importer, big coal user, unhealthy air; plus they have a national energy policy not fifty states doing their own thing.

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They do have a high level of internal competition between provinces/big cities in industries like EV or aerospace, with local champions vying for domestic supremacy, but the overall guidelines are set by the state, as was the case in Japan (MITI) and S. Korea. China's sheer size makes it a formidable competitor.

For example in EVs you had a big push with 400+ car companies from all over that country competing in a cutthroat environment, not unlike what we had in the US in the early days of the car industry or PC industry before consolidation, except those industries were more geographically contained (Detroit and SV mostly). From those 400 Chinese EV companies you have a half dozen winners emerging.

The subsidies helped but weren't a decisive factor because the US, EU, Japan also subsidize and protect their auto industries. Chinese companies have low capital costs, low input costs (energy, metal, components, labor), a large domestic talent pool and a massive domestic market, they are Japan on steroids.

Cal88 said:

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Good thread.

This is what Schmidt is referring to:


The problem in the US is that solar and alternative energy have been framed in narrow ideological terms, not in utilitarian, practical terms, which make energy policy captive to partisan politics.

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The above chart is electricity generation in total.
The below is specific to PV (solar).



Chart of global solar PV installed capacity by country (20202024)

One of the reasons why China can manufacture stuff so much cheaper, install stuff so much cheaper, is because they don't have the special interest lobby groups (like unions) that jack prices up to oblivion.

But I'm generally anti minimum wage, don't ya know??

Quote:

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in California, it's now required for certain commercial solar projects under Assembly Bill 2143 (AB 2143).

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What Is Prevailing Wage?

Prevailing wage is a legally mandated minimum wage for workers on public or qualifying private projects. It's set by the California Department of Industrial Relations (DIR) and reflects union-scale wages for specific trades in each county.

So if you're hiring electricians, laborers, or solar installers for a qualifying project, you must pay them at least the prevailing wage ratewhich is often significantly higher than standard market wages.

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When Does It Apply to Solar Projects?

Under AB 2143, effective January 1, 2024, prevailing wage applies to:

Non-residential solar projects over 15 kW
Projects that interconnect under net energy metering (NEM) or net billing tariffs
Includes associated battery storage if part of the same facility


Examples of Affected Projects:

Commercial rooftop solar (e.g., warehouses, schools)
Ground-mounted solar farms for private businesses
Community-scale solar arrays with NEM or net billing


Exemptions:

Residential systems under 15 kW
Single-family homes
Modular homes or multi-family buildings with 2 stories


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Compliance Requirements

Contractors must submit certified payroll records to the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) twice a year
Projects must maintain wage transparency and avoid violations, or risk losing access to NEM/NBT benefits
The interconnection application date is the key trigger for determining whether AB 2143 applies.


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Why It Matters for You

If you're planning to own and operate a solar farm, this impacts:

Labor budgeting: Prevailing wage can increase install costs by 2030%
Contractor selection: You'll need firms experienced in public works compliance
Timeline planning: Payroll documentation and CPUC filings add complexity.


But it also ensures quality workmanship, supports a skilled labor force, and aligns with state-level clean energy goals.

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All the more reason to buy it from them

Exactly.
That is the point of Free Trade.
But then we feel sorry for ourselves, so we block it from coming in, and do without - which then makes us even more uncompetitive because our energy input costs are higher across the board.
So, brilliant, right???

But, always remember the slogan:

Moving on…

Let's see how far behind we are in using water as a location source for Floating PV farms.
Did you know that the panels are more efficient with the cool water temperatures than on land?
And they shade for less evaporation.

The largest floating solar farm in the United States is located in Short Hills, New Jersey, at the Canoe Brook Reservoir. It's an 8.9 megawatt (MW) installation owned and operated by NJR Clean Energy Ventures, officially brought online in 2023. 17 acres.

The second largest in the USA is at the Healdsburg water treatment facility.
4.78 MW




Here's a ranked list of the world's largest floating photovoltaic (FPV) farms by installed capacity, based on the most recent data from global energy sources:

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Largest Floating Solar Farms by Capacity

Rank
Project Name
Country
Capacity
Water Body

1 Saemangeum FPV Project
South Korea
2.1 GW (planned)
Yellow Sea estuary

2 Omkareshwar Dam FPV
India
600 MW (under development)
Narmada River reservoir

3 Huaneng Dingzhuang FPV
China
320 MW
Reservoir near Dezhou, Shandong

4 Hangzhou Fengling FPV
China
320 MW
Artificial lake

5 Three Gorges FPV
China
150 MW Former coal mine lake, Anhui
6 Cirata Reservoir FPV Indonesia 145 MW
Cirata Dam reservoir

7 NTPC Kayamkulam FPV
India
105 MW
Kayamkulam backwaters

8 NTPC Ramagundam FPV
India
100 MW
Thermal plant reservoir

9 CECEP FPV Project
China
70 MW
Former mining lake

Sembcorp Tuas FPV
Singapore
60 MW
Tengeh Reservoir


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Observations

Asia dominates the FPV landscape, especially China, India, and South Korea.
Many of these projects are built on repurposed industrial sitescoal mines, thermal plant reservoirs, or estuarine flats.
Hybridization is a growing trend: Huaneng's Dingzhuang project combines solar, wind (100 MW), and battery storage (8 MWh).

Did you notice that?
India has 3 in the top ten.
India!
We are nowhere to be seen.

No way.
Super healthy!
The water arrives pre-charged with electrolytes!


LATE ADD: I can't believe I got no laughs for that reply!

Bill McKibben:

"A ship carrying solar panels across the ocean will deliver equipment that produces 500 times more energy over its lifetime than a ship carrying coal to be burned."

CORN IS THE #1 CROP GROWN IN USA

LAND USE EFFICIENCY CONSIDERED:

Annual Energy Output:

Solar Panels (1 acre)
~500,000 kWh
Or
~1.2 million EV miles

Ethanol Corn (1 acre)
~7,000 kWh
Or
~15,000 gas miles

CONCLUSION: Solar is 70% better.
Plus: No tilling, planting, harvesting, or emissions. Electrons flow over wires, require no refining.

So, why is the corn lobby so big?




What do we do with all the corn we grow? (2024 Estimates)

Ethanol Production
~40%
Converted into fuel ethanol; co-products like DDGS go to feed

Animal Feed
~36%
Fed to livestock directly or via ethanol co-products

Exports
~13%
Shipped abroad for feed, food, or industrial use

Food & Industrial
~10%
Includes corn syrup, starch, cereal, snacks, and alcohol

Seed & Other
~1%
Used for planting and miscellaneous uses

Some people don't like solar farms because they blot out other natural life.

But I dare say, corn is a mono-crop with pesticides galore that blots out other natural life. So, if we can get 70x more energy from solar farming vs corn…. (?)

Anarchistbear said:

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It's government subsidy for Midwest farmers.

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Yes.
US policies often suck.

It was enlightening to learn about the energy compare between corn and PV. I imagine it gets worse if one adds in all the man hours and additional energy inputs to produce the corn year after year. Like, wow! What a joke!! Tractors: tillers, planters, spray applications, harvesters, transportation to refineries, etc etc etc.

And while NOBODY was watching...

...Russian research ships discovered the biggest oil field EVER.

Location: the Weddell Sea in the Antarctic.

Estimated reserves: 511 billion barrels.

That's double Saudi reserves & over 10 TIMES the North Sea output for half a century.… pic.twitter.com/DUR1o3LUUF

— Pepe Escobar (@RealPepeEscobar) August 29, 2025

Will they claim ownership?

China planning large rollout of Thorium molten salt nuclear reactors, eventually replacing their coal plants.

The Chinese plan to replace old coal electricity generation plants with Thorium MSR plants is genius, leverages installed turbines and transmission grid for rapid scaling of cheap, abundant, safe power. When shared with BRI partners it will transform the global South. https://t.co/EIPgCdo0s7 pic.twitter.com/gMXAYnRz2d

— Kathleen Tyson (@Kathleen_Tyson_) September 17, 2025

But what about all the Chinese coal miners???

Thorium, safer than uranium, explained.

I was thinking clean water and air …

concordtom said:

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But what about all the Chinese coal miners???

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There is so much of it that they still need, it will take them a long time to reduce their dependence on coal. They consume half the world's coal production.

Quote:

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In May 2024, coal accounted for 53% of China's electricity generation, a record low for the country, though still a significant portion of its overall energy mix. Globally, China remains the largest coal consumer, with reports indicating its consumption was around 54% of the global total in 2021 and 55% in 2022.

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shao ba, baobei, shao ba

another huuge energy problem..
https://www.nation.com.pk/18-Sep-2025/the-house-is-on-fire /* freebie? */

I couldn't find the clip in Inconvenient Truth where Gore predicted dozens or hundreds of millions of ENVIRONMENTAL REFUGEES from Bangladesh - a nation with the population all living at like 4' elevation.

Environmental refugees will ultimately cause wars, or mass deaths, because nobody wants to share, or see their culture altered. We already see what happens when a few Mexicans look for work in white towns.

I think it's good to speak up for what's right. It's good to be involved in the process.
But I also think about simply fleeing to the wilderness and letting people duke it out without me. Canada should be pretty good.
Actually, it's my kids and grandkids that should move. Now, while land is still available.

Siberia could be good land in a few decades, too.

Eventually, ugliness will reach everywhere. But I'll be long gone by then.