https://www.autonocion.com/us/prius-sales-toyota-explains/

As part of the continuing discussions on EVs.

Sounds like Toyota is losing sales of it's hybrid (Prius) for it's other hybrid (Camry).

As a former Prius driver and current Tesla Model 3 driver my thinking is '"what's next?". Both were top affordable fuel efficient cars when I got them. My next purchase I'll want to go forward not backward. Though I am intrigued by the less affordable Lucid, which has access to the Tesla supercharger network.

Prius drivers are some of the worst on the road.
Braindead.

The stereotype is true.

Maybe people dont want to be seen as "brainless".
Hence, the Camry ... which is a much larger vehicle.

Nearly 2.5" wider.
And one foot longer.

DiabloWags said:

---

Prius drivers are some of the worst on the road.
Braindead.

The stereotype is true.

Maybe people dont want to be seen as "brainless".
Hence, the Camry ... which is a much larger vehicle.

Nearly 2.5" wider.
And one foot longer.

---

Camry is a good car but about as plain vanilla as you can get. My Mom and mother in law both had them.

I need more $TSLA stock. pic.twitter.com/5EJnbc34wK

— Pejjy (@CuriousPejjy) April 11, 2026

dajo9 said:

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DiabloWags said:

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Prius drivers are some of the worst on the road.
Braindead.

The stereotype is true.

Maybe people dont want to be seen as "brainless".
Hence, the Camry ... which is a much larger vehicle.

Nearly 2.5" wider.
And one foot longer.

---

Camry is a good car but about as plain vanilla as you can get. My Mom and mother in law both had them.

---

The base model starts at $29,300 and the top of the line Camry goes for $35,700.
Premium packages start at $3,800 and go to $4,700.
All wheel drive will cost you another $1500.


It's not a sportscar.
And it's not all that peppy given a 4-cylinder engine at 225 HP.
But it provides decent value for the money and 50 mpg.

2026 Toyota Camry | Toyota.com

dajo9 said:

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Sounds like Toyota is losing sales of it's hybrid (Prius) for it's other hybrid (Camry).

As a former Prius driver and current Tesla Model 3 driver my thinking is '"what's next?". Both were top affordable fuel efficient cars when I got them. My next purchase I'll want to go forward not backward. Though I am intrigued by the less affordable Lucid, which has access to the Tesla supercharger network.

---

What's next?

Your post prompted me to knee jerk respond that cheap Chinese EVs that run on LFP battery packs are next. Everyone is switching from NMC to LFP, no? Fire risk.

Then the Donut battery hype came along, still waiting to hear if that's real.

Then I just saw this video, first few minutes say Tesla is ramping up Optimus at Fremont, which I didn't think they were ready for - because, what the hell is the use case so far? But, yes, I would like a robot to go get me fresh squeezed orange juice right now, as I awake in bed.



Intrigued by the haps at Fremont, I asked for a review, and Google AI told me this:

Quote:

---

Tesla is currently transforming a significant portion of its Fremont, California, factory into a high-volume manufacturing hub for its Optimus humanoid robots. As of early 2026, the company is phasing out production of the Model S and Model X to repurpose that space for robot production, marking a major shift towards robotics and artificial intelligence.

Here are the key details regarding Tesla's Fremont-Optimus shift:

Production Goals:
Tesla plans to establish a production line at Fremont capable of producing 1 million Optimus robots per year.

Factory Changes:
Approximately one-fifth of the 6.2-million-square-foot Fremont factory is being converted, with additional nearby industrial properties in Fremont recently leased for R&D and storage to support the push.

Model S/X Shutdown:
Production of the Model S and Model X is winding down in spring 2026 to make way for the new lines.

Model 3/Y Continuity:
Despite the change in high-end vehicle manufacturing, Tesla will continue to produce the refreshed Model 3 and Model Y at the Fremont facility, which will remain a major vehicle factory.

No Layoffs Expected:
Despite the shift in production, Elon Musk has indicated that the company expects to increase the headcount at the Fremont factory as Optimus production ramps up.

Operational Status (2026):
The Optimus Gen 2 (and upcoming Gen 3) is already being deployed internally in Tesla factories for tasks such as battery cell sorting, parts handling, and quality inspection.

Why the Shift?

AI Pivot:
Tesla is moving toward an "autonomous future," with Musk forecasting that Optimus will be a critical part of the company's long-term value, potentially surpassing the vehicle business in scale.

Declining S/X Demand:
The shift is partially motivated by falling sales of the older, luxury Model S and X vehicles, while demand for humanoid labor grows.

Cost Goals:
Tesla aims to use automotive manufacturing techniques to significantly reduce the cost of the robot, aiming for a retail price of around $20,000$30,000

---

Yes, I realize this won't hype you up for what car to buy next.

dajo9 said:

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US and European automakers are complete failures with EV. Their only interest was expensive cars with high margins. Except Tesla but then Musk crapped on his customers. We protect our market from China's affordable EVs because we can't let US consumers get something affordable and useful. That would hurt profits.

Personally, like I said, Im looking forward to going upscale (Lucid?) but it's a shame that other US consumers can't get the cheap Chinese EVs.

---

You can apparently purchase cheap upscale from China, too. But we will never know how those perform in US crash tests because the Chinese might know where someone is located.

If you want to know where someone is, just ask Apple.
If you want to know where someone drives, just consult the ever expanding network of licensed plate reading traffic cams.

America!

concordtom said:

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dajo9 said:

---

US and European automakers are complete failures with EV. Their only interest was expensive cars with high margins. Except Tesla but then Musk crapped on his customers. We protect our market from China's affordable EVs because we can't let US consumers get something affordable and useful. That would hurt profits.

Personally, like I said, Im looking forward to going upscale (Lucid?) but it's a shame that other US consumers can't get the cheap Chinese EVs.

---

You can apparently purchase cheap upscale from China, too. But we will never know how those perform in US crash tests because the Chinese might know where someone is located.

If you want to know where someone is, just ask Apple.
If you want to know where someone drives, just consult the ever expanding network of licensed plate reading traffic cams.

America!

---

Our current US government is more a threat to do something harmful in America with that info than the Chinese govt

That's actually completely true, come to think of it.

It was an upper middle class tax cut, terrible policy

dajo9 said:

---

US and European automakers are complete failures with EV. Their only interest was expensive cars with high margins. Except Tesla but then Musk crapped on his customers. We protect our market from China's affordable EVs because we can't let US consumers get something affordable and useful. That would hurt profits.

Personally, like I said, Im looking forward to going upscale (Lucid?) but it's a shame that other US consumers can't get the cheap Chinese EVs.

---

China makes plenty of upscale EVs at nearly half the price of their US/euro/Jap/SK equivalents.

These vehicles are not going to hit the US market anytime soon for political reasons, but you will see them in Mexico and Canada.

The US EV market is going to subsidize EVs that won't sell well outside of the US.

concordtom said:

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dajo9 said:

---

Sounds like Toyota is losing sales of it's hybrid (Prius) for it's other hybrid (Camry).

As a former Prius driver and current Tesla Model 3 driver my thinking is '"what's next?". Both were top affordable fuel efficient cars when I got them. My next purchase I'll want to go forward not backward. Though I am intrigued by the less affordable Lucid, which has access to the Tesla supercharger network.

---

What's next?

Your post prompted me to knee jerk respond that cheap Chinese EVs that run on LFP battery packs are next. Everyone is switching from NMC to LFP, no? Fire risk.

Then the Donut battery hype came along, still waiting to hear if that's real.

Then I just saw this video, first few minutes say Tesla is ramping up Optimus at Fremont, which I didn't think they were ready for - because, what the hell is the use case so far? But, yes, I would like a robot to go get me fresh squeezed orange juice right now, as I awake in bed.



Intrigued by the haps at Fremont, I asked for a review, and Google AI told me this:

Quote:

---

Tesla is currently transforming a significant portion of its Fremont, California, factory into a high-volume manufacturing hub for its Optimus humanoid robots. As of early 2026, the company is phasing out production of the Model S and Model X to repurpose that space for robot production, marking a major shift towards robotics and artificial intelligence.

Here are the key details regarding Tesla's Fremont-Optimus shift:

Production Goals:
Tesla plans to establish a production line at Fremont capable of producing 1 million Optimus robots per year.

Factory Changes:
Approximately one-fifth of the 6.2-million-square-foot Fremont factory is being converted, with additional nearby industrial properties in Fremont recently leased for R&D and storage to support the push.

Model S/X Shutdown:
Production of the Model S and Model X is winding down in spring 2026 to make way for the new lines.

Model 3/Y Continuity:
Despite the change in high-end vehicle manufacturing, Tesla will continue to produce the refreshed Model 3 and Model Y at the Fremont facility, which will remain a major vehicle factory.

No Layoffs Expected:
Despite the shift in production, Elon Musk has indicated that the company expects to increase the headcount at the Fremont factory as Optimus production ramps up.

Operational Status (2026):
The Optimus Gen 2 (and upcoming Gen 3) is already being deployed internally in Tesla factories for tasks such as battery cell sorting, parts handling, and quality inspection.

Why the Shift?

AI Pivot:
Tesla is moving toward an "autonomous future," with Musk forecasting that Optimus will be a critical part of the company's long-term value, potentially surpassing the vehicle business in scale.

Declining S/X Demand:
The shift is partially motivated by falling sales of the older, luxury Model S and X vehicles, while demand for humanoid labor grows.

Cost Goals:
Tesla aims to use automotive manufacturing techniques to significantly reduce the cost of the robot, aiming for a retail price of around $20,000$30,000

---

Yes, I realize this won't hype you up for what car to buy next.

---

I think Dajo isn't your audience. I am.

The stuff in that insightful video you posted is mind bending. Things like that make this forum worth reading. Thanks. I really like how the guy was able to explain all these changes at my non-techie level. It tells me my next car probably is Tesla, which I don't drive. And it will be at a rather low cost. This would be the 6th EV for us as we were early adapters (we also always have a plug in hybrid in case something happens to the electrical grid). But the future is autonomous and at a lot lower cost. I was also surprised that Tesla is ending the S and X classes.

Dajo wants to buy a car right now, rather than wait for the next generation, which Is fine. Lucid makes an expensive car that drives quite nicely, is fast, and is luxurious inside. Also a good range.

Lucid being a newer car maker also has a lot of bugs they need to work out. They have buggy software, connectivity failures, and inconsistent hardware quality. Key problems include unreliable Apple CarPlay, malfunctioning soft-close doors, phantom draining of the 12V battery, and failures in driver-assistance systems, leading to frustrations with reliability and service. And service is an issue because like Tesla they are more a tech company than a car company. The bigger problem with Lucid is if it will even be around. Their high cash burn rate with a projected cash runway only until mid-2027 is strkiing. While backed by Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund (who I'm sure meets Dajo's political ideals) is currently providing crucial liquidity, as the company struggles with low sales volume and intense competition. But when you read what Tesla is doing, Lucid is so far behind Lucid won't make it.

As for alternatives in the higher end market that Lucid plays, it depends on what you like. The car ranking companies seem to love the EQs, which I found sluggish on my test drives and handed poorly, but their electronics are the best. BMW and Audi make decent but boring luxury e cars which gets mixed ratings. Good car companies however. The Taycan probably is the best car of the lot with superior handling, pick-up, and everything you expect with Porsche (including a high price tag. They also are not all that great on the electronics or range. And the Tesla S class while it lasts, has the same as always design, has the best acceleration, improving ride quality, good range, seamless electronics. etc. and poor service. Most of this is personal observation as a Taycan and S owner. I found the EQs to be the biggest disappointments personally, and I didn't; buy Lucid, which I liked, because of their bad reliability ratings and the company's financial distress (sorta like buying a DeLorean). if you want a larger car, Rivian owners seem to love their cars/trucks, though the cars also have had some problmes with recalls, mostly related to software glitches.

As for replacing the Prius, there are a lot of good hybrids out there, including the Camry.

Just my two cents on the cars of today. For the cars of tomorrow, listen to what Concord Tom posted.

DiabloWags said:

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Prius drivers are some of the worst on the road..

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thanks for nothing
signed, stuck at home bear

I resent the remark as well

I haven't driven the Macan EV.

But I'm a big fan of the gas-powered Macan.
Especially in S or GTS trim.

2026 Porsche Macan Electric Review, Pricing, and Specs

Glad you enjoyed.
Are you familiar with battery technologies?
NMC is yesterday. Fire risk.
Everything moving to LFP.

LFP is not as energy dense (capacity per kg) as NMC, but has improved and gotten close.

But it's completely unacceptable to have an NMC battery. Read about the PG&E moss landing fire - you want that parked in your garage? No way!
LFP for safety concerns alone.

LFP also has a longer lifespan (more charge cycles), and is cheaper.

All other battery tech is speculative for cars.
Tesla is making the shift, not sure where they are in the transition, but make sure you ask such things!! Other than software, it's the most important part of your car. No?

concordtom said:

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Glad you enjoyed.
Are you familiar with battery technologies?
NMC is yesterday. Fire risk.
Everything moving to LFP.

LFP is not as energy dense (capacity per kg) as NMC, but has improved and gotten close.

But it's completely unacceptable to have an NMC battery. Read about the PG&E moss landing fire - you want that parked in your garage? No way!
LFP for safety concerns alone.

LFP also has a longer lifespan (more charge cycles), and is cheaper.

All other battery tech is speculative for cars.
Tesla is making the shift, not sure where they are in the transition, but make sure you ask such things!! Other than software, it's the most important part of your car. No?

---

clueless (a lot) googled it, which helped some..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery